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  #1  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:37 PM
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Dunnett Dunnett is offline
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Default Fake News (and fake reviews)

Draining the Swamp

Last night I responded to a "question" that was posted here on Drummerworld with regard to the quality of the drums I make.

I searched Dunnett and found few posts by an individual who had several complaints about a Dunnett he claims to have purchased "a few years ago". In some posts he suggested considering another brand....(things that make you go hmmmm...)

Something about the entire thread bothered me and after reading and researching its fairly evident that this is just fake - a total fabrication with obvious malicious intent.

I'm not particularly worried - the reputation of innovation and quality that my company enjoys comes from dedication, consistency and hard work. Its unfortunate that there are people like this who apparently have so much spare time to indulge in this sort of nonsense, either for their own enjoyment or perhaps at the behest of another manufacturer that lacks the courage to do their own dirty work.

It is even more unfortunate that this community gets suckered into fake news and reviews like this and it certainly degrades the quality of content and user experience here and on other quality discussion forums.

I take things like this seriously these days. Recently I filed a defamation lawsuit against a US manufacturer over defamatory statements about me and my company that they posted online. That manufacturer decided to settle. I don't discuss things like that as a rule and I have no need or desire to do a social media "victory lap" to celebrate, but in the context of this post - it is directly relevant.

I would invite any of you who come across pantload posts like the one I am referring to to give me a heads up. I always appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight and I am certain you appreciate fact and truth.

Ronn Dunnett

Last edited by Dunnett; 09-19-2017 at 11:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-20-2017, 05:01 AM
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AzHeat AzHeat is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

I can see why this is upsetting, but so commonplace anymore. It seems everyone has a bone to pick. Back before the Internet and social media, outcasts were outcasts and no one gave them a second thought. Today, a thousand may read and think...idiot, but inevitably one agrees and the idiot is justified. While bad ideas and attitudes lend one to be an outcast, now you're a star.

I'm not sure how many here read the post, but some of us at least never care much for b* fest posts. Once you start getting attacked, it's proof you're doing something right and getting noticed, so congrats! :)
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  #3  
Old 09-20-2017, 05:14 AM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

I think that the members tend to analyze extreme reviews - bad or good - carefully and with a bit of a cynical eye, and that enough other members also lend more realistic perspectives in follow-up posts. If a thread or post is gratuitously, needlessly inflammatory, whether the info is accurate or not, it is often closed or deleted anyway, so that further damage and flaming is halted.

I sort of recall the thread in question, I think I jumped in and added some truth.

Bermuda
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  #4  
Old 09-20-2017, 06:48 AM
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JustJames JustJames is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

FWIW I am exceptionally distrustful of user reviews.

Almost all fall into one of two camps:

I just bought a thing so I will post a glowing review to validate my decision. This things is the best thing ever in the history of things, and if you say otherwise I will fight you!

Or...

I have never owned this thing, but a person I knew once told me a story about a similar thing that was no good, therefore this is the worst thing that ever existed and anybody who says otherwise clearly knows nothing, even if they are willing to fight me.




The user reviews that I tend to trust are those where the owner/reviewer says something along the lines of "I've owned one of these things for years so I thought I should tell you how they are. These are the bits that I like and these are the bits that I don't like."
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  #5  
Old 09-20-2017, 10:43 AM
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Dunnett Dunnett is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Ronn, after reading this, I looked over the thread you mentioned. I see my only (early) response was to encourage the author to contact you directly as a first call rather than complain publicly, & later as a direct response to a mention of Guru, & to state having no issues with the use of your strainers.

To be honest, I usually avoid such threads. Not only because I rarely have anything of value to add, but also being mindful of my position, & how I can be perceived as partisan.

When I do chime in on such threads, it's almost always to encourage communication with the supplier / builder. I did so especially a while back when Kelly was attacked, & worked with her to further identify repeat accusations.

If I see stuff, I'll usually highlight it to the mod's here, & they deal with it. Most of the time, they'll deal with it before I get to see it. There is a strong sense of fair play on this forum.
Yeah, well "Buddy" in question has had plenty of opportunity to contact me...

I did report this BS to the mods and to Bernhard.

I best take my fingers off the keyboard...
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  #6  
Old 09-20-2017, 02:00 PM
DrumWild DrumWild is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I think that the members tend to analyze extreme reviews - bad or good...
For me, an extreme review can be one of two things. It can be a rant that just seems a bit too personal or full of positive/negative things that do not seem to be relevant, OR it can be just how great/bad X product is, and nothing more.

That's why I don't use Yelp. Who IS Fred Jacobs, does he REALLY like Mexican food, and why should I trust him when he says it's "good" or "bad?" I always think of Rodney Dangerfield in "Back to School," when talking about the used books. His son says they've already been highlighted, and he says that's a problem because the last guy might be a moron.

While reviews are pretty much pointless to me, more productive and useful things are what I prefer. The first thing that comes to mind is the discussions about Tune Bot. I read post after post and eventually went and bought one myself, based on the discussions.
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  #7  
Old 09-20-2017, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Describing sound is always difficult, especially when we all have different ears and brains.

The quality thing is always a minefield and something I'm involved with all the time, albeit in software. The main thing is to take emotions out of any report and just report facts.

The only problem I've had over the years has been with dw but that was over ten years ago.

I also have issues with reviews of wine and cars, most of which boils down to he vocabulary used to describe the items
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  #8  
Old 09-20-2017, 03:43 PM
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PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

I hate that this happened.

As someone mentioned, I think it's funny when people write lengthy reviews of ANY instrument he/she has had for about 2 hours. I usually don't take any review seriously unless it's close to objective AND the honeymoon period is over. Play that instrument for a year, travel with it, record with it, THEN come back to me and write a review when it's got a few stories to tell.

I don't take negative reviews seriously unless I see a pattern in the product. For example, I've seen more than one post on more than one forum about a certain well-loved brand name (NOT Dunnett) who push out some of their top-of-the-line drums with some pretty serious quality control issues (primarily bearing edges). When I start to see some consistency in QC, then that makes me raise an eyebrow.

The key is consistent poor quality, not just a one-off.

Ron, you make a stellar product.
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  #9  
Old 09-20-2017, 03:57 PM
Woolwich Woolwich is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Many years ago when I got back into playing there was a line of drums that I was interested in and I used the internet to look for information. I found out that there was a specific problem with them that would have put me off........until I realised first of all that the person doing the criticising was feeding the threads he had created by posting multiple times, and then that the multiple threads on other fiorums had all been created by him! So not so much 20 people with the same problem, but one person with one problem but repeated 20 times. Which isn't a problem, it's a gripe so ultimately I ignored it but it would have been easy to have been taken in.
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  #10  
Old 09-20-2017, 04:20 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumWild View Post
That's why I don't use Yelp. Who IS Fred Jacobs, does he REALLY like Mexican food, and why should I trust him when he says it's "good" or "bad?"
That's the other thing. If the poster is unknown (the complaint is their first post) or is a regular poster known to dislike (or like) just about everything, they really have no influence anyway. It's really a matter of 'consider the source'. In those cases, the more level-headed and respected members usually show up in force and straighten things out.

While deliberately slanderous posts can be frustrating, they rarely have the desired effect, and aren't worth worrying about.

Bermuda
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  #11  
Old 09-20-2017, 04:52 PM
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drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunnett View Post
I would invite any of you who come across pantload posts like the one I am referring to to give me a heads up. I always appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight and I am certain you appreciate fact and truth.
Will do. It's really amazing what lengths some people will go to further their agenda.
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2017, 05:24 PM
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Bernhard Bernhard is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

First: Ronn Dunnett makes quality first class drums - for uahhhh many many many many years....

Second: yes, Forums can't be taken too seriously

BUT

here at Drummerworld we try our best to keep it trustworthy, real, professional and we don't tolerate badmouthing whenever we stumble on it and knowing something isn't correct - as in this case concerning renowned friends.

We delete the whole thread - don't discuss it (sorry for the eventual good posts)
and delete eventually the user in question (no banning).

But anyway: Life is beautiful

Bernhard
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  #13  
Old 09-20-2017, 05:28 PM
Blisco Blisco is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
That's the other thing. If the poster is unknown (the complaint is their first post) or is a regular poster known to dislike (or like) just about everything, they really have no influence anyway. It's really a matter of 'consider the source'. In those cases, the more level-headed and respected members usually show up in force and straighten things out.

While deliberately slanderous posts can be frustrating, they rarely have the desired effect, and aren't worth worrying about.

Bermuda
Post Count definitely affects how I would take a review. If it's from a long-term member, one could easily assume that person knows that which he/she speaks.

I'm often prompted to make reviews for my purchases but I usually don't. Ebay wants me to rate my new Trick Shaft. I can tell it's great (and used reviews to seal the deal) but I'm still hesitant until I've had some time to experiment. Mine would certainly be glowing. And as a member for 13+ years at 100% feedback, my opinion should count.
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  #14  
Old 09-20-2017, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
FWIW I am exceptionally distrustful of user reviews.
Almost all fall into one of two camps:
I just bought a thing so I will post a glowing review to validate my decision. This things is the best thing ever in the history of things, and if you say otherwise I will fight you!
Or...
I have never owned this thing, but a person I knew once told me a story about a similar thing that was no good, therefore this is the worst thing that ever existed and anybody who says otherwise clearly knows nothing, even if they are willing to fight me.
Exactly! Anybody with half a brain should be able to make a sound judgment of a review. After all, its the internet.
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2017, 05:55 PM
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GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Besides this forum I also do reviews and answer questions about products I have bought and used for Home Depot. I do not pretend to be a professional in any regard but give honest, intelligent reviews on tools or products I have used. People reading this reviews don't know me so taking me with a grain of salt is expected and OK. I get no remuneration for these reviews and only hope that my experience will help someone else down the road. Reviews that aren't justified or deemed by HD to be bashing alone are not published.
If you start a thread solely to bash someone or a product, the thread and you will not be around long. Honesty is the best avenue to relate your experience without bashing the person involved. Have fun and go play your drums.....
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  #16  
Old 09-20-2017, 06:30 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

For me...

The bottom line with drums is that it's hard to make a "bad" drum.

An example of a bad drum would be the Ludwig CP Venus, where you literally cannot turn the snare wires off. It's literally broken by design. I appreciate that victims posted their experience here, because it's a nice looking drum, and is dirt cheap. I almost picked one up as an impulse buy. Glad I didn't.

I also enjoy reading others reaction to gear that I own. It lets me know whether I'm being unreasonable or overly critical of my gear. For example, my Gibraltar 9600 hardware is absolutely fine, but I had to spend an entire 6h evening peeling off several dozen stickers and using goo-gone.
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  #17  
Old 09-20-2017, 06:35 PM
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IDDrummer IDDrummer is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

I remember reading that thread and thinking, that's somebody with a beef, not an issue with a product. I didn't think a thing of it, nor did I bother to comment, I don't believe.

I think most of us are able to tell when something like this is just B.S.
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  #18  
Old 09-21-2017, 03:15 AM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

I usually only use reviews for commodity items, with dozens of reviews. Amazon has a particularly good system where the reviews themselves can be rated.

I think the number of people pushing items/businesses virally in informal situations such as blogs is a real shame, that includes you at the moment and what's his id. Its like totally a buzz kill, no one cares about the equipment already, the only people commenting about the drums are other drum manufacturers and salesmen DUH! If it weren't for meat puppets, sock puppets and shills, there would be no drummerworld.
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  #19  
Old 09-21-2017, 09:51 AM
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paradiddle pete paradiddle pete is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Been phishing lately?
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  #20  
Old 09-21-2017, 04:52 PM
LeftySlammer92 LeftySlammer92 is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

If someone doesn't think that Ronn Dunnett makes world class instruments, then Hell has truly frozen over.

I myself have only played and seen in-person one Dunnett drum, a titanium snare drum I believe it was, and it was a well crafted instrument with a very innovative and unique touch.

Unless you're the guy from Vaughancraft (John Rose I believe) who was in fact selling poorly made shells with cracks and warped bearing edges and whatnot, then you probably make a quality drum. Or First Act from Walmart I guess.

My point is whether or not it's your personal taste, you can still tell quality from a company.
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  #21  
Old 09-21-2017, 10:12 PM
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Dunnett Dunnett is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
I hate that this happened.

As someone mentioned, I think it's funny when people write lengthy reviews of ANY instrument he/she has had for about 2 hours. I usually don't take any review seriously unless it's close to objective AND the honeymoon period is over. Play that instrument for a year, travel with it, record with it, THEN come back to me and write a review when it's got a few stories to tell.

I don't take negative reviews seriously unless I see a pattern in the product. For example, I've seen more than one post on more than one forum about a certain well-loved brand name (NOT Dunnett) who push out some of their top-of-the-line drums with some pretty serious quality control issues (primarily bearing edges). When I start to see some consistency in QC, then that makes me raise an eyebrow.

The key is consistent poor quality, not just a one-off.

Ron, you make a stellar product.
What do we call it when someone posts a review of a product they say the own, but actually do not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6WT...ature=youtu.be
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  #22  
Old 09-21-2017, 10:13 PM
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Dunnett Dunnett is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
First: Ronn Dunnett makes quality first class drums - for uahhhh many many many many years....

Second: yes, Forums can't be taken too seriously

BUT

here at Drummerworld we try our best to keep it trustworthy, real, professional and we don't tolerate badmouthing whenever we stumble on it and knowing something isn't correct - as in this case concerning renowned friends.

We delete the whole thread - don't discuss it (sorry for the eventual good posts)
and delete eventually the user in question (no banning).

But anyway: Life is beautiful

Bernhard

Love to you my friend. Genuine Drummerworld readers are blessed to have this man.
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  #23  
Old 09-21-2017, 10:16 PM
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Dunnett Dunnett is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
I remember reading that thread and thinking, that's somebody with a beef, not an issue with a product. I didn't think a thing of it, nor did I bother to comment, I don't believe.

I think most of us are able to tell when something like this is just B.S.
I know the vast majority of regular readers understand this and feel like this.

Unfortunately, there are those who are new and just learning and they deserve to be given reliable intel - that is why they come to Drummerworld - to get solid, real information about drums and drumming.
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  #24  
Old 09-22-2017, 08:36 AM
12x7 12x7 is offline
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Default Re: Fake News (and fake reviews)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
For me...

The bottom line with drums is that it's hard to make a "bad" drum.
It's very easy to make a bad drum. Combining bad manufacturing techniques, bad customer service, general idiocy, a shared warehouse(vitamins, clocks, toys etc...) with an accountant as the drum guy, and bad english will certainly make bad drums.

I had an almost two year problem with a drum company from the eastern hemisphere that I was planning on dealing from the internet, and they would drop ship to customers of mine from the warehouse. Ordered 8 piece doublebass kit for me!!! Wholesale is a good thing!!!! Or is it???

Noticed plies on 8 inch tom were separating. Returned it at the NAMM show I just happened to be attending at the time, helping them at their booth cause I spoke english. They were thinking that perhaps i did not mount it properly on the stand!? They sent a replacement. Got it! WRONG COLOR! (old model) Returned it. Got new 8 inch tom. Seemed ok.

Then I noticed that some other toms' plies were separating. Return three more toms. Got them back with epoxy stuck in the separating plies.

Wanted to pull out and get my money back. They said we will send you a whole new doublebass kit with hardware. Waited for the next boat. Got it, color was not exactly like what I ordered, but what the hell.

Oh, and they forgot to send the other bass drum. Oh, and the 14 floor tom was packaged with a tom stand ON the wood bearing edge. Nice 1/4 gouge on it. Sent it back.

Then FINALLY i got the other bass drum and an undamaged floor tom. Great condition.

WRONG COLOR!!!!!

Keep in mind this was spread out almost two years, a year an a half at least.
(Also took them 8 months to send a guy a new lug that broke on his snare...Had to wait for the boat. hello? airmail? Can't you unscrew one from a snare in stock? Is there another snare in stock? Their boat shipments went from twice to once a year)

They pulled out of the USA a little while later.
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