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  #1  
Old 06-21-2017, 09:44 PM
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Default Yet another "behind the beat" question...

Ok, so I was recently playing with a bass player friend of mine at a blues jam here in KC and she was trying to instruct me in the concept of playing behind the beat, for HER point of view as the bass player, basically schooling me on what she wanted, and I thought I'd run this by everyone here to see what you said.

We were playing a slow blues in 12/8, and told me on the 4 she wanted it a little behind. I futzed around until what I ended up doing is playing the 4th count like a flam, with the grace note perfectly with the beat on the hi-hat but the stroke with my left hand on the snare drum just a hair after. She indicated that's what she was looking for, so I've been trying to keep that in mind at subsequent jams as well as my own band's rehearsal/gigs.

How does that square with everybody's experience/concept of "behind the beat" playing here? Am I way off base to visualize it as just playing flams between hats and snare?

Looking forward to feedback, thanks!
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

The slower the blues number, the easier it is to get lulled into this habit. Just be sure it doesn't happen for everything you play.
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

I just play normally, but wait a few extra microseconds to place each 2 and 4 on the snare. The idea obviously is playing the note slightly late, but never on the next beat, more like you're just displacing the snare notes by a 32nd or something like that. Once you hit a 16th of the beat I feel that's too late in most cases.
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

Confused. She told you she wanted you "behind the beat ....but only on 4"? That would mean all others on the beat.
In my unschooled way, behind the beat is a 'feel'. Not consciously counting to be off of a beat, just laying back. Seems strange to specify ONE beat to play behind on. To my mind drummer would/could play behind the beat (slightly late or laid back 'feel') through a whole piece, not just on the 4.
What do I know the experts will weigh in soon.
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

Louis,

Yeah I'm scratching my head a bit on that one too, but swear that's what she told me she wanted and was like "Yes! That's it!" When I did it.
Definitely going to work on playing all the beats behind as well, but she explained that doing it on the 4th gave it some kind of "slinky sexiness" that she liked.
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by MrTheOne View Post
Louis,

.....she explained doing it on the 4th gave it some kind of "slinky sexiness" that she liked.
Sounds like success..... not gonna touch that one ;)
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

This sounds like this exchange I had this past weekend:

guy: You know when you hit that reggae right, they call it the "bubble"

me: cool

guy: Yeah, its called the "bubble"

me: OK

guy: It's the "bubble"

me: I heard you the first time


It makes me laugh ;)
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by MrTheOne View Post
Louis,

Yeah I'm scratching my head a bit on that one too, but swear that's what she told me she wanted and was like "Yes! That's it!" When I did it.
Definitely going to work on playing all the beats behind as well, but she explained that doing it on the 4th gave it some kind of "slinky sexiness" that she liked.
Out of interest, what song was it (cover or original?) and approximately what tempo?
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Old 06-22-2017, 01:32 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
This sounds like this exchange I had this past weekend:

guy: You know when you hit that reggae right, they call it the "bubble"

me: cool

guy: Yeah, its called the "bubble"

me: OK

guy: It's the "bubble"

me: I heard you the first time


It makes me laugh ;)

Ha, that guy's off. Bubble is a dance in Jamaica. "She's Bubbling", or "She jus a Bubble" would be an example of how that term is used. No one calls anything "the Bubble" in Jamaica.
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

Merlin5

It was "Tennessee Whiskey", I think we were at about 60 bpm.
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Old 06-22-2017, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

After much past debate here about behind the beat, where I totally did not understand the concept, I finally settled on what you did, flam the snare slightly. I do this in some songs like Santana's "Smooth". It fattens the backbeat, and I'm playing rimclick. When the other 3 limbs are playing the "right" time, the slightly flammed snare/rimclick does something that wasn't there before.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
After much past debate here about behind the beat, where I totally did not understand the concept, I finally settled on what you did, flam the snare slightly. I do this in some songs like Santana's "Smooth". It fattens the backbeat, and I'm playing rimclick. When the other 3 limbs are playing the "right" time, the slightly flammed snare/rimclick does something that wasn't there before.
Yeah, exactly. Flam with grace note on hats and primary stroke on snare. Like I said, not sure if what I did was "correct", but it's what the bass player wanted and approved of me doing. So, win?
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by Ron_M View Post
Ha, that guy's off. Bubble is a dance in Jamaica. "She's Bubbling", or "She jus a Bubble" would be an example of how that term is used. No one calls anything "the Bubble" in Jamaica.
Cool. I had this exchange and I was wondering if the guy was on drugs. He might've been anyway, but I had never heard the term used, nor did I care ;)
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Old 06-22-2017, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by MrTheOne View Post
Merlin5

It was "Tennessee Whiskey", I think we were at about 60 bpm.
Yeah, You did good. Hi Hat on 4 and the snare slightly after (flam). That is the easy way to play "behind the beat". That way you won't cause the band to drag.
I'll bet it does sound good on Tennessee Whiskey. I count that song as a 6/8 song with the back beat on 4.

.
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

The flam thing could work, but it would take a bit of reprogramming on my part if I were to attempt to go about it that way. It would take me a while to get the tap on the beat and the accent behind the beat instead of playing the accent on the beat with the tap slightly preceding it like a flam is normally played. This is something I just do by feel with both the snare and the hi hat hit happening just slightly behind the beat. Unless a groove really needs to pop, I tend to play most things behind the beat. That's just how my playing evolved over the years- I do it without trying to.
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  #16  
Old 06-22-2017, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTheOne View Post
Merlin5

It was "Tennessee Whiskey", I think we were at about 60 bpm.
Ah cool. I've never heard the song before but I had a listen on youtube and it's by someone called Chris Stapleton with original tempo about 48bpm, so I'm guessing you guys do a brighter version of it.
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Old 06-22-2017, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTheOne View Post
Ok, so I was recently playing with a bass player friend of mine at a blues jam here in KC and she was trying to instruct me in the concept of playing behind the beat, for HER point of view as the bass player, basically schooling me on what she wanted, and I thought I'd run this by everyone here to see what you said.

We were playing a slow blues in 12/8, and told me on the 4 she wanted it a little behind. I futzed around until what I ended up doing is playing the 4th count like a flam, with the grace note perfectly with the beat on the hi-hat but the stroke with my left hand on the snare drum just a hair after. She indicated that's what she was looking for, so I've been trying to keep that in mind at subsequent jams as well as my own band's rehearsal/gigs.

How does that square with everybody's experience/concept of "behind the beat" playing here? Am I way off base to visualize it as just playing flams between hats and snare?

Looking forward to feedback, thanks!




Rule # 1. Women are smarter than men.

2. Women may not always be right, but they're never wrong.

3. Do not challenge, question, critique a/your women bass player.
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  #18  
Old 06-22-2017, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Rule # 1. Women are smarter than men.

2. Women may not always be right, but they're never wrong.

3. Do not challenge, question, critique a/your women bass player.
Those are lessons I'm continuously reminded of, since it's the ladies who basically own the blues scene here in KC. I consider myself schooled.
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  #19  
Old 06-23-2017, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by Merlin5 View Post
Ah cool. I've never heard the song before but I had a listen on youtube and it's by someone called Chris Stapleton with original tempo about 48bpm, so I'm guessing you guys do a brighter version of it.
I listened to this tune and all I hear is a big fat low-tuned snare with very loose wires on the 4.
So .... is that behind the beat? The whole tune is just a laid back feel.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by MrTheOne View Post
Those are lessons I'm continuously reminded of, since it's the ladies who basically own the blues scene here in KC. I consider myself schooled.
This 👉 2. :Women may not always be right, but they're never wrong."

Is funny, but oh so true! 😄😄😄
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Old 06-23-2017, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by MrTheOne View Post
Those are lessons I'm continuously reminded of, since it's the ladies who basically own the blues scene here in KC. I consider myself schooled.
Funny, it's the polar opposite here in PA. The blues scene is predominantly owned by the guys here on the northern East Coast. My guess is 8 out of 10 women near me aren't interested in blues. But the ones that do like blues are hooked, like me.

Oh we definitely have really fantastic female led blues bands, and very accomplished female side players, but they are far overshadowed in numbers by guy led blues bands and guy side players. So what you wrote, I never would have guessed based on my experiences here.
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Funny, it's the polar opposite here in PA. The blues scene is predominantly owned by the guys here on the northern East Coast. My guess is 8 out of 10 women near me aren't interested in blues. But the ones that do like blues are hooked, like me.

Oh we definitely have really fantastic female led blues bands, and very accomplished female side players, but they are far overshadowed in numbers by guy led blues bands and guy side players. So what you wrote, I never would have guessed based on my experiences here.
Haha, right on. Yeah, I don't know about any national or really even regional trends. I guess it just depends, but from my POV as both and noob player, the scene here in KC is dominated by women at the moment.

If you'd be interested, check out Danielle Nicole Band, Samantha Fish, her sister Amanda Fish, Katy Guillen and The Girls. Those are some prominent artists from hereabouts. I've seen all of the ladies live. Fantastic musicians!
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTheOne View Post
Yeah, exactly. Flam with grace note on hats and primary stroke on snare. Like I said, not sure if what I did was "correct", but it's what the bass player wanted and approved of me doing. So, win?
I do this flam style as well for getting slightly behind the beat. As mentioned, it also really fattens up the beat. It may not be a technique, but I think it sounds good so I use it.
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  #24  
Old 06-25-2017, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Yet another "behind the beat" question...

We used to practice something like that in jazz band. It's not a precise behind the beat, but more like everyone is randomly off the four, then back on for the one. This might be the KC sound, Count Basie et al. It can be ahead or behind, but not on the four, and not the same twice, and different for each player.
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