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  #41  
Old 06-14-2017, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Woolwich View Post
It was an eye opening moment and I've worked on the transition back to the hats to avoid this, in the process stopping myself hitting a sloshy hat on the one as that is a similiar sort of camouflage.
It depends on the music but many drummers mess with the first bar after a fill. It sounds less robotic than always exactly changing feel on the one, which can be very pat if done every time - robotic and predictable.

Other great garage cliches : booogidy booogidy booogidy down the toms and playing a fill every fourth bar.
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  #42  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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So are you all talking about original music? If you are playing covers don't you want to play primarily what the original drummer played?
I would primarily say "No'. Unless you're doing stuff like Bermuda does, crash's aren't in the general consciousness and 'if' then usually just as well known accents.


You could play a really popular song in two- three versions, one with the crashes just like the original recording, and the others with crashes not in the original recoding places, most people would have a difficult time knowing which one was the correct original crash placement version.

Recorded songs if crash heavy are most always mixed with the cymbals down, lower in volume, some recorded crashes are mixed so low they're just implied. To play a crash heavy song well live, you need to be good with dynamics and hope your cymbals sound a little like the originals.

Cymbals are generally obnoxious live, especially in small venue situations. Unless the drummer is really conscious, cymbals can ruin a bands sound pretty easily, a lot quicker than drums, you can't tune cymbals. You can't hide bad sounding cymbals at a gig, drums are more forgiving. Crappy sounding cymbals at a gig can literally give you a headache, weather you're playing, or in the audience listening, they can sour the night.
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  #43  
Old 06-15-2017, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Garage drumming 101

You've played the obligatory fill down the toms and your RH is now a long way from the hats, where it needs to be for the next bar. A time honoured fudge is to hit a crash near the floor tom on the one and the wash covers the crappy recovery getting back to the hats.
I know right? The crash is done for drummer ease a lot of times. It's not that hard of an adjustment to not crash and go right into the beat. Instead of trying to get the furthest hand away from the hi hat to get to the hh on beat one, sometimes I will use a double with my furthest hand at the very end of the fill so I can get my weak hand to the hi hat for beat one with ease. Then I finish the beat with my right hand on the hh.
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  #44  
Old 06-15-2017, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by drummer-russ View Post
So are you all talking about original music? If you are playing covers don't you want to play primarily what the original drummer played?
I don't give a crap about playing what the other drummer played. Save for signature parts, only a very tiny percentage of people will know what the original drum part is supposed to be. Drummers likely. I play it as if I am the original drummer. Sometimes I like my choices better. Other times, the original part sounds best to me. Either way, I can't help injecting the song with my own fingerprint. It's kind of unavoidable. Also, whatever non original part I do, it always has to fit in with the original vibe of the song. That's a requirement for me.

I just want to go on record stating that crashes NOT played at full volume sound much better to me than crashes played at full cymbal volume...I always thought of crashes as women and I feel they sound their best when they are played respectfully, not brutish. To my ear they sound best at like 40 to 70% volume. Going from 0 to 100 in a split second always repulsed me. I'm referring to non metal music mainly.
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  #45  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

I keep on going and crash on the 2 with the snare :)
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  #46  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Agreed Larry,

Some original parts are just way too cool to step on. Some embellishments also screw up the song, but there are times where an extra accent here or there not only helps the band with feel, but adds something to the song.

Original covers always cone under scrutiny, because there's so little variation. Someone just may do a remake at some point, but essentially one version. One of the things I like about playing at church, is there is so much less of the original part to adhere too. While there are original songs produced regularly, it usually isn't long, before other artists do their renditions, so when we change them too, no one thinks, gee...those guys sure screwed up that (band name) song. It was nothing like the original.

A ton of the criticism comes from what people are used to hearing, so you're expected to play it exactly so. How dare Alien Ant Farm redo Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal. They certainly did a great job with it, but the average Joe would get boo'd of the stage....Unless you're Weird Al!
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  #47  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Who crashes on beat 1 any more anyway? That is so cliche.
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  #48  
Old 06-15-2017, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Well I continue to try to play the drum part as it was recorded. Partly because that is what people expect and even if they don't know the part exactly, one of the things I see a lot is audience members crashing the air with me. I also figure the original artist in most cases has a better idea of what the song is trying to accomplish.
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  #49  
Old 06-15-2017, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I don't give a crap about playing what the other drummer played. Save for signature parts, only a very tiny percentage of people will know what the original drum part is supposed to be. Drummers likely. I play it as if I am the original drummer. Sometimes I like my choices better. Other times, the original part sounds best to me. Either way, I can't help injecting the song with my own fingerprint. It's kind of unavoidable. Also, whatever non original part I do, it always has to fit in with the original vibe of the song. That's a requirement for me.
I really appreciate this post! From the time I first started playing, this has been my philosophy. I am an "interpreter" of the song, and what I bring is unique-but fitting for the piece. Thankfully I have a day job, and an original music project. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
Agreed Larry,

One of the things I like about playing at church, is there is so much less of the original part to adhere too. While there are original songs produced regularly, it usually isn't long, before other artists do their renditions, so when we change them too, no one thinks, gee...those guys sure screwed up that (band name) song. It was nothing like the original.
This has been my experience as well. Every praise team I have been on does a "version" of the song. We make it fit to our team's strengths and style. BUT-the melody of the lyrics remains the same, unless it is a "special".
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  #50  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

this is why I like having both 16" and 18" crashes in my kit, the 16"s don't overpower the vocals, but give me the accent that I'm looking for. The 18"s are much louder and make more emphasis.

That, and I'm still afflicted with the aforementioned garage drummer syndrome and associated traits, heh heh.

Lot's of food for thought in this thread for me. It's why I love this forum, making me think and hopefully getting better.
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  #51  
Old 06-21-2017, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

In blues, after a guitar solo that leads into a vocal, instead of crashing on the one at the conclusion of the solo, many times I will do a single hit, no flam, on the snare, on beat 1. I usually do a drag before I nail the 1 though, it sets it up better. Flams are OK but I think it's most effective with a drag and a slightly accented (not too hard) snare hit. It's almost alarming how much that changes the feel, using the snare rather than the cymbal. It kind of forces people to clap for the solo (or are they clapping for me when I nail the 1? No, I'm pretty sure it's the solo. But nailing the one makes people appreciate the solo more.)

If I crashed a cymbal on beat 1 at the start of the vocal, I can almost guarantee that no one will clap for the solo...but if I nail it home with a drag and then a snare hit on beat 1 at the start of the vocal, they almost always clap for the preceding solo. It's like nailing beat 1 with a lone snare hit...is the audiences cue to clap. Works great. And really, I didn't change any notes. I'm still accenting on beat one. All I did was choose the snare instead of a cymbal. (OK I added a drag too) But wow what a difference in feel. Night and day. Exciting vs same old same old. Of course I only use that once at the most in the same song. And not every song either. I reserve that high point for a truly deserving time.
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  #52  
Old 06-21-2017, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Ok, I'm a little confused here. I'm pretty sure I don't crash on the 1. For instance I use the crash cymbal very little in blues songs.

Could you guys and gals give me an example of crashing on the 1?
Please post a song from YouTube where the drummer is crashing on the 1 after a fill.


.
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  #53  
Old 06-21-2017, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
...but if I nail it home with a drag and then a snare hit on beat 1 at the start of the vocal, they almost always clap for the preceding solo. It's like nailing beat 1 with a lone snare hit...is the audiences cue to clap. Works great.
A crescendoed buzz roll leading up to snare on 1 is another nice way to do it. It's a dramatic move that makes the transition absolutely clear.

Back to the crash on one: I reckon a nuance with timing it shapes the feel. Is it me or did Bonham often hesitate a bit with crashes on one?
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  #54  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by spleeeeen View Post
A crescendoed buzz roll leading up to snare on 1 is another nice way to do it. It's a dramatic move that makes the transition absolutely clear?
That does sound tasty.
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  #55  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
In blues, after a guitar solo that leads into a vocal, instead of crashing on the one at the conclusion of the solo, many times I will do a single hit, no flam, on the snare, on beat 1. I usually do a drag before I nail the 1 though, it sets it up better. Flams are OK but I think it's most effective with a drag and a slightly accented (not too hard) snare hit. It's almost alarming how much that changes the feel, using the snare rather than the cymbal. It kind of forces people to clap for the solo (or are they clapping for me when I nail the 1? No, I'm pretty sure it's the solo. But nailing the one makes people appreciate the solo more.)

If I crashed a cymbal on beat 1 at the start of the vocal, I can almost guarantee that no one will clap for the solo...but if I nail it home with a drag and then a snare hit on beat 1 at the start of the vocal, they almost always clap for the preceding solo. It's like nailing beat 1 with a lone snare hit...is the audiences cue to clap. Works great. And really, I didn't change any notes. I'm still accenting on beat one. All I did was choose the snare instead of a cymbal. (OK I added a drag too) But wow what a difference in feel. Night and day. Exciting vs same old same old. Of course I only use that once at the most in the same song. And not every song either. I reserve that high point for a truly deserving time.
I've been doing this more and more lately as well. Just for variety's sake mostly, but I think you're right, changing typical sound the band expects on the 1 to something else completely has some clear effects. I like how it alters things.
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  #56  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

It's either a scoobidy bop or a one 🐐 note on the cowbell. I mean ghost note
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  #57  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
Ok, I'm a little confused here. I'm pretty sure I don't crash on the 1. For instance I use the crash cymbal very little in blues songs.

Could you guys and gals give me an example of crashing on the 1?
Please post a song from YouTube where the drummer is crashing on the 1 after a fill.


.
Just think of "Born To Be Wild" Almost every crash is on the 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbATaj7Il8
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  #58  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Just think of "Born To Be Wild" Almost every crash is on the 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbATaj7Il8
OK yeah, I get it. Thanks.
Yes I guess I do crash on the 1 on occasion when I'm playing the old rock songs. All that crashing on the 1 is crazy!

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  #59  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
OK yeah, I get it. Thanks.
Yes I guess I do crash on the 1 on occasion when I'm playing the old rock songs. All that crashing on the 1 is crazy!

.
Mind numbing is more like it. :(
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