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  #1  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:53 AM
KastroMelo54 KastroMelo54 is offline
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Default New to the forum, new kit, new advice

Hello fellow drummers, I am new to this forum and this is my first post! Nonetheless but I've done my investigation first. Moreover, being a modestly intermediate drummer I do have some questions mainly from your own experience.
I will buy a new kit (intermediate) and from what I've seen the Yamaha's Stage Custom seem the "best option" for around 700. However I have some issues I would like to address.
Firstly I play in some crappy and small places, thus making the sound not isolated at all (and moving the drums in and out can be quite troublesome since I have 12/14/16/22). Do you think "downgrading" to a 10/12/14/20 could perhaps help to fix these problems or do you think it will basically have the same issues Furthermore are these lower sizes a big drag-down, musically (since I play mainly rock and pop)?
In terms of heads, from what I have seen, double ply batter seems the way to go. Being a birch kit which do you think is better Coated Emp(or G2), Clear Emp (or G2), or Pinstripes (or EC2)? Note that I like a controlled yet alive sound (I've never tried coated on toms).
Thank you for seeing this post and if you have any experience (positive or negative) with this kit please share!
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2017, 07:42 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: New to the forum, new kit, new advice

Welcome to the forum! I'll bite first.

Personally, I don't think downsizing the drums helps any. It's the amount of drums you carry that you have to decide is good for you or not. I have a standard 6-piece kit (12/13/16/18/22 with 6.5 snare) and it is more of an adventure to carry around when compared to my 4-piece kit on steroids (14/18/26 with 6.5 snare).

What makes the schlepping a lot easier is your hardware. I use lightweight, flat-based hardware when I can, but I also own super heavy-duty stuff too, so if I really want to work out, I'll carry the 6-piece and all my heavy hardware. But the sound and vibe I get when using the 4-piece and light hardware is undeniable. It all depends on the music you're playing. I could easily get away with not using a rack tom and just using bass/snare/floor tom. Hell, I've even started doing gigs with just one 22" light ride, and 17" hi-hats. If you're a good player, you should be able to make do with whatever you have - but that only comes with experience.

I'm really not sure if having smaller drums is the way to go. It is easier to take physically bigger drums and tone them down to sound smaller. It is impossible to make small drums sound big, unless you're miking them up!
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:25 AM
Woolwich Woolwich is offline
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Default Re: New to the forum, new kit, new advice

I agree with the lightweight hardware solution, I'm using the DW Ultralight range and it's excellent, there are also many other options that are still lightweight but without going the whole way as this range of flat based stands do, I've never used the Yamaha 700 range but they seem to be the default option betweempn lightweight and sturdiness.
I see the argument of drum sizes ( in terms of number of drums and the sizes of those drums ) from both sides. What you MUST NOT do in my opinion is make a compromise that costs you hundred of Euros and you end up not happy with. How much is saving one or two more trips back to the car at load in/out or making the trips easier worth to you if you're an absolute dyed in the wool big drum kit man? From my viewpoint having made the switch I appreciate being able to shift everything to and fro in three fairly easy journeys, but that's me and we're all different. Also my perception is that I've found it easier setting up and placing my drums, the couple of inches difference between my bass drum and floor tom from the "standard" 22" and 16" seem to translate to a lot more ease than I would have thought .
In terms of tuning, here's a video of my Gretsch Catalina Club 12", 14", 20" X 14" with iirc a 12" Black Panther snare drum. It was my "normal" tuning using coated pinstripes but as we were close mic'd I put Aquarian Studio Rings on the toms to give them a bit more thud, the bass drum head is an Evans Emad, the recording was taken from a condenser mic set up in front of the band so while the drum sound is coming through the PA there's little or nothing going on in terms of post production. From the night I do remember the soundman smiling as he got my drum sound quickly with no messing about.

https://youtu.be/2v8_6HucBj8
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2017, 04:31 PM
KastroMelo54 KastroMelo54 is offline
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Default Re: New to the forum, new kit, new advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolwich View Post
I agree with the lightweight hardware solution, I'm using the DW Ultralight range and it's excellent, there are also many other options that are still lightweight but without going the whole way as this range of flat based stands do, I've never used the Yamaha 700 range but they seem to be the default option betweempn lightweight and sturdiness.
I see the argument of drum sizes ( in terms of number of drums and the sizes of those drums ) from both sides. What you MUST NOT do in my opinion is make a compromise that costs you hundred of Euros and you end up not happy with. How much is saving one or two more trips back to the car at load in/out or making the trips easier worth to you if you're an absolute dyed in the wool big drum kit man? From my viewpoint having made the switch I appreciate being able to shift everything to and fro in three fairly easy journeys, but that's me and we're all different. Also my perception is that I've found it easier setting up and placing my drums, the couple of inches difference between my bass drum and floor tom from the "standard" 22" and 16" seem to translate to a lot more ease than I would have thought .
In terms of tuning, here's a video of my Gretsch Catalina Club 12", 14", 20" X 14" with iirc a 12" Black Panther snare drum. It was my "normal" tuning using coated pinstripes but as we were close mic'd I put Aquarian Studio Rings on the toms to give them a bit more thud, the bass drum head is an Evans Emad, the recording was taken from a condenser mic set up in front of the band so while the drum sound is coming through the PA there's little or nothing going on in terms of post production. From the night I do remember the soundman smiling as he got my drum sound quickly with no messing about.

https://youtu.be/2v8_6HucBj8
Thank for your reply your kit sounds very good! Would you say that the "studio" size is more "versatile" than standard sizes? And in order to make it sound "bigger" would you advise less dampened heads?
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2017, 09:26 PM
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force3005 force3005 is offline
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Default Re: New to the forum, new kit, new advice

Hi KastroMelo54 and welcome DW. To go down to the sizes you are asking about there is not much room difference you will pick up even with flat base stands. You could save some space by doing away with one mounted tom and have your ride in the area where the vacated tom was. I get by with 10T, 14FT, 20B, HH, 2C and ride on both sets most of the time. The only exception most of the time is an outdoor gig. Then I'll use my 12T or use both. On cymbal stands go with IMO two mini boom and one full boom for your ride if you need to. Otherwise if you can get your cymbals in positions that don't require booms then 90s are better. In most cases the mini boom do make nice 90s also. Bottom line get what makes you feel comfortable behind the kit.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:04 AM
eamesuser eamesuser is offline
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Default Re: New to the forum, new kit, new advice

All depends on your needs,but for me I have found that I like 3 toms when playing rock/classic rock,but when playing blues, roots rock, and oldies a 4 piece
works fine for me. I have been playing a 4 up 4 down set up so long that I can do the classic rock fine on it,but do prefer the xtra tom.

I am not a big person,5'9",and I have found that for my playing style and the smaller stages I play on that using a traditional depth "jazz" kit,20 bd 12 mt 14 ft along with one flat base stand and 2 lighter tri pod cymbal stands as opposed to my 22 13 16 makes a big difference in the the footprint on stage,that two less inches on the ft and BD plus only using one mounted tom
seems to make it easier and more comfortable for me and the rest of the band.
With a decent sound person,the smaller sizes makes no difference to me when
miced up,and in some rooms with no sound man I just put a mic in the kick,and the bleed usually gets the rest of the kits sound to the back of the room so the drums don't sound totally boxed in.

As far as heads go,in my experience the double ply heads do decrease volume and cut in live un miced situations,how much depends on a drum by drum/kit basis,some kits I have owned lost a lot of volume with the double ply heads,others not so much.But as long as the band plays at a med volume or above, un miced I prefer single ply heads.I would suggest you have a drummer buddy play you kit live with your band so you can hear how your kit sounds to the audience when un miced.
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2017, 01:19 AM
KastroMelo54 KastroMelo54 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2017
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Posts: 14
Default Re: New to the forum, new kit, new advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by force3005 View Post
Hi KastroMelo54 and welcome DW. To go down to the sizes you are asking about there is not much room difference you will pick up even with flat base stands. You could save some space by doing away with one mounted tom and have your ride in the area where the vacated tom was. I get by with 10T, 14FT, 20B, HH, 2C and ride on both sets most of the time. The only exception most of the time is an outdoor gig. Then I'll use my 12T or use both. On cymbal stands go with IMO two mini boom and one full boom for your ride if you need to. Otherwise if you can get your cymbals in positions that don't require booms then 90s are better. In most cases the mini boom do make nice 90s also. Bottom line get what makes you feel comfortable behind the kit.
Thanks for the advice but I've tried that configuration, and while I don't dislike it, I prefer having 2 stand toms, don't ask me why. I think I will let my ears be the judge in this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eamesuser View Post
All depends on your needs,but for me I have found that I like 3 toms when playing rock/classic rock,but when playing blues, roots rock, and oldies a 4 piece
works fine for me. I have been playing a 4 up 4 down set up so long that I can do the classic rock fine on it,but do prefer the xtra tom.

I am not a big person,5'9",and I have found that for my playing style and the smaller stages I play on that using a traditional depth "jazz" kit,20 bd 12 mt 14 ft along with one flat base stand and 2 lighter tri pod cymbal stands as opposed to my 22 13 16 makes a big difference in the the footprint on stage,that two less inches on the ft and BD plus only using one mounted tom
seems to make it easier and more comfortable for me and the rest of the band.
With a decent sound person,the smaller sizes makes no difference to me when
miced up,and in some rooms with no sound man I just put a mic in the kick,and the bleed usually gets the rest of the kits sound to the back of the room so the drums don't sound totally boxed in.

As far as heads go,in my experience the double ply heads do decrease volume and cut in live un miced situations,how much depends on a drum by drum/kit basis,some kits I have owned lost a lot of volume with the double ply heads,others not so much.But as long as the band plays at a med volume or above, un miced I prefer single ply heads.I would suggest you have a drummer buddy play you kit live with your band so you can hear how your kit sounds to the audience when un miced.
Thanks man! Yes my wrists, back and ears will be my best friends in helping deciding the sizes, but still would you say that clear vs coated is a big difference with birch ?
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2017, 12:39 PM
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Morrisman Morrisman is offline
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Default Re: New to the forum, new kit, new advice

We have the current model 20" Stage Custom in the big rehearsal room at my school. As a band director, I hear it a lot from out the front of a stage band.
Toms sound great with clear G2's. Bass drum is loud and punchy, but not as deep sounding as a 22. Occasionally it gets mic'd up, and it sounds huge.

My personal kit has two bass drums - a 20" and a 22". I never take the 22 to gigs. I find the 20 much easier to get in the car and through doorways.
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2017, 12:44 PM
JohnoWorld
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Default Re: New to the forum, new kit, new advice

I'll always recommend a 20" bass drum. But as I've said many times on here, it depends on the shell. If you have a thin shell then the fundamental will be lower meaning you can get just as much out of a 20 thin than a 22 standard.

I don't know who, other than Sonor and Guru, use thin shells, there may be others.

That's why I use Sonor and Guru, small sizes, thin shells, HUGE sound
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