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  #721  
Old 10-17-2014, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Steve Smith getting it done at the Iridium: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hLgdzDK...ature=youtu.be
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  #722  
Old 10-17-2014, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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Originally Posted by Muckster View Post
Steve Smith getting it done at the Iridium: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hLgdzDK...ature=youtu.be
Maybe I'm just weird, but that particular performance isn't doing much for me on the drumming side. He seemed like he wasn't quite in command or sure what he wanted to do as he was doing it.

Contrasted with Art, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IQNPlnc9c0

I'd much rather listen to that.

Again, maybe I'm just weird, or my taste in Jazz is.
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  #723  
Old 11-16-2014, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

I bought this set the day it came out, but I have been re-investigating the DVD recently. This is my favorite group and there is precious little video footage of them playing live together, so this is an incredible resource. There's excellent footage of Tony attacking that ride cymbal, especially on the 10/31/67 concert.

I'm guessing Ants and all the other Tony freaks already have this, but if not, JUST GET IT:

http://www.amazon.com/LIVE-Europe-19.../dp/B005ARYEY6
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  #724  
Old 11-16-2014, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Maybe I'm just weird, but that particular performance isn't doing much for me on the drumming side. He seemed like he wasn't quite in command or sure what he wanted to do as he was doing it.

Contrasted with Art, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IQNPlnc9c0

I'd much rather listen to that.

Again, maybe I'm just weird, or my taste in Jazz is.
I was looking at the Smith Video saying the same thing to myself, and then I scrolled up to your post and I also like the Art Blakley tube better.
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Old 11-16-2014, 04:09 PM
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  #725  
Old 11-16-2014, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I bought this set the day it came out, but I have been re-investigating the DVD recently. This is my favorite group and there is precious little video footage of them playing live together, so this is an incredible resource. There's excellent footage of Tony attacking that ride cymbal, especially on the 10/31/67 concert.

I'm guessing Ants and all the other Tony freaks already have this, but if not, JUST GET IT:

http://www.amazon.com/LIVE-Europe-19.../dp/B005ARYEY6
I am having a hard time finding this CD/ DVD for sale from other stores besides Amazon. In the past when Amazon offered the music on the CD as well as an auto-rip version, the sound quality is truly horrible on the CD. It seems like they burn a copy of the ripped version for you on the CD. So from experience I have tried to keep away from buying CD's when the auto-rip is offered. What is the sound quality of this CD from Amazon?
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  #726  
Old 11-16-2014, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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Originally Posted by evolving_machine View Post
I am having a hard time finding this CD/ DVD for sale from other stores besides Amazon. In the past when Amazon offered the music on the CD as well as an auto-rip version, the sound quality is truly horrible on the CD. It seems like they burn a copy of the ripped version for you on the CD. So from experience I have tried to keep away from buying CD's when the auto-rip is offered. What is the sound quality of this CD from Amazon?
I've never heard of this. What is an auto-rip? The sound of the CD from Amazon isn't going to be confused with a studio date or anything, but it's not bad enough to ruin the music.
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  #727  
Old 11-16-2014, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

8Mile,

To "rip" is to copy something onto your computer.
It's usually used concerning music or video pieces.
If you lend me an album for me to try out, and I really like the music, I can "rip" it onto my computer and give you back your CD.
Now I can listen to the music anytime I want to, because I now have a copy of it.
If you go back to the Amazon page you linked to, and look just above the upper right corner of the picture of the album cover, you'll see the words "auto-rip".
Basically, you pay for the album, then they automatically send the album and store it on your computer.
There's no physical "object" to have, its all virtual.
Thus, no shipping (and waiting for the mail to arrive), so it SHOULD BE cheaper and the whole thing happens, pretty much, instantaneously.
I feel its an okie-dokie practice, if you're rather nonchalant about music and are just ripping pop pieces that you won't care about 6 months from now, but I feel you're more of a connoisseur than that. I fear that the computer your music is stored on will go down and if you can' recover it, then its lost, possibly forever.
SO, you move the rip to a "safe storage location" and in my mind, that's where ripping loses its value. If I have to store it in somekind of "safe location", I might as well just get the dam'd CD and be done with it.
...MHO.



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  #728  
Old 11-16-2014, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

I've been ripping my music to the hard drives for storage for many years, and lately because of the larger size hard drives available, I sometimes rip to a WAV format as opposed to the MP3 format when I want to really enjoy the music. I also back up my hard drives often and have a portable drive that works well. The sound quality is significant better in a lot of cases.

But, what I was saying before about the Amazon auto-rip being available. I just hear the qualities of the CD's to be very poor whenever they offer the auto-rip version for free with the purchase of the CD. It is like they did the cheap low quality auto-rip before you get the music. So as a rule, I have been keeping away from the purchase of CD's on Amazon when this is the case. Now, I am not totally sure about this happening 100% of the time, so that is why I posted this as a question about the sound quality of the 1967 CD.
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  #729  
Old 11-16-2014, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

evolving_machine, and anyone else for that matter, you do whatever makes you happy.
I was only stating my opinion on the practicality of possessing music virtually.
If you're fine with it, go for it and more power to you.


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  #730  
Old 12-15-2014, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

I'm usually reluctant to even provide my family with a Christmas list. I'm one of those "you don't have to buy me anything" cats.

Except this year. I volunteered this the minute I first heard about it. I am so excited to get this book and check it out that I can barely contain myself.

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Note-Unco.../dp/1452141444
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Old 12-15-2014, 04:45 AM
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Old 12-19-2014, 07:50 PM
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  #731  
Old 12-19-2014, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
I picked up the book and it is blowing my mind
Fantastic! I, myself, will have to wait until after Christmas to see if someone buys it for me. With my luck, nobody will, and I'll have to wait a few more days to order it for myself.

Considering your whole life is pretty much engineered to make me envious, I'm surprised your copy didn't come with Wayne Shorter, Ants. :)
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  #732  
Old 12-20-2014, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I'm usually reluctant to even provide my family with a Christmas list. I'm one of those "you don't have to buy me anything" cats.

Except this year. I volunteered this the minute I first heard about it. I am so excited to get this book and check it out that I can barely contain myself.

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Note-Unco.../dp/1452141444
This looks amazing! Thanks for sharing.

Also, all I want for Christmas is to be able to play like Nate Wood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_-3gTbw3Jc#t=91
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  #733  
Old 12-22-2014, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

I've seen clips from this concert before, but I somehow never saw this particular performance. The sound and camerawork are terrific, maybe the best chance to watch Tony doing his thing in a more traditional style (even though this is post-Lifetime, you'll see what I mean). And playing Paiste! The drums sound sublime, too.

http://youtu.be/JHfbIPqTCcc
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  #734  
Old 12-23-2014, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I've seen clips from this concert before, but I somehow never saw this particular performance. The sound and camerawork are terrific, maybe the best chance to watch Tony doing his thing in a more traditional style (even though this is post-Lifetime, you'll see what I mean). And playing Paiste! The drums sound sublime, too.

http://youtu.be/JHfbIPqTCcc
That was sooooo awesome. Thanks for sharing! Absolutely love seeing Tony in high quality like that. And damn, that Chick solo was ridiculous!
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  #735  
Old 01-07-2015, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Love that Tony, the quality is so much better here!

Not to change the subject, but I just put up a new post on my new blog/website about Philly Joe's soloing on "Skatin'". I thought you guys would dig this:

http://www.themelodicdrummer.com/har...lodic-drumming

One other note, if you guys haven't you should all check the vinyl that blue note is reissuing. They got the sound even closer to the original masters using some kind of digital sorcery. I have a couple so far (Genius of Modern Music Vol. 1 and No Room For Squares), and I have to say I really really love the sound!

http://www.bluenote.com/vinylreissues.html
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  #736  
Old 01-09-2015, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Fantastic. Thanks SO much for sharing this. I'm JUST beginning to assimilate Melodic Drumming ideas. Perfect timing!!!
Thanks again!!
Andrew, I really like your site.
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  #737  
Old 01-10-2015, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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Originally Posted by Jazz Man View Post
Fantastic. Thanks SO much for sharing this. I'm JUST beginning to assimilate Melodic Drumming ideas. Perfect timing!!!
Thanks again!!
Andrew, I really like your site.
You are most welcome, thanks for checking it out!
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  #738  
Old 02-03-2015, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

In the event you are interested, figured I'd share.

No one (IMO) does a box set like Mosaic does.

Mosaic Select: Tony Williams

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MS-024

Since I didn't have any of this material in legit format, I purchased this set for keeps.
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  #739  
Old 02-04-2015, 04:33 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
Have any of you tried tackling Petits Machins, by the Miles Davis Quintet?
Apparently, this guy has - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYJ-JVBdFVI
...and as I'm listening to it now, I see that song's got a huge groove going on. All those HH slips, I suspect.


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Old 02-04-2015, 04:39 AM
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Old 02-04-2015, 06:28 PM
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  #740  
Old 02-04-2015, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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whoa! a Dave sighting !!!

this looks great ... I'll be picking this up

thanks my brother
Lol! Glad to pass it along!!
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  #741  
Old 02-04-2015, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Apologies for breaking up the Tony conversation, just thought you guys'd like to listen to this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llpttrD5vo4
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  #742  
Old 03-18-2015, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

I feel like this album doesn't get its due in discussions about the Wayne Shorter discography. It probably has something to do with being recorded in 1965 but not released until 1979.

It's right up there with Wayne's best, as far as I'm concerned. Hearing McCoy and Tony together is fascinating. Tyner's usual drummer, Elvin, is about as stylistically different from Tony as you can get, but the way Tony plays with him here works out great.

Tony's playing and drum sound have never been better, imo. At this young stage of his career, Tony was very much like Jack in that he never seemed to repeat himself or play licks.


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  #743  
Old 03-19-2015, 02:28 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

4 8Mile...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WafAk85cxzs
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  #744  
Old 03-19-2015, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Yeah!

So guess who I'm seeing live with his quartet tomorrow night?

Yes, Wayne Shorter Quartet at DSO Orchestra Hall. I'm fired up for this one. It will be my first time seeing Wayne and this quartet.

I bet many of you are jealous. Except Anthony, who's probably sitting in for Brian Blade on drums.
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:19 PM
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  #745  
Old 03-21-2015, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Speaking of...

Last night, I got to witness the great Wayne Shorter Quartet. I'm not a spiritual man, but it was a spiritual experience. Wayne can really still play. And I have to admit, I got a little freaked out by being in the presence of one of my all-time heroes.

Brian Blade is a master. I don't think I have ever seen a drummer more in-the-moment and in such a sustained state of pure rapture. The empathy between the band members is astounding. I think this is one of the finest improvisational groups around. They are definitely not resting on their laurels.

I can't recommend seeing this group strongly enough. They received multiple standing ovations from an appreciative audience. A really great night I got to share with my daughter.
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Old 03-21-2015, 05:27 PM
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  #746  
Old 03-22-2015, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
Speaking of...

Last night, I got to witness the great Wayne Shorter Quartet. I'm not a spiritual man, but it was a spiritual experience. Wayne can really still play. And I have to admit, I got a little freaked out by being in the presence of one of my all-time heroes.

Brian Blade is a master. I don't think I have ever seen a drummer more in-the-moment and in such a sustained state of pure rapture. The empathy between the band members is astounding. I think this is one of the finest improvisational groups around. They are definitely not resting on their laurels.

I can't recommend seeing this group strongly enough. They received multiple standing ovations from an appreciative audience. A really great night I got to share with my daughter.
I saw them last year. Brian hit his drums so hard, his drum-tech had to readjust his floor tom twice. Wayne wanted to play the whole night, but the other band members had to almost carry him off stage. It was an awesome concert.
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:11 AM
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  #747  
Old 03-22-2015, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Yeah! I was just checking coming here to share that piece. It truly was a special night!
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  #748  
Old 04-19-2016, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

It's weird checking in here and seeing the last post was from me over a year ago.

They've announced the 2016 lineup for the Detroit Jazz Festival. And it's a good one.

Any local cats planning to check it out later this year? If so, hit me up via PM and maybe we can connect. I pretty much live there for the duration of Labor Day weekend.

http://www.freep.com/story/entertain...ners/83154286/
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  #749  
Old 04-20-2016, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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It's weird checking in here and seeing the last post was from me over a year ago.

They've announced the 2016 lineup for the Detroit Jazz Festival. And it's a good one.

Any local cats planning to check it out later this year? If so, hit me up via PM and maybe we can connect. I pretty much live there for the duration of Labor Day weekend.

http://www.freep.com/story/entertain...ners/83154286/
Not yet sure what my plans will be for that weekend Larry but if I can make it over, I'd love to hang. Thanks for the invite!
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  #750  
Old 05-23-2016, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

So a month later... cool, Spleen!

Anyway, I dug out this old classic that I haven't listened to for a while. It's on the "out" side for sure, which I dig.

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  #751  
Old 05-27-2016, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

I got to see Jack DeJonette last night in concert.

I haven't seen a drumming musician in person of his level since Buddy Rich battled Shaughnessey on the Tonight Show in 1978....so it's been a while.

What an eye opener.
So inspiring.

Now I'm curious......which drumming musician of that kind of caliber was the last YOU saw.....and what kind of effect did it have on you?
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  #752  
Old 05-28-2016, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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It's weird checking in here and seeing the last post was from me over a year ago.

They've announced the 2016 lineup for the Detroit Jazz Festival. And it's a good one.

Any local cats planning to check it out later this year? If so, hit me up via PM and maybe we can connect. I pretty much live there for the duration of Labor Day weekend.

http://www.freep.com/story/entertain...ners/83154286/
Got a good bit of family near detroit and out in saginaw. I'll try and arrange a trip out there during this to check it out. Will PM if I can get it arranged. I'll send you my rider.
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  #753  
Old 04-09-2017, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

How do you approach practice for playing this kind of free form? I have a close friend who loves free jazz and I try to accompany him, but I keep running into a wall as far as what to play.

The criticism always comes down to playing more melodically, but I have a tough time putting it into practice playing in this aspect. Currently I am focusing mostly on Stick Control and Master Studies, but that's more on overall drumming than improving free jazz. Listening always helps, but I always end up swaying towards the styles of jazz I like.

It's the first time I am listening to this recording and it flows great, thank you for sharing.

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So a month later... cool, Spleen!

Anyway, I dug out this old classic that I haven't listened to for a while. It's on the "out" side for sure, which I dig.

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  #754  
Old 04-09-2017, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Much of Ornette's earlier stuff, including this record, is what some now call "free bop"-- by which they usually mean bebop without normal form and harmonic structure. Most of what the drummers play is more or less normal bebop vocabulary, but since the music doesn't always adhere to the usual phrase lengths, and they're not soloing over the form of the tune, the drum stuff functions somewhat differently.

If you listen to Sunny Murray with Albert Ayler, or John Coltrane's Interstellar Space, or some of Paul Motian's playing, you'll hear another way of playing free, which doesn't have the time stated directly-- it's more textural, and the time is more of a zone than an exact pulse. There's a David Murray/Milford Graves duo record you might also look up on youtube.

As far as learning to do it and getting better at it, there's really no way to practice this kind of thing-- you have to do it. Since it is supposed to be free jazz, maybe you have some freedom to try some things, and see what works for you-- you don't have to stay totally within bebop vocabulary. Put the emphasis on listening to the people you're playing with rather than listening to yourself or figuring out what you're going to play.
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  #755  
Old 04-10-2017, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Sanguinetti View Post
Hi, I understand you are making a thread with the Jazz guys on the site.

My name is Alex Sanguinetti, I¨m a drummer and drum teacher from Valencia, Spain

Here a VIDEO of mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0XzNlIdu8



Best regards to all!

Alex Sanguinetti
...just came across this thread...

...hi alex, nice playing/drums/cymbals...if you don't mind, what type of ride are you using on your right (on your home page video feed)?...k istanbul?...weight?...stamp type?...sounds a bit like cobb's ride on kind of blue (at least to me)...thanks...

Last edited by singing drums; 04-10-2017 at 12:08 AM. Reason: add a word
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  #756  
Old 04-10-2017, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

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Originally Posted by singing drums View Post
...just came across this thread...

...hi alex, nice playing/drums/cymbals...if you don't mind, what type of ride are you using on your right (on your home page video feed)?...k istanbul?...weight?...stamp type?...sounds a bit like cobb's ride on kind of blue (at least to me)...thanks...
Thank you fo the nice words!

THAT ONE VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0XzNlIdu8 is an old Sabian, 20 inches, all my cymbals are under 2000 grams. Has plenty tape. The one I use more often is 20 Manhathan Ride HHX (1900 g).

Best regards!


Last edited by Alex Sanguinetti; 04-10-2017 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 04-10-2017, 12:47 AM
singing drums singing drums is offline
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Sanguinetti View Post
Thank you fo the nice words!

THAT ONE is an old Sabian, 20 inches, all my cymbals are under 2000 grams. Has plenty tape. The one I use more often is 20 Manhathan Ride HHX (1900 g).

Best regards!


...thank you for your reply...all the best...
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:19 PM
Rippou Rippou is offline
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

That makes sense, thank you. Textural phrasing as in Interstellar Space is what I am especially having a hard time dealing with since what I'm playing tends to sway towards becoming more random than free, not providing that feeling of time zone well enough. Stockholm sessions seem easier to follow maybe because I am more familiar with bop phrasing.

My understanding is that there isn't a specific practice method you can apply to improve free textural jazz playing and you just end up getting better at it the more you play with a group instead of practicing alone.

Unfortunately it also happens to be the slowest method as you can't focus on nailing the swing pattern or flam rudiments alone and see improvements in your playing directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Much of Ornette's earlier stuff, including this record, is what some now call "free bop"-- by which they usually mean bebop without normal form and harmonic structure. Most of what the drummers play is more or less normal bebop vocabulary, but since the music doesn't always adhere to the usual phrase lengths, and they're not soloing over the form of the tune, the drum stuff functions somewhat differently.

If you listen to Sunny Murray with Albert Ayler, or John Coltrane's Interstellar Space, or some of Paul Motian's playing, you'll hear another way of playing free, which doesn't have the time stated directly-- it's more textural, and the time is more of a zone than an exact pulse. There's a David Murray/Milford Graves duo record you might also look up on youtube.

As far as learning to do it and getting better at it, there's really no way to practice this kind of thing-- you have to do it. Since it is supposed to be free jazz, maybe you have some freedom to try some things, and see what works for you-- you don't have to stay totally within bebop vocabulary. Put the emphasis on listening to the people you're playing with rather than listening to yourself or figuring out what you're going to play.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:16 AM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

For that more textural thing, just spend some time moving your limbs in an uncontrolled way-- do it for awhile, and your playing starts to organize itself-- things start to emerge that you couldn't have arrived at any other way. I think to do it effectively you should be aware that even just moving your limbs randomly, you're generating a kind of tempo feel/area/zone. Just listen to yourself and be aware that that is happening, and what you're doing will start making sense. You can also focus on certain areas of the drum set-- if you hang on one of the tom toms or just the cymbals for awhile, that will help create some longer phrases or sections. Repetition is also good-- whatever first random thing you do, keep doing it, and let it develop-- until you feel you have a good reason to do something else.

It also helps to understand that you're composing as you do this-- you're not just making random space junk. Realize that as you're screwing around making noise, you're creating a normal piece of music with a beginning, middle, and end.

Hope that helps. Search for some videos of Billy Mintz, Milford Graves, Rashied Ali, Paul Motian, Tom Rainey, or whoever, too-- you can get an idea of how this music tends to develop, and of what you can get away with.

I went ahead and wrote up a blog post on this subject-- elaborating on this a little bit.
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Last edited by toddbishop; 04-12-2017 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:30 PM
Rippou Rippou is offline
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Default Re: ...for the jazz cats ...

Thank you for taking the time to write that post, I am going to try to put these ideas to use in the upcoming sessions.

Trying to move things in an uncontrolled way after focusing on control training for so long seems interesting, but it will definitely open some doors for me.
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