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  #41  
Old 04-10-2017, 07:12 AM
dboomer dboomer is offline
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Originally Posted by Croc View Post
No question that all the connections take time!
.
No really if you cut and mark a custom snake. It's kinda like using memory locks.

E-kits are not acoustic drums. That's a good and a bad thing at the same time. It just depends what you want. If you wanna sound like acoustic drums then use acoustic drums. If you wanna sound like drums on recordings then use the electronic drums. makes that easy.

You sacrifice touch for a huge pallet of different sounds. Wanna carry 3 dozen snares, each tuned for a specific song? E-kits make that easy. Want dialed in sound in seconds? E-kits make that easy and it's very likely the sound through the mains will be much better, not to mention how much less it will impact the sound of the rest of the band. All those mics on an acoustic kit will likely diminish the sound quality of the rest of the band because of phase cancellations that are inevitable.

Yes, it takes a huge sound system to make then sound great. I think most people that don't like them mainly come tomthat dcision because they have never played an elite through a really great sound system.

In a lot of ways it's like acoustic guitars and acoustic guitars. They are different instruments with different outcomes. Each has its place.
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  #42  
Old 04-10-2017, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

A concern I have about using an E-kit is whether they hold their value. The trend in electronics in general is that newer models have more features for a lower price. Also as E-kits evolve, how soon do they become obsolete?
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  #43  
Old 04-10-2017, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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A concern I have about using an E-kit is whether they hold their value. The trend in electronics in general is that newer models have more features for a lower price. Also as E-kits evolve, how soon do they become obsolete?
Of course they don't hold their value.

They're a waste of money IMO.
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  #44  
Old 04-10-2017, 11:39 PM
BruceW BruceW is offline
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

I use an older Roland TD-6 for practice at home, and there is one venue that we play at where they are overly particular about the volume. (They have a guy walking around with a db meter. Seriously.)

I've played it with my acoustic kit before, but it was a major hassle. We finally decided to bring the Roland kit in. Major improvement! I can play as emphatically as I want, and not have to worry about the volume.

Thing is, you gotta have a PA capable of handling it, and monitors for the rest of the band too. Someone controlling the sound. In my opinion, it does look a bit goofy. The cymbals aren't as good, of course, either.

Set up and tear down for me is FAR simpler. Its a basic kit, I just fold the arms in to move it. The pedals are on a piece of carpet tile. One small throne. Stick bag. Done.

Some good stuff about it, some not so good. Depends on the venue as to whether it makes sense.
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  #45  
Old 04-11-2017, 06:33 AM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

If it's just for somw pads around a hybrid kit I don't think there would be much need for an update.

You can load your own sounds on to anything.

Personally, I think I would be well covered with a Handsonic + SPD-SX.

There also obviously the Nord Drum which is a completely different animal.
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Last edited by Odd-Arne Oseberg; 04-11-2017 at 07:05 AM.
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  #46  
Old 04-11-2017, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

I can understand the concern about a lot of things revolving around E-Kits but NOT the comments about volume.

On the couple of occasions I've used my own E-Kit (and it's a crappy Alesis DM10 by the way) with a fairly loud punk band, the sound engineer has balanced the sounds at sound check as they would do with a mic'd up acoustic and, basically, it has all worked out.

I used my E-Kit when the band I'm in formed up. I needed to re-learn how to ride the bike as it were. It then happened that we got a gig within a month of forming and thought "sod it...we'll do it". Gig went well. No issues.

Bought an acoustic shortly thereafter as we got a gig supporting the UK Subs....but purely on the basis of looks. I felt a crappy fifty quid black Sonor kit looked more the part than the E-Kit.

About a year later, bust my bass drum skin badly whilst loading the car. Didn't have the time to change it. So just threw the E Kit in the back...literally folded everything up in situ and threw it in the back of my mates van...wires hanging down...and prayed. Again, gig went ok.

I prefer acoustics. But E Drums are fine. They really are. From personal experience. And they're a site easier to lump around and set up than acoustics. I'm torn. I feel if I could afford a really top level kit I probably would actually use it live consistently.
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  #47  
Old 04-11-2017, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

I play a Roland TD-15k at church. The kit is new and seems to be very good quality with sturdy hardware and sensitive heads. I have no complaints about it except that the high-hat is awful. It sounds fine if you keep it closed but the moment you open it, anything can happen. Yes, we've adjusted the sensitivity settings over and over again but it won't behave. I guess I also have trouble consistently finding the bell of the ride cymbal, but that may be just me. I play acoustics the rest of the time and enjoy switching back and forth, except for that hateful high-hat. Also, I'd never shell out $4000 of my own money for good electronic kit unless I had an profitable ongoing gig that required it.
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  #48  
Old 04-11-2017, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

IDK to me they overcomplicate...in a big way.... the dead simplest of things. Instead of hitting an A drum with a stick for sound, no I have to hit an unresponsive piece of rubber, that sends an electronic signal to a brain, which processes the signal into the sound I want, and then routes the signal to a PA for reproduction through the FOH PA. Not done yet...I have to run monitors and the associated wiring....I need a sound man, just so I can hear myself.

OK they're easier to move. But they're much more complicated to set up. And they don't sound as good. Don't even get me started on the cymbals. If you use regular cymbals, then you have to mic them to get them into the PA too. But they're easier to move! I will never understand them for gigs. I'd rather have drums that aren't as easy to move, but are better, and infinitely more satisfying in every single other way. I just can't imagine me being fulfilled...at all... playing E kits. No fulfillment. I didn't create the tone, a computer did. There's no pride there for me. It's not just the notes, it's how a drummer makes those notes sound. A drummers touch on an A drum can be a thing of beauty. I for one don't plan on forfeiting that.

E-kits to drummer musicians are not the same as say photoshop is to an artist. Photoshop can do things artists may not have conceived, very well too. E kits can't even make an acceptable cymbal tone yet. In a hundred years, by then maybe the kits will reach a point where I might like them. Until then they continue to make me barf, anywhere I encounter them.
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  #49  
Old 04-11-2017, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

The new Roland TD50 is a major breakthrough. Definitely far more responsive and the new e-cymbals respond better to finesse...at least to some extent. A Logitech touch still sounds sampled, because you just get the same tone at a lower or higher volume, so if I was to close my eyes......well...I would've fooled. Sampled all the way.

The new acoustic electric kick is a definite step up. It seemed to actually understand a light touch and change volumes accordingly, but still has that distinct Roland kick sound. There's still no warm thud when played lightly and you still get a punch regardless of approach. The snare and toms look better, but I didn't really notice much in the way of improved dynamics.

As already been said. They do what they do well and if everything you play is to be a kick in the face, then great. If you ever need to "feel" a song, you may as well just ask for a kick in the nuts, because they don't get finesse at all.
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  #50  
Old 04-11-2017, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

It is about practicality, but that will mean different things to different people and a lot depends on the gig.

If a kit isn't needed there's of course the choice of going light and acoustic. Cajon kit is one thing, but you can do anything. Small frame drum bass drum etc..

Electronic kits are still mainly two things to the average serious drummer.

1) Practice kit for home
2) For sounds you can't do or would be a major hassle to do any other way.

For those who want them to be real replacements there's a long way to go. There are nice feeling things available today and they're not the mesh heads. Cymbals is another where we have multi zone rubber ones and the Gen 16s. None of the are really there, but if I was to make a guess the solution is probably to combine those two technologies in some way.


Some sort of hybrid is very common all arond these days, though. I see it everywhere. There's usually at least a real snare.
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  #51  
Old 04-11-2017, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Originally Posted by PlayTheSong View Post
I play a Roland TD-15k at church. The kit is new and seems to be very good quality with sturdy hardware and sensitive heads. I have no complaints about it except that the high-hat is awful. It sounds fine if you keep it closed but the moment you open it, anything can happen. Yes, we've adjusted the sensitivity settings over and over again but it won't behave. I guess I also have trouble consistently finding the bell of the ride cymbal, but that may be just me. I play acoustics the rest of the time and enjoy switching back and forth, except for that hateful high-hat. Also, I'd never shell out $4000 of my own money for good electronic kit unless I had an profitable ongoing gig that required it.
Yeah....100% agreement.

My hi hat is so bad that I have programmed it as a splash cymbal and completely over-ridden the hi hat option. Works for me as most of my drumming is ride and crash based.
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  #52  
Old 04-11-2017, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
IDK to me they overcomplicate...in a big way.... the dead simplest of things. Instead of hitting an A drum with a stick for sound, no I have to hit an unresponsive piece of rubber, that sends an electronic signal to a brain, which processes the signal into the sound I want, and then routes the signal to a PA for reproduction through the FOH PA. Not done yet...I have to run monitors and the associated wiring....I need a sound man, just so I can hear myself.

OK they're easier to move. But they're much more complicated to set up. And they don't sound as good. Don't even get me started on the cymbals. If you use regular cymbals, then you have to mic them to get them into the PA too. But they're easier to move! I will never understand them for gigs. I'd rather have drums that aren't as easy to move, but are better, and infinitely more satisfying in every single other way. I just can't imagine me being fulfilled...at all... playing E kits. No fulfillment. I didn't create the tone, a computer did. There's no pride there for me. It's not just the notes, it's how a drummer makes those notes sound. A drummers touch on an A drum can be a thing of beauty. I for one don't plan on forfeiting that.

E-kits to drummer musicians are not the same as say photoshop is to an artist. Photoshop can do things artists may not have conceived, very well too. E kits can't even make an acceptable cymbal tone yet. In a hundred years, by then maybe the kits will reach a point where I might like them. Until then they continue to make me barf, anywhere I encounter them.
I agree with most of what you say...other than there is no way whatsoever that you can claim acoustic drums are easier to set up than E-Drums. Just no way. You're doing something drastically wrong there if you stand by that.

End of the day there's a rack....four toms....and three cymbals....with (normally) a colour coded cable between brain and each trigger.

I can throw the whole thing together from scratch in about 5 minutes tops. Drum there...plug...Drum there...plug...etc. Done.

(EDIT: Actually takes longer to set the rack up from scratch than the drums/cymbals....I just don't bother (see below))

And I can pull my e drums down in roughly 30 seconds flat if required....I just whip the cymbals off....turn the toms around a bit....and basically squash the whole lot down into the rack (it's quite 'safe' I promise) with cables in situ.....

Throw them into the back of the car....take them where I need them....reverse (takes about a minute)....plug in...ready to play.

Like I say...agree with almost everything people have said about the disadvantages, but to suggest one of the major advantages (ie. capacity and ease of setup) is NOT an advantage isn't fair.
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  #53  
Old 04-11-2017, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

Yeah. You just fold them up. lol
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  #54  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Yeah. You just fold them up. lol
Yup. I do.

I've carried the whole thing around the house in this manner (on my own). And loaded it all in the back of my SUV.

I may have taken the floor tom off to do so and/or maybe the snare. But its a rear rack, and two side racks, which fold into a very loose Z shape to an extent where they can be carried around and loaded.

Hey...probably not ideal....but I've had them about 5 years now. Still pretty much as good as new.

But, even if I take all the toms and cymbals off, and unplug the cables....still do that in about a tenth of a time you'd take to do the same with a full acoustic set up.

The bag I have for the drums....simple, with five compartments. Again, a lot quicker than loading drums into individual bags.

Sheesh...I can send photos if you think I'm bullshitting or something mate

Martin
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  #55  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

Not maing fun at all. I don't have one myself, but that's how we roll in the school I've worked. Just take the pedals off.

Something like the digital Traps version was pretty much made to do that.
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  #56  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Originally Posted by SquadLeader View Post
I agree with most of what you say...other than there is no way whatsoever that you can claim acoustic drums are easier to set up than E-Drums. Just no way. You're doing something drastically wrong there if you stand by that.

End of the day there's a rack....four toms....and three cymbals....with (normally) a colour coded cable between brain and each trigger.

I can throw the whole thing together from scratch in about 5 minutes tops. Drum there...plug...Drum there...plug...etc. Done.

(EDIT: Actually takes longer to set the rack up from scratch than the drums/cymbals....I just don't bother (see below))

And I can pull my e drums down in roughly 30 seconds flat if required....I just whip the cymbals off....turn the toms around a bit....and basically squash the whole lot down into the rack (it's quite 'safe' I promise) with cables in situ.....

Throw them into the back of the car....take them where I need them....reverse (takes about a minute)....plug in...ready to play.

Like I say...agree with almost everything people have said about the disadvantages, but to suggest one of the major advantages (ie. capacity and ease of setup) is NOT an advantage isn't fair.
Completely agree. Very easy just to take the cymbals done and fold everything up. Works with a Yamaha 562K. I also LIKE the consistent feel of the pads vs the variable bounce of a-drums. Much easier to do mixes of doubles and singles for example.
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  #57  
Old 04-11-2017, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Originally Posted by SquadLeader View Post
Yeah....100% agreement.

My hi hat is so bad that I have programmed it as a splash cymbal and completely over-ridden the hi hat option. Works for me as most of my drumming is ride and crash based.
I agree with everyone who have commented on the touch of the hihat cymbals. That has been the hardest thing to adjust in the module and with my playing. Still getting used to slosh and opening during hits with the hats. I haven't found the bell, bow and edge to be difficult on the ride or crash, however. Smaller than acoustic but not bad and quite responsive.
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  #58  
Old 04-11-2017, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Originally Posted by RIneuron View Post
I also LIKE the consistent feel of the pads vs the variable bounce of a-drums. Much easier to do mixes of doubles and singles for example.
Im glad this part work for you, but it turns me into an absolutely inept drummer. If I play an e-kit too long, I tend to drive everything into the ground and can't "pull" the sound out of antything for a while. What's the use if doubles sounding awesome on an e-kit, if you can't do the same on the real thing (acoustic)? This is where I actually prefer some of the rubber Yamaha offerings well over mesh. Their rubber is kinda forgiving and doesn't bounce the stick back as much as most others. It's not hard either, so my joints don't hurt when playing them for prolonged periods. They also don't mess up my playing when I switch between them and acoustic. Unfortunately, I'm stuck on a mesh headed e-kit with an obnoxiously painful and unreliable hihat and a kick drum that interprats everything including a touch as a canon shot. If I back off sensitivity, it doesn't play. So, sucky HH, a canon for a kick and ecymbals that interpret cymbal hits based on how they feel at that moment and I lose all excitement for any easy to setup benefits. I fully agree though. Very nice to have e-kits to add sounds. This is my primary reason for wanting one. If you're stuck in an apartment or have to be restricted to playing an e-kit, then this is a moot point. Give me the e-kit....
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  #59  
Old 04-11-2017, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

I guess the whole deal with meah was that it would be silent and somewhat tunable. I do sometimes use digital pads when teaching, but to me they feel pretty awful.

If that matters the Super Pads that I use for my practice kit are the best feeling pads I've come across and the Onheads are trigger versions of that. No pad hands no contest.
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  #60  
Old 04-11-2017, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Originally Posted by RIneuron View Post
I agree with everyone who have commented on the touch of the hihat cymbals. That has been the hardest thing to adjust in the module and with my playing. Still getting used to slosh and opening during hits with the hats. I haven't found the bell, bow and edge to be difficult on the ride or crash, however. Smaller than acoustic but not bad and quite responsive.
Wondering if anyone's tried the newest type of E-Hi Hat...the ones which are made LIKE hi hats (ie. they open and close physically)

How do they work ?
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  #61  
Old 04-11-2017, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

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Wondering if anyone's tried the newest type of E-Hi Hat...the ones which are made LIKE hi hats (ie. they open and close physically)

How do they work ?

More like home physically as it does move, but it's still a weird hefty shunk of rubber.
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  #62  
Old 04-11-2017, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

I switched back from electronic to acoustic, but only because I wanted to play jazz, avant garde, and strange music that requires using the full sound and dynamic range of the drums and cymbals rather than just standard center or rim etc.

We should not criticize ekits so readily, as for most rock genres they are perfectly fine, and for quiet practice with headphones on, they are the best solution by far. Mine was based on a Yamaha DTX700 and it sounded brilliant. On occasion I would trigger VSTs on the computer and the sound was incredible.

If I played simple rock, pop, country, funk, reggae etc., I would probably still be using them. They just fail for most kinds of jazz.
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  #63  
Old 04-12-2017, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Drummers using E kits

I don't play mine out cuz I want to, its the one venue where the volume is such an issue that its a much better solution for our band. Its a compromise, but one worth it to me, in the long run. Trade-offs....always trade-offs.

The set up time is minimal. Literally carry it in, spread the arms back out, plug in the pedals and power cord, and the lead to the PA. FAR less time than assembling my acoustic kit.

Again, I'd rather play the acoustic kit. But this is a better solution than having to have fights with the staff, and risk losing future gigs.
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