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  #1  
Old 04-01-2017, 04:41 PM
Drumquest2 Drumquest2 is offline
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Default 'PHAT' snare sound

In a recent video, Nick D'Virgilio recommends detensioning fully one tuning lug and slackening two adjacent on the batter head . Could this risk warping the head collar?
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Old 04-01-2017, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by Drumquest2 View Post
In a recent video, Nick D'Virgilio recommends detensioning fully one tuning lug and slackening two adjacent on the batter head . Could this risk warping the head collar?
It would likely depend on the overall tension of the other lugs, the age of the head (less likely on old), etc. I've tried that on mine one snare sounds great that way, but the other three terrible. It's way easier to throw on a Big Fat Snare Drum for a song if you need it. Costs the same as a new head, way faster than retuning/retuning with zero risk. Sounds killer too.
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:58 PM
WallyY WallyY is offline
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

Benny Greb says he tunes his 13" snare like that.

A new triple flange hoop is cheap too, but it probably won't bend much and if it does, just bend it back.
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by Drumquest2 View Post
In a recent video, Nick D'Virgilio recommends detensioning fully one tuning lug and slackening two adjacent on the batter head . Could this risk warping the head collar?
One of the most Mickey Mouse things I've ever heard. You want phat, get a phat snare.
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
It's way easier to throw on a Big Fat Snare Drum for a song if you need it. Costs the same as a new head, way faster than retuning/retuning with zero risk. Sounds killer too.
Not to take any money out of their mouth, but that's an old studio trick easily (and more cheaply) accomplished with new head cut out to 1/2" smaller than the drum size. A 14" Evans G14 clear is about $15-16 in stores, is pretty sturdy (14mils)and provides the same sound.

A product called StudioS was released in the early '80s trying to capitalize on that old trick, it didn't last very long. :(

BTW, the layered head thing works on toms, too. :)

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Old 04-01-2017, 09:04 PM
Drumquest2 Drumquest2 is offline
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

Thanks to Bermuda for good advice. Do the cut out heads have to be single ply and new or will good condition used twin ply heads do the job?
is the end result much different from using Moon Gel or Remo sound control rings?
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:41 AM
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Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by Drumquest2 View Post
Thanks to Bermuda for good advice. Do the cut out heads have to be single ply and new or will good condition used twin ply heads do the job?
is the end result much different from using Moon Gel or Remo sound control rings?
I would try a single ply head. A used head works good.
I have used a single sheet of printer paper in the past. The more sheets of paper you use the fatter the sound.
But more paper will make the drum more quiet. Of course the paper won't last long, but it works in a pinch.

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Old 04-02-2017, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
I would try a single ply head. A used head works good.
I have used a single sheet of printer paper in the past. The more sheets of paper you use the fatter the sound.
But more paper will make the drum more quiet. Of course the paper won't last long, but it works in a pinch.

.
I wouldn't think a used head would sit flat enough. Evidently that's not the case? I flipped my used Evans G1 upside down with the collar intact and the fist hit and the head basically inverted its low spot and slid off. I guess I could have cut out the center as a test, but for the price of a new G14, I got the BFSD head and saved the labor of cutting something up straight. You still have a attached damper and ruberized lip to help lift the film off the snare. With a DIY, I'd have to fabricate something. Sometimes it's just not worth the experiment, unless it translates to greater savings.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:00 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
I wouldn't think a used head would sit flat enough. Evidently that's not the case? I flipped my used Evans G1 upside down with the collar intact and the fist hit and the head basically inverted its low spot and slid off. I guess I could have cut out the center as a test, but for the price of a new G14, I got the BFSD head and saved the labor of cutting something up straight. You still have a attached damper and ruberized lip to help lift the film off the snare. With a DIY, I'd have to fabricate something. Sometimes it's just not worth the experiment, unless it translates to greater savings.
I get what you are saying.

I don't use used heads that are full of dents, the ones I use are mostly flat. I cut out the center of the head so that it is about 1/4 inch smaller than the inside of the batter head on the drum. 1/4 inch smaller all the way around. It stays put when I play. I don't smack loud rim shots all night long. It's easy to lay in down and take it off.

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Old 04-02-2017, 05:12 AM
WallyY WallyY is offline
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by Stroker View Post
One of the most Mickey Mouse things I've ever heard. You want phat, get a phat snare.
Why is it Mickey Mouse?
There's nothing wrong with tuning any way that sounds correct to yourself.

I'm amazed that so many people seem to think drum tuning must always be evenly tensioned.
There's an endless variety of different drum sounds and using the tension rods in an un-orthodox fashion is a perfectly valid way to go about it. It also can be a completely different sound from a drum head cutout, or phat snare thing.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:21 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by WallyY View Post
Why is it Mickey Mouse?
There's nothing wrong with tuning any way that sounds correct to yourself.

I'm amazed that so many people seem to think drum tuning must always be evenly tensioned.
There's an endless variety of different drum sounds and using the tension rods in an un-orthodox fashion is a perfectly valid way to go about it. It also can be a completely different sound from a drum head cutout, or phat snare thing.
Perfectly valid so long as drum gear isn't compromised.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:22 AM
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GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

I remember watching this video one day for quick tuning a snare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht2JgVdHQdw Interesting idea-that I never tried btw. But it did catch my eye.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by WallyY View Post
There's an endless variety of different drum sounds and using the tension rods in an un-orthodox fashion is a perfectly valid way to go about it. It also can be a completely different sound from a drum head cutout, or phat snare thing.
You are correct.

I'm playing a rock song. My snare is tuned for a good crack. We switch to a slow blues song.
I put the cutout head onto my snare. It gives me a more "phat" snare sound. Songs over, I remove the cutout. That's how it works.

It's all about being more musical. There is no wrong or right way to make different sounds. Maybe the audience never notices.
But it pleases me and the other band members. It's all about personal preference.

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Old 04-02-2017, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumquest2 View Post
Thanks to Bermuda for good advice. Do the cut out heads have to be single ply and new or will good condition used twin ply heads do the job?
is the end result much different from using Moon Gel or Remo sound control rings?
A 2-ply will yield two thinner (7 mil) sheets, which is not necessarily bad. I suspect the sound would be even wetter, but also less durable.

Rings and gels don't give the same sound as the overlay. In fact, it's not a sound that a drum can achieve through tuning. It's wet, it's gated, and it's pitched down. It's... different.

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Last edited by bermuda; 04-02-2017 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
I wouldn't think a used head would sit flat enough. Evidently that's not the case? I flipped my used Evans G1 upside down with the collar intact and the fist hit and the head basically inverted its low spot and slid off.
The best result comes from a flat batter, and a flat (read: new) overlay, so they work together. Any dishing interrupts the integrity of the 2 heads and gives less than optimum results.

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Old 04-02-2017, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by Drumquest2 View Post
In a recent video, Nick D'Virgilio recommends detensioning fully one tuning lug and slackening two adjacent on the batter head . Could this risk warping the head collar?
I'd be more worried about the rim (assuming triple-flanged, not die cast) than the head, since the head is going to wear out eventually anyway. I think I wouldn't leave it detuned all the time-- I'd get the sound for the gig or whatever, then retune it normally for practicing and storage. For a really dooshy sound I'd get a two-ply head, like a coated Emperor. A Pinstripe would be really extreme version of that effect.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

Personally I can't understand why anyone would want to tune a head unevenly. Not when there are moongel and o-ring products on the market.

If I want a really fat snare sound, what I do is tune the snare to it's lowest possible tension without creases, then I add an o-ring or a moongel (mostly o-ring) and you have the fattest snare sound possible from the drum you have.

I would just never want to risk the warping of a rim, as I play Sonor and they ain't cheap.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

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Originally Posted by JohnoWorld View Post

If I want a really fat snare sound, what I do is tune the snare to it's lowest possible tension without creases, then I add an o-ring or a moongel (mostly o-ring) and you have the fattest snare sound possible from the drum you have.
You would think, but slap an overlay on top and prepare to have your mind blown. It can also make a side snare give you a passable conga sound with the snares disengaged.
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: 'PHAT' snare sound

I was checking out Guru sounds over the weekend and one of the videos has a snare tuned so low it sounded electronic. It was amazing

What's the overlay you mention? I may have missed something in the thread
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