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  #1  
Old 12-29-2016, 02:05 AM
savage8190
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Default For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Deleted so no one else gets their panties in a twist.

Last edited by savage8190; 12-30-2016 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:31 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Thanx for the reviews!

I might be lucky. I have an in-home lesson every 1.5 to 3 months. Two hours @ $100 (cash). I think Feb will be my 3-year anniversary.

The only website I subscribed to was Bill B's site, and that was only for a few months to fix my technique so I wasn't hurting myself. His extreme-hands-makeover is literally so good that it probably costs him longterm subscriptions.

Outside of that, there's enough free stuff on youtube to keep me going indefinitely. I understand that some people need a routine/program/structure to adhere to, but I really just needed to be able to play convincingly when the light turns red.

Peace, Love, and goodwill.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:38 AM
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Icetech Icetech is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Your review of drumeo was pretty much dead on.. i spent a year there and it was great, i did prefer the old layout much more though. I got a free trial of mikeslessons and it didn't like it much at all.. but just personal taste...
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:40 AM
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BenjaminCamelot BenjaminCamelot is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
The only website I subscribed to was Bill B's site, and that was only for a few months to fix my technique so I wasn't hurting myself. His extreme-hands-makeover is literally so good that it probably costs him longterm subscriptions.
Bill B as in Bill Bruford?
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:07 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by BenjaminCamelot View Post
Bill B as in Bill Bruford?
Bill Bachman...

https://www.drumworkout.com
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2016, 07:41 AM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

I appreciate your taking the time to write up your experiences. I have a few caveats and thoughts about this, for you and for others using this post as guidance:
  • As a beginning drumming student, you are not qualified to assess the quality of these products. You can judge ease of use, which one you like the best, and which one you can afford, but you don't know which one actually offers the best value re: your real improvement as a musician per $ spent.

  • The products you reviewed are not equivalent services, so the price comparison isn't really meaningful except in re: absolute budget-- how much are you able to spend on drumming this year-- and if you're going to use only one of these products, and not learn another way.

  • For example: learning to play the drums involves a lot of listening to records (included in your current annual recorded music budget), watching people play (which you can do for a cover charge and cost of a soft drink), and playing with people (which you can do for free). A person who did all of those things a lot would be a much better musician after two years than the person who did only one of your reviewed products.

    What would the cost be to do that, plus, say, 3 months per year of drum lessons with an expert teacher? A student who did that would blow away anyone just relying on the online products. This isn't hypothetical-- most professional players did something like that when they were students. They all didn't necessarily take lessons full time.

Re: actual "in-person" drum lessons:
  • That headline should actually read in-person lessons with this one guy. Judging "in-person lessons" by your experience with one mediocre teacher is, well, wildly wrong. To find the right teacher, most people need to a) get a referral, b) try a few.

  • A drum teacher's job is not to give you tons of things to work on. You can get tons of things to work on by buying some books. For $100, you can get more practice materials than you will ever master for the rest of your life. On my site, totally free of charge, is more stuff than you will ever learn to play. Finding things to practice is not the problem.

    The teacher's actual job, at least in re: lesson assignments, is to be an expert, to know what you need to know right now, and to assign things that will advance your playing accordingly. And to give you advice on the things you're working on on your own-- it's assumed that you will be working on your own stuff, too.

  • Actual face time with an expert teacher who is also a good communicator is just a completely different animal from these no-feedback or video feedback "lessons." For example: often I'll work with the student on specific technical issue for up to 30-45 minutes, involving many dozens or hundreds of information exchanges: him/her doing the thing and me assessing, correcting and refining, or making her do it another way, or jumping something else if I see that it will help her get the thing we're working on. It's a complex process. And it is impossible to duplicate that service with any video feedback product.

So, yeah. I don't think these services/products are really comparable. Using the sites is much more like just buying a bunch of drum books than it is like actually taking lessons.
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:23 PM
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AzHeat AzHeat is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

If I may chime in.....this coming from a mostly self taught drummer of 35 years, I found the reviews fairly handy. Not everyone has the budget for a good drum teacher. I certainly don't. If it was an absolute priority and my livelihood depended on it, then absolutely, a high paid, high quality instructor would be worth his weight in gold. If on the other hand, Drums are part of your life's enjoyment, then the reviews are golden.
Personally, I wish I could take drum lessons from an expert. I've looked into them and the only ones I find are about 30 miles away from me, cost a fortune and are only available during my work hours.
Combing through endless useless videos on YouTube to find an occasional nugget is time consuming as well, so if I can get direction for $30 per month, work on lesson on my time and learn three new tricks per year, than I've accomplished 10x the value payed.
For the most part, I suck as a drummer, but I've paid $0 for my training. I used to gig pretty regularly and the bands I played in had a pretty big following. People seemed to enjoy themselves and we had a great time. to say you need to pay $X for only Y or Z to make it worth your time, doesn't serve people well either. There are nuggets all around and we each have different needs, capabilities, time and finances to dedicate to the craft.
I thank the OP for taking time and I thank you for your link and dedication to provide some excellent free material. it's why most of us are here on this forum. To communicate and learn. For me, it's given me the greatest boost in playing I've had in years and my limited hour a day practices have been meaningful, so thanks to all for your reviews and contributions.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:47 PM
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Jared_Falk Jared_Falk is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

This was my favourite (Canadian spelling) part:

I understand that there is some animosity towards Jared Falk, and I get it, he's not my favorite. But honestly, once you get past his annoying marketing hype and join up you barely ever see him anymore; he seems to have distanced himself from the company a bit.

But seriously, I do appreciate your honesty and breakdown of all the different options for drummers.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2016, 06:11 PM
BruceW BruceW is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
I appreciate your taking the time to write up your experiences. I have a few caveats and thoughts about this, for you and for others using this post as guidance:
  • As a beginning drumming student, you are not qualified to assess the quality of these products. You can judge ease of use, which one you like the best, and which one you can afford, but you don't know which one actually offers the best value re: your real improvement as a musician per $ spent.

  • The products you reviewed are not equivalent services, so the price comparison isn't really meaningful except in re: absolute budget-- how much are you able to spend on drumming this year-- and if you're going to use only one of these products, and not learn another way.

  • For example: learning to play the drums involves a lot of listening to records (included in your current annual recorded music budget), watching people play (which you can do for a cover charge and cost of a soft drink), and playing with people (which you can do for free). A person who did all of those things a lot would be a much better musician after two years than the person who did only one of your reviewed products.

    What would the cost be to do that, plus, say, 3 months per year of drum lessons with an expert teacher? A student who did that would blow away anyone just relying on the online products. This isn't hypothetical-- most professional players did something like that when they were students. They all didn't necessarily take lessons full time.

Re: actual "in-person" drum lessons:
  • That headline should actually read in-person lessons with this one guy. Judging "in-person lessons" by your experience with one mediocre teacher is, well, wildly wrong. To find the right teacher, most people need to a) get a referral, b) try a few.

  • A drum teacher's job is not to give you tons of things to work on. You can get tons of things to work on by buying some books. For $100, you can get more practice materials than you will ever master for the rest of your life. On my site, totally free of charge, is more stuff than you will ever learn to play. Finding things to practice is not the problem.

    The teacher's actual job, at least in re: lesson assignments, is to be an expert, to know what you need to know right now, and to assign things that will advance your playing accordingly. And to give you advice on the things you're working on on your own-- it's assumed that you will be working on your own stuff, too.

  • Actual face time with an expert teacher who is also a good communicator is just a completely different animal from these no-feedback or video feedback "lessons." For example: often I'll work with the student on specific technical issue for up to 30-45 minutes, involving many dozens or hundreds of information exchanges: him/her doing the thing and me assessing, correcting and refining, or making her do it another way, or jumping something else if I see that it will help her get the thing we're working on. It's a complex process. And it is impossible to duplicate that service with any video feedback product.

So, yeah. I don't think these services/products are really comparable. Using the sites is much more like just buying a bunch of drum books than it is like actually taking lessons.
I didn't take the OPs post the same way that you did, but perhaps that's because I'm not a terribly skilled drummer myself. (Can't really call myself a beginner, just not a virtuoso.) I could certainly benefit from structured lessons myself.

I read it from his perspective of being new. I've looked at Drumeo myself, and found much of what he said to be accurate in my experience. I haven't subscribed, and as such I'm not familiar with the full experience, so I appreciated his perspective.

I think most folks reading his review will understand that he might not be the best judge from a critical standpoint. He is giving us his experience coming from a beginners perspective. Most folks looking athese services are likely beginners themselves. More skilled and/or experienced players might not appreciate the methods taught, but that will also be coming from a more experienced position than the OP (or the target demographic for such services.) The cost comparisons are simply handy to have, if only to know what you're looking at before spending too much time investigating a service that might be out of your price range, or if it can be justified.

Thanks for the reviews.
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared_Falk View Post
This was my favourite (Canadian spelling) part:

I understand that there is some animosity towards Jared Falk, and I get it, he's not my favorite. But honestly, once you get past his annoying marketing hype and join up you barely ever see him anymore; he seems to have distanced himself from the company a bit.

But seriously, I do appreciate your honesty and breakdown of all the different options for drummers.
The beauty of the Internet is regardless of what you do or say, someone will be annoyed. If I could figure out how to make money for my built in gift of annoyance, I'd make sure I was 10x more annoying than people think you are and make a bundle from it!
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:54 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

In Jared's defense, I find him to be good at what he does. He doesn't waste time by making any drummer interviews a platform for Jared Falk, he focuses on his guests. His questions don't slow the momentum, he is not a holdback to the show like some interviewers are. I for one appreciate the things he doesn't do. He seems very secure and doesn't need to make himself come off like... whatever. He's humble and can see past himself and I appreciate that. He's good at letting his guests feel comfortable and in charge.

As far as your reviews Mr. savage, it was very generous of you to take the time to chronicle your experiences and write it out so thoughtfully for others to learn from. It's deeds like this that makes this forum great. So thank you for your thoughtful review. I got a lot from it.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:06 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
I didn't take the OPs post the same way that you did, but perhaps that's because I'm not a terribly skilled drummer myself. (Can't really call myself a beginner, just not a virtuoso.) I could certainly benefit from structured lessons myself.
Indeed. Once you are comfortable on an instrument, it's easy to forget the confusion, misconceptions, and anxiety you had going into it.

FWIW: I didn't need an instructor to teach me how to play drums, I needed an instructor to teach me how to learn to play the drums. Something as simple as "slow down" was meaningless, because I didn't fully understand how to slow down at first. There's more to it than simply playing a part slower, especially when you have to fight your intuition.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:23 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
Not everyone has the budget for a good drum teacher.
I don't believe the "budget" option here is not actually the best value-- as is often the case. I think any student would be better off spending the entire year's cost for any of those sites on real drum lessons plus a few choice books. Six weeks/three months of actual lessons with a decent teacher should be enough to prepare you to work productively on your own for the rest of the year.


Quote:
I certainly don't. If it was an absolute priority and my livelihood depended on it, then absolutely, a high paid, high quality instructor would be worth his weight in gold. If on the other hand, Drums are part of your life's enjoyment, then the reviews are golden.
Personally, I wish I could take drum lessons from an expert. I've looked into them and the only ones I find are about 30 miles away from me, cost a fortune and are only available during my work hours.
You should be able to find somebody decent for $30-50/hour, depending on where you live. If there's a state university close by, one of the jazz students might be good enough to teach you for less than that. The nearest community college may have a part time percussion teacher who could help you. Or maybe your super-expensive guy can refer you to one of his students who would be good for you. There are probably a few teachers out there who won't want to refer you to someone else, but most will want to help you find a situation that works for you.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:26 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
I appreciate your taking the time to write up your experiences. I have a few caveats and thoughts about this, for you and for others using this post as guidance:
  • As a beginning drumming student, you are not qualified to assess the quality of these products. You can judge ease of use, which one you like the best, and which one you can afford, but you don't know which one actually offers the best value re: your real improvement as a musician per $ spent.

  • The products you reviewed are not equivalent services, so the price comparison isn't really meaningful except in re: absolute budget-- how much are you able to spend on drumming this year-- and if you're going to use only one of these products, and not learn another way.

  • For example: learning to play the drums involves a lot of listening to records (included in your current annual recorded music budget), watching people play (which you can do for a cover charge and cost of a soft drink), and playing with people (which you can do for free). A person who did all of those things a lot would be a much better musician after two years than the person who did only one of your reviewed products.

    What would the cost be to do that, plus, say, 3 months per year of drum lessons with an expert teacher? A student who did that would blow away anyone just relying on the online products. This isn't hypothetical-- most professional players did something like that when they were students. They all didn't necessarily take lessons full time.

Re: actual "in-person" drum lessons:
  • That headline should actually read in-person lessons with this one guy. Judging "in-person lessons" by your experience with one mediocre teacher is, well, wildly wrong. To find the right teacher, most people need to a) get a referral, b) try a few.

  • A drum teacher's job is not to give you tons of things to work on. You can get tons of things to work on by buying some books. For $100, you can get more practice materials than you will ever master for the rest of your life. On my site, totally free of charge, is more stuff than you will ever learn to play. Finding things to practice is not the problem.

    The teacher's actual job, at least in re: lesson assignments, is to be an expert, to know what you need to know right now, and to assign things that will advance your playing accordingly. And to give you advice on the things you're working on on your own-- it's assumed that you will be working on your own stuff, too.

  • Actual face time with an expert teacher who is also a good communicator is just a completely different animal from these no-feedback or video feedback "lessons." For example: often I'll work with the student on specific technical issue for up to 30-45 minutes, involving many dozens or hundreds of information exchanges: him/her doing the thing and me assessing, correcting and refining, or making her do it another way, or jumping something else if I see that it will help her get the thing we're working on. It's a complex process. And it is impossible to duplicate that service with any video feedback product.

So, yeah. I don't think these services/products are really comparable. Using the sites is much more like just buying a bunch of drum books than it is like actually taking lessons.

Thanks for this and saving me the time of typing something similar.

The OP is really comparing apples and oranges and bananas. And your point about beginners not knowing what they don't know is spot on, with all due respect to anyone who considers themselves a beginner. A beginner finds a teacher because they don't yet know how to tell the difference between what works and what doesn't. Part of a teacher's job is to help them learn that.

The trouble with pre-fab videos is that they're directed at a wide audience, not a specific student. They cast a wide net. But, a good teacher can adapt and change their methods to suit the learning style and personality of the student, if necessary. So being, if a pre-fab system doesn't work for you, it may not be that the information or the presentation is objectively poor, just that it didn't hit the mark with you.

For instance, reading that the OP needed to stop playing drums because they couldn't *get* something presented to them in a video lesson makes me think that A) the material was too advanced for them and B) that if I had a student who was reaching the depths of despair over something so early in their drumming career, I'd have shifted them onto something else (or at least broken the concept up into easier-to-digest pieces) long before and addressed the confidence issue they were having. Don't get me wrong, good things take time and dedicated effort but it's also possible to bite off more than one can chew. A pre-fab lesson can be downloaded and viewed/attempted by anyone, whether they're ready for that lesson or not.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:40 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
I think most folks reading his review will understand that he might not be the best judge from a critical standpoint. He is giving us his experience coming from a beginners perspective. Most folks looking athese services are likely beginners themselves. More skilled and/or experienced players might not appreciate the methods taught, but that will also be coming from a more experienced position than the OP (or the target demographic for such services.) The cost comparisons are simply handy to have, if only to know what you're looking at before spending too much time investigating a service that might be out of your price range, or if it can be justified.
Sure. I'm not being critical of him for writing the reviews, but I don't want people to be misled that he's actually given a complete and informed review of their options. It's a pretty severe distortion, actually, to compare private lessons with the web products the way he has, and it would be irresponsible to let that stand without giving some more information.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:01 PM
RIneuron RIneuron is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared_Falk View Post
This was my favourite (Canadian spelling) part:

I understand that there is some animosity towards Jared Falk, and I get it, he's not my favorite. But honestly, once you get past his annoying marketing hype and join up you barely ever see him anymore; he seems to have distanced himself from the company a bit.

But seriously, I do appreciate your honesty and breakdown of all the different options for drummers.
Jared---
Keep on keeping on and ignore the haters. Like many others, I enjoy your style, your ability to explain drumming concepts clearly, and your skill on the kit.

Paul
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:04 PM
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Dizeee Dizeee is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared_Falk View Post
This was my favourite (Canadian spelling) part:

I understand that there is some animosity towards Jared Falk, and I get it, he's not my favorite. But honestly, once you get past his annoying marketing hype and join up you barely ever see him anymore; he seems to have distanced himself from the company a bit.

But seriously, I do appreciate your honesty and breakdown of all the different options for drummers.
Wow... had no idea Jared was here! Great frankenkit solo too by the way I watched last night.

For me I personally love Drumeo and particularly find Jared an inspiring and interesting drummer. I don't find any issues with the 39 seconds of shout outs regarding a couple of brands at the start if a free one hour videology a problem especially when you think of the quality and diversity if material that follows.

He seems humble to me and extremely capable. I also find his teaching style effective and accurate more so than a lot of other of their guests and tutors.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:29 PM
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AzHeat AzHeat is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
In Jared's defense, I find him to be good at what he does. He doesn't waste time by making any drummer interviews a platform for Jared Falk, he focuses on his guests. His questions don't slow the momentum, he is not a holdback to the show like some interviewers are. I for one appreciate the things he doesn't do. He seems very secure and doesn't need to make himself come off like... whatever. He's humble and can see past himself and I appreciate that. He's good at letting his guests feel comfortable and in charge.

As far as your reviews Mr. savage, it was very generous of you to take the time to chronicle your experiences and write it out so thoughtfully for others to learn from. It's deeds like this that makes this forum great. So thank you for your thoughtful review. I got a lot from it.
Agreed, and well stated...
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:20 PM
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Jared_Falk Jared_Falk is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Thank you for all the kind comments... But I promise I wasn't fishing for anything like that. I've been publishing videos online since around 2002-2003 and have been called everything under the sun, so it's nothing I haven't heard before.

In the past, the feedback given would really hurt as people say things in such a negative way when posting online. Rarely do people chat online like they'd chat to me in person. But I've gotten thick skin over the years.

That said, I LOVE all feedback, good or bad. I'd just sometimes prefer people give it more diplomatically and then it would more likely be heard.

As it relates to Online Lessons vs. Private Lessons...

Some of you have said that you can't compare the two, but I will disagree. Not because it's my opinion, but it's just a trend I'm seeing these days. When it comes to the adult learners (18+) people are beginning to prefer online lessons instead of private lessons. I believe that the market is the market, I don't determine what people are interested in, the general market does. So it could move in either direction in the coming years and I have some opinions on where it will go but this comment is already way too long. :)

But if anyone personally thinks that private lessons are much better for all types of drummers then share your opinion as it may help a drummer determine the best solution for them. At Drumeo, we launched a Drum Teacher Directory to help connect students with good private instructors, so I have nothing against private instruction.

Anyways, back to work for me. Thanks for reading!
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Old 12-29-2016, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Guys, I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I was simply providing a narrative of MY experiences and what MY preferences were/are. I stated right off the top that i am a beginner and that these are just my opinions...i am not an expert. Everyone learns differently and I don't mean to imply that one method is better than another...just commentating on what has worked for me for other people that may be looking for some comparison...like I was. My goals are also very different from other peoples goals...maybe I'll want to play some gigs when my kids are grown up, but for the time being I'm happy keeping on by myself working at my pace and doing what I think is fun. I think being engaged with other drummers is a great thing to do regardless...I go to clinics when I can, I know a few people that are into it that I talk to, I go to shows big and small to watch how others are doing it...Its not like taking lessons online means Im totally isolated from the rest of the world.

For the record, my in person teacher is regarded as one of the best in the country and is an awesome guy...I just didn't entirely jive with his teaching style; that's my issue, not his. I enjoyed every minute I spent with him, I just think I'm better off working through easier beginner stuff on my own and then branching out later when Im more confident. In fact I've often thought I would go back to him at some point once I feel like less of a newb lol.

Jared, thank you for chiming in. I think my wording is poorly chosen...I don't have any issue with you or your teaching style, in fact I've worked on a few of your lessons and found them fun and engaging...I simply meant that of the teachers I have followed you weren't my favorite, and that's totally Ok, everyone has preferences, I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me and it doesn't mean that you are a bad instructor in any way. Your video on setting up the kit was the very first video I watched, I appreciate all the free content you've put out there and I think you're playing is pretty kick ass. When you're the face of a company you're bound to take some heat...good on you for taking it in stride. Drumeo does have some aggressive marketing, I dont love it to be honest, but its marketing...I understand it. Other companies that offer great products have taken the same approach because it works. There has been a lot of negativity towards you and Drumeo on this site and I have always found it pretty unwarranted.

I just updated a couple things in my original post...I put a bit of a disclaimer at the top just to clarify my intentions with the post and I edited the Drumeo review a bit because I felt really bad about my wording there. Jared seems like a solid dude and I seriously meant no offense. Drumeo is an awesome product/brand.

Last edited by savage8190; 12-30-2016 at 01:25 AM.
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  #21  
Old 12-29-2016, 11:09 PM
BruceW BruceW is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by Jared_Falk View Post
Thank you for all the kind comments... But I promise I wasn't fishing for anything like that. I've been publishing videos online since around 2002-2003 and have been called everything under the sun, so it's nothing I haven't heard before.

In the past, the feedback given would really hurt as people say things in such a negative way when posting online. Rarely do people chat online like they'd chat to me in person. But I've gotten thick skin over the years.

That said, I LOVE all feedback, good or bad. I'd just sometimes prefer people give it more diplomatically and then it would more likely be heard.

As it relates to Online Lessons vs. Private Lessons...

Some of you have said that you can't compare the two, but I will disagree. Not because it's my opinion, but it's just a trend I'm seeing these days. When it comes to the adult learners (18+) people are beginning to prefer online lessons instead of private lessons. I believe that the market is the market, I don't determine what people are interested in, the general market does. So it could move in either direction in the coming years and I have some opinions on where it will go but this comment is already way too long. :)

But if anyone personally thinks that private lessons are much better for all types of drummers then share your opinion as it may help a drummer determine the best solution for them. At Drumeo, we launched a Drum Teacher Directory to help connect students with good private instructors, so I have nothing against private instruction.

Anyways, back to work for me. Thanks for reading!
Let me also thank you for chiming in here, and for the all the stuff you put out there for folks who aren't even members...that is greatly appreciated!

Everyone has an opinion, and that's a good thing. Not everyone will agree, and that too is good. I enjoy the content I've seen from your site, and I find it valuable, to me. To others, it might not be nearly as valuable. We are all at different levels of experience and ability, and some folks learn differently than others. Having Drumeo as an option is very valuable to drumming as a whole, along with all the other avenues the OP mentioned. And of course live instruction, too!

Cool stuff, everyone.
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Old 12-30-2016, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by Jared_Falk View Post
Thank you for all the kind comments... But I promise I wasn't fishing for anything like that. I've been publishing videos online since around 2002-2003 and have been called everything under the sun, so it's nothing I haven't heard before.

In the past, the feedback given would really hurt as people say things in such a negative way when posting online. Rarely do people chat online like they'd chat to me in person. But I've gotten thick skin over the years.

That said, I LOVE all feedback, good or bad. I'd just sometimes prefer people give it more diplomatically and then it would more likely be heard.

As it relates to Online Lessons vs. Private Lessons...

Some of you have said that you can't compare the two, but I will disagree. Not because it's my opinion, but it's just a trend I'm seeing these days. When it comes to the adult learners (18+) people are beginning to prefer online lessons instead of private lessons. I believe that the market is the market, I don't determine what people are interested in, the general market does. So it could move in either direction in the coming years and I have some opinions on where it will go but this comment is already way too long. :)

But if anyone personally thinks that private lessons are much better for all types of drummers then share your opinion as it may help a drummer determine the best solution for them. At Drumeo, we launched a Drum Teacher Directory to help connect students with good private instructors, so I have nothing against private instruction.

Anyways, back to work for me. Thanks for reading!
To add my 2 cents...

I recently got back into drumming after a huge amount of time away from a kit. Drumeo and all it's content has been a god send for me - there was nothing like this around in the late 90's when I was playing and having watched hours of lessons and snippets I can honestly say it has covered a vast amount of things and filled me with knowledge, some of it a refresher and some of it new.

The site is extraordinarily well run, from the studio sounds / cams to the content distribution. There are many youtube channels with great stuff on but I find the range and clarity of education from Drumeo unparalleled.

I don't understand why Jared would get any flak - he has clearly worked extremely hard over the years to build up Drumeo to what it is, and I for one am grateful as I get to sit at home and watch / learn from a variety of amazing players form the comfort of my bed or my kit. And I am not even an edge member!
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  #23  
Old 12-30-2016, 02:10 AM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by Boomka View Post
Thanks for this and saving me the time of typing something similar.
Thanks, you stated that better than me.

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Originally Posted by RIneuron View Post
Jared---
Keep on keeping on and ignore the haters.
No "haters" here. This is strictly about getting good information to people who want to learn how to play the drums.

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Originally Posted by Jared_Falk View Post
As it relates to Online Lessons vs. Private Lessons...

Some of you have said that you can't compare the two, but I will disagree. Not because it's my opinion, but it's just a trend I'm seeing these days. When it comes to the adult learners (18+) people are beginning to prefer online lessons instead of private lessons.
Since Boomka and I outlined some ways in which our services absolutely cannot be duplicated by any current online products, I'm not sure in what sense you mean they are comparable. Just because people mistakenly believe they are equivalent services, doesn't mean they actually are. That's the whole point.

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Originally Posted by savage8190 View Post
Guys, I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I was simply providing a narrative of MY experiences and what MY preferences were/are. I stated right off the top that i am a beginner and that these are just my opinions...i am not an expert. Everyone learns differently and I don't mean to imply that one method is better than another...just commentating on what has worked for me for other people that may be looking for some comparison...like I was.
No feathers ruffled, just giving additional information to help future readers put your reviews in proper perspective. And again, when you say something has "worked" for you, that can only mean that it worked to the best of your ability to judge as a 9-month-old drummer, and based only on a very short trial period. Assuming you've been using these products your entire drumming career, you're averaging less than 2 months per thing.
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:20 AM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

All I can say is..... the OP has spend quite a bit of coin in all kinds of lessons in only 9 months. Between a full time job, a family with 4 kids and watching all those lessons, when do you find the time for practice? I mean, some of those videos are 1 hour long...assuming you can dedicate 2 hours a day (which is probably a lot) to everything related to drumming, how much of that time is spent watching videos? Seems like you're trying to buy your way into learning.
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:49 AM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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No feathers ruffled, just giving additional information to help future readers put your reviews in proper perspective. And again, when you say something has "worked" for you, that can only mean that it worked to the best of your ability to judge as a 9-month-old drummer, and based only on a very short trial period. Assuming you've been using these products your entire drumming career, you're averaging less than 2 months per thing.
So because I have only been drumming 9 months I dont know anything? I've been listening to music my whole life...I played guitar for almost 10 years...but I dont know what good drumming is supposed to sound like and I need an instructor to hold my hand? You sound like a teacher who is bitter about losing business to the big bad internet.

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Originally Posted by fac View Post
All I can say is..... the OP has spend quite a bit of coin in all kinds of lessons in only 9 months. Between a full time job, a family with 4 kids and watching all those lessons, when do you find the time for practice? I mean, some of those videos are 1 hour long...assuming you can dedicate 2 hours a day (which is probably a lot) to everything related to drumming, how much of that time is spent watching videos? Seems like you're trying to buy your way into learning.
So because I wanted to try out different options and find what works best for me I'm "buying my way into learning"? How is doing what Im doing worse than paying way more for in-person lessons? Are those people who pay more for that "buying their way"? I guess shopping around for an in person instructor that works well with you would be frowned upon as well? Or is that ok?

I watch videos in my free time and I practice as much as I can...usually an hour or 2 a day. I dont watch TV, I dont have other hobbies, and as sad as it is I pretty much have no life outside of work and my kids....drumming is where I put my efforts.

Frankly I was super hesitant to post this to begin with because there is SOOOO many pessimistic attitudes on this forum. I have severely restricted my posting lately, and this is why. All I wanted to do was try to help out some new drummers and this is what I get, a big fuck you from a bunch of people who have nothing better to do than bitch.

I wish I could just delete this. This forum is a joke.
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Old 12-30-2016, 03:01 AM
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AzHeat AzHeat is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

You pretty much have to post knowing someone will find fault in what you said or how you said it on any forum. You did well in providing a great review of your personal deductions of various training options. that has already been said. Don't worry about the others. I found a fix for an overheating problem on my bike several years ago and got flack for it non-stop saying it wouldn't work, after I had run a full AZ summer without overheating. It's the Internet of Debbie Downers. Don't stop posting. I wish more would post details as you have.
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Old 12-30-2016, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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So because I wanted to try out different options and find what works best for me I'm "buying my way into learning"? How is doing what Im doing worse than paying way more for in-person lessons? Are those people who pay more for that "buying their way"? I guess shopping around for an in person instructor that works well with you would be frowned upon as well? Or is that ok?
No, it's not like that at all. But you have to understand that trying five different paid-for courses in only 9 months gives the impression that you might not be giving a fair chance to each course. Learning any instrument takes time, and even though the knowledge of one instrument might translate well towards other instruments, that is not the case for guitar and drums (for instance, I've tried very unsuccessfully to learn piano and guitar).

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I watch videos in my free time and I practice as much as I can...usually an hour or 2 a day. I dont watch TV, I dont have other hobbies, and as sad as it is I pretty much have no life outside of work and my kids....drumming is where I put my efforts.
I can relate to that because I also have a full time job (not related to music), two very demanding kids, and little time for music, which is a hobby I have invested very large quantities of time and money into. I'm currently on vacation and these days I can dedicate 1 or 2 hours a day to drumming. During working days... not as much. I've bought lots of gear thinking it will make me a better musician, when in fact all I need is to practice more.

I'm a self-taught drummer because there was no widespread internet when I started playing and I could not afford lessons. But I've recently discovered online lessons and I find that for every lesson I watch, I need to practice several hours. That's why it seems a bit unrealistic to me trying to follow so many different courses in such a short time.

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Originally Posted by savage8190 View Post
Frankly I was super hesitant to post this to begin with because there is SOOOO many pessimistic attitudes on this forum. I have severely restricted my posting lately, and this is why. All I wanted to do was try to help out some new drummers and this is what I get, a big fuck you from a bunch of people who have nothing better to do than bitch.

I wish I could just delete this. This forum is a joke.
I think you're overreacting. No one has said f* you and no one is bitching. If you read closely, people are only giving their honest advice, according to their own experience. People here *also* want to help out some new drummers, and that includes you and me (I consider myself new in many regards, such as gear and technique).
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Old 12-30-2016, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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I think you're overreacting. No one has said f* you and no one is bitching. If you read closely, people are only giving their honest advice, according to their own experience. People here *also* want to help out some new drummers, and that includes you and me (I consider myself new in many regards, such as gear and technique).
Not in a literal sense no, but I spent a long time writing that and there are several posts on here criticizing me and telling me I dont know what Im talking about. Thats a slap in my face. This forum is one of the worst I've seen for negative posts...its just not a positive community.

That said, this has inspired me to spend less time online (something Ive been wanting to do anyway) and not to waste my time with this forum anymore. So....thanks for that!
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Old 12-30-2016, 04:03 AM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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So because I have only been drumming 9 months I dont know anything? I've been listening to music my whole life...I played guitar for almost 10 years...but I dont know what good drumming is supposed to sound like and I need an instructor to hold my hand? You sound like a teacher who is bitter about losing business to the big bad internet.
Are you responding to me? I don't recognize anything of what I said in your statements here, but it seems like you must be. I don't know what your thinking is here, that you can post your opinions, but professionals can't? I don't get it. I haven't seen anything personal directed at you to warrant this kind of response.

Quote:
So because I wanted to try out different options and find what works best for me I'm "buying my way into learning"? How is doing what Im doing worse than paying way more for in-person lessons? Are those people who pay more for that "buying their way"? I guess shopping around for an in person instructor that works well with you would be frowned upon as well? Or is that ok?

I watch videos in my free time and I practice as much as I can...usually an hour or 2 a day. I dont watch TV, I dont have other hobbies, and as sad as it is I pretty much have no life outside of work and my kids....drumming is where I put my efforts.

Frankly I was super hesitant to post this to begin with because there is SOOOO many pessimistic attitudes on this forum. I have severely restricted my posting lately, and this is why. All I wanted to do was try to help out some new drummers and this is what I get, a big fuck you from a bunch of people who have nothing better to do than bitch.

I wish I could just delete this. This forum is a joke.
Sorry you're taking the generally very constructive comments here as some kind of personal slight. Last free pro tip I'll give you: change your attitude in the direction of growing up. You're not going to be right about everything. Every good drumming musician I've ever known has been really good at figuring out who knows more than him, and at recognizing good information when it's being handed to him. Do that more.
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Old 12-30-2016, 04:59 AM
bondaroo bondaroo is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Hey there, coming out of lurking to comment.

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I think most folks reading his review will understand that he might not be the best judge from a critical standpoint. He is giving us his experience coming from a beginners perspective. Most folks looking athese services are likely beginners themselves. More skilled and/or experienced players might not appreciate the methods taught, but that will also be coming from a more experienced position than the OP (or the target demographic for such services.) The cost comparisons are simply handy to have, if only to know what you're looking at before spending too much time investigating a service that might be out of your price range, or if it can be justified.

Thanks for the reviews.
This is where I'm at. I am the target market of online learning - adult beginner, looking for an enjoyable new hobby and not looking to become a pro. I have less than zero interest in taking lessons, for a variety of reasons.

The major reason is that I want to go at my own wildly variable pace, which is determined by adult life and my other hobbies, and can change week to week. I also don't want to invest the time, money and effort until I can find someone I click with.

I'm currently working my way through one of Drumeo's dvd packs. When I started I went looking for a plan, and looking at Youtube videos and random online resources were overwhelmingly confusing. I picked Drumeo out of the because I enjoyed the free I looked at, and I thought it was a reasonable price. I'm having a lot of fun and I like the way the lessons are organized.

I've gotten decent enough to play a couple of songs with my husband's band (he's a guitar player), and it's such a hoot.

I read this site to learn from people who, as the saying goes, have probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about drumming. I haven't waded in because I don't feel I have much to add as a rank newbie. And with that, back to lurking I go!
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Old 12-30-2016, 01:35 PM
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Bernhard Bernhard is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Savage190 asks to delete his account - if i do so all posts and threads like this one are removed - so i wait a moment....

JARED FALK DRUMEO:

I changed my opinion about the business model 10 years ago and now with Drumeo 100%.

He provides the greatest drummers and greatest Videos you can imagine - all the Top Shots in the business....
Just now we agreed about a kind of cooperation - so some Drumeo Videos are appearing from now on also an Drummerworld. The idea behind is: Enjoy these free videos and eventually start studying with Drumeo.

I wish you all a happy new year....

Bernhard
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Old 12-30-2016, 03:35 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
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Hey there, coming out of lurking to comment.

This is where I'm at. I am the target market of online learning - adult beginner, looking for an enjoyable new hobby and not looking to become a pro. I have less than zero interest in taking lessons, for a variety of reasons.

The major reason is that I want to go at my own wildly variable pace, which is determined by adult life and my other hobbies, and can change week to week. I also don't want to invest the time, money and effort until I can find someone I click with.

I'm currently working my way through one of Drumeo's dvd packs. When I started I went looking for a plan, and looking at Youtube videos and random online resources were overwhelmingly confusing. I picked Drumeo out of the because I enjoyed the free I looked at, and I thought it was a reasonable price. I'm having a lot of fun and I like the way the lessons are organized.

I've gotten decent enough to play a couple of songs with my husband's band (he's a guitar player), and it's such a hoot.

I read this site to learn from people who, as the saying goes, have probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about drumming. I haven't waded in because I don't feel I have much to add as a rank newbie. And with that, back to lurking I go!
Bondaroo, your review has really nailed an important point. Online lessons are fine, as long as they're used as a supplement to "real world drumming", i.e. playing with a band. If they've helped to give you the confidence to play in your husband's group, then great! Hopefully your husband has encouraged you as well.

The main critique of online videos is that they can't watch you play and tell you what you're doing right or wrong. They can't play drums along with you, and they can't pick up a guitar or bass, or sit at a keyboard, and jam with you. They can't encourage you directly, or remark at the progress you've made, or even smile at you with any authenticity. They can't applaud for your performances, or commiserate about difficult challenges. The claims by site owners or users, that equate online videos with in-person lessons or supervised band instruction, are wildly overstating the value of their videos. Their arguments possess the flawed logic of salesmanship and marketing campaigns.

Quote:
Deleted so no one else gets their panties in a twist.
Savage, you may not believe it, but TB and I (and other teachers and pros) are looking out for people like you, who are just beginning their drumming journey. Obviously, many users feel that online sites are worthwhile, and that is enough to justify their existence. But as a teacher, it's important to point out the distinctions, so that adults can make informed choices for their kids, or for themselves. I hope you add back your post; it was great, and it started a very intelligent and courteous discussion.
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  #33  
Old 12-31-2016, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Disappointed the OP has gone, very few people have the chance to experience such a wide range of options so it was definitely useful. Online tuition is here to stay, to compliment face to face tuition, and no personal experience or opinion can be 'wrong'. We should all be grateful for increased options we have, a good deal of it free. Before the internet I taught myself the Blushda by guesswork: it sounded almost identical but technically completely wrong. I now appreciate half the things I'm doing wrong (and the other half I'm in ignorance of :) ). Many online people are hugely inspiring and get you motivated.

I tried a taster lesson earlier in the year, first one in in almost 40 years, and I really enjoyed it. But I couldn't commit to their package of lessons (I work too many random lates in the office) plus I've no use for learning some of the styles in their preset curriculum. So, it's not for everyone. But I'd love to find the right tutor.
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:42 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Old 12-31-2016, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
Savage190 asks to delete his account - if i do so all posts and threads like this one are removed - so i wait a moment....

JARED FALK DRUMEO:

I changed my opinion about the business model 10 years ago and now with Drumeo 100%.

He provides the greatest drummers and greatest Videos you can imagine - all the Top Shots in the business....
Just now we agreed about a kind of cooperation - so some Drumeo Videos are appearing from now on also an Drummerworld. The idea behind is: Enjoy these free videos and eventually start studying with Drumeo.

I wish you all a happy new year....

Bernhard
Thank you so much, Bernhard!
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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[*]Actual face time with an expert teacher who is also a good communicator is just a completely different animal from these no-feedback or video feedback "lessons." For example: often I'll work with the student on specific technical issue for up to 30-45 minutes, involving many dozens or hundreds of information exchanges: him/her doing the thing and me assessing, correcting and refining, or making her do it another way, or jumping something else if I see that it will help her get the thing we're working on. It's a complex process. And it is impossible to duplicate that service with any video feedback product.[/list]
So, yeah. I don't think these services/products are really comparable. Using the sites is much more like just buying a bunch of drum books than it is like actually taking lessons.
This is important, imho. There is no better way, and a serious student should do whatever it takes to get real lessons. There is no substitute. And hey, what do you know, one of your local musicians gets some income, so it's all good. Real lessons are leaps and bounds ahead of all other methods.

Video lessons are imho better than books for some things because of video demonstrations, and I've dropped a few bucks here and there at mikeslessons.com and always felt the money was well spent when I had something I wanted to tune up. But I've also had enough private lessons to know how to get the benefit from video lessons, if you know what I mean.

I watch Youtube videos mainly for ideas and inspiration, for instance I watched Jo Jo Mayer's PASIC spot this morning, and he had some interesting things to say about contrast in orchestration. It just so happens it's something I needed to hear, right about now. There are two other cats I watch on Youtube now and again, one is called Aussiedrumnerd, and the other is the Orlando Drummer. Good, concise ideas, not much blather. I particularly like the Aussie vids where he says nothing, holds up a notepad with the notation, and then plays it at different speeds. I can check it out without having to hear a lot of stuff about blah blah blah.
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Savage190 asks to delete his account - if i do so all posts and threads like this one are removed - so i wait a moment....

JARED FALK DRUMEO:

I changed my opinion about the business model 10 years ago and now with Drumeo 100%.

He provides the greatest drummers and greatest Videos you can imagine - all the Top Shots in the business....
Just now we agreed about a kind of cooperation - so some Drumeo Videos are appearing from now on also an Drummerworld. The idea behind is: Enjoy these free videos and eventually start studying with Drumeo.

I wish you all a happy new year....

Bernhard
There's a Pat Petrillo Drumeo video out there on hand exercises that is very good. If someone's looking for a fresh group of exercises for the hands, I recommend it.
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Old 03-28-2017, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

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Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post

JARED FALK DRUMEO:

I changed my opinion about the business model 10 years ago and now with Drumeo 100%.

He provides the greatest drummers and greatest Videos you can imagine - all the Top Shots in the business....
Just now we agreed about a kind of cooperation - so some Drumeo Videos are appearing from now on also an Drummerworld. The idea behind is: Enjoy these free videos and eventually start studying with Drumeo.

I wish you all a happy new year....

Bernhard
I can't find the above referenced Drumeo videos ... anyone know where these videos are posted?
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Old 03-28-2017, 05:59 PM
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Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
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Default Re: For those looking for lessons (review of some online sites)

Well, I'm a Drumeo member.

I have no problem saying that the first products I picked up when I started drumming back in 2009 are pretty much crap. Much of the format in those "system" DVDs are still so much in conflict with anythng I represent as a teacher.

However.

The site today is a pretty amazing and awesome resource. There' so many great players, something for anyone and all sorts of things you can check out just for inspiration, open some new doors, get an intro to a new style. It's almost too much, so it takes some discipline to use it wisely.

Now we're just waiting for Vinnie, Phil, Dr. Gadd, Mr. Husband, Weckl, Panos, Sheila E, Terri Lyne.

I's personally like to see Ranjit Barot as well as a good step by step tabla course.

Actually, some other percussion stuff, anything from egg shakers to Surdo.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:13 PM
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Handle with caution. I notice they've been doing some stuff with real players lately, which is good, but the general "teaching method" of the site is extremely suspect. The philosophy seems to be break down all of drumming into hundreds of individual little single ideas, and then making videos of them. I'm sure it's well suited for creating subscribers, but it's really the exact opposite of musicianship.
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