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  #1  
Old 06-24-2011, 06:11 AM
Jim Mattingly Jim Mattingly is offline
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Default Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Anyone else out there besides myself place their hats at the 12 o'clock postion ? I have found that using a DW 9000 remote HH stand and placing my hats at the 12 o'clock position versus the standard 9-10 position has personally brought my playing to a higher level. I place my #1 tom at approx the 10 o'clock postion and it has really increased my speed and accuracy on certain fills. Another advantage I have found with the hats at 12 is that although very infrequent I have yet to have any stick hits especially when playing off time signatures/beats. Obviously my personal preference but curious if anyone else has experienced the same satisfaction from this change. I have been using this set up for probably 2 plus years now..
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Been centering my hats since 1998, first with a DW 5000 that always seemed a bit sluggish, and now with a DW 9000 that I've had for about three years now with no problems at all.

It's funny how I came upon the idea; I was visiting home in 1997 and when I dusted off the drums there was no more hi-hat (I had been borrowing one), so I set up my toms in a nice little semicircle around the snare, and realized I could stick a remote hat over those and still get to it easily. Shortly after that vacation, I bought a new set of drums and scored a cable hat to go with. I have never looked back. After thirteen years I'm not sure if I could go back to crossing my hands.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Yes I have my hi hat set at the 12 o'clock position as well. I actually got the idea from a more favored drummer of mine(chris guanlao). He is left handed but plays a right-handed kit. So he never crosses his hands! And I notice it gave him a lot of speed and freedom. So I played with it and now I'm in love with the position. On both my electric and acoustic sets I have the 12 position. Like the drummer I mentioned, this position gives us a lot of freedom to move the body and get the eyes on us drummers a lil more. Meaning, I can move my body more while playing. I love it! It very very comfortable and natural feeling. I switched my friend about a year ago and he loves it as well
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Someone please post a photo of the 12 o'clock hi hat configuration. I can't get this pictured in my mind. My placements always been at 10 o'clock whether one up or three up rack toms.





Thanks,
Dennis
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Fantastic...

Going to try this out.

I've always found standard high hat positioning really awkward
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
Someone please post a photo of the 12 o'clock hi hat configuration. I can't get this pictured in my mind. My placements always been at 10 o'clock whether one up or three up rack toms.
Like Dennis I'm not sure about hats at 12 o clock - to me, that's directly in front of the snare. I used to have my hats at 9, not it's more like 10. It means my arms cross a bit less.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
Someone please post a photo of the 12 o'clock hi hat configuration. I can't get this pictured in my mind. My placements always been at 10 o'clock whether one up or three up rack toms.

Thanks,
Dennis
Dennis, I think the guys are referring to a remote X hat style setup, operated by cable to the foot pedal. I'm guessing the hats are positioned directly ahead of the snare & over the toms.

I use an X hat setup to my right, but without foot pedal. It works very well for all manner of open handed stuff, but I think I'd find 16th hat to snare stuff a bit of a non productive learning curve. Who knows, maybe I'll give it a shot sometime :)
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I like the idea, but I'm always 50% aesthetic. You should look up this dude, DogBoots on Youtube, he has a PHX kit and plays openhanded and off set pedals. It's cool how he uses a clear snare batter head to be able to watch the foot work. :)
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

My hats are at about 10 oclock with my xhats at about 11 0clock.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I'd love to see pictures of the hi-hat at 12:00 too. My right arm (hi-hat arm) has been really bothering me lately and I think moving the hats may help with that, but I'm also having a hard time picturing it.
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  #11  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

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I'd love to see pictures of the hi-hat at 12:00 too. My right arm (hi-hat arm) has been really bothering me lately and I think moving the hats may help with that, but I'm also having a hard time picturing it.
Danny Carey

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Old 04-30-2012, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I didn't think he was referring to remote hi hats or he would have mentioned it ... ?

After all, most players who use remote hats put them 12 -1 o'clock so they don't cross hands as much.

12 o'clock with a regular hat stand would require a left leg made of rubber or at least serious gymnastic abilities combined with a penchant for masochism.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
12 o'clock with a regular hat stand would require a left leg made of rubber or at least serious gymnastic abilities combined with a penchant for masochism.
LOL!!!



... I guess a cable hat is a necessity for a main hi-hat at 12 o'clock :))


My main hi-hat is at 10 o'clock and my remote hi-hat is at 2 o'clock :)
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Mattingly View Post
I have found that using a DW 9000 remote HH stand and placing my hats at the 12 o'clock position versus the standard 9-10 position has personally brought my playing to a higher level.
Can you tell us why you think it's made an improvement in your playing?
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  #15  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:28 PM
Anthony Amodeo
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
I didn't think he was referring to remote hi hats or he would have mentioned it ... ?

After all, most players who use remote hats put them 12 -1 o'clock so they don't cross hands as much.

12 o'clock with a regular hat stand would require a left leg made of rubber or at least serious gymnastic abilities combined with a penchant for masochism.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Mattingly View Post
I have found that using a DW 9000 remote HH stand and placing my hats at the 12 o'clock position versus the standard 9-10 position has personally brought my playing to a higher level.
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
Someone please post a photo of the 12 o'clock hi hat configuration. I can't get this pictured in my mind.
It's kinda like this.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Bill Bruford, since the late 80's, was using 12 o'clock hihat. He was all about economy of movement, and challenged conventions. Sans masochism it of course requires a remote , as in the last post. If they a re at 12 o clock though means no hitting hats with left hand when right is doing something else, or also could be difficult for 16th note hat work?
Lots of things make great sense, but are unconventional. I have often thought to get the bass drum out of the way by moving to the right, keeping the pedal there and and using a bass pedal slave (like in a double pedal). Then all you toms right in front of you at whatever level you like.
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2012, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

After almost 2 decades of playing a normal hi hat stand and become increasingly frustrated with the limitations of crossing hands and/or sticks, I finally got a cable hat and went to 12 o`clock. I loved the set up, but hated the action. That's where my remote speedy hat came into play--since nothing worked to my liking I invented a new contraption with basically zero friction that is ridiculously fast.

Centering the hi hats made everything I already played instantly way easier and opened up endless new possibilities that would not have worked before (or at least would have been very uncomfortable). I'll never go back! When I sit in on a set with a normal hi hat stand I can play fine, but there are tons of things that I want to play but have to edit out because of the crossing traffic jam.

Playing open handed is certainly a step in the right direction, but there are still lots of patterns where you'll run into the same logistics problems (from crossing the other way).

Here are a couple bird's eye view pictures of set up examples:
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I set up in a way that looks just like Bill's above...

Snare - center

HH - 12 o'clock

Highest tom - 11 o'clock

next lowest - 1 o'clock

next lowest - 9 o'clock

Lowest(of the 4 toms) - 3 o'clock

...using a DW Remote HH that is clamped onto my snare stand.

Doing that since about 1995...one day I realized how silly it was to cross my arms to play a basic beat.

Took a while to get comfortable...but when I did it really shook up my playing.

e.g. I find more single hits to a tom in my playing where before I would tend to chase one hit with a hit from the other hand...a habit that grew from the 'standard' drum set config.

My single bass drum is placed off to the right as if I had 2 bass drums...as it is a bit hard to get HH at 12 and Bass drum centered below it...though I guess it could be done...18" or 20" bass would help...need to replace my 22".

didnt know Bill B. was doing that with his HH....

Last edited by Otto; 05-03-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I love this thread! I've always hated crossing my hands to play hats but couldn't pull off open handed playing well enough. You guys have given me a lot of things to work on...man Bill's setup looks great (I realize he isn't the first to do it...Bruford etc)

And the remote speedy hat? Not sure I've heard of it. I know the normal remotes tend to lag. Another thing to look into.
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  #21  
Old 07-29-2012, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Just received my brand-new Remote Speedy Hat from Bill Bachman last week, and reset my newly-restored acoustic kit with the hat at 12:00. My setup is now similar to Bill's upper photo above. I'd been playing my electronic kit set up this way for some time, as the E-kit hat pedal and trigger are completely independent of one another. I hadn't found a cable remote hat that I could tolerate, though, so the A-kit languished in the traditional 10:00 configuration that I'd played through the 70s and 80s- and basically gathered dust.

The Speedy Hat is just that: speedy. The action is completely indistinguishable from even the best straight stand. This is nothing like any of the bicycle-cable remote stands. Despite having played the 12:00 configuration on the E-kit, I still can't get over how much it liberates my hands on the A-kit: the A-kit and E-kit have always been such different beasts. This configuration definitely does open up possibilities for wholly different structures for fill patterns.

One other thing that I really love about the 12:00 configuration, with the rack toms low and somewhat flat (and moved off the bass drum and onto an independent rack), is that it really lends itself to a very close-in setup, similar to what can be achieved with an E-kit. Every instrument can be addressed with only minimal motion. The hat can be played with either hand by barely shifting up from the snare, the rack toms sneak in under the hat on each side, and in general there is vastly less motion and effort wasted in trying to reposition for the next instrument.

It makes for a much more natural flow, for me anyway, and that is _key_. Given that I've managed to tear the rotator cuffs in both shoulders in the past decade, this is just flat-out a lifesaver for me. This "getting-old" thing is getting old, man. I never imagined what it would be like being a 50something drummer... (;-) The fatigue from those old injuries was one reason that I have played primarily the E-kit for the past many years: thrashing around to reach all those things so far away, and crossing over, was just downright painful. I put 4 straight hours of practice in on the A-kit yesterday, for the first time in over 10 years, and I'm in freakin' heaven. *No pain*.

I realize that nobody knows me from Adam, but allow me to strongly recommend that any interested student at least give the 12:00 configuration a try. It literally can be a life-changing experience. Also, standard disclaimer applies: I have no relationship with Legacy Percussion and Bill Bachman other than as a *very* satisfied customer... And now, I'm gonna step away from the pooter, go down to the studio, and put in another few hours on my new old friend. Who knew?
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Last edited by skod; 07-29-2012 at 05:32 PM. Reason: correct typos...
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  #22  
Old 07-29-2012, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Mark Herron also played 12o'clock hats with Oceansize. His setup was quite weird.

I like to have secondary hats not out in front but to my right, just above my ride. To me it's a bit more natural because you're not having to reach and it leaves the space in front of you open for your other hand to move, should you want a rack Tom there.

My ex hats don't have a pedal though I'm not really interested in playing 2 hi hat pedals at this stage, I'm already having too much fun with all the new possibilities as it is. I definitely love having 2 hi hats, it's twice the fun.

:D
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I used to have a setup like Peart with a set of remote hats to the upper left of the ride, but found that over time it was just two more cymbals to lug and a weird, spindly Pearl RH2000 to pack as well. Sold it and just play standard overhand as I have for nearly 40 years.


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Old 07-31-2012, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I have a TD12 and so should be able to move my hats closer to 11 oclock at least. I can't wait to give it a go. I've never really found a happy position for my acoustic kit hats so this should be a fun experiment.

Thanks for the heads up.

Davo
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

You'll love it Davo...

I have E Drums and have the hi hat at around 11pm if I sit forward facing the toms....but sit off to my left so the hi hat ends up practically at 12pm...

I used to REALLY struggle with hi hats I think through a combination of my size and height, and also bad practice....I'm now literally 100% comfortable behind my kit.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Oh what fun.

Here's my revised set-up. It's so different and really versatile ... I can just reach the hihat under the snare (as there is no stand) and even having the smallest tom to the left adds to the options.

Brilliant.

Davo
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

To contrast here is my normal acoustic set-up ...
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I've been playing drums off-and-on for about six years now and I'm still struggling with the placement of those damn hats. I've tried to put them as far to the 12 o' clock position as I could, but, not having a remote hihat pedal, I didn't get too far. I play trad exclusively, which I don't think helps matters either, as it puts a stick on top of the bottom hand and on the bottom of the top hand, whereas with matched you at least have a hand in between the sticks. A remote hat may very well be my next purchase...
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

I just recently got a Remote Speedy Hat and have been playing with this setup question, and I must say that I love it. I don't have a lot of basis for comparison (being something of a newbie), but certainly the Remote Speedy Hat feels as tight and responsive, if not more so, than the traditional DW stand that I had before. But the best thing is that pedal placement and hat placement are now separate things, so I can put them each where it feels most comfortable.

Honestly, it's amazing to me that this type of thing isn't the standard. I mean, here it is, 2012, and the vast majority of kits are still constrained to have the hats straight above the pedal. Why? We have the technology to separate them. Is it tradition? Do people feel that straight above the pedal is really the ideal position? Obviously, to each his or her own, but personally, I think it makes sense to separate the two, and I'm benefiting from having the freedom to place the hats wherever feels best (and for me, that's not straight above the pedal).

- Bobby
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

hey guys, how do you get the Hats at 3 o'clock (lefty) and not have the Hat pedal change your sitting position? Seems If I do that, my left leg position is good, but hihat pedal is bringing my right leg 90 degrees or less. I guess I'm confused about the configuration.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Ronyd, I thinking they're using the snare drum as the main point of reference. Otherwise variables such as the bass drum facing forwards with you sitting to the side, or you facing forward with the bass drum pointing to the side a bit cloud the issue.

It boils down to having the hi hat where the hands and/or sticks cross or where they do not cross.

Here's an example of playing with the hats at 12 o`clock with the remote speedy hat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKxNL...feature=relmfu
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Here is my setup. It's a Roland and has smaller pads but does the job right!
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Roland Rd-15 with converted and shortened 22" bass drum. Zildjian L80 low volume cymbals. Hi Hat at 9 position above snare. Used a trick remote hi hat cable
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Hi Hat Placement - 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBachman View Post
Centering the hi hats made everything I already played instantly way easier and opened up endless new possibilities that would not have worked before (or at least would have been very uncomfortable). I'll never go back! When I sit in on a set with a normal hi hat stand I can play fine, but there are tons of things that I want to play but have to edit out because of the crossing traffic jam.
To be truly thorough with this approach, you'd really have to setup a full mirror or you'll always end up with crossing. Two identical rides, two of each cymbal, full drum mirror on both sides with identical tuning between sides. Sounds like a lot of work, and I don't mind crossing that much that I'll just keep my kit small and lean, easy to setup and easy for others to play as well.

Last night I actually had my first go on a kit with two hats one either side, and two floor toms on either side... The hats I could take or leave, it was kinda fun, but I didn't feel any more "free"... More like I just used the two different hat sounds creatively when it struck me. The floor toms on either side was awesome though. Never did like two floors side by side, too much twisting.
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