DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 03-08-2017, 03:40 PM
WallyY WallyY is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston, US
Posts: 1,778
Default Room modes and mic placement

Since a few months ago when I started getting into the swing of recording I've been experimenting with all sorts of mic placements to see what works the best in my small room.

I tried all the standard placements and settled on the Weathervane technique for what I thought sounded best, but my 10" tom was not sounding as good as from where I sat. At the seat, my 10" was full with a long sustain, but recorded it was flat and without much fundamental.

When I started moving my head around the set and hitting drums I found out that the drum will sound really good in one spot and really bad only a few inches away.

When I moved the mics to fit with where they sound the best to my ears, they also sounded the best recorded.

so now I have one sdc behind my left back at chest height, another over the ride next to the wall and pointing at the the lower toms at head height and a ribbon four feet above the set over the ride pointing and at the snare. All the mics are the same distance from the snare.

It's a big difference and now the snare is full but not as loud as before and the toms are very full sounding.

It goes to show that in a small room of about 11x16 feet with strange angled walls, the room will make all kinds of cancellations of sound and will dictate where the mics sound best.

It obviously doesn't sound as good as a real studio room, but I think it's working well for me now.

I really enjoy experimenting like this and finding ways to do it better!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:05 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 5,685
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

Would love to hear your results. The main issue of multi-mic overhead setups is that you end up with a sweet spot, and that instruments outside the spot have varying levels of collateral damage due to phase. I'm glad you found something that worked.

Does it sound good in mono?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:42 PM
Tommy_D's Avatar
Tommy_D Tommy_D is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,370
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

Heres a video with lots of different ways to set up overheads. Some that you may not think make sense, but may sound good for your setup.

https://youtu.be/wbM5mFEKtw8
__________________
Tommy D's Drums
Cymbals for Sale
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:56 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,562
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

I wonder if mic placement would be a lot easier if we could see the soundwaves.

If that were possible, I can imagine being able to visually see where the mic would sound best, by reading the pressure waves and notice where they are converging and also making voids.

I wonder if there is any way to make the actual soundwaves visible?

That would have major usefulness in many areas.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-08-2017, 07:37 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 5,685
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_D View Post
Heres a video with lots of different ways to set up overheads. Some that you may not think make sense, but may sound good for your setup.

https://youtu.be/wbM5mFEKtw8
Ryan, in that vid, is a godsend... An audio engineer who is an actual drummer.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:19 PM
cbphoto's Avatar
cbphoto cbphoto is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Möbius Strip
Posts: 739
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyY View Post
. . . When I moved the mics to fit with where they sound the best to my ears, they also sounded the best recorded.

so now I have one sdc behind my left back at chest height, another over the ride next to the wall and pointing at the the lower toms at head height and a ribbon four feet above the set over the ride pointing and at the snare. All the mics are the same distance from the snare.

It's a big difference and now the snare is full but not as loud as before and the toms are very full sounding. . . .
While experimenting, try to keep your overheads in phase with the snare. It will make it sound much better.

Once you get that down, get the overheads in phase with both the snare and kick. It's a fun exercise that'll make your kit sound great.

https://youtu.be/wbM5mFEKtw8
https://youtu.be/k3Bk9lb2sx4
__________________
~ CB
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:41 PM
WallyY WallyY is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston, US
Posts: 1,778
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

All three overheads are equidistant from the snare.
The phase of the snare is reversed.
I don't think I can get the overheads far enough away from the snare and kick to do better. The ceiling is 9'.

Larry, there is a site where you can input your room dimensions and it shows the convergence of reflections.
I'll see if I can find it later. It's pretty cool, but it showed my room as having all sorts of nodes.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-08-2017, 11:09 PM
MoreBeer's Avatar
MoreBeer MoreBeer is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 531
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

FWIW, the most dramatic improvement I recently implemented was using a room mic. And it's not setup in a typical location. About 6' in front of the kit, dead center at a height which is just below the top of the rack toms. Just a little movement left, right, higher, further away makes a huge difference. The spot its in now seems like the sweet spot. At least for now, in my room, as its set up. This may change as I'm making changes to the ceiling and walls.

On another note, my dynamic mics suck. In fact, I'm thinking about dumping the dynamics aside from the kick and snare mic and go with small condensers such as Audix F-90's on the toms.
__________________
The road to success and the road to failure are almost exactly the same.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-09-2017, 01:18 AM
WallyY WallyY is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston, US
Posts: 1,778
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

Here's one of the calculators that show where the frequencies are loudest.
http://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators...igenmodes.html

And another that is really cool.
http://amroc.andymel.eu/?l=18&w=13.5...t=true&r60=0.6
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-11-2017, 04:39 AM
WallyY WallyY is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston, US
Posts: 1,778
Default Re: Room modes and mic placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Would love to hear your results. The main issue of multi-mic overhead setups is that you end up with a sweet spot, and that instruments outside the spot have varying levels of collateral damage due to phase. I'm glad you found something that worked.

Does it sound good in mono?
It sounds similar in mono.
After listening again, I'm still missing a lot of the 10" tom tone.
I'll keep moving the mics and or drums, but I'm thinking of switching out the 10 for a 13.

Here's a link to the unprocessed mics. two pencils and a ribbon overhead and snare and kick.
The file will be up for about a month and then I'm chucking it.

https://soundcloud.com/wyoung/mic-placement-test36
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com