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  #1  
Old 02-01-2017, 12:45 AM
Michael Madio Michael Madio is offline
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Default Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

I'm a huge Steve Jordan fan but I just don't get his endorsement deals with Yamaha and Paiste.

He plays Ludwig drums in the studio, when he talks about the Yamaha Club Customs he asked Yamaha for 3-ply drums with a swirl finish (essentially Ludwigs) and his tone suggests he was just okay with the 4 ply Club Custom shells.

He plays Paiste cymbals but wants them to sound like his personal collection of old Zildjian K's, specifically ones played by Elvin Jones.

So he really wants vintage Ludwig drums and vintage Zildjian cymbals but he endorses Yamaha and Paiste ... shouldn't he be with Ludwig/Zildjian instead?
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Old 02-01-2017, 01:01 AM
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alparrott alparrott is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Madio View Post
I'm a huge Steve Jordan fan but I just don't get his endorsement deals with Yamaha and Paiste.

He plays Ludwig drums in the studio, when he talks about the Yamaha Club Customs he asked Yamaha for 3-ply drums with a swirl finish (essentially Ludwigs) and his tone suggests he was just okay with the 4 ply Club Custom shells.

He plays Paiste cymbals but wants them to sound like his personal collection of old Zildjian K's, specifically ones played by Elvin Jones.

So he really wants vintage Ludwig drums and vintage Zildjian cymbals but he endorses Yamaha and Paiste ... shouldn't he be with Ludwig/Zildjian instead?
The equipment part of an endorsement is not the whole story. Oftentimes the relationship that an artist and an artist relations manager with a certain company is what engages and retains talent, and the gear is (believe it or not) a secondary concern. Notice how many artists moved from Zildjian to Sabian at about the same time when a certain artist relations staffer moved.

This also applies to artist support in terms of clinics, tours, etc. If one company won't work with you on getting you the gear you need, where you need it, and the other will, the choice becomes clearer.

Also, one thing that plagued Ludwig for a while was mediocrity. Their hardware was not great, their product line stayed the same for years on end, and it wasn't easy to get artist support. Yamaha was far more innovative over those same twenty years, and put a lot of time and effort into artist relations.

Finally, sometimes the artist asks for something the one company won't provide but the other company gladly will. Ginger Baker switched from Ludwig to DW because he wanted his bass drums cut down to 12" depths and Ludwig wasn't willing to do it -- but DW whipped out the saws and said "Let's do it".
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Old 02-01-2017, 01:11 AM
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opentune opentune is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Hmmm, not sure where you're getting your info, one certainly sees him using PAistes in the studio, and some Yamaha drums here and there in studio too. One can love vintage and new stuff at the same time.
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:18 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

I think Steve is big enough that he can pretty much use whatever he wants. There are photographs of him playing an old Trixon conical kit when he and the Verbs came out to Los Angeles a year ago for some Guitar Center thing. But I agree with his staying with Yamaha - that company is big enough that he can get whatever he needs from them wherever he is - that would be a major consideration to stay with a company if you were playing so much your main drum company can get stuff to the venue for you.
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:48 AM
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Chunkaway Chunkaway is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Madio View Post
I'm a huge Steve Jordan fan but I just don't get his endorsement deals with Yamaha and Paiste.

He plays Ludwig drums in the studio, when he talks about the Yamaha Club Customs he asked Yamaha for 3-ply drums with a swirl finish (essentially Ludwigs) and his tone suggests he was just okay with the 4 ply Club Custom shells.

He plays Paiste cymbals but wants them to sound like his personal collection of old Zildjian K's, specifically ones played by Elvin Jones.

So he really wants vintage Ludwig drums and vintage Zildjian cymbals but he endorses Yamaha and Paiste ... shouldn't he be with Ludwig/Zildjian instead?
I'm also a huge Steve Jordan fan, but I would say he has an affinity for vintage kits more than a particular brand. I have seen him play Rogers, Trixon, as well as Ludwig.

As far as the use of cymbals in the studio, I have seen him use a wide variety of cymbals, but mostly Paistes. Yes, he has used vintage Zildjians, but I have seen pictures where he has a mix of Zildjian, Paiste, and UFIP. In the studio, it is anything goes as long as it sounds good.

As far as live goes, I tend to think the Club Customs work for some situations but not all. I know he has used them live, but he has also used Maple Customs as well. In the videos I have seen on Youtube where he speaks about his Club Customs, he always seem to be speaking very positively about them. I know he was frustrated that they weren't 3 ply, but other than that, he seems to dig the sound.
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Old 02-01-2017, 04:18 AM
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lefty2 lefty2 is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

I remember reading in Modern Drummer mag. yrs ago drummers saying the most important thing was reliable gear, and getting replacement gear out to them. I believe Phil Ehart from Kansas said that's why he went from Ludwig to Yamaha. Something else he said was "a drum was a drum". He needed support from the company and Yamaha gave him that.
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2017, 05:18 AM
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drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Madio View Post
So he really wants vintage Ludwig drums and vintage Zildjian cymbals but he endorses Yamaha and Paiste ... shouldn't he be with Ludwig/Zildjian instead?
No, he shouldn't. He plays all sorts of equipment. For new stuff, he prefers Yamaha and Paiste. Ludwig's latest stuff bears little resemblance to their classic stuff (aside from the snares). And Paiste's stuff is just downright crazy good.
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Old 02-01-2017, 04:48 PM
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mikyok mikyok is online now
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

A drummer who is that sought after for 30+ years will have that many kits/snares/cymbals by different manufacturers it doesn't even bare thinking about.

An endorsement is just that, especially when you're at the top of your game. When you're on the road if you have big labels on the drums and cymbals the companies who make them will give you free gear and pay you for the free marketing and make sure you're well looked after. That's a sweet deal where I'm from!

For the kind of sessions he does I'm thinking the drum doctor probably provides the kit as the producer will have a sound in mind most of the time
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:15 AM
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PHIL2016 PHIL2016 is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Product availability I say too, maybe that's why Vinnie Colaiuta left Ludwig so stinking fast...
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2017, 12:08 PM
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Juniper Juniper is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

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Originally Posted by PHIL2016 View Post
Product availability I say too, maybe that's why Vinnie Colaiuta left Ludwig so stinking fast...
That was indeed a strange one, has Vinnie ever revealed why he jumped ship so quickly? About a year wasn't it?
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2017, 08:33 AM
moxman moxman is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

He's been a Paiste fan for a really long time.. like since the 70's - using a variety of setups but mainly traditionals and signatures. Those cymbals are top of the heap IMHO.. I've never heard him say anything about Zildjan K's (which I love and use also). Did you hear it in an interview?

He definitely is a gear connoisseur.. and a main inspiration!
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2017, 03:54 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
One can love vintage and new stuff at the same time.
That's one aspect of why an endorser uses a different brand: the endorsed company doesn't offer a particular item, such as a vintage shell, a specific snare, or a certain cymbal (which is definitely the case with Paiste!)

I'm a bit guilty of this when I felt it was necessary. Specifically, when I endorsed Impact drums, they only offered a fiberglass snare. They were great snares, and very versatile, but when I needed an ringy, sharp, obviously metal shell sound for a track, I'd use one of the other brands for the song(s) in question. But good luck finding a picture of me with the non-endorsed brand!

The same thing happened occasionally with cymbals. Although I've endorsed Sabian since 1993, they never had a classic '60s Zildjian sound back in the day. Even Zildjian didn't offer it before fairly recently. So in town, I quietly used my old '50/60s Zildjians. Eventually, with Sabian's Vault series, I found that sound I loved for my blues & oldies gigs, and I changed them all out*. Ever since, I've been using Sabian, exclusively, for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
A drummer who is that sought after for 30+ years will have that many kits/snares/cymbals by different manufacturers it doesn't even bare thinking about.

An endorsement is just that, especially when you're at the top of your game.
And that's why an artist can (sometimes) get away with being seen with the non-endorsed brand. Their name has significant influence, and the company looks the other way, rather than lose the endorsement altogether. I like Steve Jordan, but I don't regard him as having that much influence, but Yamaha USA is apparently fine with it. It's a common case of the good outweighing the bad and, let's face it, business is business.

In both cases, I don't think it's cool to be pictured with the other product, even if it's vintage and the brand is long-gone and there's no obvious detriment to the current company. There's no reason to create the question that the artist might not really love the endorsed brand as much as he claims. Are credibility and ethics important to the young drummers out there who see these other brands? No, not so much. But it's very important to the next company the artist wants to sign with. There are a handful of artists who can get away with it, and there are a few companies that don't care, as long as they have that name on their roster.

Bermuda


* Sorry, my Zildjians, Paistes, Istanbuls etc are not for sale at this time.

** New abbreviation: In My Professional Opinion
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Last edited by bermuda; 02-05-2017 at 08:21 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2017, 12:00 AM
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RockNGrohl RockNGrohl is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Here's what I often see, especially with the top drummers: They endorse certain brands and use them on tour in front of the cameras, but in the studio they use whatever works for the track, new or vintage. In Chad Smith's latest drum video he talks about his relationship with Pearl. They made a new line of drums and sent them to Chad for the new Chilli Pepper's record. (At the time it was Stadium Arcadium.) They got set up, tried out, and in the end he decided his vintage Gretsch drums sounded better. He used the new Pearl line on tour. But then Pearl did an ad saying the drums are so great that is why the album was so good, because Chad used them exclusively. But yet he didn't at all. he them a fair shot and changed his mind on them. It can be tricky.
I know Kenny Aronoff loves his Tama's but has a HUGE collection of snares of all types. Plus some companies are so unique, that sound can only come from their drums. But I think if a drummer endorses a brand they should try to be seen with them. Or if they use a lot of different stuff they shouldn't get an exclusive endorsement. I see creative guys like Bill Buford and Jay Bellerose who will use many brands of things in order to get a cool sound. New, vintage, custom, whatever.. They may have a brand they endorse for tour support, but are free to use whatever they want to add in. I think that is the way to go.
Also if your valuable enough to your brand I bet they will make you whatever you want, even if they have to get acrylic shells or exotic woods form other suppliers. Any custom finish can be painted, and they will bend over backwards to make it happen. But if a company wants you to use gear you don't dif, change companies or be independent.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2017, 06:51 PM
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mrmike mrmike is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Then there is Steve Gadd. His set up and snare have changed a bit over the years but it seems he plays HIS set up for everything. If he wants more ring from the snare he just takes the dampening ring off and calls it good. Maybe his cymbals have changed but I believe he made the session line work for quite a while.
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:21 PM
Woolwich Woolwich is offline
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Default Re: Steve Jordan - Yamaha / Paiste Endorsements?

Mark King ( bass player of Level 42 ) has had a stack of signature model bass guitars made for him over the years by numerous manufacturers, there's even a video of him kicking around where he starts from the beginning, the video fades to black, and 'hours later' he's still banging on about signature gear from other manufacturers. :-)
The difference with him though is that he's never signed an exclusivity deal but if someone has approached him with an offer to make a guitar, he's been happy to play it IF it fitted what he was after and for as long as/for the songs that it fitted. Ditto for his amp rig and pedals.
He's never jumped ship ( because he was never fully on anyone's ship in the first place ) or made superlative claims about what he moved to compared to what he moved from. The end result is that no one has been left thinking that Status bass guitars are better than Jaydee guitars are better than Alembic guitars. Not better, just different, and if you see him using anything you can be quite certain that he's doing so because it works for him and is quality gear, not because there's a big financial deal behind it. It also means that all brands he's been linked with benefit by association, the fact that his basses from over 35 years ago are seen hanging on his studio walls when he posts any videos helps towards this.
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