It's hardly obtuse to point out hypocrisy in someone's position. If that pro-boxer attacks other pro-boxers for taking the same route through his career as he did, then he's a hypocrite. Attack the promoters, the king makers, the managers etc. Not the boxers. You have constantly and consistently attacked other musicians on this thread. Which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion.
Listen, no-one would argue with you that the situation is unfair, and that musicians are being taken advantage of, and that there are venues and promoters who are complete bastards. As you rightly say, that's always been the case. But you didn't come on here pointing the finger at THEM. You came on firing bullets at people in bands who play for free. Like you did, when you were a fledgling trying to make your way up.
It's called 'pulling the ladder up after you've climbed it' over here. Like you say, it's a very longstanding industry. If what you're saying is true then hobbyists and rising musicians have always had the same challenge. If you feel so strongly about it why didn't YOU make the fricking stand 30-40-50 years ago. Why should 'we' now make the stand because YOU didn't.
And my final word on this. It's pretty lamentable to see someone going into full blown victim mode as you seemingly have now done, when it was you and you're pretty forthright approach and attitude which has gotten under people's skins. Let me remind you it was you, in your earlier posts, who went medieval on all musicians who play for free. Not the promoters and venues, you were attacking other fellow musicians. Quite disrespectfully actually. I won't quote passages, but read back. It's all in print. Directed at musicians ON THIS FORUM.
If you want to adopt that tone then I'll gladly box with you and take whatever blows come my way with a smile and a shrug, but don't you go crying when the heat in the kitchen got too high for your liking after you set the fire.
This is like Groundhog Day. No victim mode. I was laughing at the absurdity of it, not going for the sympathy vote. Unlike you, I'm not back tracking and pretending that I didn't mean what I said, "I didn't mean it as a insult or slight...sorry" Slurp slurp. Bullshit you didn't. Take your blows with a smile and shrug huh?
Anyway, go back and read the damn posts. Find the passages of me going 'constantly and consistently medieval' on all musicians who play for free. I've constantly and consistently explained time and time and time again, and you keep deliberately misunderstanding and taking it out of context.
Venues get away with what they can because of musicians who are willing to do it when they don't need to and damn well shouldn't. That's one of the biggest problems. Read and comprehend. I've said it over and over. That's not attacking musicians, that's explaining a problem and the root cause. You're just looking at the end result and pretending it all comes from venues and promoters alone, because you simply refuse to admit you're part of it.
I did take a stand. Every time I played. That's the difference. If it didn't work and didn't matter too much, I let it go. If it did matter, then I didn't play or I got paid. Every time. Go back and read again. You don't even try when you could and should. I tried. If everyone tried, even if it was for peanuts, a meal, $50 each, venues would be a hell of a lot easier to deal with for everyone concerned. Not professionals, but everyone.
Yes, that's the fault of us that don't even try to get something when you easily could. Venues will happily exploit musicians, because too many, particularly at the grassroots level are so damn happy to be exploited and will fight tooth and nail to say "it's my right to play for free if I want! I care not about anyone but my right to play!"
It is your right, just don't expect gratitude and platitudes when someone says you're doing music and musicians a disservice. The funny thing is you agree with the symptom, but not the cause of it and just assume I'm
attacking musicians, violently going medieval constantly against everyone here...we are the cause. The venues taking advantage of it is just the symptom. If you call that reasoning attacking musicians with a medieval lunacy, well, whatever. I can't help that.
Before you come back...remember something. This is all in relation to, and in the context, of a reply to someone saying they play a long term weekly pub for free and don't care about getting paid. That's when you should care and it
does hurt other musicians trying to get paid doing those gigs. Originals, one offs, young guys doing battle of the bands, just getting experience...that is different. You should still try to get something if the situation calls for it, but if you can't because of lack of crowds or whatever fine. When you're playing an established gig for a venue on a weekly basis, that's not fine. Or if you do an original thing and bring a big crowd, the venue makes a profit, so you should get something back too. It helps everyone. I've said that over and over from the damn beginning. But this is in context of my reply to that post and I've kept it in context with repeated explanations. You guys kept taking it out. Leave the context where it was intended to be.