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  #1  
Old 07-18-2014, 03:38 PM
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Default Name that rhythm

I love all the terminology that goes with drums and music. Making a thread that names all the beats/rhythms we can think of would be a pretty cool resource.

It would also raise some good discussion I bet.

I'll start off with a rhythm that I don't know a lot about, the Boogaloo beat. My initial thought that this is the beat that Gene Krupa used on "Sing Sing Sing". You know that jungle tom thing. Only I'm not sure if that is Boogaloo. I had this discussion with my band leader and he was stumped. He seems to think it is the beat on that song "Boogaloo on Broadway", which is nothing like a jungle tom thing. So I really don't know what the Boogaloo beat is supposed to sound like. Any help would be appreciated.

I'd love to see this as a thread that names, outlines, goes into the history of, and maybe even posts examples of all the different rhythms that we as drummers should be aware of.

Anybody want to play?
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

Great thread idea, Larry. Bo did a nice piece on different rhythms every drummer should know a while back. Things like bossa nova and such. I think he even demonstrated how to play each groove.

I think you should lead the way with an essay on various blues shuffles. There always seems to be disagreement about what each variation is actually called.
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:49 PM
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

Interesting thread on Boogaloo: http://www.drummagazine.com/lessons/...ogaloo-factor/

Ants linked to this in a thread about Boogaloo a couple years ago. Here it is again.

Sounds like it's basically the drum and bass stuff.
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

I don't have the time right this second Lar, gotta go to work, but I will later on.

I must have missed Bo's thread.

I am envisioning a thread naming about a hundred or more different rhythms, with some background info if possible.

So name a rhythm, perhaps point to it in a popular song, and if you have any other pertinent info about your rhythm(s), enlighten us all.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:40 AM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

I'll start with the obvious one:

Bo Diddley beat (any Bo Diddley song, like Who Do You Love)
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Old 07-19-2014, 01:42 AM
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

I hear tons of inspiring rhythms all the time. I'm not sure many of them have names as such. of course, many do, it's just that I'm ignorant in that department :(

Our artist George Cook constantly surprises & pleases me with his rhythm repertoire. Not stuff I've heard elsewhere, & certainly with his flavour all over them. Maybe they've been done before, maybe not, maybe just adjusted and adapted. Sorry, I'm a pretty useless resource in this thread :(

Edit: example - http://youtu.be/eQQwo_bv_N4?t=1m14s

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Old 07-19-2014, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

The first time I heard "Boogaloo" was, (I'm hesitant to say) on Eazy-E's "Eazy Duz it". Then later on as an adult looked it up. :> Am I the only one?
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Old 07-19-2014, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

Larry, an annoying friend of mine started a thread exactly like this about 5 years ago :) http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54128
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

I want to know the name, slang or official, for the high hat thing .... xxX xxX xxX xxX..... with the HH opening briefly on the capital X



And, for my contribution, I will add The Charlie Watts skip the 3 and 7 HH. We can call it the noh3/7...or maybe the JBL (just being lazy)? It's not really a beat, but it's a thing.

I had been playing it forever and didn't know it was a thing until the internet informed me.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

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And, for my contribution, I will add The Charlie Watts skip the 3 and 7 HH. We can call it the noh3/7...or maybe the JBL (just being lazy)? It's not really a beat, but it's a thing.
I'd still call it a money beat, just that he's playing linearly with his hands.
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:05 PM
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2014, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

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I want to know the name, slang or official, for the high hat thing .... xxX xxX xxX xxX..... with the HH opening briefly on the capital X
Haha, Tommy Igoe calls this "pea pea soup", expanding on his "pea soup" explanation for the sound of disco hats.

I would like to add the Bossa Nova drum beat to this, think "Girl from Ipanema"
http://youtu.be/SROlcFnq-Do

Love this beat.
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

Money Beat (think Bille Jean)
Four-on-the-Floor
Bolero Beat (the Cream intro to White Room)
Jezebel Beat (...nah juts kiddin' on that one)
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

in a couple big bands I worked with .... when half timing an ending ... ya know, kinda "bringin' it home" swinging hard and crashing with a snare on 2 & 4 with sort of a NY/NY feel ending ...."its up to you (crash) , new (crash) york..." ....they would call it .... the strip ... or the strip beat.
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Money Beat (think Bille Jean)
Also in the original of Knock on Wood

I've been doing a bunch of 60s soul beats lately, studying the likes of Al Jackson, Carl Cunningham. There's:

* Motown beat (I play it 4 on the floor plus 8ths)
* All 8ths on the BD (bits of Soul Man, Road Runner)
* 4 on the floor (I can't turn you loose - or at least I play it that way)
* What became a standard rock beat - bum-ch-bumbum-ch (Midnight Hour)
* Then a bunch of variants of what I just call "the soul beat" - bum-ch-bumbum-ch-bum - that can have added snare ghost (Hold on I'm coming), added hat lift (Mustang Sally) or as-is (Harlem Shuffle)
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Old 07-20-2014, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

how about the swing/straight groove

a la DJ Fontana with Elvis or Earl Palmer with Little Richard
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Larry, an annoying friend of mine started a thread exactly like this about 5 years ago :) http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54128

Completely forgot about this, and you're right, your friend is annoying lol. When I did this thread, I wondered if I had done it before, but it was actually you. It sounded familiar and I was just waiting to get busted by someone.

Still, you have to admit, that by all counts, my thread is better than yours :P.
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

Great thread idea, Larry! How about New Orleans Funk
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:00 PM
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how about the swing/straight groove

a la DJ Fontana with Elvis or Earl Palmer with Little Richard
You mean where the beat is like straight kick but swung (or shuffled?) ride or hi hat or bass drum hoop?

I remember reading somewhere once that the "swung" part of the beat was what put the "roll" in rock and roll. Sounds right to me.

Did you coin the term swing/straight groove or is that an old term?

Ant, your opinion please...recently we have been doing John Mayer's version of "After Midnight"...Mayer did it on Seth Meyers a little bit ago...It's a slowed down greasier version compared to Clapton's version. Steve Jordan plays on it and he is basically playing a money beat with that famous SJ chicken grease feel for the meat of the groove, straight feel. Anyway, my bandleader asked me to "swing it". Which to me meant doing a half time shuffle, which is what he must have been thinking of, because he's apparently happy with it. So my question, in your mind, what is the difference between swing and shuffle? Or anyone who has an opinion. The "skip beat" is a dotted figure, right? So a swing and a shuffle are related but a shuffle is all "skip" beats and swing stuff mixes them up with non dotted notes. Is that close?
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:10 PM
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I want to know the name, slang or official, for the high hat thing .... xxX xxX xxX xxX..... with the HH opening briefly on the capital X
I have always called that a Columbia rhythm. The "Broken triplet" as I call it (8th notes with a rest on the 'uh') are very popular in Cumbia, Not sure if it is played quite that way though...

Here is a fun example I found. Really makes this song more listenable...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIK_8AGfk4Y

While we're on it, does the Cumbia beat come from a Cascara pattern?
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

I meant like the intro to Skynyrds I know a Little
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

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Here is a fun example I found. Really makes this song more listenable...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIK_8AGfk4Y
Really, that's more listenable? That was Menacing! :-)

There's got to be other examples out there that don't include Hannah Montana.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:30 AM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
You mean where the beat is like straight kick but swung (or shuffled?) ride or hi hat or bass drum hoop?

I remember reading somewhere once that the "swung" part of the beat was what put the "roll" in rock and roll. Sounds right to me.

Did you coin the term swing/straight groove or is that an old term?

Ant, your opinion please...recently we have been doing John Mayer's version of "After Midnight"...Mayer did it on Seth Meyers a little bit ago...It's a slowed down greasier version compared to Clapton's version. Steve Jordan plays on it and he is basically playing a money beat with that famous SJ chicken grease feel for the meat of the groove, straight feel. Anyway, my bandleader asked me to "swing it". Which to me meant doing a half time shuffle, which is what he must have been thinking of, because he's apparently happy with it. So my question, in your mind, what is the difference between swing and shuffle? Or anyone who has an opinion. The "skip beat" is a dotted figure, right? So a swing and a shuffle are related but a shuffle is all "skip" beats and swing stuff mixes them up with non dotted notes. Is that close?
A shuffle IS swinging.... Play a shuffle without swinging it and u have straight 8ths.

But there is that no mans land between the two .. Think jailhouse rock ... Actually quite difficult to execute

But a dotted 8th shuffle definitely feels different than a triplet based shuffle

And yes... In my world "grease" means some form of swing implied inside the groove

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Old 07-21-2014, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

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But a dotted 8th shuffle definitely feels different than a triplet based shuffle
Can you elaborate on this? Maybe an example or something.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:09 AM
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Can you elaborate on this? Maybe an example or something.
Larry,

Check out the drum grooves in Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On or Jailhouse Rock.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Larry, an annoying friend of mine started a thread exactly like this about 5 years ago :) http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54128
Old threads.

Speaking of missing persons who posted to that thread, whatever happened to DeltaDrummer? I remember some fallout from the thread where he posted a cut-time shuffle and haven't really heard from him since. Was that why?
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:11 AM
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:29 AM
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Old threads.

Speaking of missing persons who posted to that thread, whatever happened to DeltaDrummer? I remember some fallout from the thread where he posted a cut-time shuffle and haven't really heard from him since. Was that why?
That was why. He caught a lot of flak for "not doing it good enough" by some estimations as I recall.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

I listed a couple of old rock and roll tunes but here's one of my favorites in a different style. The great Billy Higgins, playing "in the cracks," as a former member here (I'm sorry, can't remember who it was) described the way he got between straight 8th and swing. http://youtu.be/qJi03NqXfk8
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I listed a couple of old rock and roll tunes but here's one of my favorites in a different style. The great Billy Higgins, playing "in the cracks," as a former member here (I'm sorry, can't remember who it was) described the way he got between straight 8th and swing. http://youtu.be/qJi03NqXfk8
thats a great example of that beautiful middle ground

it's that more straight-ish 8th ECM thing ... I love it
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:43 AM
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That was why. He caught a lot of flak for "not doing it good enough" by some estimations as I recall.
It was a case (in my view) of having a pretty thin skin. He was a very decent guy and a good player in general. I remember that thread too and there was some fair criticism which he took quite personally, which surprised me.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=76170

There we go. Sadly, the video at issue is now locked down. He ended up getting into an argument with Lutz, which is usually a bad idea - Lutz is an absolutely killer player and really knows what he's talking about.

Forgot that I got involved with that, too...
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

A popular blues groove that doesn't have an official name is one I call the 1 3/4 shuffle. A mathematical play on words from the double shuffle. It's the basic groove that Chris Layton plays on Cold Shot. The riding hand plays quarter notes and the snare plays the the rest of the shuffle leaving out beats one and three, thereby playing 3/4 of the shuffle.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:23 AM
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Completely forgot about this, and you're right, your friend is annoying lol. When I did this thread, I wondered if I had done it before, but it was actually you. It sounded familiar and I was just waiting to get busted by someone.

Still, you have to admit, that by all counts, my thread is better than yours :P.
It must be, Lazza! Everyone is congratulating you on a good idea and I don't think anyone has clicked the link to the original thread and covering old ground. Maybe due to my namesake's annoyingness? ;-)

Dunc, I now regret saying what I did on that closed thread. It's probably more important to be kind than right ...
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:15 PM
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It must be, Lazza! Everyone is congratulating you on a good idea and I don't think anyone has clicked the link to the original thread and covering old ground. Maybe due to my namesake's annoyingness? ;-)

Dunc, I now regret saying what I did on that closed thread. It's probably more important to be kind than right ...
I don't think you were out of line at all. I think it's most important to be honest. We didn't know that Ken would react the way he did - we all figured he was a big boy that could handle honest appraisal. Evidently not.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:48 PM
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It must be, Lazza! Everyone is congratulating you on a good idea and I don't think anyone has clicked the link to the original thread and covering old ground. Maybe due to my namesake's annoyingness? ;-)

Dunc, I now regret saying what I did on that closed thread. It's probably more important to be kind than right ...
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I don't think you were out of line at all. I think it's most important to be honest. We didn't know that Ken would react the way he did - we all figured he was a big boy that could handle honest appraisal. Evidently not.
I remember that thread very well. One of the really low points of the forum, but mainly down to a very personal reaction from Ken. I still don't understand Ken's reaction, it must have touched a raw nerve. I just know the whole thing left me feeling sad. Sad also that Lutz is no longer active on this forum, an immense player & a really nice guy in person.

Erm - Polly. Nothing annoying about you, nor was it inappropriate to post an alternative example to Ken's video. Two different approaches to a similar groove. Nothing wrong with that. Ken over reacted. He wasn't the first, & certainly won't be the last.
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:40 PM
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I don't think you were out of line at all. I think it's most important to be honest. We didn't know that Ken would react the way he did - we all figured he was a big boy that could handle honest appraisal. Evidently not.
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I remember that thread very well. One of the really low points of the forum, but mainly down to a very personal reaction from Ken. I still don't understand Ken's reaction, it must have touched a raw nerve. I just know the whole thing left me feeling sad. Sad also that Lutz is no longer active on this forum, an immense player & a really nice guy in person.
Thanks guys. I was shocked and saddened by his response too, and felt really guilty afterwards in an "eggshell skull" kind of way.B oth Ken and Lutz were real assets to the forum, both generous sharing their considerable knowledge.

Bloody half time shuffle, eh? I'm still pretty ordinary at it - can only slip or two triplets into a bar. No way can I do the full Purdie with triplets powering through it unless I'm playing four on the floor on the kick.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:00 PM
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A popular blues groove that doesn't have an official name is one I call the 1 3/4 shuffle. A mathematical play on words from the double shuffle. It's the basic groove that Chris Layton plays on Cold Shot. The riding hand plays quarter notes and the snare plays the the rest of the shuffle leaving out beats one and three, thereby playing 3/4 of the shuffle.
Hmmmm, and I was told Cold Shot is a 'Texas shuffle'. Arrgh so many variations...

By the way , off topic, do you know you live near a very famous studio drummer, Jim Gordon, who is incarcerated at the institution outside Vacaville?
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

Oh queso here's some shuffles I know the names of. One name I use I just made up... the backbeat shuffle, a shuffle you would use on a rock tune like "Smokin in the Boy's Room" or Fleetwood Mac's "Don't Stop (Thinking About Tomorrow)"

Backbeat shuffle
Double shuffle
Half time shuffle
Flat tire shuffle
Swing shuffle
Texas shuffle

Each shuffle can be played a bunch of different ways, but each of these feel a little different from one another. For instance the double shuffle, I play with 3 limbs shuffling, hi hat chick on 2 & 4, others play a straight kick and shuffle both hands, hi hat on 2 & 4...Both are considered double shuffle I'd say. Nothing is cut and dried, more like general guidelines.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Oh queso here's some shuffles I know the names of. One name I use I just made up... the backbeat shuffle, a shuffle you would use on a rock tune like "Smokin in the Boy's Room" or Fleetwood Mac's "Don't Stop (Thinking About Tomorrow)"

Backbeat shuffle
Double shuffle
Half time shuffle
Flat tire shuffle
Swing shuffle
Texas shuffle

Each shuffle can be played a bunch of different ways, but each of these feel a little different from one another. For instance the double shuffle, I play with 3 limbs shuffling, hi hat chick on 2 & 4, others play a straight kick and shuffle both hands, hi hat on 2 & 4...Both are considered double shuffle I'd say. Nothing is cut and dried, more like general guidelines.
Larry, I'd love you to do a "show & tell" on shuffles. I suck royally at shuffles (although I can manage most simple forms). Something I really would like time to work on - one day :(

I'd also like to see you spend some time trading with Matt Cowley (I think you met him briefly at LDS last year). He's an industry go to Mr. shuffle deep grooving MoFo, & I could listen to him all day :)
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  #38  
Old 07-22-2014, 01:15 AM
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toddmc toddmc is offline
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

Quick question for you rhythm experts:
Whilst attending a Derek Roddy clinic he briefly mentioned (and played) something called the "flat tyre" (single snare hit, followed by a single bass drum/ride cymbal hit- wash, rinse and repeat).
Is this an actual thing or was he taking the piss?
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  #39  
Old 07-22-2014, 01:18 AM
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Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddmc View Post
Quick question for you rhythm experts:
Whilst attending a Derek Roddy clinic he briefly mentioned (and played) something called the "flat tyre" (single snare hit, followed by a single bass drum/ride cymbal hit- wash, rinse and repeat).
Is this an actual thing or was he taking the piss?
Sounds alot like Jens Hannemans' "Flam Rest" ;)
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  #40  
Old 07-22-2014, 01:57 AM
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mmulcahy1 mmulcahy1 is offline
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Default Re: Name that rhythm

The next rhythm I make up will be named Mohammed Lee.

Why? Why not.
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