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  #1  
Old 04-19-2014, 03:18 PM
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Jeremy Bender Jeremy Bender is offline
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Default Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

What is the boundary between the two?
Is it in the perception of the receiver or our own conscience (assuming you that have one).
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

They're kinda the same thing aren't they?
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

This is something I battle with every day. As a professional artist with a proper business and store-front I think about how to get my stuff out there everyday. And I have found that I am not very good at it at all. I think the reason is is that I feel kinda stupid tooting my own horn. I like to think that my work speaks for itself...whether artwork or drumming....but I'm not convinced at this time.

I'm pretty sure that it is 'to each his own', scruples and all of that. I think I was raised to be humble, which may have translated further than it was supposed to....I don't know.

It appears that the folks that have the ability to 'talk the talk' have more clout that those who do not, whether the talent and ability is there or not.
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

A person can be good at networking, making connections and closing deals while still being humble about it. A person has to self-promote to some extent or another to earn a living no matter what he or she does. Of course, musicians have to do it to an even greater extent in most cases, but it wasn't always like that, as many of you old-timers here may well know.

That being said, I think many musicians are narcissists.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:04 PM
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rmandelbaum rmandelbaum is offline
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

It's all n how you do it, i agree with the above post. I have been self employed or involved in a sales type role for well over 30 years. You are selling yourself, just convey you bring something of value to the table while just being yourself and you will be fine.

I also find with most musicians, the ones that tell you how great they are normally are not.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:52 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender View Post
What is the boundary between the two?
Is it in the perception of the receiver or our own conscience (assuming you that have one).
It is always someone else's perception that is the reality, and it is a fine line... the same line that divides confidence from arrogance, and assertive from aggressive.

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Old 04-22-2014, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

...this also begs the question about how arrogance feeds functionality...a'la "Top Gun" Military Fliers...or self aggrandizing musicians...(hopefully I am enriching this conversation rather than de-railing it)

There appears to be science behind the idea that beliving something about your abilities helps produce it.

Think this is true with music?

I can see how losing touch with reality can keep you from responding to your own weaknesses...but if you are a very strong musician...would arrogance prevent double thinking your successful approach?...sure it would put off those who cant stand your personality...but those secure enough to tolerate you would get the advantage of working with a strong Buddy Ri....er....Musician. ; )

(devils advocate here)
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:46 AM
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
...sure it would put off those who cant stand your personality...but those secure enough to tolerate you would get the advantage of working with a strong Buddy Ri....er....Musician. ; )
No player is so great that others should have to tolerate them. And it's not a matter of being secure enough, it's a matter of just not wanting to deal with someone who's a handful. There's a reason Buddy formed his own band. :)

There are just too many guys who can play, and don't have an extreme attitude about it. They're the ones that get hired, and re-hired. Nobody has a problem with someone who's confident about their ability, but the instant they turn arrogant, they're out.

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Old 04-29-2014, 03:05 AM
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Jeremy Bender Jeremy Bender is offline
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

Bermuda, truer words have never been spoken. I can think of two giants in our craft who have since passed, yet were always kind enough to take the time to show a drummer a lick or two. They were Ed Shaugnessy and Louie Bellson. They were monster players for sure, but very approachable off the bandstand as well.

I remember Ed once said something along the lines of "Look, it's hard enough getting really good. Player's who've reached the top understand what's involved in getting to that level. It's hard enough without any lousy attitudes getting in the way of success."
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:53 PM
BFrench501 BFrench501 is offline
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

I always thought self promotion was being honest about your achievements, whereas self aggrandizement is more embellishing to differeing degress, the levels of success you have had etc.

Let me give my little life story and see which reads better (and therefore percieved to be more genuine.

I feel fortunate enough to have some gift to develop skills quickly but I wish I was not a jack of all trades type. I have beaten Darren Appleton (World Pool Champion 2012) in a 9-ball match, I played well but was given a 6 start to 12. I have also beaten Andy Jenkins when he was ranked #6 in the world at darts, but he was unprofessional in turning up drunk, and played poor allowing a bus driver to beat him. I have also beaten a FIDE master and an International Master at chess in simultaneous displays, but these were on the internet with no real importance and contained some blunders.

In music I have been invited on stage to play a song with a friends band to only find out that the keyboardist/trumpet player was in The Beautiful South and has played on #1 hits.

OR

I am lucky enough to be gifted to succeed at anything I try my hand at. I have beaten Darren Appleton (World Pool Champion 2012) in a 9-ball match. I beat him 12-4 and didn't miss a ball match which angered the hell out of him. I have also beaten Andy Jenkins when he was ranked #6 in the world at darts, I won 5-4 but was 4-2 down and showed a lot of heart to battle back and win. I had only been playing 8 months, that is how quick I developed my skills! I have also beat a FIDE master and a Womans Grandmaster (note: this is only International Master strength) in simultaneous displays, playing lines which I was more prepared in than they were and subsequently won me the game.

In music I have played with some quality musicians including the trumpet/keyboardist from The Beautiful South which demonstrates that I am good enough to hold my own with any musician.



Which one sounds better and more genuine to you? Maybe my first one is more self-deprecation than promotion, but it's certainly more honest and truthful!
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  #11  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:01 PM
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BillRayDrums BillRayDrums is offline
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

I have been promoting myself for years on the internet and I think there's very few people who perceive me as a dick. :D Of course, I could be self-aggrandizing myself at this very moment, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and just outright state that being helpful to others and an asset wins every time over being a total jerkface.

:D

Of course there's people who will tear you down whenever they get a chance.... I knew a guy once whuh did that sort of thing rather well!
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  #12  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Self promotion vs self aggrandizement-a fine line?

I believe there is a time for both. Most of the people I work with dont even know I am in a band. If given the opportunity I will self promote my band by telling people that we exist and to check us out. If people at that point want more information I will self aggrendize about my own and the bands accomplishments. Really it comes down to knowing your audience.
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