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  #1  
Old 01-11-2014, 05:50 PM
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Default Vinyl Resurgence Thread

I'm picking this up from the "How to beat superior drummer" thread.

I was never really a hardcore fan of vinyl, as I preferred open reel tape as my analog medium of choice. But the people on audiophile fora I'm in are all wetting their pants with prospects of LP only releases and re-releases of albums previously available only on CD.

What are your opinions on the seeming resurgence of interest in vinyl records?
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Bunch of hipsters thinking it makes them cool.

Or no one can afford CD players and are afraid of being caught pirating music.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Hipsters...cool?HMMMM.

Funny,but all I had was vinyl or reel to reel at one time.Eight trak,and cassette came later.

I still have a large record collection,and I add to it when ever possible.You can go to yard sales and pick up vinyl for as little as 50 cents apiece.Not 2 months ago,I got a copy of Quadrophenia in excellent condition for 1 dollar.That's not the rarety,it's the norm.

I really don't know or care about how collecting make me appear cool or not.I do it because.it's cheap,and I still have a great piece of music,that I can convert into any format that I want..You're not pitrateing anything,you own the original copy,and as long as you're not selling other copies,and only using them for your own personal enjotment,thats NOT piracy.

Beat that with a stick.:):)

Steve B
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

I have no interest in vinyl. They scratch, are big, and the price tag is huge. I would also have to find a turntable and a place to put it. I have a ton of CD's and the thought of replacing them or even adding to them gives me a headache.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

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Originally Posted by MrPockets View Post
Bunch of hipsters thinking it makes them cool.

Or no one can afford CD players and are afraid of being caught pirating music.
Not just 'hipsters' thinking it makes them 'cool'.

I've had a record player since about 2004. I got my first one when I was 16 and I bought a much nicer player about five years ago. Since then, I've amassed a collection of records covering a wide range of genres. I like the physical feel of an album and the process of playing them - if I put on a record, I am much more likely to listen to the whole album and enjoy it because the experience is less disposable than selecting songs from a list and jumping around.

It's also made it much easier for me to get hard-to-find music. For a lot of older (especially classical) records, there has been no digital conversion made and I can find records easily in charity shops and second-hand shops. I've bought most of my records second-hand. It's also relatively inexpensive - especially for some of the more avant-garde music I'm into (noise). There are record stores around that have a section specifically for avant-garde and I'll often find interesting albums for less than 10. It also means that I 'browse' - so even if I don't know what I'm looking for, I can find something interesting. With online purchases, I have to specifically know what it is I'm after before I can find it. That's not the case with well-stocked record stores.

I prefer the experience. I just do. I've preferred it since I was young and I think it of it as an experience rather than simply sticking on a few tracks. It's a ritual and one I enjoy immensely.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Hipsters...cool?HMMMM.

Funny,but all I had was vinyl or reel to reel at one time.Eight trak,and cassette came later.

I still have a large record collection,and I add to it when ever possible.You can go to yard sales and pick up vinyl for as little as 50 cents apiece.Not 2 months ago,I got a copy of Quadrophenia in excellent condition for 1 dollar.That's not the rarety,it's the norm.

I really don't know or care about how collecting make me appear cool or not.I do it because.it's cheap,and I still have a great piece of music,that I can convert into any format that I want..

Beat that with a stick.:):)

Steve B
You don't count because you lived when vinyl was the norm. I was talking about people born post vinyl era.

Also, you never mentioned buying new vinyls of new releases. That also excludes you from the demographic I created.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

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You don't count because you lived when vinyl was the norm. I was talking about people born post vinyl era.

Also, you never mentioned buying new vinyls of new releases. That also excludes you from the demographic I created.
MrPockets, I'm not sure why you're trying to characterise people that undertake a particular activity. Were you beaten by a hipster as a child?

Vinyl is just fun and a lot of the stuff that I like isn't released in other formats, even now.
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

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I have no interest in vinyl. They scratch, are big, and the price tag is huge. I would also have to find a turntable and a place to put it. I have a ton of CD's and the thought of replacing them or even adding to them gives me a headache.
^ This.

I had a ton of vinyl when I was a kid. That was then, and I don't see the need to go back.
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
I prefer the experience. I just do. I've preferred it since I was young and I think it of it as an experience rather than simply sticking on a few tracks. It's a ritual and one I enjoy immensely.
I hear you. Exactly my feeling. Admittedly most of my music listening is by CD enroute somewhere in my vehicle, but *preferred* quality experience is going to my room downstairs and putting on vinyl.

Listening to an mp3 or CD is like coffee with one of those "Tassimo" thingies.
Listening to vinyl is like making an espresso, the old way with a stovetop pot.

Its great times, because as Steve mentioned, vinyl is cheap at yard sales, good old stuff to be found, and I am no hipster looking to buy newly packaged vinyl of Lady Gaga or some other autotuned wussie anyway.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

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Originally Posted by makinao View Post

What are your opinions on the seeming resurgence of interest in vinyl records?
It's simply for a niche crowd. For people who still embrace vinyl, or are first time buyers, good for them. It's a guilty pleasure. At one time, I had over 2000 records. Sold most of 'em. Now I have over 2000 CDs. Most people I know listen to iPod.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

I'm a bit of an LP fan, ever since my dad handed his 200+ LP collection. It's not hipster rubbish... buying CD's is pointless + you normally get a high quality download code when you buy a vinyl these days. There's something special about vinyl, much more rewarding than playing something on iTunes. You have the artwork and the feel of an actual physical product. There's also collectable value.

That said, I think the idea of vinyl only releases is pretentious rubbish.
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Old 01-12-2014, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

There's a reason things go away. I worked with a man who in the 60s and 70s was the guy who owned one of the first Moog synthesizers and wrote the very famous "Main St. Electrical Parade" music, and we were talking about the future of recorded music once and he surprised me when he said "Why would you want to go back to listening to music that way?" Les Paul was even said to tell a group of engineers at an Audio Engineering Society convention (and I paraphrase) "With all those bald heads out there, you'd think you'd come up with a better way to play music than to gouge a piece of vinyl with a diamond needle, or running rust-covered mylar over a pristine magnetic head".

Even in photography, film has died. And even before film died, people made photographs on glass plates, used all kinds of even more dangerous chemicals, etc.,....and all those processes are dead and gone.

I have tons of records from when I was a kid, and my favorites have now all become CD's. I agree I think its pretentious rubbish to only release your new album on vinyl, as you'd be cutting yourself off from potential sales online via places like iTunes.

This, like photography's seeming resurgence in film processes, will quickly die away too. Nobody really has the time to dedicate to it. I used to make cassette tapes of my albums so I can play it in the car - you really think anybody has the time to go back to doing that when they buy an album? Especially after they already know how quick it can be done when purchased digitally? I doubt it.
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Old 01-12-2014, 04:23 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Maybe when they have a turntable for the car they will make a serious comeback. I can play a cd in my card, my computer, my home stereo system etc etc etc. the turntable in my trunk seems to skip a lot.
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Old 01-12-2014, 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Just as with home theatre - car audio will move far away from compact discs pretty quickly. My car stereo for example, is bluetooth/USB only.

Use the download code from the vinyl and on my phone it all goes. But it's nice to have a physical collection. It's also better quality than CD audio (FLAC or LOSSLESS), so if yyou're wanting a hard copy, why not vinyl? Better quality, lasts longer, holds value... Mostly.

If you're happy to just have a digital copy, that makes perfect sense, too.
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

My take is that a lot of younger people who are discovering, understanding and appreciating music history and where "their" music actually came from are embracing vinyl. I run into a number of college students who are "inheriting" their parents vinyl collections. Part of the movement may be the younger generation tiring of having the latest, greatest technology and returning to "simpler" old school ways. With all the social media and web commercials some of the resurgence in vinyl may be attributed to individuals seeing musicians they respect with massive music libraries comprised of different formats. For example check out 1:32 of Questlove's commercial with both new school and old school technology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=javJrkBg9ZM
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:59 AM
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My take is that a lot of younger people who are discovering, understanding and appreciating music history and where "their" music actually came from are embracing vinyl. I run into a number of college students who are "inheriting" their parents vinyl collections. Part of the movement may be the younger generation tiring of having the latest, greatest technology and returning to "simpler" old school ways. With all the social media and web commercials some of the resurgence in vinyl may be attributed to individuals seeing musicians they respect with massive music libraries comprised of different formats. For example check out 1:32 of Questlove's commercial with both new school and old school technology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=javJrkBg9ZM
I share the same view. The more I got into music, the more I started to understand the importance of music history, which of course many random late-night-tangental-internet-clicks later started leading into an audio obsession that now rivals my drumming one. To me, vinyl is the most accessable analog format, which I think is just as valid to have as digital. I only have 50-60 records, compared to my 5000+ songs digitally, but all those physical albums are very important to me. There's something really intimate about holding music in your hands, and setting up a turntable to get the vibes flowing. I'd much prefer to buy vinyl over CD's, of which I only have a modest collection.
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

when I was a child my parents listened to vinyl. When I grew up they still had those records. I wanted to listen to them so I went out and bought a record player. The sound is different. If the record is not scratched the sound goes much deeper, you can hear more clarity. I have been obsessed with that sound for a long time now. My wife and I now have a collection of a few thousand vinyl records. I do hope they make a comeback and I like the download code. But as of now cd's should still be made. Some people are not ready to give up on them.

Most people will never hear the difference and that is ok but I do and that is why I prefer vinyl. hopefully in the future as far as digital downloads go we should start using wav files instead of mp3's the mp3's that are put on cd's and on your Ipods and Zunes or whatever you have that is where the quality is lost. with computers coming with a terabyte on them now wave files are not out of the question. That will take digital media to the next level.

I jumped around a bit so I apologize but I think I got my point across.
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

I don't buy music anymore, haven't for about 10 years now. Formats change. I can't justify the expense anymore. The only time I listen to music is on satellite radio while driving, which has any genre I'm interested in. When Sirius Radio first came out they had a deal....$500.00 USD gets you free satellite radio for life. I jumped on that. WHAT a deal. That was in 2006.

With satellite radio, I get to hear music I would otherwise never hear. Like right now I am trying to absorb more jazz. On a typical ride to work, I would probably have to spend about 100 bones to hear the songs I hear. At home if I need to learn something there's YT. I stopped buying music after realizing that for me personally, what a waste of money it was. I don't need the nostalgia of placing the needle to the vinyl, things are too fast paced for that anymore. It's just not for me, but I realize how much others enjoy the experience.
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
You're not pitrateing anything,you own the original copy,and as long as you're not selling other copies,and only using them for your own personal enjotment,thats NOT piracy.
Nobody got in trouble because they made a cassette copy of their album to listen in the car or Walkman™. It's when they started handing out copies that the trouble began. And that was a real commitment on the part of the owner of the LP - they had to make copies in real time, and typically one at a time, walking softly so as not to skip or rumble the transfer, and having to sticking around to flip the album. Not to mention the cost of the tape, and postage if sending to a friend far away. And, copying the album cover meant a trip to the local Postal Instant Press. Now that was dedication!

Little did the record industry know how benign it all was though. Once the internet took hold and a suitable file was created for transfer over slow connections - the .mp3 - all hell broke loose.

But vinyl for me still has its place, and as mentioned, there are songs and artists that just don't exist (yet) in the digital realm, even with the cornucopia of obscure material posted on YouTube. I still have about 800 LPs and maybe 150 45s, but haven't purchased any new releases on vinyl since they were actually new 20+ years ago. I still buy an old LP now and then, but I don't regard vinyl as a viable way to listen to music with modern (1990+)production values.

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Old 01-12-2014, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Bermuda, I'm going to contradict you with an example:

Radiohead's 'In Rainbows' (released in 2007) was a 'new' vinyl release. It was released on other formats too but the vinyl mastering is just gorgeous to the point where it doesn't sound anything like as good on other formats.
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Raelthomas View Post
You have the artwork and the feel of an actual physical product.
Granted, LPs possessed more artistic real estate than CDs, and sometimes included even larger posters. But does today's youth - still the prime song-buyers & concertgoers - really care about holding a physical thing, or the concept of ownership at all? Don't they just want to listen?

I'm seeing the trend with software, where discs aren't included in store-bought packages, it's all just a download. Basically, you're buying a license to use the software. Strictly virtual. And good luck loading it onto your 2nd laptop! At least with iTunes, you can have your songs on up to 5 of your computers/devices.

But I digress.

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Old 01-12-2014, 06:46 PM
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Bermuda, I'm going to contradict you with an example:

Radiohead's 'In Rainbows' (released in 2007) was a 'new' vinyl release. It was released on other formats too but the vinyl mastering is just gorgeous to the point where it doesn't sound anything like as good on other formats.
I haven't heard their recent material, but I would ask if the total length of the songs was deliberately shorter in order to maximize the capabilities of an LP. I agree that with an optimum amount of material, say, no more than 22 minutes per side, an LP sounds great. But when the length exceeds that, the grooves must be cut even narrower and shallower, and the audio quality and volume is reduced. That's just how a needle tracking a groove works.

That's also why 45s and 12" singles always sounded great - big, deep grooves. The more the needle moves, the more accurate the sound, and the louder the signal, which also masked surface noise. But on a microgroove LP over a certain length, the needle can't move as much, the volume (and I assume dynamic range) is reduced, and surface noise is more audible. There aren't those kinds of issues with a CD, unless it's just poorly mastered.

Bermuda

Last edited by bermuda; 01-12-2014 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:01 PM
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I haven't heard their recent material, but I would ask if the total length of the songs was deliberately shorter in order to maximize the capabilities of an LP. I agree that with an optimum amount of material, say, no more than 22 minutes per side, an LP sounds great. But when the length exceeds that, the grooves must be cut even narrower and shallower, and the audio quality and volume is reduced. That's just how a needle tracking a groove works.

That's also why 45s and 12" singles always sounded great - big, deep grooves. The more the needle moves, the more accurate the sound, and the louder the signal, which also masked surface noise. But on a microgroove LP over a certain length, the needle can't move as much, the volume (and I assume dynamic range) is reduced, and surface noise is more audible. There aren't those kinds of issues with a CD, unless it's just poorly mastered.

Bermuda
A lot of new releases are cut to make a double album of 45s rather than 33s. This was certainly the case with 'In Rainbows'. Otherwise, I'm in total agreement.

Personally, I prefer albums that are time-limited by the vinyl. Around 45 minutes seems to be just about right. Most of my favourite albums are about that length, regardless of when they reduced - any longer and my interest tends to wander.

And yes, dynamic range is reduced with narrower grooves.
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Not just 'hipsters' thinking it makes them 'cool'.

I've had a record player since about 2004. I got my first one when I was 16 and I bought a much nicer player about five years ago. Since then, I've amassed a collection of records covering a wide range of genres. I like the physical feel of an album and the process of playing them - if I put on a record, I am much more likely to listen to the whole album and enjoy it because the experience is less disposable than selecting songs from a list and jumping around.

It's also made it much easier for me to get hard-to-find music. For a lot of older (especially classical) records, there has been no digital conversion made and I can find records easily in charity shops and second-hand shops. I've bought most of my records second-hand. It's also relatively inexpensive - especially for some of the more avant-garde music I'm into (noise). There are record stores around that have a section specifically for avant-garde and I'll often find interesting albums for less than 10. It also means that I 'browse' - so even if I don't know what I'm looking for, I can find something interesting. With online purchases, I have to specifically know what it is I'm after before I can find it. That's not the case with well-stocked record stores.

I prefer the experience. I just do. I've preferred it since I was young and I think it of it as an experience rather than simply sticking on a few tracks. It's a ritual and one I enjoy immensely.
This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
With records, it's the kind of whole experience that I really enjoy, the feel of everything involved.
I love just sitting in front of the turntable skipping through dollar bin finds, or sitting back and concentrating on a single record with the computer turned off.

But, I also do get immense pleasure from being a youtube dj for the night every now and then. Typically involving lots of beer
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

It's not just on the LP collectors side. On the DJ/electronic music side of things, there has been a pretty big uptick in vinyl sales and vinyl only releases in the last two years. This is happening as the equipment formats that replaced decks and wax (CDJ and USB controllers) have gotten more and more feature packed and wallet friendly.

I think half of it is a genuine niche of people who embraced the new stuff and found that while it allowed them to do so many creative things with their mixes that are conceptually impossible on 1200s and analog plates, that the sheer amount of those options often obscured the focus on what people enjoyed about that way of communicating music in the first place: building a journey of musical tension and release. I have a lot of friends who will occasionally pack a crate full of vinyl and ask the venue to dust off the Technics because they want to trim the fat and have a free flowing evening.

The other half touting vinyl, sadly are largely old guard dinosaurs, or new guard hipsters who argue with strawmen like "real DJs can beatmatch on vinyl" or do things like booking "vinyl only" shows strictly to exclude others who have embraced new technology, and doing it under the guise of presenting an "old school feel" like I mentioned above.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Keep in mind vinyl is still considered by purists the audiophile standard, purists being ppl (like myself) who grew up with it and haven't found anything that sounds as good.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

I have a few hundred vinyls, and I love them. Some are new (I much prefer having a product to hold rather than something digital) but most of them are old.

I wouldn't say I agree that they're better quality, but I do think that they sound better, if that makes any sense at all.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:01 AM
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In my youngin days I used to argue with my older brother about the sound quality of vinyl vs the mobility of the cassette tape. Which is why I love CD's and MP3's. I can take my music anywhere.

Having said that, I do enjoy the artwork on an LP and also, been thinking about getting a turntable so I can start listening to vinyl again.
My parents had a huge collection of all the great oldies on vinyl. Wish I had that collection.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

I still buy physical anything if I can (games, movies, books, etc.). Got no room for a turntable or the budget for vinyl. My car only has a cd player, so I buy cds for driving to school and stick the music on my tablet for other listening. I know it's not cool anymore, but I really just don't like this "digital is the future!" trend. It's amazing for garage bands who live continents away from me and I can't easily buy their stuff, but for other stuff, especially video games, I'm not a fan. If I buy something, I wanna hold it. I'd get into vinyl if it were worthwhile economically, but I definitely see the appeal.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:18 AM
tclem tclem is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

I think their are typically two main reasons that people like vinyl:

1. The experiential side: reliving memories, listening to the whole album, etc.
2. The audio quality side: the sound is richer than other formats

Both of these have been discussed so far but i figured i would throw in my 2 cent.

Regarding the first reason i remember when i was really young, 4-5, my Dad playing Elton John, Billy Joel, the Beatles and others on vinyl. It was fun playing air guitar and drums and a great memory that I will always have. Eventually my dad starting giving me some of his vinyl and now I love it when my 2 year old son wants me to put on the Beach Boys so we can play air guitar and dance (he dances and I laugh while singing Cat's in the Cradle in my head)

Regarding the audio quality their are actually harmonics that are present on vinyl that are absent on other formats. Think of it like this: the smaller the format (vinyl->cassette->cd ->mp3) the more harmonics they have to remove to get the music to fit on that format. The sound may be negligible to some but in my opinion there is something warmer about vinyl. Maybe like a tube amp compared to a really nice solid-state amp.
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:26 AM
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jodgey4 jodgey4 is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by tclem View Post
Regarding the audio quality their are actually harmonics that are present on vinyl that are absent on other formats. Think of it like this: the smaller the format (vinyl->cassette->cd ->mp3) the more harmonics they have to remove to get the music to fit on that format. The sound may be negligible to some but in my opinion there is something warmer about vinyl. Maybe like a tube amp compared to a really nice solid-state amp.
I'm not about to open the whole analog vs. digital sound quality debate... but a CD should hold all the audible information that you should need for the normal human hearing range. Those harmonics you mention are out of the hearing range... and I'm skeptical that they should matter. Either way, there is certainly a market for high bitrate lossless digital audio for its supposed sonic benefits.

This is of course under the condition that your DAC is as high of quality as your vinyl rig. Mid-range vinyl set-ups usually sounds better than mid-range digital, beyond that it's hard to say.

Regarding tube vs. SS, the harmonics are different, and within the human hearing range. The even order harmonics of tubes create a warmer sound.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:35 PM
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larryz larryz is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by tclem View Post
I think their are typically two main reasons that people like vinyl:

1. The experiential side: reliving memories, listening to the whole album, etc.
2. The audio quality side: the sound is richer than other formats
.
I recalled these great record players we used to have in Catholic grade school in the 1970s so I recently purchased one from ebay. Awesome sound for such a little thing. I remember playing Led Zep's "Dazed and Confused" on such a player in 7th grade in Sister Ann Grace's class. It was 'bring your favorite album to school day'.

Ha! Sister picked up the needle after about 30 seconds... Song over!
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:41 PM
Smoke Smoke is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl Resurgence Thread

Well, there's one thing my vinyl LPs have that you won't find on my CDs and DVD audio: cool brown stains that are really far out, man and what seems to be unidentifiable plant matter ground into the album sleeves.

I just wish I could remember how they got there...
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