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  #41  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

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That's my point, that's not a great deal in the eyes of an uneducated buyer. you want a kit for your son/daughter for that price that requires assembly or on for the same price that's ready to go? I think they may miss their target because its not inexpensive at that price to a lot of buyers. American made isn't that much of a selling point in drums, best selling ever is the Pearl export so that theory is out the window.
I think education is the whole point of selling a kit like this. If people know what they would get if THEY would put it together it would make people much more likely to buy this....
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  #42  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

No question in my mind this will trend to other companies who will modify their offerings in various ways. I dare say top of the line sets will be offered in this way someday soon, if the price is that much better. There are far more DIYers out there than many realize, who would jump at a pro line if it meant big savings. On a 5pc. set you're only talking 70 lugs and snare parts, and spurs. Bass drum tom mount if it comes with it.

It'll fly at this level. Then it will be to see which company follows suit first, if they aren't already planning things.
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  #43  
Old 12-17-2013, 10:46 PM
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No question in my mind this will trend to other companies who will modify their offerings in various ways. I dare say top of the line sets will be offered in this way someday soon, if the price is that much better. There are far more DIYers out there than many realize, who would jump at a pro line if it meant big savings. On a 5pc. set you're only talking 70 lugs and snare parts, and spurs. Bass drum tom mount if it comes with it.

It'll fly at this level. Then it will be to see which company follows suit first, if they aren't already planning things.
And then the next step would be shipping pro kits without heads since most experienced players have their own brand/model preference anyway.
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  #44  
Old 12-18-2013, 12:22 AM
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And then the next step would be shipping pro kits without heads since most experienced players have their own brand/model preference anyway.

No, I don't think so. For the price difference it would make for the consumer to buy a high end kit cheaper, it would make it inconvenient as heck and put the kit at risk for damage from shipping, etc...Putting heads on is apart of assembling any drum set.
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  #45  
Old 12-18-2013, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

I don't know. Empty shells all bubble wrapped and all. They'd be protected well enough in shipping and handling.

If I got a set with one brand of heads I wasn't crazy about I would end up changing them out.

A la carte is what is coming. It's in all the rest of the manufacturing /retailing world. There are shell packs now. Why not parts packs?
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  #46  
Old 12-18-2013, 12:54 AM
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No, I don't think so. For the price difference it would make for the consumer to buy a high end kit cheaper, it would make it inconvenient as heck and put the kit at risk for damage from shipping, etc...Putting heads on is apart of assembling any drum set.
We're already talking about a drum kit that comes completely unassembled, without the lugs attached to the shell.

If the lugs aren't attached, the heads are not already on the kit.

So damage in shipping is a non factor, as that has already been taken into consideration.

And given this context of an unassembled drum kit, it is already relatively inconvenient.

I do agree the cost difference is minor in terms of the cost of the heads, as Remo/Evans sells to the manufactures at OEM prices, which are a minute fraction per head compared to what the consumer pays.

But the point of shipping said kit unassembled is to save labor costs.

While the heads themselves are only a few dollars per head, there is the labor of shipping heads from the head factory to the drum factory, paying some one to un pack the heads, sort them into appropriate piles, putting the heads into the box with the drum kit, keep track of head inventory, etc, and it ads up over time.

On a high boutique drum, cost savings is perhaps negligible. In the context of keeping a semi-pro kit as cheap as possible by offering it unassembled, why not?

Most people who are buying their 2nd kit have an idea of what heads they prefer. So many threads in the "Your Gear" section are stories of swapping out the stock heads for each players personal favorite combo.
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  #47  
Old 12-18-2013, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

My point being they are never going to ship any kit assembled or not, without heads. Consumers could not get their head around that. Especially when they are paying higher end prices.Pun intended.
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  #48  
Old 12-18-2013, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

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That's my point, that's not a great deal in the eyes of an uneducated buyer. you want a kit for your son/daughter for that price that requires assembly or on for the same price that's ready to go? I think they may miss their target because its not inexpensive at that price to a lot of buyers. American made isn't that much of a selling point in drums, best selling ever is the Pearl export so that theory is out the window.
And those cheapie Pulse kits are some of GC's best sellers. So that proves that people will only buy Pulse kits right? Flawless logic...

I think this is a great idea. I think players with a bit of gear knowledge with be all over this. Both kits that I own were purchased new but on some sort of closeout. A tightwad drummer like me would be all over this deal for a new American made kit. Plus if the kick came in those modern 18" or 20" depths then it would be less work for me to take to my drum guy and have is sliced down to a 14" depth.
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  #49  
Old 12-18-2013, 03:04 AM
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And those cheapie Pulse kits are some of GC's best sellers. So that proves that people will only buy Pulse kits right? Flawless logic...

I think this is a great idea. I think players with a bit of gear knowledge with be all over this. Both kits that I own were purchased new but on some sort of closeout. A tightwad drummer like me would be all over this deal for a new American made kit. Plus if the kick came in those modern 18" or 20" depths then it would be less work for me to take to my drum guy and have is sliced down to a 14" depth.
before you get too excited mr logic, i already stated that i was wrong
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  #50  
Old 12-18-2013, 03:09 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Now the link goes to some guitars. I hope they turn out to be the real deal. I would consider driving to Monroe and possibly owning my first set of Wigs. I never liked them as a kid because of the lugs for the most part, and the sound wasn't to my taste. We'll see how these turn out. Can't wait!
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  #51  
Old 12-18-2013, 03:15 AM
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before you get too excited mr logic, i already stated that i was wrong
Dang! Minute late and a dollar short. Oh well, sorry about that, I can get a bit hasty sometimes. There is a different thread around here that has devolved to a petty argument because some of us can't disagree like adults. We will not be reduced to that eh Hyde? I for one can't wait to see the multitude of NAMM pics and videos that will be all over the place.

I'd love to be a low-lever endorser in a larger company or work at a music store just for the opportunity of attending NAMM.
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  #52  
Old 12-18-2013, 03:18 AM
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Dang! Minute late and a dollar short. Oh well, sorry about that, I can get a bit hasty sometimes. There is a different thread around here that has devolved to a petty argument because some of us can't disagree like adults. We will not be reduced to that eh Hyde? I for one can't wait to see the multitude of NAMM pics and videos that will be all over the place.

I'd love to be a low-lever endorser in a larger company or work at a music store just for the opportunity of attending NAMM.
haha its all good. i was looking at it all wrong for whatever reason. it makes complete sense now as far as savings on a great kit goes. ( shell pack). i cant wait to see the price list and finishes etc. might almost be like buying ( almost) the mydenity mapex. choose shell sizes and finish maybe?
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  #53  
Old 12-18-2013, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

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My point being they are never going to ship any kit assembled or not, without heads. Consumers could not get their head around that. Especially when they are paying higher end prices.Pun intended.
My point is based off of assuming the "assemble it yourself" drum kit idea Ludwig is putting forth goes over.

If it fails miserably, they I agree with you.

Otherwise:

If consumers can get their head around if they want birch, maple, oak, mahogany or other materials...

If consumers can wrap their heads the difference between a 14x20 and an 18x24 bass drums..

If consumers can wrap their heads around a shell pack does NOT come with hardware...

If consumers can wrap their heads around that a drum kit does NOT come with cymbals.

If consumers can wrap their head around that a drum kit does NOT come with a throne..

If consumers can wrap their head around that a drum kit does NOT come with sticks...

If consumers can wrap their heads around that nearly every catalog for medium to high end drums stresses the ability to chose from a wide variety of options,

Then I think the average non-beginner drum consumer could figure out picking their own heads separately.

Most decent to high end kits stress options, options, options. Pick your wood, pick your sizes, pick your finish, pick what you want to get your sound. But then they don't give the end user an option in heads. Seems silly to me.
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  #54  
Old 12-18-2013, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

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And then the next step would be shipping pro kits without heads since most experienced players have their own brand/model preference anyway.
I still say no company is going to send out a "pro" kit with no heads included. If you are buying a "pro" kit, you are already have the option to have whatever heads you want on it. It would be like buying a new car with no wheels. I still have a problem with this post. Unless I am not understanding it then correct me if Im wrong.
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  #55  
Old 12-18-2013, 02:40 PM
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I still say no company is going to send out a "pro" kit with no heads included. If you are buying a "pro" kit, you are already have the option to have whatever heads you want on it. It would be like buying a new car with no wheels. I still have a problem with this post. Unless I am not understanding it then correct me if Im wrong.
I don't know for sure but I think Remo makes the Ludwig branded heads. If that's the case, I doubt Remo would like the idea of Ludwig selling Evans heads with a kit.
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  #56  
Old 12-18-2013, 04:46 PM
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I still say no company is going to send out a "pro" kit with no heads included. If you are buying a "pro" kit, you are already have the option to have whatever heads you want on it. It would be like buying a new car with no wheels. I still have a problem with this post. Unless I am not understanding it then correct me if Im wrong.
Well, until I read this thread, I would have said no major company would ever send out a drum kit with the lugs not already on the shell...but apparently that is going to happen anyway.

So if one unbelievable thing can happen, two unbelievable things is the next step. That's all.
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  #57  
Old 12-18-2013, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

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I don't know for sure but I think Remo makes the Ludwig branded heads. If that's the case, I doubt Remo would like the idea of Ludwig selling Evans heads with a kit.
Not true. Ludwig makes their "Weathermaster" heads (silver dots, coated, clear, heavy, medium, thin, etc. etc.) in-house. On lower-end lines, Ludwig has used cheap Evans and cheap Remos at various points since the '90s.
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  #58  
Old 12-18-2013, 07:25 PM
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Not true. Ludwig makes their "Weathermaster" heads (silver dots, coated, clear, heavy, medium, thin, etc. etc.) in-house. On lower-end lines, Ludwig has used cheap Evans and cheap Remos at various points since the '90s.
That's why my first words were " I don't know for sure". big huge thanks for correcting me...
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  #59  
Old 12-18-2013, 07:41 PM
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That's why my first words were " I don't know for sure". big huge thanks for correcting me...
And? I didn't mean to come across as anything other than factual. :)
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  #60  
Old 12-18-2013, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

It'll be interesting to see how Ludwig approaches the customizability of this new Signet series. If they're only offering one finish and a couple shell packs initially, it'll be hard for them to really push it as an individualized product. I feel as though an initial offering of many different options (a la Mydentity) might allow them to fully exploit the potential of this new type of product. Even different hardware colors would be a great start. Otherwise, they're basically just selling a cheap Classic Maple with different lugs. Great for people who want a pro Ludwig kit for gigging, but not so great for the larger market share of younger drummers looking for hyper-personalized custom kits.
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  #61  
Old 12-18-2013, 07:56 PM
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And? I didn't mean to come across as anything other than factual. :)
by saying not true it implies I was lying. I wasn't.
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  #62  
Old 12-18-2013, 09:33 PM
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by saying not true it implies I was lying. I wasn't.
Not at all. I did not say "you are lying", nor did I imply it.

You said you weren't sure if Ludwig outsourcing their drumhead production was a truth or falsehood. I merely replied by saying it was not true, they actually make their own heads.

No implication of lying whatsoever, I believe you that you didn't know.
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  #63  
Old 12-20-2013, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

New short Yamaha Absolute teaser:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

Crush will show a new series too.
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Last edited by Basswood; 12-20-2013 at 12:20 AM.
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  #64  
Old 12-21-2013, 05:54 AM
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Care to guess why the kit is priced like that? :)
Welcome to IKEA.

I have many thoughts on this concept and none of them are very positive and I don't find it a particularly brilliant marketing plan based on what I've heard. Haven't we been making kits at home for years now?

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  #65  
Old 12-21-2013, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Since we're on the NAMM topic:

• A new limited production (x20) George Way snare drum affectionately dubbed The Pantages. It is one of several limited production runs of George Way concept models that I'll be releasing over the next year (or more!).

• Dunnett branded R Class accessories now available through Big Bang Distribution. I know many of my clients were having a very difficult time sourcing R Class components. 2014 is going to be very different. Plus, I'm introducing more than a few USEFUL innovations. Useful.

• Dunnett beaded / straight shell snare drums in Stainless Steel and Brass. Bringing a trusted design back into the 21st century - with a throw off that will outlive the batter head.

• A new limited production Stanton Moore / James Trussart SONO. Boom. Save your pennies, cause you won't be assembling this one at home in kit form.

• George Way kits. There will be 2 pre-production kits at NAMM. Way "Date" kits (I don't even have a working title for these yet), but they are based on the very popular Studio model architecture (4 ply shell / 4 ply re-rings) with shells made of all Walnut, Cherry or Birch plus Maple / Milkwood / Maple. These kits are going to be premium - made in Canada, with a hardware groupo that is consistent with the original George Way Tuxedo lug drum kits (instead of mix and match generic / off-the-shelf jobber parts). Continuity and quality. George would have loved these. Along with the kits...I'll be rolling out an artist program as well. Not an endorsement schpeel, but a program.

NAMM is just the start. I'm going to be rolling out product all year long as have have this past year.

And yes - I'm still mastering the finest bass drum pedal ever. It'll happen, one way or another.

If you're going to be at NAMM make sure you come by - located in "Hall D's Rodeo Drive" - Paiste, Craviotto, Dunnett, Way, Acoutin, Crescent, Joyful Noise, Stanton Moore Drum Co..
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  #66  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:02 AM
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Crush will show a new series too.
Lugs seem pretty bulky :(

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Save your pennies, cause you won't be assembling this one at home in kit form.
;) ;) ;)
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  #67  
Old 12-21-2013, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Crush really needs to get some colors for their acrylic line....i just might buy one if they do.
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

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While the heads themselves are only a few dollars per head, there is the labor of shipping heads from the head factory to the drum factory, paying some one to un pack the heads, sort them into appropriate piles, putting the heads into the box with the drum kit, keep track of head inventory, etc, and it ads up over time.
In Ludwig's case, the heads are made in one end of the factory. They need only put them on a cart and wheel them over to the packing area. This is assuming Ludwig will supply their own heads with the Signet kit, although it still may be less expensive to import Asian-made heads.

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I don't know for sure but I think Remo makes the Ludwig branded heads. If that's the case, I doubt Remo would like the idea of Ludwig selling Evans heads with a kit.
Ludwig makes their own heads in the Monroe factory, except for heads supplied with Asian-made drums, which are alternately made by Remo Taiwan, and an Evans branded head. The US Keystones are shipped with US Evans heads, and Legacy and Classic Maple shipped with Ludwig's Weathermasters.

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  #69  
Old 12-21-2013, 08:18 PM
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In Ludwig's case, the heads are made in one end of the factory. They need only put them on a cart and wheel them over to the packing area. This is assuming Ludwig will supply their own heads with the Signet kit, although it still may be less expensive to import Asian-made heads.



Ludwig makes their own heads in the Monroe factory, except for heads supplied with Asian-made drums, which are alternately made by Remo Taiwan, and an Evans branded head. The US Keystones are shipped with US Evans heads, and Legacy and Classic Maple shipped with Ludwig's Weathermasters.

Bermuda
Sunluck is planning to introduce "Kit Factory" at NAMM. Instead of getting shells and hardware that the buyers assembles, the kit includes a shell die, a gallon of glue, a single element hot plate, a 2 pound brick of Zmax, a "cookie" tray parts mould and a can of silver paint.

The concept is simply brilliant. You can use whatever wood you want to make the shell, just apply plenty of glue and wrap it around the die. While that is drying you heat up the hot plate and with the disposable pan, melt the Zmax and pour the molten liquid into the parts mould. Apply paint when cool. eVoila! You have a drum kit that you truly made yourself.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Interesting idea with that kit factoy, Ron.
Also looking forward to the pedal you will make. *curious

That finish could be ash?
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  #71  
Old 12-21-2013, 08:34 PM
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Crush really needs to get some colors for their acrylic line....i just might buy one if they do.
I have it on very good authority,that red acrylics will be offered...very soon.Save your wampum .:)

Steve B
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  #72  
Old 12-21-2013, 09:06 PM
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The concept is simply brilliant. You can use whatever wood you want to make the shell, just apply plenty of glue and wrap it around the die. While that is drying you heat up the hot plate and with the disposable pan, melt the Zmax and pour the molten liquid into the parts mould. Apply paint when cool. eVoila!
And that differs from most drum manufacture how exactly? ;)

Of course, the fact that the glue was once sniffed by someone north of Mexico makes it entirely USA crafted.

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and a can of silver paint.
Ronn, you're a very naughty boy! ;) ;) ;)
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  #73  
Old 12-21-2013, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Is NAMM the same kind of deal as the London Drum Show? Dozens of maniacs hammering away at max speed and volume simultaneously for a period each hour?

Will there be DW 'cliques' there? I understand that some have been quite concerned about them ;-)
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  #74  
Old 12-21-2013, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

I think Ludwig's idea is brilliant. I would buy that in a heartbeat to get great shells at a low price. You only have to assemble it once. Of course I don't make my own drums so I don't feel the need to insult Ludwig 'cause they may have a good idea that will catch on. ;)
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  #75  
Old 12-21-2013, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunnett View Post
...and a can of silver paint.
Heh, just got a PM from FG3. :o
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  #76  
Old 12-21-2013, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Gretsch just shared this on their FB page. They say it will be set up for a lefty.

A Phil Collins signature kit with concert toms?
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  #77  
Old 12-21-2013, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Question is, is the 799.00 MAP price, MSRP, which we know no one sells them at. So maybe 599. 0r 499.00 which then puts them in the DIY and not really a professional kit. Just speculating.
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  #78  
Old 12-21-2013, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

The press release said "street", so... basically MAP.

For 4 (US-made not Keller) shells, and all hardware, that's a pretty great price! Unfortunately, I've forgotten some of the important details, such as plies & edges. :(

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  #79  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

I like the idea, it will be interesting to see how this goes down with the public/consumers.

The difference to IKEA will hopefully be that most of their products are made of sub-par materials and are designed to be assembled once, then to be thrown in the bin.

Ludwig on the other hand has been doing some very well thought out product research / development lately.
I'm curious to see how they are going to do the attachments and lugs snapping into place, design wise. I'm not worried about the quality, because if the new Atlas stuff is anything to go by it should be top notch.

Looking forward to seeing - and hearing - the end product. Hats off to Ludwig for bringing something new to the table!
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: NAMM 2014 rumors/whishes

Acoustic Drums (Yamaha)

A new high-end drum set with innovative construction technology and expressive tonal qualities (formally introduced January 23 at 9:45 a.m.).

Stage Custom Birch drum set redesigned with significant upgrades.

Electronic Drums

The new DTX502 series electronic drum sets incorporate a laser-enhanced playing experience.

DTX Electronic Drums accessories packaging demystifies the purchase of electronic drum set components.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/12/prweb11435871.htm
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