DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Other Gear

Other Gear Discuss Hardware and all other equipment not covered in the other topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-14-2013, 07:56 AM
masonni's Avatar
masonni masonni is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,354
Default Best mics for internal miking

Looking for some suggestions on internal mics.

I've been using a Beta 52 w/ the May internal mic system for many years now.
I love it, and it has and always will be a staple in my live performance.

For some time now I have wanted to install internal mics in my Toms, but I am at a loss as to what mics to use. Currently I own 2 Audix D2's and an Audix D4.
I was going to use the D2's in my 10" & 12" Toms and the D4 for my 16" Floor. (respectively getting a nother D4 for my 14" and maybe a D2 for my 13")

Randy May (founder of the May mic company) suggested that I use D4's in all of my rack toms and use kick mics in my Floors.
Not a bad idea, but it's expensive. I would have to buy 2 more D4's and 2 Bass Drum mics... lot-o-$ I don't have.

Wondering what the pros/cons would be to using the D2's I already have in the toms.
I'm thinking 10" & 12" get D2's, 13" gets a D4 and then maybe two inexpensive kick mics for the 14" & 16", but that leaves the question as to what kick mics?

Would a Shure PG52 or Audix F series be a good move?

Beta 52's and most standard kick mics (D112, D6, etc) are out of the budget at the moment. But I have found plenty of inexpensive bass drum mics online.
Good bargain to use as internal mics or not?
__________________
nickmason.org
facebook
Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:40 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 11,429
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

I think you should try an internal mic in a double-headed tom first before you commit. Remember Terry Bozzios' first instructional video from the 80s that he made after Missing Persons broke up? He had internal mics in those drums and it just wasn't a sound I liked. They sounded like liquid toms (for lack of a better description). This is probably why it's so popular in bass drums, but nobody attempts it in the other drums.

I think those Shure SM98 condensers on the gooseneck mounts clamped to the rim sound alot better.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-14-2013, 11:35 AM
AudioWonderland AudioWonderland is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 449
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

Search YouTube for a Thomas Lang video on the May system he installed on a home studio kit. He speaks to what mics he chose and has called of the sounds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrC-JruZ-hs

Last edited by AudioWonderland; 11-14-2013 at 10:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:38 PM
masonni's Avatar
masonni masonni is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,354
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

I'll check out those videos.

I read a lot of mixed reviews on internal mics, but a good number of them seem to be from guys who really didn't seem to have a lot of knowledge of drums. Mostly sound guys who do things one way all the time. Head selection, tuning, placement and mic selection, even the room your in all come into play with something like this. I find some sound engineers don't take the time to learn this kind of stuff, and unfortunately some drummers don't either.

Steven Perkins did a video for MAY with his internal mics and I remember liking the sound in that, but it can also be eq'ed all to hell, so who knows?
__________________
nickmason.org
facebook
Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:44 PM
drstrangefunk's Avatar
drstrangefunk drstrangefunk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Carolina del Norte
Posts: 402
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
Looking for some suggestions on internal mics.

I've been using a Beta 52 w/ the May internal mic system for many years now.
I love it, and it has and always will be a staple in my live performance.

For some time now I have wanted to install internal mics in my Toms, but I am at a loss as to what mics to use. Currently I own 2 Audix D2's and an Audix D4.
I was going to use the D2's in my 10" & 12" Toms and the D4 for my 16" Floor. (respectively getting a nother D4 for my 14" and maybe a D2 for my 13")

Randy May (founder of the May mic company) suggested that I use D4's in all of my rack toms and use kick mics in my Floors.
Not a bad idea, but it's expensive. I would have to buy 2 more D4's and 2 Bass Drum mics... lot-o-$ I don't have.

Wondering what the pros/cons would be to using the D2's I already have in the toms.
I'm thinking 10" & 12" get D2's, 13" gets a D4 and then maybe two inexpensive kick mics for the 14" & 16", but that leaves the question as to what kick mics?

Would a Shure PG52 or Audix F series be a good move?

Beta 52's and most standard kick mics (D112, D6, etc) are out of the budget at the moment. But I have found plenty of inexpensive bass drum mics online.
Good bargain to use as internal mics or not?
i have both the Beta 52 and the PG 52. i have not used either in live performance, but recording-wise i prefer the PG 52 for bass drum. i prefer the Beta 52 for bass guitar cabinet.

it seems to me that the PG 52 seems more focused. it's fuller and thus more punchy (but only if you want it punchy). the Beta 52 is more open (to my ears) and therefore does not catch the punch that the PG 52 does.

i have the whole PG 6 mic kit and i will say that i like it fine. i like the tom mics and bass drum mic. i prefer large condenser mics but the small conderser PG81's are ok.

it may be cheaper to pick them up individually and just get what you need. if you just get as many tom mics as you need and the PG 52 bass mic and skip the PG81 condensers you'll save a bit right there.

i have not used the PG kit internally but i think they would make a great choice for experimentation.
__________________
Can Someone Build Me A Zoom Video Recorder That Is Also A Phone ?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:05 AM
IDDrummer's Avatar
IDDrummer IDDrummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: I-Dee-Ho
Posts: 3,307
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

The only experience I have had with internal tom mics where someone else's kit, and I have to say I didn't care for the sound. Bo's description of "liquid" toms almost describes it. It was rather like the sound of a roto-tom vs a standard tom - less focused, a bit pingy sounding. I don't honestly know what mics he used.

Anyway, I would bet that is why Randy May recommends the D4. The response curve of that mic gives a dark, punchy sound. It's rather one-dimensional to my ear, but a lot of guys use them for "big" tom sounds. I can imagine they might work well.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:04 AM
latzanimal's Avatar
latzanimal latzanimal is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 787
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

The problem with most drummers who use internal mics is that they do not take the time to find the best position for the mics in the drums. I finally did this a couple years after having mine and I found that the best position was pointed at the bottom head. A year later, Modern Drummer tested a bunch of May mics and found the same thing, the mics sounded better pointed at the bottom heads.

Keep in mind that unless you drill the shells, you'll have the same sound unless you open the drum and move the mic. For live its great, for studio work, it can be a hinderance.

There are ways to mount the mics with using MayEA mics. A guy on another forum mounted a PG set in his kit and I like the way they sound.

I mounted EV408's in my toms and D112's in the floors and kicks. Haven't looked back.

Tommy Aldridge had May's in his kit on the Whitesnake DVD. They sounded like innertubes. He also had the mics pointing right at the top heads.

Nick, feel free to pm me with questions or for more info....
__________________
"Never take life too seriously, 'cause you'll never get out of it alive!!"
My Dirty Little
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:05 AM
Raelthomas's Avatar
Raelthomas Raelthomas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 119
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

I'm really not a fan of internal mic'ing.
I don't think it captures the resonance of the drum properly.
__________________
Pearl Masterworks Custom 4-ply Maple
Tama Starclassic Performer Birch
Sabian, Meinl, Paiste
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:11 AM
latzanimal's Avatar
latzanimal latzanimal is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 787
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

http://www.randallmay.com/videos.php
__________________
"Never take life too seriously, 'cause you'll never get out of it alive!!"
My Dirty Little
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:12 AM
latzanimal's Avatar
latzanimal latzanimal is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 787
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

RT, how much have you worked with internal micing?
__________________
"Never take life too seriously, 'cause you'll never get out of it alive!!"
My Dirty Little
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:25 AM
Raelthomas's Avatar
Raelthomas Raelthomas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 119
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

Quote:
Originally Posted by latzanimal View Post
RT, how much have you worked with internal micing?
I was about to chime back in and edit my post. Not much at all, to be honest. So I shouldn't be so brash - I have never really, properly, tried it myself. I just haven't heard any that I particularly liked.
__________________
Pearl Masterworks Custom 4-ply Maple
Tama Starclassic Performer Birch
Sabian, Meinl, Paiste
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:34 AM
latzanimal's Avatar
latzanimal latzanimal is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 787
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelthomas View Post
I was about to chime back in and edit my post. Not much at all, to be honest. So I shouldn't be so brash - I have never really, properly, tried it myself. I just haven't heard any that I particularly liked.
No too worry, I was just curious.

As I mentioned before, most drummers do not take the time to find the "sweet spot" when using internal mics... And then others hear them and they get a bad rap as sounding bad...
__________________
"Never take life too seriously, 'cause you'll never get out of it alive!!"
My Dirty Little
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:38 AM
Raelthomas's Avatar
Raelthomas Raelthomas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 119
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

It makes sense, I suppose within a drum there's a myriad of standing waves and dead and/or tonal spots - I kind of denied the idea because of some very bad examples that I saw, but I'm intrigued now. Seems like it would be an very, very fine line, though, room conditions aside.. Finding that sweet sweet spot.

Sorry, mini-hijack.. carry on ;)
__________________
Pearl Masterworks Custom 4-ply Maple
Tama Starclassic Performer Birch
Sabian, Meinl, Paiste
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:06 PM
latzanimal's Avatar
latzanimal latzanimal is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 787
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

Nick, look for used mics as well. I bought a D112 and a Beta 52 for $100 ea. They were both like new...
__________________
"Never take life too seriously, 'cause you'll never get out of it alive!!"
My Dirty Little
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-15-2013, 03:12 PM
AudioWonderland AudioWonderland is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 449
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelthomas View Post
It makes sense, I suppose within a drum there's a myriad of standing waves and dead and/or tonal spots - I kind of denied the idea because of some very bad examples that I saw, but I'm intrigued now. Seems like it would be an very, very fine line, though, room conditions aside.. Finding that sweet sweet spot.

Sorry, mini-hijack.. carry on ;)
And you have to pull the head for every tweak....
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-16-2013, 07:11 PM
masonni's Avatar
masonni masonni is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,354
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

I use a Beta 52 with the MAY system in my kick right now.
I've gotten nothing but compliments from sound guys and I love the way it sounds.
Don't work for recording, but I also don't use the same kit for recording that I do live.

I spent a lot of time watching videos from MAY artists the other day, I don't mind the sound of the toms, but I think I would have to spend some time with tuning and placement to get that sweet spot. Maybe mount the mic near the reso head, but still pointed at the batter, like I do with the kick?

The one thing that I know across the board is not to do this on the snare!
I have met a few guys who use an internal 57 on the snare and it always sounds bad.

I'm going to keep my eyes open for more D4's and kick drum mics online. Maybe I'll get lucky and find some cheep ones.
__________________
nickmason.org
facebook
Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-21-2013, 08:17 AM
latzanimal's Avatar
latzanimal latzanimal is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 787
Default Re: Best mics for internal miking

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
The one thing that I know across the board is not to do this on the snare!
I have met a few guys who use an internal 57 on the snare and it always sounds bad.
The trick with using one in your snare is to treat the internal mic as a bottom mic and mic the top on the outside. With the internal mic facing the snare wires, you do not have any phase problems in conjunction with the top mic...

My sweet spot for my tom mics was mounted on the bottom lugs facing the logo....
__________________
"Never take life too seriously, 'cause you'll never get out of it alive!!"
My Dirty Little
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com