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  #1  
Old 11-05-2013, 02:39 AM
cg2112 cg2112 is offline
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Default Pro-Mark change?

I've been using Pro-Mark American Hickory 5A's for a long time. I bought a four pack of sticks the other day, and noticed something peculiar. The sticks felt lighter to me, lighter than I like to play with. I compared one to an older stick, and I could definitely feel a weight difference. Gave them to my wife, and asked her if she noticed anything about them, and she noticed one stick was significantly lighter (she's not a drummer).

I've gone to a few different places and held the same sticks there, and they feel lighter. Anyone play with these sticks and noticed this?
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:20 PM
Librarian Drummer Librarian Drummer is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

I have noticed the situation with Vater 5A also.
Thus I prefer choose sticks by manipulating them in the store, both for Pro-Mark and Vater hickory sticks. Recently I could find heavier pairs of Pro-Mark 5A ...but not as heavy as a pair bought some years ago, made of a "darker" wood.
Pro-Mark oak models seem more consistent in their weight and for them I may take a chance to buy online or in a pack.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2013, 02:13 AM
cg2112 cg2112 is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

I picked up some Vic Firth 5A (Hickory), and they seem to be weighted right for me.

I'm wondering if Pro-Mark changed their lacquer or something, which would definitely impact the weight. Oak sticks just seem to heavy to me.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Last I heard, Pro-Mark are making big improvements to their product since D'Addario took over their company as well as Evans products. I've always played D'Addario strings on my acoustic guitars, and I've played hickory 747 Rock sticks for years and will always have a pair lying around somewhere, I suppose. I have gotten a few bananas in the years past. I haven't experienced any weight issues though, but I've not bought a pair for quite awhile either. Been experimenting with some other brands like VF and Vater. I know I didn't like Zildjian sticks when I tried them awhile back, but now I hear they are being made by VF. So maybe they've improved too. Seems like everybody is trying to improve their products, but in doing so, some changes are being made. You may be experiencing one of the spec changes. IDK.
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  #5  
Old 11-10-2013, 07:42 AM
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masonni masonni is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

NEWS FLASH!

Drumsticks are wood... wood is an organic material... It comes in many weights, especially since it gets chopped up into dowels and then milled into a stick.

ALL drumstick brands have an "ideal" weight for each model stick.
A 5A's "ideal weight" might be around 5.0 grams per stick, while a 5B might be 6.0.
Each company is different.
That being said, you can get ALL your 5A's to be 5.0, depending on the slice of wood it may be heavier or lighter. So they weigh them and pair them up from -10 to +10 grams.
So you will get 5A's that are 4.0g and some that are 6.0g and everything in between.
They will typically be matched into pairs that are the same weight plus or minus 1-2 grams.
*by mixing them up in the store your destroying the fact that the factory already matched them within 1 or 2 grams, and probably sticking pairs together that are waaaay off.

But that's why some sticks will feel so much lighter than others. If you have been playing with a heavy 5A and then found yourself holding a pair that is 20 grams lighter you will notice a BIG change.

Doesn't mean they are making sticks any different, only that you got a pair that was lighter than before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
I know I didn't like Zildjian sticks when I tried them awhile back, but now I hear they are being made by VF. So maybe they've improved too.
Vic Firth has been making Zildjian's sticks LOOOOOONG before Zildjian bought them.
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2013, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
ALL drumstick brands have an "ideal" weight for each model stick.
A 5A's "ideal weight" might be around 5.0 grams per stick, while a 5B might be 6.0.
Each company is different.
Are you talking about the weight of the drumstick or the variation in weight, 5.0 grams for a 5A is ridiculously light, it will be easily above the 100 grams mark...


Vic Firth 7A American Hickory is a light jazz drumstick, but it's weight is already much more than 5 grams.

Tip: Wood
Item Weight: 91 g
Product Dimensions: 1.3 x 39.4 x 3 cm
Item model number: 7A
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2013, 02:11 PM
jornthedrummer jornthedrummer is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

They don't have the Ringo Starr stick anymore.

No good!
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2013, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
Vic Firth has been making Zildjian's sticks LOOOOOONG before Zildjian bought them.
Ahhh, thanks. I'm no expert on the ins and outs of these companies. Ya, for whatever reason, Zildjian sticks broke on me really quick, and I, being the tight wad that I am, ain't gonna be buying that brand if they don't work for me. I like their cymbals though. No problem there.
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Old 11-10-2013, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

I used to really love ProMark sticks when they had the lacquer finish. Once they changed to the millenium 2 finish, I found the finish to slick and my hands would cramp due to having the grip the sticks too hard.

I have switched to Regal Tip and couldn't be happier. Love the finish on the Regal Tip sticks.
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:29 AM
cg2112 cg2112 is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post

Doesn't mean they are making sticks any different, only that you got a pair that was lighter than before.
I've been playing with these sticks for years, I've gone through literally hundreds of pairs. In all that time I've never noticed a weight difference, it's been incredibly consistant, and suddenly, about a month ago, every pair I've held from multiple retailers have felt lighter. I've purchased two four packs, all of them were lighter, I've checked sticks at two different Guitar Centers, a Sam Ash, and even Best Buy, all lighter. It's not just a matter of getting a lighter pair of sticks. It's more a matter of the sticks being consistent over the course of many years, and now, apparently, still consistent, but notably lighter, in all pairs I've tried.
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
Are you talking about the weight of the drumstick or the variation in weight, 5.0 grams for a 5A is ridiculously light, it will be easily above the 100 grams mark...


Vic Firth 7A American Hickory is a light jazz drumstick, but it's weight is already much more than 5 grams.

Tip: Wood
Item Weight: 91 g
Product Dimensions: 1.3 x 39.4 x 3 cm
Item model number: 7A
What? You must mean a pair of sticks? A single drumstick weighs about 50 grams.
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2013, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

As I don't own a gram scale the numbers I used are just examples.

however the fact stays the same that sticks are matched in a pair withing 1 or 2 grams of one another and have a plus or minus weight of 10 grams. You wouldn't think so but something as small as 2-3 grams is a huge difference. If you held two sticks, one that was 20 grams lighter than the other it would be like a 7A vs. a marching stick even though they are the same model.

Sometimes shipments of wood come though the factories that maybe has more lighter or heavier wood in it. That means whole batches of sticks can end up on the light or heavy side. It's not ideal, but when dealing with an organic material it happens.
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2013, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

I just read on Drum! magazine that ProMark has come out with a new line of sticks called Select Balance. It's wood tip sticks for now, nylons soon to come. The idea is to provide a forward balanced stick and a rebound balanced stick in 5 of the most popular diameters, from .535" to .595". They didn't mention anything about the lengths of the sticks though. They will be quarter-sawn, weight matched to within 1.5 grams, and tone sorted to within 6 hertz of each other, which is supposed to be the best in the industry. Also, the tip is teardrop style. I sound like an advertisement...sorry.

They just became available today. I'm going to pro-mark online to check them out.
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  #14  
Old 11-20-2013, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

I do know they changed the nylon tip design, which I'm not a fan of, and I don't know about the quality, but I haven't been happy with that either. I bought 2 pair online through Amazon, and both pair were broken within a week. They split right down the middle. I wrote Pro Mark, they sent 3 free replacement pairs, and 2 out of three pairs are already broken, including one of the tips completely breaking off and smacking me in the face. Ive been using Pro Marks for ten years, but the quality has been lacking severely, and I'm getting ready for a switch. anyone else have problems like this?
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2013, 03:36 PM
Daddariopercussion Daddariopercussion is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Hello All,
I wanted to shed a little light on the drumstick weight subject. When using a raw material like Hickory, Oak, or maple you are going to get a wide variety of dowels from a tree ranging in weight. This is way we spend so much time carefully sorting by weight and pitch. We are pairing sticks together in a sleeve to be the same weight within 1.5 grams and within a quarter tones of each other. Feel free to check out this video on our manufacturing methods.
@cg2112 Please email me Daddariopercussion@daddario.com I would like to get you a new pair of 5A's. We have just completely re built our entire manufacturing method. It sounds like you have some old stock.

@jornthedrummer The 5AL is still in the line if you are intrested http://www.promark.com/pmProductDeta...17&productid=9

@blastbeatkeeper I am so sorry for what you have gone through. Can you write me with your information. Daddariopercussion@daddario.com
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  #16  
Old 02-06-2014, 03:25 PM
Yoshinya Yoshinya is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeatkeeper View Post
I do know they changed the nylon tip design, which I'm not a fan of, and I don't know about the quality, but I haven't been happy with that either. I bought 2 pair online through Amazon, and both pair were broken within a week. They split right down the middle. I wrote Pro Mark, they sent 3 free replacement pairs, and 2 out of three pairs are already broken, including one of the tips completely breaking off and smacking me in the face. Ive been using Pro Marks for ten years, but the quality has been lacking severely, and I'm getting ready for a switch. anyone else have problems like this?
I too, had the same problem. It seems they've changed the type of nylon material used for the tips in the past year, as it's no longer glossy and translucent. Now it's more of a softer, matte opaque material.

I sent pictures of the defective sticks (about 6 pair worth) to Promark and got a 6 pair brick of replacement sticks in return. Same problems. I feel it has something to do with the new nub that the tip attaches to, as well.

It sucks, because I love my Hickory 747 Nylons so much, but I can't rely on them to not have the tips fly off a fresh pair (one song into a set!), so I've switched to the both the Hickory and Oak 747 Wood Tips.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jornthedrummer View Post
They don't have the Ringo Starr stick anymore.

No good!
The Ringo signature stick is now on the Zildjian Brand.
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  #18  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:00 PM
Yoshinya Yoshinya is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Ah, but Daddariopercussion said that they still have the Ringo model available, 5AL, without Ringo's signature.

http://www.promark.com/pmProductDeta...y_5AL_Wood_Tip

Same thing with Carter Beauford, when he left for Vic Firth. Promark still makes the 5Ab model. It just doesn't carry Carter's signature anymore.

http://www.promark.com/pmProductDeta...y_5Ab_Wood_Tip

Last edited by Yoshinya; 02-08-2014 at 04:47 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2014, 09:53 PM
Daddariopercussion Daddariopercussion is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Hello,
Thank you so much for trying the select balance sticks. We are so happy to hear that you enjoyed them. As far as your other concerns, were the sticks you rolled and found warped with old logos? We are trying to work through as much of the old stock as possible but before the D’Addario merger with Promark there were a lot of outstanding quality issues. We are doing our best to retrieve old product that doesn't function back but of course there is some we won't get to. Please feel free to reach out to me directly or tell a store associate to contact us if your problems are encountered in the stores. What you have experienced with the select balance is the New Promark and what you experienced in the stores is the old Promark. As for finding more variety of the line, Guitar Center selects a set amount of sku's for all of their locations. So finding anything outside of what is offered on the wall has to be added on their end. We have made the entire catalog available. What I can do is find a dealer local to you that can stock models you are looking for if you provide your address to us. Daddariopercussion@daddario.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by beatfreak83 View Post
I have been going back and forth between stick brands quite often. I am now back with Pro Mark. Their Select Balance sticks are great! They finally solved the quality control issues that have been plaguing them over the last few years. The pair I tried were straight, smooth and solid! I hope the apply the same manufacturing methods to their other sticks as well. I have a few things I need to say about their sticks, though. The other day, I was in my local shop that carries some Pro Mark models that I like. I prefer to buy them in person so I can roll them, but unfortunately I can't get anything in my area except some standard models and a few signature models. Guitar Center only carries the Joey Jordison, Neil Peart and Mike Portnoy models and some Naturals models. It sucks because I really like the Marco Minnemann, Dom Howard and the Joe Morello models too, but I have to order them online, which is risky because most stores are still selling "old stock" sticks that are usually warped. My local shop carries the Simon Phillips, Paul Wertico and Steve Ferrone models. I had to go through about 10 pairs of each model before I found ONE pair that was straight. Every other pair was warped. Is there ANY way to get my store to (1) send back the defective sticks for replacements, and (2) stock MORE Pro Mark stick models?? With ALL the sticks Pro Mark makes, the stores should be carrying a more diverse selection. What is Pro Mark doing to solve this problem?
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:32 PM
Daddariopercussion Daddariopercussion is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

We have changed our method of manufacturing the nylon tips. Instead of having a press on tip that gets glued on, we now injection mold our tips. The nylon tips that were originally used were hard brittle plastic that would fail quite often. With the injection molding process we now mold liquid nylon around the end of the stick for maximum strength. This process has also allowed us to match the profile of our wood tip and nylon tip models. In order for the old press on tip to fit on the stick we would have to increase the diameter of the neck on the stick to have a semi secure fit. This would change the shape and feel of the stick completey. Now with the injection molding process the wood tip and nylon tip models are now identical. The sticks will no doubt be different then the older versions but they will last longer and function better in the line. If you have other questions please feel free to email me direct daddariopercussion@daddario.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshinya View Post
I too, had the same problem. It seems they've changed the type of nylon material used for the tips in the past year, as it's no longer glossy and translucent. Now it's more of a softer, matte opaque material.

I sent pictures of the defective sticks (about 6 pair worth) to Promark and got a 6 pair brick of replacement sticks in return. Same problems. I feel it has something to do with the new nub that the tip attaches to, as well.

It sucks, because I love my Hickory 747 Nylons so much, but I can't rely on them to not have the tips fly off a fresh pair (one song into a set!), so I've switched to the both the Hickory and Oak 747 Wood Tips.
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:13 PM
Yoshinya Yoshinya is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddariopercussion View Post
We have changed our method of manufacturing the nylon tips. Instead of having a press on tip that gets glued on, we now injection mold our tips. The nylon tips that were originally used were hard brittle plastic that would fail quite often. With the injection molding process we now mold liquid nylon around the end of the stick for maximum strength. This process has also allowed us to match the profile of our wood tip and nylon tip models. In order for the old press on tip to fit on the stick we would have to increase the diameter of the neck on the stick to have a semi secure fit. This would change the shape and feel of the stick completey. Now with the injection molding process the wood tip and nylon tip models are now identical. The sticks will no doubt be different then the older versions but they will last longer and function better in the line. If you have other questions please feel free to email me direct daddariopercussion@daddario.com
I mean no disrespect, but in my experience, this new manufacturing technique has not proven to make the sticks stronger, or the tips last longer. Quite the contrary.

If anything, I have had tips on the newer replacement 6 pairs that were sent out to me shatter into two pieces and fly off more often than with the old nylon material. When they didn't do that, the whole tip would break off (wood nub included) at the new indentation. All the sticks broke in some manner having to do with the tips and being weakened by the new design.

I'm not trying to dog on Promark. I love Promark, and I love the 747s. I just want to see this manufacturing/design error rectified in some manner, so I can go back to buying more of what version of the stick I used to prefer.
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  #22  
Old 02-10-2014, 04:21 PM
CCdrummer CCdrummer is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

I too noticed a big change in my promark 5B's. So they have changed them or we are all experiencing a large shipment of less dense wood I guess. I actually like the lighter feel, actually felt like it was a better balance.
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  #23  
Old 02-24-2014, 02:38 PM
Daddariopercussion Daddariopercussion is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Can we speak about this issue? I have a bunch of questions about your playing situation how long these are lasting. daddariopercussion@daddario.com
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshinya View Post
I mean no disrespect, but in my experience, this new manufacturing technique has not proven to make the sticks stronger, or the tips last longer. Quite the contrary.

If anything, I have had tips on the newer replacement 6 pairs that were sent out to me shatter into two pieces and fly off more often than with the old nylon material. When they didn't do that, the whole tip would break off (wood nub included) at the new indentation. All the sticks broke in some manner having to do with the tips and being weakened by the new design.

I'm not trying to dog on Promark. I love Promark, and I love the 747s. I just want to see this manufacturing/design error rectified in some manner, so I can go back to buying more of what version of the stick I used to prefer.
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2014, 07:18 PM
Yoshinya Yoshinya is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Mark change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddariopercussion View Post
Can we speak about this issue? I have a bunch of questions about your playing situation how long these are lasting. daddariopercussion@daddario.com
Thanks
Absolutely. Emailed you a few days ago. I hope I can help somehow? In the meantime, I'll keep rocking the wood tip 747s. I'm pretty gun-shy now after burning through about 18 pair of the nylon tip model, when I hadn't made any changes to my playing or my gigging/recording schedule.
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