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  #1  
Old 10-08-2013, 03:47 AM
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Default The generation that the doctors betrayed

Larry's posts on another thread got me thinking.

For anyone born in the 1960's here in America, we were betrayed by the doctors and big business.

The Space Age was in full swing. We were so advanced that we were convinced that we had bested nature.

Our mothers were told not to breast feed because "formula was better". The formula that was essentially sugar, starch and water.

Our baby food was just as bad. Sugary gunk with no nutritional value.

Trans fats replaced the essential oils in our diet because they lasted indefinitely on the shelves.

Fiber? We don't need no stinking fiber!

Our parents smoked, as a matter of fact, almost every adult smoked and we were just expected to breathe it in.

Our breakfasts were high glycemic carbs and fatty processed meats.

Our generation got the frozen TV dinners, the Twinkies, the soda and the fruit juice from concentrate. I remember mixing the semi-solid concentrate goo with water to "make orange juice".

Our fruits and vegetables (when we actually had any) were covered in pesticides.

I could go on.

Contrast that to today. My daughter was breast fed, eats organic food and takes essential fatty acid supplements.

Yeah, we got screwed.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:14 AM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

I don't disagree with you (it was similar in the UK only not as "good") but I think you're overlooking the "brave new world" aspect. I incline towards the view that in the 60s and early 70s, the prevailing desire was to improve upon Nature. Only subsequently, when it was discovered that Nature knew best yet these products continued to proliferate, were we being cynically and deliberately screwed.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post

Yeah, we got screwed.
I'm born in 1962, but I don't agree. My generation enjoyed plenty of technology the previous ones did not. But then hey, I entered the work force during the first of the big recessions....not a good time.
Every generation has a beef about the other generations before or after it. At the end of the day...you gotta move on...and get up for the next day.

Look on the bright side. You got all your drums, right?!
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

This is an inspiration! Well said brother...

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
At the end of the day...you gotta move on...and get up for the next day.

Look on the bright side. You got all your drums, right?!
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Today's generation has Bieber, so it all balances out. ;)
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2013, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Today's generation has Bieber, so it all balances out. ;)
A most valid point.

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Originally Posted by Ian Williams View Post
This is an inspiration! Well said brother...
Ian - so good to see you here, I hope all is well with you :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
I don't disagree with you (it was similar in the UK only not as "good") but I think you're overlooking the "brave new world" aspect. I incline towards the view that in the 60s and early 70s, the prevailing desire was to improve upon Nature. Only subsequently, when it was discovered that Nature knew best yet these products continued to proliferate, were we being cynically and deliberately screwed.
I think that's a fair balance on the subject Madge.


Jeff, I agree, it's not good, but I have no reason to complain. Firstly, I still smoke, so any credibility regarding care of my own welfare is out of the window. I ate well as a child too. Although these shitty additives were around at that time (but not on a USA level), my parents simply couldn't afford the premium attached to these new "better" food products. We ate red meat once a week (all local), + a lot of rabbit & pidgeon, together with vegetables grown locally on small holdings. So, by default, I dodged that bullet. Ok, my mother cooked the crap out of them, but that's another story :)
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

I was born in June of 67....The Summer of Love, baby!....and I don't like my veggies not because I wasn't given them but because I was forced to eat them. At every dinner we had to have at least a " no thank you helping" of everything that was on the table, especially veggies. You didn't get up from the table until you did. Becoming an adult was glorious for me because it meant I'd never have to eat another Brussels sprout again! And I won't...

I think every generation has something detrimental but hopefully the scientific advances outweigh the bad. I'm fascinated by anything space related....I grew up watching the shuttles and seeing man living in space on the space station. I feel sorry for our generations today who are missing out on such things because space exploration isn't deemed important enough. And think of the health advances we are missing out on of because of it.

It's always something. But I wouldn't change being born in this time. Look at what our generation has witnessed. Where we've come in the last 40 years has been amazing!
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Follow the money. Before the 60's most women didn't work and stayed home during the day. Credit cards rolled around and now we needed two salalries to pay the bills. So Mom was working and anything that was quick and easy danything that was proper. TV dinners, fast food, etc. In an effort to be better we produced the opposite result.
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Larry's posts on another thread got me thinking.

For anyone born in the 1960's here in America, we were betrayed by the doctors and big business.

The Space Age was in full swing. We were so advanced that we were convinced that we had bested nature.

Our mothers were told not to breast feed because "formula was better". The formula that was essentially sugar, starch and water.

Our baby food was just as bad. Sugary gunk with no nutritional value.

Trans fats replaced the essential oils in our diet because they lasted indefinitely on the shelves.

Fiber? We don't need no stinking fiber!

Our parents smoked, as a matter of fact, almost every adult smoked and we were just expected to breathe it in.

Our breakfasts were high glycemic carbs and fatty processed meats.

Our generation got the frozen TV dinners, the Twinkies, the soda and the fruit juice from concentrate. I remember mixing the semi-solid concentrate goo with water to "make orange juice".

Our fruits and vegetables (when we actually had any) were covered in pesticides.

I could go on.

Contrast that to today. My daughter was breast fed, eats organic food and takes essential fatty acid supplements.

Yeah, we got screwed.
I dont know about this, Jeff.

If you compare that with the rest of the world growing up around that time, this list seems like a Club Class ride.


...
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

I drink beer, I eat fast food, I smoke a little pot, I dont exercise enough, I sit on the couch for hours at a time, I drink energy drinks, I eat microwave dinners, but most of all I am HAPPY!

Instead of worrying about being healthy, worry about being happy. Whoppers are delicious! If eating one takes a few years off my life so be it, I dont want to live forever. My knees hurt at 40, I dont even want to think about 80. I'm not part of the brainwashed masses. I know high fructose corn syrup is bad for me, but it tastes awesome. So excuse me while I finish my cup of coffee and eat my fatty breakfast sandwich.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

I was born in '64, and I agree with all the points except the last one, that "we got screwed." There were some good things about being born in the 60's. I saw the Stones and Zep in the mid 70's, and I got some great years with the Grateful Dead. But yes, the rise of agribusiness in that time has been highly detrimental to our society. Twinkies, Hohos, Yoohoos. We ate that shit. And loved it.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Maybe "betrayed" was a strong term. I understand that in some ways it was worse before and also elsewhere but when taken as a whole, the American medical system and its hubris definitely did the people a disservice.

Does anyone think that the food companies actually believed that sugar and starch mixed with water was better than mothers milk? No, they knew it was a lie from the outset. Just the same way that the tobacco companies knew that smoking causes cancer yet they fought to keep that info under wraps.

The docs happily accepted monies from those companies to play along.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q4OHQJ0_gQ&noredirect=1
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

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Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Does anyone think that the food companies actually believed that sugar and starch mixed with water was better than mothers milk? No, they knew it was a lie from the outset. Just the same way that the tobacco companies knew that smoking causes cancer yet they fought to keep that info under wraps.

The docs happily accepted monies from those companies to play along.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q4OHQJ0_gQ&noredirect=1
Shame on the people for believing the facade. If we are stupid enough to take whatever is being fed to us, we are as much to blame as the people feeding this crap to us. TBH, I have no problem with people wanting to get rich. I just have a problem with them lying and putting us in a compromising position to gain that wealth. That's morally bankrupt. They could get just as rich feeding us stuff that is good for us. That's the part I have the problem with.
Think about it, if they did right by us, we would have nothing to be angry about. Everybody wins. Instead, they pollute it with outright lies and deception. They would be considered great if they went the other way. Who is considered great today?
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

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Does anyone think that the food companies actually believed that sugar and starch mixed with water was better than mothers milk?
I think that in the early days they were trying to provide an alternative that women would jump at because it liberated them - which it did.

I don't know of anybody who has come to significant harm from being bottle-fed. I'm still here, at least. The main issue that I have with bottle-feeding back in the day is that most women I know who were mothers at that time were told that they couldn't breast-feed because they didn't have enough milk, and they accepted this without question.

My kids didn't have a bottle until they were 12 months old, but I think formula milk is a wonderful invention. Not every woman can or even wants to feed her children herself.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Today is no different than the 1960s.

Why, in thousands of years in human history, would we be so arrogant to think that we've arrived at any real "truths" today? What makes now so special? Do we really think that in 50 years we're going to look back and not debunk some of the information we're accepting as fact right now? That we're going to discover that 2013 was when we became enlightened? What are the odds of that, really?

We're no different today. Someone tells us organic food is better for us, and we believe it. I guess it just "feels right," or something, so it must be true. That there's no evidence to support the claims is beside the point, I guess. Critical thought is hard to come by anymore, it seems. Opinions are all treated as equal. Nobody has to prove anything, it's all subjective. Science is too scary.

Don't trust the doctors. Except for people like Dr. Bob Sears, he's okay. You can trust him. He's smart, and he looks fantastic in neutral-colored shirts. He must be right. He's not in it for the money. Except the books he's selling. And the talk-show appearances. And the celebrity status. No conflict of interest at all. Certainly not preying on the fears of people, or taking advantage of their paranoia. Nope. Just our best interests at heart. Why can't they all be like him?

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Old 10-08-2013, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

If I needed to exist at any point in history to benefit from medical technology - today is my choice. We have stuff that's ridiculous.

A very, very, very special and unique procedure, with special machines done by a special doctor saved my wife's life by removing an almost unheard of tumor on the base of her brain.

Do I feel betrayed - nope.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

I agree with much of the OP's rant. With exception of the pesticides. Yes they were used heavily, but they still are today. One good thing the US gov't did was create the Organic Label which prohibits pesticides and more importantly GMO genetically modified junk.

Today, conventional medical doctors are still betraying us by pushing vaccines like candy and are so entwined with the pharm industry that it's pathetic.

"Ask your doctor how he/she can get you on a prescription drug for life....".

Organic, healthy diet with juicing and nutritional supplements and adequate daily cardio exercise can cure almost any ailment. Sleep, no drugs or other junk.

Yeah you're gonna die some way, but why not stick around longer to see your grandkids, or just to enjoy life?
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

In a society that values $50 or 500 million dollar athletes and executives who contribute nothing to society, versus a salaried $250k doctor who creates miracles, betrayal must be part of the game.

And to those who value technological, medical and otherwise advancements so highly, I suggest watching this documentary if you haven't already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rnJE...t=HL1381249589
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

I'm in the "we are lucky" camp.

Yes, there's tons of BS but it seems to me that as humans born in middle class modern society we are amongst the .0000000000001% (give or take) luckiest organisms ever born on the planet - going back billions of years.

So many poor creatures dying prematurely by having their guts sucked out ... not to mention all the early people plagued with parasites, harmful superstitions, blood sacrifices, slavery, corruption that makes our modern western dodginess look like child's play ... then in other societies today some of the above with all manner of atrocities committed on innocents etc etc.

Then, for young people today there is an uncertain future with more and more people striving to get ever larger portions of a rapidly decreasing resource pie.

We have so much to be grateful for ... but we still grumble. Me too. Even though I know all this, I can't seem to internalise it enough to be as serene about life as I logically should be.

I guess we're only human ... outrageously lucky humans but still with all the same old flaws.

Eat mostly plants. Exercise hard. Take time out to reflect. Be kind. Engage in your passions as much as your obligations allow. Try not to dwell on the BS ... all easier said than done but I think that might be the way to go.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:22 PM
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I'm in the "we are lucky" camp.

Yes, there's tons of BS but it seems to me that as humans born in middle class modern society we are amongst the .0000000000001% (give or take) luckiest organisms ever born on the planet - going back billions of years.

So many poor creatures dying prematurely by having their guts sucked out ... not to mention all the early people plagued with parasites, harmful superstitions, blood sacrifices, slavery, corruption that makes our modern western dodginess look like child's play ... then in other societies today some of the above with all manner of atrocities committed on innocents etc etc.

Then, for young people today there is an uncertain future with more and more people striving to get ever larger portions of a rapidly decreasing resource pie.

We have so much to be grateful for ... but we still grumble. Me too. Even though I know all this, I can't seem to internalise it enough to be as serene about life as I logically should be.

I guess we're only human ... outrageously lucky humans but still with all the same old flaws.

Eat mostly plants. Exercise hard. Take time out to reflect. Be kind. Engage in your passions as much as your obligations allow. Try not to dwell on the BS ... all easier said than done but I think that might be the way to go.
Much wisdom here Grea...

My summation is I'll bet some of the grumblers here (perhaps not all) have never been put to the test about what it means to benefit from modern day medical technology.

Have your own 2 year old child or perhaps a spouse/significant other whose life hangs in the balance based on what is and isn't possible. If - and I say if the outcome ends up favorable, then let's revisit this topic.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

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Today is no different than the 1960s.

We're no different today. Someone tells us organic food is better for us, and we believe it. I guess it just "feels right," or something, so it must be true. That there's no evidence to support the claims is beside the point, I guess. Critical thought is hard to come by anymore, it seems. Opinions are all treated as equal. Nobody has to prove anything, it's all subjective. Science is too scary.

[/IMG]
Awww... Come on 8Mile! If you read it on the internet or saw it on TV, it MUST be true.

Apparently common sense isn't a flower that grows in some folks' gardens anymore. ;-) That's why I'm moving back home to Rogers City, MI. Up there, they can't afford to grow anything else!
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

the doctors themselves were using. eating, smoking all of the same things we were. Who remembers "9 out of 10 Doctors smoke Camels" Or Recommend Camels. I think people are a little slow on the uptake. Do we really need products on the shelves with 38% of the salt per helping in the product. We have gotten so use to the taste of salt that was used for a preservative back in the day that we now have to have enough of it in a can of soup to preserve it for 5 years. Does anything sit on any grocery shelf for 5 years? NO. Read the labels, watch out for yourself, and don't depend on the Governments misinformation to protect you. Watch the movie Fatso if you want the truth on food, chloestrol etc. A real eye opener. I work at a hospital and see and hear things every day that surprise me. I don't feel betrayed as much as I feel uninformed. And I can't blame anyone for that but me.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
If I needed to exist at any point in history to benefit from medical technology - today is my choice. We have stuff that's ridiculous.

A very, very, very special and unique procedure, with special machines done by a special doctor saved my wife's life by removing an almost unheard of tumor on the base of her brain.

Do I feel betrayed - nope.
I totally agree with you on this David. I have no problem with the surgeons, and everyone connected with this kind of thing. I single out the pill pushing health robbing doctors. Of course, how your wife got that tumor in the first place is really the issue.. Thank god they were able to save her. This is where medicine is awesome. Still, preventing that tumor is better than the alternative. If humans came with a care and feeding manual, very little of what we put in and on our bodies would be included in it.

My mom is 82, not in great health, and right now has bad bronchitis. They gave her antibiotics and steroids. Steroids? Isn't her liver having a tough enough time battling the bronchitis? I asked her what the steroids were for and she said she didn't know. I'm sure the doctor would say so any inflammation would subside, but geez at what cost? This is more what I'm talking about. She's not in good health as it is and he feels it's OK to tax her system with steroids? He even told her, don't take them too long because that's bad. Lol. But she's entrenched in the system. You can't change peoples minds.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Most people in positions of authority, especially in the medical and scientific communities, do the very best they can with the information they have at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20 and its very easy to point and blame others in the past. But the fact is that knowledge and experience drive decision making, not loosely tested hypothesis, and controversy, and secrecy.

There wasn't enough evidence to convince the people making decisions and the public that pesticides, the casual consumption of alcohol and tobacco, transfats, cholesterol, simple carbohydrates, etc. could be dangerous in the long term. Very few people knew better.

Today there is just as much if not more uncertainty on the "heathiness" of the Western lifestyle...

Sure, pesticides may not be ideal, but I can't imagine what science experiment farmers are spraying on their "organic" foods, bleh. Organic foods lose every time in blind taste tests to standard grow foods. They are more expensive for no good reason. Organic food production does not stimulate the economy.

We still don't really understand what causes the slippery slope of cholesterol and heart disease. Its more prevalent now than it ever has been and we are arguably healthier than any generation of people since the industrial revolution. Paleolithic man ate a very high cholesterol, high saturated fat diet, but that period in human evolution saw the greatest increase in brain size and life expectancy, and heart disease wasn't even heard of. So what does it really mean to be healthy? That's a question we've trying to answer for a long time. The food pyramid used to be all the rage but now that's out the window.

The book is still open on gmo's, marijuana, etc, the list goes on.

Just my two cents.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Wow, I almost wish I had never started this thread.

I know that we are lucky to have some of the incredible medical advances of the past century or so. Some of you might recall a thread in which I discussed my recent surgery and how, after years of trying alternative therapies, I finally had the surgery and my issue was handled. In that thread I mentioned how I was annoyed that the doc was late to my initial appointment until I found out that he was late because he was busy reattaching the arm of a construction worker. Talk about an attitude adjustment.

For the longest time, the domain of the doctor has been interventional. If you needed your arm reattached, only a microsurgeon could do it. Put another way, Omega 3's and exercise don't fix bad mitral valves. Maybe they deserve some slack because, after all, they had their hands full with those things that they actually could fix.

I believe the error they made was that they minimized the role of actual healthy life habits. Does anyone remember the original "basic food groups" Why in the world was bread one of them? Was it because the doctors actually thought that bread was good for us or was it because they folded under pressure from other sources? Or did they just not know better? Or is it something else entirely?

I don't believe in grand conspiracies. I can't get two people to keep a secret much less an entire profession. I do know that the health of the public was compromised, however. Look at the obesity and diabetes rates in the USA. Is that no one's responsibility? The food manufacturers? or just general ignorance?

Maybe it's all part of general scientific progress and I'm totally off but it seems that the recent push towards healthier foods and life habits did not come from the medical establishment. It seems to have started from the fringe and then, after enough proof of it accumulated, the doctors were forced to go along or else be left behind.

Anyway, none of this changes the fact that we are now on the verge of absolutely incredible medical breakthroughs, from nanobots to genetics. I just hope I live long enough so that I can get in on the extended life span potential that is being uncovered.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Larry's posts on another thread got me thinking.

For anyone born in the 1960's here in America, we were betrayed by the doctors and big business.

The Space Age was in full swing. We were so advanced that we were convinced that we had bested nature.

Our mothers were told not to breast feed because "formula was better". The formula that was essentially sugar, starch and water.

Our baby food was just as bad. Sugary gunk with no nutritional value.

Trans fats replaced the essential oils in our diet because they lasted indefinitely on the shelves.

Fiber? We don't need no stinking fiber!

Our parents smoked, as a matter of fact, almost every adult smoked and we were just expected to breathe it in.

Our breakfasts were high glycemic carbs and fatty processed meats.

Our generation got the frozen TV dinners, the Twinkies, the soda and the fruit juice from concentrate. I remember mixing the semi-solid concentrate goo with water to "make orange juice".

Our fruits and vegetables (when we actually had any) were covered in pesticides.

I could go on.

Contrast that to today. My daughter was breast fed, eats organic food and takes essential fatty acid supplements.

Yeah, we got screwed.
Boo-hoo.

No, not really.

We ate well, played well, had one or two TV stations in most towns, were protected from social media bullying, scraped our knees, were vaccinated against disease, got student loans and went to college. Women who couldn't produce milk had help with high-quality baby formula. Dumb conspiracy theories about GMOs and vaccinations simply didn't exist, keeping us well-fed and protected against disease.

Born 1965.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:18 PM
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Boo-hoo.

No, not really.

We ate well, played well, had one or two TV stations in most towns, were protected from social media bullying, scraped our knees, were vaccinated against disease, got student loans and went to college. Women who couldn't produce milk had help with high-quality baby formula. Dumb conspiracy theories about GMOs and vaccinations simply didn't exist, keeping us well-fed and protected against disease.

Born 1965.
There was no high quality baby formula back then. Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:22 PM
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Both of my sons were 100% breast-fed. No formula at all. Breast milk is the best thing a baby could have. It has all the good stuff they need, and the mother's body naturally regulates the caloric content based on supply & demand. It really is a remarkable thing. I realize that some mothers aren't able to breast feed and I don't look down on that. But so often, I see mothers just do the formula thing because it's just easier and quicker for them.

We also don't subscribe to the "just put them in the crib and let them cry themselves to sleep" school of thinking, either. But that's probably too weird of a tangent to get off on here.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:14 AM
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Does anyone remember the original "basic food groups" Why in the world was bread one of them? Was it because the doctors actually thought that bread was good for us or was it because they folded under pressure from other sources? Or did they just not know better? Or is it something else entirely?
Bread has a lot of calories and whole wheat grains have a lot of nutritional value, its easy to make, and and BEER was born out of bread production. Its not unhealthy by any means. Bread has been an integral part of human culture and literally our survival! Its the "bread and butter"; its why we "break bread" at special occasions. Every ancient culture that could harvest grain was making bread, period. Its not a stretch to understand why nutritional and dietitians included bread/grains as a major food group, because it is. Its the most been the most consumed food for centuries even before Wonder Bread and major food manufactures.

As with anything, too much of a good thing is bad. Brad tastes good and we eat a crap ton of bread nowadays. Gluten tastes good, and most bread you buy has a crap ton of gluten in it. Gluten and carbohydrates are not necessarily bad for you, but after high consumption for long periods of time, you body chemistry evolves into something else that doesn't behave well.

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I don't believe in grand conspiracies. I can't get two people to keep a secret much less an entire profession. I do know that the health of the public was compromised, however. Look at the obesity and diabetes rates in the USA. Is that no one's responsibility? The food manufacturers? or just general ignorance?
Only you are responsible for your health. Food manufactures are not trend setters; they are follwers 100%. Food manufactures will make what people are buying. If we stop buying crap, they will stop making crap. They did not force this crazy processed food on us. They saw that the average customer was looking for foods that were easier to cook/prepare/eat and that lasted longer, and they responded. You could argue that maybe this has spiraled out of control, but its a lot better than it used to be.

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Maybe it's all part of general scientific progress and I'm totally off but it seems that the recent push towards healthier foods and life habits did not come from the medical establishment. It seems to have started from the fringe and then, after enough proof of it accumulated, the doctors were forced to go along or else be left behind.
I'd definitely say that the paradigm shift resulted from continued research on the part of dietitians and nutritionists. With any change in thinking, it takes time. The scientific and medical communities are very conservative - its takes extraordinary evidence to prove extraordinary claims the defy conventional thinking. That evidence can only come from countless labs tests and trials, not the fringe.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:03 AM
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There was no high quality baby formula back then. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Seemed to work well enough for most of us! Starvation was unknown in the US back then and infant mortality was falling like a rock. I'd be interested in knowing what basis you have for your opinion.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:36 AM
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But so often, I see mothers just do the formula thing because it's just easier and quicker for them.
Incredible, isn't it, that women might have dozens of other things to do and might selfishly appreciate having their lives made just that bit easier.

I'm interested to discover how you know what their reasons are, by the way, and why you appear to think it's ok to judge them?
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

For a topic such as this, the following may be relevant:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:18 AM
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This thread just isn't worth the hostility. I'm out.
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

Alright, everyone, just mellow out here.

We the people of the United States (don't worry, it'll trickle down to the rest of you guys in other countries) now have the best health care system in the entire world - thanks to Obama Care.

The preceding message was 88% Sarcasm with 12% Natural flavorings. Yummy!
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:45 AM
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Incredible, isn't it, that women might have dozens of other things to do and might selfishly appreciate having their lives made just that bit easier.

I'm interested to discover how you know what their reasons are, by the way, and why you appear to think it's ok to judge them?
I'm not judging anybody. Clearly you missed the part of my post where I said "....and I don't look down on that."

How do I know what their reasons are? Easy. Just about all of my friends and I are at the point where we are all starting families. And since we're all friends, we talk and share our experiences with each other. Most often, the reason is that once the mom's have to return to work, they simply aren't able to do it. Again, that's understandable, and, again, I don't look down on them for that. Not every family is as fortunate as mine in that my wife can stay home with the baby full-time.

But, then, I've seen women who opt to not breast feed simply because they either don't know/don't care about the benefits of it. They just do what their parents did. And then I have seen women opt not to breast feed for some pretty selfish and bizarre reasons. One mom I know thought it was some type of weird sexual thing. Another was more concerned about getting her pre-baby body back and didn't want "that thing hanging off of me all day".
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:18 AM
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Alright, everyone, just mellow out here.

We the people of the United States (don't worry, it'll trickle down to the rest of you guys in other countries) now have the best health care system in the entire world - thanks to Obama Care.

The preceding message was 88% Sarcasm with 12% Natural flavorings. Yummy!
Actually your fully private health system is the most expensive in the world. You have long spent more on health care than other countries - with worse results.

It seems counter intuitive - not sure what factors are behind this or whether untrammelled private operators simply ripped you guys off.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: The generation that the doctors betrayed

I guess there's just no reasoning with an erstwhile full-time breastfeeding mum like me.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:56 AM
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I guess there's just no reasoning with an erstwhile full-time breastfeeding mum like me.
Still?


..................
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:06 AM
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Still?
ERSTWHILE!!

.................................
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:12 AM
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ERSTWHILE!!

.................................
I know, just string pulling ;)
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