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  #41  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

I haven't had a chance to put it through it's paces yet. I have a rehearsal with my band tonight so I'll post my findings after that. I was seriously considering the carmichael throne but mainly decided to go with the Spinal G due to moto style, round thrones usually cause me issues with my legs.

The cutout channel is pretty small on the Spinal G as opposed to the large cutout on the carmichael. However the moto style seems to place you where it wants you on the throne. As for poor reviews, I don't know if I ever really even saw any reviews tell you the truth.

Just for comparison the two other thrones I have are a Pork Pie Round Throne and a Tama Ergo-Rider HYDRAULIX Cloth Top with a Back Rest.
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  #42  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
I haven't had a chance to put it through it's paces yet. I have a rehearsal with my band tonight so I'll post my findings after that. I was seriously considering the carmichael throne but mainly decided to go with the Spinal G due to moto style, round thrones usually cause me issues with my legs.

The cutout channel is pretty small on the Spinal G as opposed to the large cutout on the carmichael. However the moto style seems to place you where it wants you on the throne. As for poor reviews, I don't know if I ever really even saw any reviews tell you the truth.

Just for comparison the two other thrones I have are a Pork Pie Round Throne and a Tama Ergo-Rider HYDRAULIX Cloth Top with a Back Rest.
lol! Here is the issue I see - without trying the AHEAD and the Carmichael throne, no true comparison. It could bet better than Pork Pie or the Tama throne, but not as good as the Carmichael... Just sayin'.

I don't like the Tama throne with the 4-legs, because it takes up too much space behind me (sometimes space is limited - pre-staged riser), and that also means that the legs will be spread out in such a way that won't be even or may impede access to one of the pedals.
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  #43  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

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Originally Posted by JasperGTR View Post
lol! Here is the issue I see - without trying the AHEAD and the Carmichael throne, no true comparison. It could bet better than Pork Pie or the Tama throne, but not as good as the Carmichael... Just sayin'.

I don't like the Tama throne with the 4-legs, because it takes up too much space behind me (sometimes space is limited - pre-staged riser), and that also means that the legs will be spread out in such a way that won't be even or may impede access to one of the pedals.
If you want to purchase a Carmichael for me I'd be happy to give you a comparison of the two.
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  #44  
Old 08-23-2013, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
If you want to purchase a Carmichael for me I'd be happy to give you a comparison of the two.
lol! Sounds like a great deal!

I think I'll wait until I hear your opinion on the one you're already getting.
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  #45  
Old 08-23-2013, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

Well basic quick run down, I had a 3 hour rehearsal last night with the Ahead Spinal G. The plain simple of it is that the throne didn't blow me away. Did it do what it's supposed to? I think so, I didn't really feel any pain in my back or my tail bone. Though I think the throne could use for some extra padding though. I can't say I really noticed the spring in there or not. I do have to say I do like the 4 legs as opposed to the 3. I didn't really notice that it took up any more or less space than my 3 legged throne. I guess you can say this isn't a good or bad review. The kit I play on for rehearsals isn't my kit and it isn't set up near where I would like it. So that might be part of it. I've been so busy lately I don't even have my kit setup at home. So we will see what the future holds for this throne.
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  #46  
Old 08-24-2013, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
Well basic quick run down, I had a 3 hour rehearsal last night with the Ahead Spinal G. The plain simple of it is that the throne didn't blow me away. Did it do what it's supposed to? I think so, I didn't really feel any pain in my back or my tail bone. Though I think the throne could use for some extra padding though. I can't say I really noticed the spring in there or not. I do have to say I do like the 4 legs as opposed to the 3. I didn't really notice that it took up any more or less space than my 3 legged throne. I guess you can say this isn't a good or bad review. The kit I play on for rehearsals isn't my kit and it isn't set up near where I would like it. So that might be part of it. I've been so busy lately I don't even have my kit setup at home. So we will see what the future holds for this throne.



3 hrs is long enough to see results with any throne. So if the SPINAL G didn't blow you away Im comfortable in saying its not nearly as good as the CARMICHAEL.

Springs plural btw in the SPINAL G... but then WTH for really?

You sit on a CARMICHAEL and you notice the difference, there's no way around it.


If you play a drum set for any length of time, you'll have back issues guaranteed.
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  #47  
Old 08-24-2013, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

I tried the Carmichael throne -- because of this thread -- and didn't care for it. While it seemed to be a very well made, high quality item, the shape didn't feel good to me because I felt like I was perched on top of a bubble, instead of "in" the seat. Also, the Carmichael's large round shape seemed to inhibit my legs a little. I guess I prefer a saddle shape (I've been using the Roc-N-Soc).
So, I returned the Carmichael and ordered the Ahead Spinal G. I will report in after giving it the same test.
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  #48  
Old 08-24-2013, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

I used the Charmichael throne top yesterday at my show (Vince Neil, Queensryche, Slaughter and my band Artificial Agent).
It was very comfortable, not too heavy to move--especially since the crew moved all the gear on/off stage/to the vehicle after haha!
It's not that much heavier than with the regular top.

Very supportive, felt great, and I felt like I could move all around while playing (it's a rock show after all), and it wasn't hard standing and sitting back down in the parts of the set I do it--that was the only thing I thought might be a bunch different, but it didn't seem to matter. I felt better overall during, and after the show.

Glad I bought it!


As an aside on the show--Zoltan is a very cool guy, and a maniac on the drums. Spot on with timing, and super fun to watch. Played some cool fills that caught my ear too. How he does that stuff... the throwing the stick down on the riser and having it go up 10 feet above his head, and catching it--in time. Pretty dang neat :-)

Didn't talk to Scott from QR, but he seemed like a cool dude, and played great. Their new singer Todd was amazing, and a really nice guy.
Vince was cool...everyone was cool and had no attitudes at all. It was a fun night.
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  #49  
Old 09-18-2013, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

Ordered the Carmichael 13'' throne & base (hydraulic version) yesterday.
Can't wait to get it. I feel this will be a strategic upgrade. Hydraulic version for me because I still tend to experiment with seat height so that feature is very welcome.

Yesterday I also had a band practice - been co-operating with a female singer and pianist recently (I'm playing the el. bass), and just a few weeks ago a drummer joined us. I mentioned that I'd ordered a Carmichael throne and tried to explain to the drummer what the benefit is and he simply replied: BS. If you do some exercises/stretching your back for 3 minutes every day and don't sit at the throne for more than 2 hours you'll be totally fine and don't need any sophisticated drum throne. I disagreed ;-)
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  #50  
Old 09-18-2013, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

Maybe, but WHO does stretching for 3 minutes every day?? If you're rehearsing, there aren't many bands that do it for less than two hours either.

Yes, stretching is great, but unless someone wants to, and makes time for it, it's not a normal occurance for the average person.

I'm still glad I got the Charmichael throne (top). I think it's great.
Why not stretch AND have a throne that doesn't push up on your spine?? I stretch my feet, hands, and stretch up and out before I play. I like to be loosened up at the start, not until 3 songs in.

Why did you pick the 13" size? Because it's a usual size? Mine is 15 I think. I like it, no problems, but since I did an eBay, there wasn't an option.
Let us know how that size feels.
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  #51  
Old 09-18-2013, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

Karl, some stretching isn't a bad idea regardless of the drum throne etc. of course. Actually I should do some more, have been neglecting this lately. Great to see you're doing this! (I would simply start slowly and then work my speed up to get warmed up.)

I checked their website and noticed they have a 13'' version, too. My weight varies a bit but overall, it's no more than around 155 lbs (70 kg). Plus, I tend to sit a bit towards the edge, not fully on top of the throne I have. This might change a bit with the Carmichael but because of the mentioned reasons I thought that the 15'' version would be a waste of material and just overly sized for my need. I think 13'' is fine even if sitting fully on top of the throne rather than towards the edge.

Both the 13'' and 15'' versions have the same price.
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  #52  
Old 10-02-2013, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

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I checked their website and noticed they have a 13'' version, too. My weight varies a bit but overall, it's no more than around 155 lbs (70 kg). Plus, I tend to sit a bit towards the edge, not fully on top of the throne I have. This might change a bit with the Carmichael but because of the mentioned reasons I thought that the 15'' version would be a waste of material and just overly sized for my need. I think 13'' is fine even if sitting fully on top of the throne rather than towards the edge.
.
Hello all,

Some recent back troubles have convinced me to order the Carmichael seat top. Just wanted to check some things before since I'll have to order it from overseas.

Does anyone have experience mounting the seat top onto a Gibraltar base? Mine is at least 15 years old but appears to have the same spindle as the current models.

Arky, I noticed that you chose the smaller 13" seat top, have you received it yet?
Can you sit in the middle without losing too much leg mobility?
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  #53  
Old 10-02-2013, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

Mike Stand,
no, I didn't receive it yet. I chose the cheapest (out of 3 or 4) delivery service - which is still expensive enough in my book. So delivery will take accordingly longer.
I'll definitely get back to this thread as soon as I'll get it.

Good question actually. Although from my experience so far, I'll probably never sit dead on center but it's good to know anyway.
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  #54  
Old 10-02-2013, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

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Mike Stand,
no, I didn't receive it yet. I chose the cheapest (out of 3 or 4) delivery service - which is still expensive enough in my book. So delivery will take accordingly longer.
I'll definitely get back to this thread as soon as I'll get it.

Good question actually. Although from my experience so far, I'll probably never sit dead on center but it's good to know anyway.
I think you probably made the right choice. I emailed Dan Carmichael and he recommended I order the 13" seat top. I'm about the same height and weight as you.
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  #55  
Old 10-02-2013, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stand View Post
Hello all,

Some recent back troubles have convinced me to order the Carmichael seat top. Just wanted to check some things before since I'll have to order it from overseas.

Does anyone have experience mounting the seat top onto a Gibraltar base? Mine is at least 15 years old but appears to have the same spindle as the current models.

Arky, I noticed that you chose the smaller 13" seat top, have you received it yet?
Can you sit in the middle without losing too much leg mobility?

If you haven't found out yet CARMICHALE uses Roc N Soc mounting plates, so any 7/8" stool will work. Im pretty GIBRALTAR is 7/8" if its a spindle.
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  #56  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

I ordered a Carmichael seat top yesterday. Can't wait til it arrives... which will be in a while because it's coming all the way from the US to France.

I haven't played in a while for various reasons so I unpacked and set up my trusty old Gibraltar throne to gauge whether I really needed to replace it.

The answer is a clear yes!

I'd barely sat down and I could already feel the seat foam condense and press up into my spine, just like Les described. My current back troubles made me all the more aware of the problem. However, I realise now that this has been the cause for the increasing discomfort I've had over the years, making drumming a very unpleasant experience.
I understand now that it's not possible to find good balance while resting your body weight on your spine, especially while performing such a physical activity such as drumming. You're constantly trying to compensate for that lack of balance and your body pays the price.

I won't make any statements about the Carmichael seat and it's effect until I've tried it out. However, I'm really hoping that it does turn out to be the game changer that others have declared it to be. I want to have fun drumming again, not pain.

On a last note, I'm starting to look for a lightweight, yet sturdy throne base that will accomodate the Carmichael top. My Gibraltar would work well but it weighs a lot and I'd like to cut down on the combined weight of my hardware. Any suggestions?
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  #57  
Old 10-05-2013, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

I'll make another statement, I've been using my CARMICHALE for over a month now and honestly I feel better every time I use it. Im 'burning in' to it.

I have not left a gig/session, or got up from practice with negative back sensation since I started playing on the CARMICHALE, its truly amazing. How's that???

I used to always be tweeked, have some back discomfort after 2-3hrs on my old torture type thrones, after days in a row of 3+ hrs i didn't want to play drums, needed a rest, you know the feeling, your body/back just says no more for awhile. The CARMICHALE continues to blow my mind, I do actually feel better after I come off of it.

The market is in need of a lightweight throne base that can handle some weight, there's not one out there know of, solid spindles are heavy, add weight, tubes don't hold b/c standard pot metal clamps stretch.

Maybe a precision steel clamp to use on a steel tube, that'd be a weight saver which could hold, they don't exist tho. I've found out everyones 1" tubbing is a little different size which could complicate matters with a steel clamp.
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  #58  
Old 10-06-2013, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

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The market is in need of a lightweight throne base that can handle some weight, there's not one out there know of, solid spindles are heavy, add weight, tubes don't hold b/c standard pot metal clamps stretch.
I've just checked the Gibraltar website and they do have my throne in a single braced version. My double braced model has held up fantastically over the years, it seems indestructible. Perhaps their single braced model is worth a try?

I doubt that the difference in weight would be significant as the single braced model has a solid spindle as well. I thought about sawing off a part of my throne's spindle to reduce the weight, but that would probably result in reduced stability as well as compromising the throne in the long term.

If I do happen upon the single braced throne at a good price, I'll get it. I calculated that if I replaced all my stands with Yamaha 600 and 700 models, I could shave off 2,5kg from the total weight. Deduct another half a kilo by replacing the throne base and I'd have have reduced the weight from about 27,5kg to 24,5kg. That makes a difference when everything is stored in one single hardcase.
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  #59  
Old 10-06-2013, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

I really love the Charmichael seat top I have too. I got mine shortly after Les posted about it.
Very happy I got it. My spine feels better, I move & play better, and I love the freedom of movement I have. Even my arms feel better when I play.
Totally worth the money.

The only thing about shortening the spindle, is being able to do it.
A hacksaw isn't ever going to do it. An industrial band saw, or something else at a shop would be needed. I would drop a pound or so off though. If you always sit at a set height, and only deviate maybe an inch up or down, it might be worth looking into. A sturdy seat is a MUST IMO.
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  #60  
Old 10-06-2013, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

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The only thing about shortening the spindle, is being able to do it.
A hacksaw isn't ever going to do it. An industrial band saw, or something else at a shop would be needed. I would drop a pound or so off though. If you always sit at a set height, and only deviate maybe an inch up or down, it might be worth looking into. A sturdy seat is a MUST IMO.
Yeah, you're right. I never change the throne height much. I'll try and completely unscrew the spindle to measure it and decide if it's worth trying to saw a bit off.
But first I'll weigh the spindle in order to calculate the weight of the piece I'd saw off.
If it's only going to be a few hundred gramms it might not be worth the hassle and risk of ruining my throne.

Standby for report fellow bad back drummers.

24 hours later... well, turns out it's not worth trying to shorten the spindle. I'd lose 280g at the very most, any more and the spindle would just be dangerously short IMO.
It's heavy, but not as heavy as I'd expected it to be.
So I think the single braced throne base is my best bet.
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Last edited by Mike Stand; 10-07-2013 at 11:27 PM.
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  #61  
Old 10-16-2013, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Calling All Bad Back Drummers: Ergokinetic Thrones

I got my Carmichael CT201 (13'' version) yesterday - I posted some pics here:

Carmichael CT-200 drum throne anyone?
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...64#post1189764

It works/feels great! I'll be using my previous/cheapo throne as a practice pad stand.
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