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  #1  
Old 05-03-2013, 04:44 AM
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Default My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Hi all,

I've futzed around with one of my bass drum pedals so it would strike upward and have cobbled my Slingerland kit into a 2-piece cocktail kit. I'm debating getting into cocktail drums for a potential coffee house-type group, but I think a regular cocktail kit is too tall for me.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on my solution. If I like this, and can get a better bass drum sound out of it (I haven't tried different heads yet), I plan to mount the cymbal and hats off of one solid stand (right now I just have the hats on a hat stand). Playing balancing on one foot doesn't seem that hard.

But I'm wondering if just having a regular bass drum wouldn't be better? Looking at my set-up here, I think it takes up about the same amount of space. What do ya' think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zo55SW-RNo
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

cocktail sets are sooooo hip man!!

Here's Peter Erskine's setup for some cool ideas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMHYJpxC5k

I read online somewhere he normally sits on a high throne though
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Hi all,

I've futzed around with one of my bass drum pedals so it would strike upward and have cobbled my Slingerland kit into a 2-piece cocktail kit. I'm debating getting into cocktail drums for a potential coffee house-type group, but I think a regular cocktail kit is too tall for me.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on my solution. If I like this, and can get a better bass drum sound out of it (I haven't tried different heads yet), I plan to mount the cymbal and hats off of one solid stand (right now I just have the hats on a hat stand). Playing balancing on one foot doesn't seem that hard.

But I'm wondering if just having a regular bass drum wouldn't be better? Looking at my set-up here, I think it takes up about the same amount of space. What do ya' think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zo55SW-RNo
I've seen people convert drum sets into a compact form. I hesitate to call them cocktail sets because if you ain't standing, then it ain't cocktail. If you're sitting to play, then it's a drum set, whether it's a 20 piece monstrosity or a floor-tom-converted-to-bass-drum two-piece compact kit.

Your floor tom/bass drum sounds fine. If you want the convenience of a compact set, you will have to adjust to the different sound. You won't be as loud, but most musicians and audience members would welcome that, especially in a coffeehouse setting.

I think you need to get a better idea of what you want. If you want to play a regular bass drum, then play a regular set and make it as compact as you can and be prepared to deal with requests to play more quietly in coffeehouses. If you want to have a set optimized for lower-volume gigs, then step off the ledge and get a standing cocktail set. If you want to chart some middle course and stay in familiar territory, then build on what you have in the YouTube video.

I can tell you, there is nothing like playing standing. Now I understand why everyone else stands to play. From a practical standpoint and from a cool factor, a true cocktail set can't be beat for coffeehouse gigs.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

This seems to work just fine, so I wouldn't invest in a cocktail kit .... since you already own drums that can be applied.
As far as different heads ..... something like a P3 for the bottom (more of a bass drum head) and an Emperor of Ambassador up top. Or maybe just a felt strip on the bottom.
It's not so much "floor space" that you're saving ..... you're hauling 1 less drum. And it's your largest drum you're leaving at home. If you really want to save on real estate, you kinda need to go with the more traditional "cocktail" formula .... which usually means 14" floor/bass, smaller snare, small hats and small ride/crash. The Erskine kit has the more traditional sizes.
As usual, your playing is killer.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Thanks Harry and DMC. I would love to play a regular cocktail kit, but the ones that I've seen, I'm just not tall enough to play it. If I had alot of money to spend, I suppose I could get one and have it cut down, but I'm not sure I want to work that hard at this juncture. This inner debate will rage on, I suppose.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Considering the set you display there you may as well sit down and relax. the foot print will be the same size.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Considering the set you display there you may as well sit down and relax. the foot print will be the same size.
Very true. But I think with the elimination of the bass drum and a throne, you're saving alot of front-to-back-space too. But a true cocktail kit would make more sense, of course. I just wish I stood at least 5' 5" sometimes. But that would mean I wouldn't have the job I have now ;)
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Maybe you should get rid of that 24" ride and use something like a 16" heavy crash.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Very true. But I think with the elimination of the bass drum and a throne, you're saving alot of front-to-back-space too. But a true cocktail kit would make more sense, of course. I just wish I stood at least 5' 5" sometimes. But that would mean I wouldn't have the job I have now ;)
No, I mean just add a throne to what you are showing. wouldn't take up much more space .
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Pretty cool Matt ...

I have a Sonor Safari kit and yet sometimes it's to big, and I really considered the cocktail route using a converted 16x16 kick,
but just could not make it work for me.

Using gear I had laying around, this was the result for back porch/coffee house type events. It uses only two stands and one of
those light weight folding stools as a throne, The mini kick has a mic built in so you can plug into the PA ...

Still who knows, I may do that cocktail thing yet.

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Old 05-05-2013, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Funny that I should be thinking 'small' only because I may have a chance to be playing in really small venues. Maybe I should just say 'no' and only play where I have enough space for my Zeppelin/Safari kit instead ;)
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Where is your cocktail? That's just a kit.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Cocktail kits....they only exist to save space right? I mean that's the #1 reason right? From the back of your heel, to the cymbal stand leg that sticks out in the front, that is almost the same footprint as if you were sitting down at a kit, front to back at least. I do think this this could be used as a cocktail kit as is, if you have the room. If you don't have the room, as would be more the case I think, then I think you could still use this, but you would have to lose that one stand that holds the cymbal. It sticks out too far. It seems like the floor tom could be pulled back a little too...only to fit into tight spaces. The cymbal stand could be flown from a dogbone from your hi hat. I mean it sounds just great, but I think you could lessen the footprint with a dogbone and pulling the floor tom back to you a little. Your side to side footprint seems good for a space restricted stage but your front to back footprint seems to negate the whole reason for doing this.

I would hate to stand for a whole gig. Heel down is the only way to play a cocktail kit I am assuming. What if you had to open the hi hat while your kick drum beater is back? You would be standing on your heels. That's doesn't sound to stable/comfortable to me. But I guess guys do it. Martin never mentioned any issue with it. Bo you could play a set of overturned garbage cans and make them sound pro.

What's really needed is a bass drum turned sideways, with a custom made throne straddling it somehow, so the bass drum is under your seated tushy, played by a cable remote.

If there was that much space restriction, I'd consider a cajon with various jingle or noise making things on my wrist and feet, ala Jim Keltner. Either that or an E kit. Did I really say that?
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

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Either that or an E kit. Did I really say that?
Wow. You really did say that. Who are you and what have you done with Larry?
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Thanks Harry and DMC. I would love to play a regular cocktail kit, but the ones that I've seen, I'm just not tall enough to play it. If I had alot of money to spend, I suppose I could get one and have it cut down, but I'm not sure I want to work that hard at this juncture. This inner debate will rage on, I suppose.
It would be easy to move the cocktail set very close to the ground, but if you get too close, the foot pedal won't work. I'd experiment with a cocktail set, if you can get ahold of one, and see how low you can get it and still have everything work. They are pretty standard at 24 inches tall. Assuming you need six inches of vertical space minimum for a foot pedal to work. then your drum would be about 30 inches tall. If you're 61 inches tall, it might work.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Cocktail kits....they only exist to save space right? I mean that's the #1 reason right? From the back of your heel, to the cymbal stand leg that sticks out in the front, that is almost the same footprint as if you were sitting down at a kit, front to back at least. I do think this this could be used as a cocktail kit as is, if you have the room. If you don't have the room, as would be more the case I think, then I think you could still use this, but you would have to lose that one stand that holds the cymbal. It sticks out too far. It seems like the floor tom could be pulled back a little too...only to fit into tight spaces. The cymbal stand could be flown from a dogbone from your hi hat. I mean it sounds just great, but I think you could lessen the footprint with a dogbone and pulling the floor tom back to you a little. Your side to side footprint seems good for a space restricted stage but your front to back footprint seems to negate the whole reason for doing this.

I would hate to stand for a whole gig. Heel down is the only way to play a cocktail kit I am assuming. What if you had to open the hi hat while your kick drum beater is back? You would be standing on your heels. That's doesn't sound to stable/comfortable to me. But I guess guys do it. Martin never mentioned any issue with it. Bo you could play a set of overturned garbage cans and make them sound pro.

What's really needed is a bass drum turned sideways, with a custom made throne straddling it somehow, so the bass drum is under your seated tushy, played by a cable remote.

If there was that much space restriction, I'd consider a cajon with various jingle or noise making things on my wrist and feet, ala Jim Keltner. Either that or an E kit. Did I really say that?
No cajons! They're just annoyingly trendy and way overdone. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot-pole.

Playing a cocktail set is physically demanding and it will develop new skills, if you're into that sort of thing. I have learned to play bass with my left foot about a third of the time, to give my left leg a break from supporting my weight. Cocktail sets are much more uncomfortable to play that normal sit-down sets.

That's the price we cocktail drummers play for extreme coolness and the ability to stand on stage with the rest of the band. Sitting down 100 percent of the time is just so ... passive ...
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

Check out my blog for some really good, easy to build mini-kit ideas!
Click here to see my Crazy Drum Kit blog!
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: My possible alternative cocktail kit?

I got this as a gift recently (everything in the photo except the block and cymbals) - they're nice drums and very well made . The snare drum is a beautifully made drum in itself = full size. I have not found a comfortable way to play them yet. I may opt to sit/lean on a Barstool (need the drinks too) instead of standing the whole time while playing.

I haven't taken photos of the complete setup but mine happens to be the same Custom finish as you see in the ad photo here. They're made in Canada. My kit was missing a couple of parts so I contacted the drum builder. He not only sent me the parts....but he didn't charge me for them and he sent me a Promo package as well.

Cocktail kits are nice but personally....so far anyway....I would opt for a customized compact (nesting?) kit if that would work. I played a cocktail kit for about 1/2 hour once and just could not get comfortable....I have long legs and very large feet - that might have something to do with it.
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