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  #1  
Old 04-27-2013, 10:00 PM
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Default Met a guy who really likes his E kit

So I went to a bar the other night with my wife for dinner and to catch a duo act she is friends with. Anyway, while I was there, a guy walks in who is a drummer and who is part of a house band at an open mic jam near me that I haven't been to. He uses the top of the line, (according to him, you can't spend more money on any other E kit) Roland...I forget the model line letters/numbers. Anyway, man was he singing it's praises. I'm sure I was Mr. Skeptic to him. He was saying things like...at the push of a button, I could have a nice Latin kit, then switch to a deep power tom rock kit, to a tight poppy hip hop kit and so on....

I asked him about rimshots, like if you vary where the tip hits on the head it changes the tone of the rimshot...he said his E drums do that too. Then I mentioned how much I hate the cymbal tones of E kits and he defended those too. He said how easy it was to get good sounds. Meanwhile I'm thinking....that's a big part of the skill right there...the tuning skills I developed and the time I've spent learning how to pull nice tones from the drums. With E kits that's not even a consideration, which according to him, frees you up to concentrate on playing better. He made a lot of sense and was very convincing.

But I can never see myself ever gigging an E kit, it kind of negates a lot of skills I have developed over the years. I think it would kind of peeve me off at all the time it would seem like I "wasted". I see it as lazy in a way. Just being honest, not meant to offend. I'm pretty old fashioned when it comes to work ethic. He said that the kit is loaded out in like 7 minutes, further strengthening my "it's lazy" POV. I know I'm being a bit backwards, nothing new there, but I wanted to throw it out for discussion to see where the majority stands on the issue.

I would hate to go hear them and like them, isn't that nuts? I don't want to like E drums. Totally bull headed, right? From where I'm sitting, E kits lower the bar. By a lot. I don't want to support bar lowering. I don't necessarily want to see them go away, but they really turn me off so I can't see myself ever liking them. I'm interested in YOUR thoughts on the matter.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I'm guessing he was purely an e-drum player, with little experience with how to actually play acoustic drums.

I've played the current top-of-the-line Roland kits, and they're great for what they are. However, you are most certainly nowhere close to being able to replicate the dynamic range and sonic possibilities of an acoustic drum with regards to rimshots, ghost notes, where you strike on the head, etc.

Acoustic and electronic drums are two distinctly different instruments, just like a grand piano and an electronic keyboard, and they both have their uses. E-drums have their obvious uses, for home practise, gigs where noise is an issue and for gigs where you really need a huge amount of sounds available to you (playing cheesy covers on a cruise liner or whatever). But for real, classic drum sounds, you simply can't play anything other than an acoustic kit.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

No, he's not strictly an E drum player. He plays an A kit at a different open mic jam. I haven't been to that one either. I just learned about both of them that night. (I don't go out much. If I'm not gigging or working, I'm usually home) So he does both. He seems to like the E kit better because he didn't say much about the A kit. I need to go hear this guy on both kits.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
I'm guessing he was purely an e-drum player, with little experience with how to actually play acoustic drums.

I've played the current top-of-the-line Roland kits, and they're great for what they are. However, you are most certainly nowhere close to being able to replicate the dynamic range and sonic possibilities of an acoustic drum with regards to rimshots, ghost notes, where you strike on the head, etc.

Acoustic and electronic drums are two distinctly different instruments, just like a grand piano and an electronic keyboard, and they both have their uses. E-drums have their obvious uses, for home practise, gigs where noise is an issue and for gigs where you really need a huge amount of sounds available to you (playing cheesy covers on a cruise liner or whatever). But for real, classic drum sounds, you simply can't play anything other than an acoustic kit.
I was going to pen a response, but Naige said it spot on for me :)
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I have several acoustic kits and a fairly good Roland E Kit that I use mainly so I don't annoy those around me and I can practice pretty much any time of day or night.

I won't go into the pros and cons of each but I will say that in my opinion there is a bit less of a soul to the E Kit. I'm not sure how else to describe it.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

Naige also hit it on the head for me too, but honestly speaking, it's good to embrace the new technology, and many here know of my disdain for the eKit, but I've actually done it and have come back from the dark forest a bit wiser. I still contend they are the most expensive practice kits I've ever seen/owned. And you are correct, big deal with the push of a button you can change a sound, the whole joy of playing an acoustic instrument is being able to pull the sound you want out of it. For some reason, the engineers haven't gotten around to replicating all the expressiveness of an acoustic drumset out yet. They've done a great job with guitars, and I'd even argue the Akai EWI (electronic wind instrument) does pretty well for it's intended use, but you still don't see sax players putting their horns in the closet in favor of the EWI).

The one place I saw V-drums good in their place was at the MGM Grand hotel in Vegas. The hall you enter is round, and they have a band up on the wall as you walk in. The room is so acoustically bad, V-drums actually help. An acoustic kit would be too much for that room. But then again, you're back in cruise ship mode playing music nobody really appreciates - you're just background noise to the bigger activity of gambling. And I'm always impressed when I see people like Omar Hakim incorporate them into their acoustic kits, and Bruford's earlier work with Simmons and all that. But as a replacement for acoustic drums "just because" is lazy and doesn't make any sense.

I apologize to all the players here who love their eKits, and I admit I'm probably spoiled by the fact that I have a gig where I play the real thing, and am in a position to just say 'yes' to acoustic drumming gigs only, but eKits had their time back in the 80s. And like so many things from the 80s, eKits are the last to go away on their own ;)
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

Well, the top-o-da-line Roland TD-30KV .... goes for about $7.7K. So if you're gonna spend that kinda scratch .... hell yeah, ya probably better like it. A lot.
Myself .... I'd never spend that kinda money on an e-kit, or an a-kit. I'm not so much an e-kit kinda guy, as a hybrid kit kinda guy. Put both together, and things get interesting. This guy rocks ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yi2...IYyU5g&index=6
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

Of course E-kits have advantages, but the most important factor in the end is how it all sounds, and E-kits aren't even close. Yet, I guess. The second most important factor to me is how the drums feel, and again, E-kits aren't even close.

If I ever find myself in a position where I'll have to play a gig with an E-kit.... Ugh. =/
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I don't know if you've heard of the band, but there's a rock group from Canada called Rush, and their drummer plays e-kit on a number of the band's songs. Somehow he makes them sound very good.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

Some people love pumpkin. I happen to think it tastes like pure shite.......try and convince me I'm wrong. To each his own.

He's out there sloggin' it doing something he loves. Doing exactly the same thing as the rest of us.......playing music and making people happy. Why not just enjoy it for what it is instead of pulling his whole thing apart....not because of what he plays, but what he plays it on?

If he really loves his e-kit, more power to him. Who the hell are we to tell him he's got it wrong? In my world, elitism used to be the domain of guitar players.......then it would seem, they invented drum forums. :-)
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I too love my e-kit but not because it is as good or better than an acoustic kit.
I have also tried high end electronic kits and they are an instrument that is all be itself and they should be treated that way.
I bought my inexpensive e-kit for practice. It works great for that purpose. It is also great for learning tunes.
I soon found out that my e-kit is good for another use. I could use it as an exercise machine that I wouldn't be board with.

My doctor told me that I had some medical issues and I had to do a cardio workout 3 times a week. I hate treadmills, etc.
My Roland e-kit has pedals built in. I can make the left pedal either a hi-hat pedal or a bass drum slave pedal.
I began to play fast heel up double bass patterns while hooked up to a heart rate monitor. I reach my target heart rate and I don't get board and lose interest. I am addicted to it.
I have a blast while I exercise.
I have been doing this for about 3 months and my condition has improved according to the results of my last check up.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

As did the drummer for Chers last tour. A kit in the front and an E kit to the side and depending on the song they both fit very well
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I see the utility for e-kits, many applications, and really appreciate them. they can sound quite good.
BUT, e-kits look butt-ugly on stage to me. One reason i would never play out with one, it just looks plain damn silly....uncool to me.
A-kits are so beautiful even when old or beat up.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

E-kits are great instrument to use if you need a variety of sounds, or if you're aiming for a sound that cannot be produced by acoustic drums, not even the greatest electronic drums can sound as great as a nice acoustic.

You have to accept electronic kits as they are, buying a electronic kit to replace your acoustic kit would be like buying an expensive synthesizer to use as a piano, doesn't make sense. If you plan on playing acoustic drum sounds, play them on a acoustic set. That's how I see it.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

Last week my band was lining up a gig in a small cafe.

They asked if I wanted to do the set with my 2box.

Of course I would have done it for the bands sake but I just thought "wow, an e-kit at a gig, how dorky".

Luckily the stage was too small and we cancelled.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Some people love pumpkin. I happen to think it tastes like pure shite.......try and convince me I'm wrong. To each his own.

He's out there sloggin' it doing something he loves. Doing exactly the same thing as the rest of us.......playing music and making people happy. Why not just enjoy it for what it is instead of pulling his whole thing apart....not because of what he plays, but what he plays it on?

If he really loves his e-kit, more power to him. Who the hell are we to tell him he's got it wrong? In my world, elitism used to be the domain of guitar players.......then it would seem, they invented drum forums. :-)
To paraphrase someone else, I was gonna formulate a response, but... ^^^


And what is all this about work ethic? Do you still grind your wheat with two flat rocks? Walk to work? Spin your wool (from sheep you've raised) into yarn so you can make your clothes on a hand loom? Where do you draw the line?

The guy can play or not play, and the drums sound good, or don't sound good. That's pretty much it as far as I'm concerned. And even those are just opinions for the most part. Chill, Uncle Larry. :-)
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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Originally Posted by Milt Hathaway View Post
I don't know if you've heard of the band, but there's a rock group from Canada called Rush, and their drummer plays e-kit on a number of the band's songs. Somehow he makes them sound very good.
I don't think anyone's saying e-kits can't sound good, only that they don't sound like a-kits.

Neil Peart makes excellent use of his e-kit. When he wants electronic sounds, he uses an electronic kit, and when he wants regular drum sounds he uses an acoustic kit.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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And what is all this about work ethic? Do you still grind your wheat with two flat rocks? Walk to work? Spin your wool (from sheep you've raised) into yarn so you can make your clothes on a hand loom? Where do you draw the line?

The guy can play or not play, and the drums sound good, or don't sound good. That's pretty much it as far as I'm concerned. And even those are just opinions for the most part. Chill, Uncle Larry. :-)
+1000 to that.
Knowing how to properly tune an a-kit doesn't make you a better or worse player of the instrument itself (but if such a skill makes you feel as if you have a superior work ethic then good luck to you sir)!
As for having an instrument that's easier to load in and out- well what kind of crazy person would want that? Next you'll be telling us you use your automobile to drive your kits to gigs instead of using the horse and cart like the rest of us!
Aaaaand I'll stop there.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I wonder if guitar players were having the same argument in the early 30's when the electric guitar became a reality.Yet the acoustic guitar is still here along with plastic violins and chellos.

I guess E kits have their place and may even become more popular because of their exposure on American Idol a few times a week.

To each their own.I just watched Buddy Rich and his band do one of the best renditions of "Love For Sale" that I ever heard.I mean it just cooked...pure energy.But somehow,I could never see an E kit dynamicly sounding like Buddys 80's Ludwigs and A Zildjian cymbals.

Like I said...they all have a purpose,but using Niel Peart as an example in the context of sound value, leaves me flat,since I NEVER liked the sound of his kits A or E .Just my 2c.:)

Steve B
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

Can we stop loading up on Larry here please. He's approached this subject with an open mind, & because he's comfortable here, feels happy to post some of his inner thoughts. If you read his thoughts in context with the whole of his OP, it makes sense. I'm not picking up that Larry's thoughts are anything but what he finds to be of value personally. He's neither preaching to you, nor suggesting his thoughts apply universally.

Moreover, any reference to equity in tuning skills IS relevant as far as I'm concerned. To have gone that journey is to give greater understanding to the instrument's dynamics, & how those choices translate to an audience. The difference in dynamic presentation between E kits & A kits sits at the very heart of most of these discussions, so it's most relevant. Larry's describing a conversation with someone who enthuses about something that Larry finds difficult to contextualise when weighed against his own experiences. Nothing more than that.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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Can we stop loading up on Larry here please. He's approached this subject with an open mind, & because he's comfortable here, feels happy to post some of his inner thoughts. If you read his thoughts in context with the whole of his OP, it makes sense. I'm not picking up that Larry's thoughts are anything but what he finds to be of value personally. He's neither preaching to you, nor suggesting his thoughts apply universally.

Moreover, any reference to equity in tuning skills IS relevant as far as I'm concerned. To have gone that journey is to give greater understanding to the instrument's dynamics, & how those choices translate to an audience. The difference in dynamic presentation between E kits & A kits sits at the very heart of most of these discussions, so it's most relevant. Larry's describing a conversation with someone who enthuses about something that Larry finds difficult to contextualise when weighed against his own experiences. Nothing more than that.
Aw, I wasn't trying to pick on him TOO badly. Thus the smiley. ;-)

To me, they are just different instruments that utilize different skillsets, with a lot of overlap. I don't think there should be any judgment about thatl. Opinion, sure, but not judgement.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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Aw, I wasn't trying to pick on him TOO badly. Thus the smiley. ;-)

To me, they are just different instruments that utilize different skillsets, with a lot of overlap. I don't think there should be any judgment about thatl. Opinion, sure, but not judgement.
Completely agree. Very different instruments, & each has it's place, with some very much shared :)
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

You can't separate opinion from judgement. Everyone judges stuff, if they say they don't they are lying. You have to judge. When you drop your kid off at a new friends house for the first time, you go in, meet the parents, look around, and you subconsciously judge people and surroundings for the safety of your kid. So opinions are judgments aren't they? Thanks Andy for sticking up for me, but really, I can understand that it can be taken to sound elite. Not my intention to sound elite, this can be a touchy subject. I'm all for time saving devices like the car, and I don't spin my wool from sheep, even though that actually appeals to me. But if quality is lower, then I'm not on board with that, bottom line. The day I see an E kit that just buries an A kit...well I couldn't ignore that. But it's not even close.


I just don't like them. If I see another playing them, TBH, like opentune, A: I don't like the look of them, and B: they sound too clinical to me, and C: I always wonder what that same drummer would sound like on an A kit. They are programming a lot of the skill, and all of the human-ness right out of the equation, the very thing that makes a drummer interesting. A complete noobie can make just as good of a tone as a seasoned veteran. On the surface that sounds like a good thing, but for me it's not a good thing, not at all. It takes the skill right out of pulling a good sound from the drum.

An analogy, in my mind anyway, would be someone who climbed Mt. Everest. The A kit is like climbing up the traditional way with all its trials and tribulations. An E kit is like taking a helicopter to the top. Anybody can just hop in a helicopter, not just anyone can climb the traditional way. The journey is the best part, skipping that process and fast forwarding to the destination takes all the fun out of it. For me, the E kit removes a lot of the hardness from the process. The hardness is what makes it great. I guess you can color me old fashioned.

So yea, I don't prefer seeing or hearing drummers on E kits, in any way at all. They look stupid IMO, they sound bad IMO, it makes me feel that the drummer is "cheating" and isn't concerned enough with the end product. My apologies to those who that upsets. They don't inspire me in the least. In fact it bums me out every time when I see a drummer using them. It's deflating. I've never said, "Oh cool, the drummer is using an E kit. It's always, Oh crap, the drummer is using an E kit. Let's go see a different band.

Has anyone heard a drummer that plays an E kit and gotten chills from the drum part?

If you have, please share a link.

Maybe some day they can program things so you can get E chills lol.

If that makes me an elitist...so be it. You can't please everybody. The best you can do is be true to yourself, and damn the torpedos.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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Can we stop loading up on Larry here please. He's approached this subject with an open mind, & because he's comfortable here, feels happy to post some of his inner thoughts. If you read his thoughts in context with the whole of his OP, it makes sense. I'm not picking up that Larry's thoughts are anything but what he finds to be of value personally. He's neither preaching to you, nor suggesting his thoughts apply universally.

Moreover, any reference to equity in tuning skills IS relevant as far as I'm concerned. To have gone that journey is to give greater understanding to the instrument's dynamics, & how those choices translate to an audience. The difference in dynamic presentation between E kits & A kits sits at the very heart of most of these discussions, so it's most relevant. Larry's describing a conversation with someone who enthuses about something that Larry finds difficult to contextualise when weighed against his own experiences. Nothing more than that.
+1000.Well said mate.The guy has an opinion to which he's entitled.If you are thinking he's like the old man screaming at the kids to get off his lawn,then maybe you should re-read his original post.

This other drummer was just using his strawman argument to bolster his belief in E kits over acoustic.His argument here also seems often repeated and well rehearsed.

Larrys point about tuning skills and dynamics are well reasoned and I agree 100 %.

Now I have to go and chase some guy trying to park in front of my house.:):):.Lighten up people.

Got your back Larry.

Steve B
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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You can't separate opinion from judgement.
Sure you can.

I hate the way ekits look and sound = opinion
Someone who likes the way ekits look and sound is wrong or stupid = judgement

Here's a less volatile example.

I like vanilla ice cream better than chocolate = opinion
Chocolate ice cream sucks and the people who like it are idiots = opinion

The irony is, I agree with Larry on many points concerning e-kits. The part that got me, and that I tried to address in a lighthearted manner, is the work ethic part, the assumption that if someone chooses a method that is easier, that person is lazy. Thus my examples about grinding wheat, etc. We all choose the easiest methods to do most of the things we do. Where we draw the line is a matter of personal preference.

I choose to mow my lawn with a push reel mower because it's quiet and doesn't use gas. Should I judge my neighbor as lazy because he uses a gas mower? Should he judge me as elitist or technologically challenged, or whatever, because I don't? I don't think so. we just value different things.

I agree you should be proud of your tuning skills. That is a hard-won battle for a lot of people. But I bet there are a lot of a-kit players who would have no idea how to program e-kit modules to configure different sets, adjust the parameters of sounds that are onboard, create and install samples of their own, use the ekit with a midi interface, etc. Those are skills, too.

None of these have anything to do with the ability of a player to play well.

That's all I'm a'saying. I certainly didn't mean to start an argument, just offer a different point of view.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I think quite a few people posting opinions are unfamiliar with e-kits. My Rolands are priceless, love 'em. Of course nothing beats the real thing.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I actually like the non agreement. It forces us to get really deep into things. Please feel free to disagree with me at any time, I dig opposing POV's, it's how people learn to step out of their comfort zone. I must have given the impression from the lazy comment that I am judging people for their E kit choices, and I guess I am. Oh well, guilty as charged. I just don't have the respect that I would have for a drummer who can make their A kit sound sublime. The E kit guy took a helicopter ride to the top AFAIC. Now if that same drummer can make the A kit sound sublime, but just likes his E kit, then he has my respect. But if he sounds better on the E kit than the A kit, then yes I take away respect points, which is a judgement. Everyone judges. You judged me for judging. So everyone judges. That's OK, it's a necessary process in figuring out what you like and what you don't. I don't get the negative connotations that go along with judging when judging is an unavoidable process. Everyone judges.

Programming E kits...you just can't compare that with developing drumming skills. Yea, you have to learn how to program, yes there's a lot of knowledge there, and yes it takes a lot of time and concentration....but there's clear step by step instructions that anyone can follow! You don't have to suffer any physical discomfort developing muscle technique and fine motor skills, touch, finesse, so they are apples and walnuts. The question that has to be asked... is the end result what you truly desire? Is that what you really want to sound like? If so, great. But if the ease of things is more important than the end result.... that's what I have a problem with, taking the easy way out, screw the end results. But to each their own. Everyone is judged, and to say you (not you personally) don't judge is also an elitist and probably untrue statement.

Your lawn mower analogy is like ammunition for my POV, because at the end of the day, the result is the same with both mowers. You cannot say that with an E to A kit comparison.
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Last edited by larryace; 04-28-2013 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I actually like the non agreement. It forces us to get really deep into things. Please feel free to disagree with me at any time, I dig opposing POV's, it's how people learn to step out of their comfort zone. I must have given the impression from the lazy comment that I am judging people for their E kit choices, and I guess I am. Oh well, guilty as charged. I just don't have the respect I would have for a drummer who can make an A kit sound sublime. The E kit guy took a helicopter ride to the top AFAIC. Now if that same drummer can make the A kit sound sublime, but just likes his E kit, then he has my respect. But if he sounds better on the E kit than the A kit, then yes I take away respect points, which is a judgement. Everyone judges. You judged me for judging. So everyone judges. That's OK, it's a necessary process in figuring out what you like and what you don't. I don't get the negative connotations that go along with judging when judging is an unavoidable process. Everyone judges.

Programming E kits...you just can't compare that with developing drumming skills. Yea, you have to learn how to program, yes there's a lot of knowledge there, and yes it takes a lot of time and concentration....but there's clear step by step instructions that anyone can follow! You don't have to suffer any physical discomfort developing muscle technique and fine motor skills, touch, finesse, so they are apples and walnuts. The question that has to be asked, is the end result what you truly desire? Or are the ease of things more important than the end result? That's what I have a problem with, taking the easy way out. But to each their own. Everyone is judged, and to say you (not you personally) don't judge is also an elitist and probably untrue statement.
Haha, yes, I guess I am talking about judging in the negative sense. I think we can disagree without judgment, but I can tell we are simply talking semantics here.

The important part to me, is what you stated in the last paragraph - "The question that has to be asked, is the end result what you truly desire?" This is the meat and potatoes of it, in my mind. The kind of negative judgment I think we should try and avoid, is assuming someone who chooses an e-kit did so only because it is easier. How do we know it wasn't what they truly desire? I don't think we have the right to set the criteria for his choice.

I know you are actually being open minded about a person's playing abilities, Larry, because you said all along that a guy who can play an a-kit has your respect. So, despite how it looks, I really am not attacking or judging you. Just disagreeing about one aspect, or at least putting forth a cautionary plea not to judge too quickly if someone chooses to use an e-kit. I get where you are coming from, I really do, and I'm cool with it.

And for the record, I have suffered much more frustration, not to mention pain and discomfort, trying to follow the so-called step-by-step instructions for various gadgets, than I ever have putting in woodshed hours to develop drumming skills, lol. Drum practice is always a sweet pain.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:36 PM
Drummerjunkie04 Drummerjunkie04 is offline
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I have an acoustic kit I use for gigs, and an electric for home. It's great for practice at home, I can play at 3 in the morning and work out new tunes without bothering anyone. When I purchased mine, my practicing time doubled, as for the sounds I have a plugin called Addictive Drums that is triggered thru midi and has real drum sounds recorded in a studio, sounds amazing, I even use that to record. If you hit the bass drum loud enough you can actually hear the snares rattling. You can also move the mic placement for different sounds. I would NEVER choose it over my acoustic but it has its place and works great for me.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:41 PM
Brian Brian is offline
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

The best part about my e-drums is the ability to tune them how I want to, without having to pull out the drum keys and start fiddling. I think the DIY-mentality being thrown away with electronic drums is misguided and a little ignorant, but to each their own.

If one really gets deep into their capability, it's quite a bit of information and learning necessary (the opposite of turn-key, push of a button operation), but out of the box it's totally newbie friendly, too. Another added benefit as it appeals to a broad range of drummers and musicians, from people who just want to sit down and play, to those who want to fine-tune nearly every conceivable aspect.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:22 PM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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I'm interested in YOUR thoughts on the matter.
He makes good points and I understand your points as well. Another point he didn't make was, you can be the most skilled drummer in the world but, unless you are playing in an intimate atmosphere, what comes out of the PA is not necessarily what you are playing.

In my opinion, the thing that really matters is the music. Drummers, A or E, are simply one part of the sound.


As far as the lazy thing, yeah, you are being old and stubborn. Are you lazy because you use modern conveniences like indoor plumbing? Are you lazy if you use a hand truck/dolly to move heavy objects? How about if you park as close to the door as possible when loading/unloading your gear? The list goes on forever.

When someone suggested E drums to me a couple years ago, my response was literally, "Blasphemy!!" It turns out that, for what I/we do, it is a perfect fit. If what I do ever requires A drums, I will simply switch back.


Quote:
I need to go hear this guy on both kits.
That would be a great idea!


Quote:
Has anyone heard a drummer that plays an E kit and gotten chills from the drum part?
I've never gotten chills from any drum part. The only thing that ever really moves emotionally me is the vocals, and that's only one in a thousands songs.

As a matter of fact, in small venues, I rarely hear an A kit that didn't sound like hell. I don't get out much though :)

Last edited by New Tricks; 04-28-2013 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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So, despite how it looks, I really am not attacking or judging you. Just disagreeing about one aspect, or at least putting forth a cautionary plea not to judge too quickly if someone chooses to use an e-kit.
I didn't mean to criticise your approach directly, mine was more of a general bite back at the overall tone across a range of posts. Sorry if I offended - not my intention.









Larry, your opinions suck!!!! ;) ;) ;)
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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I didn't mean to criticise your approach directly, mine was more of a general bite back at the overall tone across a range of posts. Sorry if I offended - not my intention.









Larry, your opinions suck!!!! ;) ;) ;)
No worries, Andy!! I like to keep it peaceful.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:52 PM
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Davo-London Davo-London is offline
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I don't think they lower the bar.

The number of times I've been to rehearsal rooms and wished I had my e-kit rather than the beaten to death acoustic kit that's available.

Larry, you should try the TD30KV.

I know you don't want to like it but you really should try it. If you can just stop comparing the a and e and just enjoy the experience. I think it'll make you smile!

I have chestnut, bubinga, beech, maple, ash etc kits on my Roland downloaded from vexpressionsltd.com. The kits they create are amazing and I for one have learnt a lot about listening to the different sounds that come from these e-kits. There's no way you can normally compare such a range of kits and even though their accuracy maybe less than perfect - I still find that experience useful.

Peace
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I've messed around on e-kits at music stores myself. Some of them actually sound pretty nice. But they aren't drums.

I just can't take electronic drums seriously. Part of my love of drums comes from massive kick drums that take up a lot of space, colors, hardware, tunin. You don't get any of that with e-drums.

I can see the convenience in them. But honestly, unless you have some sort of dissability, I think you should be lugging around an acoustic kit.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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But honestly, unless you have some sort of dissability, I think you should be lugging around an acoustic kit.
Why? .........................



Edit: I was cool with everything in this post until the leap was made to - "I think", therefore "you should..." That type of thinking is one of the huge things wrong with the world, IMO.

Last edited by IDDrummer; 04-28-2013 at 09:23 PM. Reason: Added useless commentary. ;-)
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:15 PM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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I


I can see the convenience in them. But honestly, unless you have some sort of dissability, I think you should be lugging around an acoustic kit.

I agree. ^ :rollseyes

Also, if you don't have tattoos, I can't take you seriously as a drummer.

:)


In the olden days, I was guilty of the image over substance thing. In retrospect, it is a bit embarrassing. Now, I have reversed my position 100%. For me, it is all about what the music sounds and feels like, not what it looks like.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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As far as the lazy thing, yeah, you are being old and stubborn. Are you lazy because you use modern conveniences like indoor plumbing? Are you lazy if you use a hand truck/dolly to move heavy objects? How about if you park as close to the door as possible when loading/unloading your gear? The list goes on forever.
Larry's point wasn't only the lazy part, the difference is that (and I guess this would an opinion) the end result is compromised with E-kits. Parking your car closer and thus having to walk a smaller distance doesn't affect the end result, your kit will eventually be set up, regardless of the effort put in. I guess boats would be a decent analogy as well, you could have the most hip and modern yacht, all metal and plastic, everything looks super "cool". Compare that to a really nice, well built wooden sailing boat, hand crafted details and all that. I know I'd pick the sailing boat...

Quote:
It turns out that, for what I/we do, it is a perfect fit. If what I do ever requires A drums, I will simply switch back.
Take the ride cymbal for instance, there are so many different ways it can be played, so many different sounds that can come out of it. Compare it to the rubber piece that is supposed to represent that cymbal. It is no way near as sensitive to different techniques, such as where it is played, on the bow with the taper of the stick, or the stick tip, or crashed with the mid part of the stick, crashed with the taper of the stick... I could go on forever. Suppose that an E-kit ride can be played in 10 different ways, then the acoustic ride can be played in 100 different ways. If not 1000.

I must also mention the joy in trying different cymbals in the store, going back and fourth, comparing, until you finally settle on that special cymbal, the one that really speaks to you. Then you bring it home, and start exploring it in the context of the kit as well, it is truly, music.

I just don't see this in E-kits. So you bought your kit. Now go download all the freaking sounds in the world, they still won't sound as lively and genuine as an A-kit. I've played those 4000 E-kits at the music store, compare to the ~4000 I've spent on my kit? As you may suspect, nooo way near. Compare it to a 8000 E-kit, still won't be as good. But sure, it must be getting closer.

So why doesn't your playing require an acoustic kit? My playing involves all those different sounds that the drums and cymbals allow, it's what makes my playing sound like me, it's a part of what makes me a good drummer.
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:06 PM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

Quote:
So why doesn't your playing require an acoustic kit?
I play amateur pop/rock/blues and when we play out, it is in in very small venues and the sound is as or more important than my/our abilities.

Right now, my ONLY concern is that we play with a good mix, in tempo and sing on key. The E kit solves a LOT of sound issues.

You mentioned the dynamics of your ride cymbal and it is a good example. I only use my ride in maybe 20% of my play. I am more of a HH guy. When I do use it, it is straight 1/8 notes. In the music I choose to play, the way I choose to play it, the dynamics of the ride cymbal are of no importance. I don't pick music apart and 99% of the people I play for do not either.

When the day comes when someone important tells me that they liked the music, but I should have a more dynamic ride, I will start to focus more on the details.


In my simple genre, it's bass and snare to keep tempo and simple fills and crashes between segments. I think that is what most people hear, if they are even paying attention to the drums. I'm a drummer, not a front man.

The E kick/snare/toms sound good to me so I'm confident they sound good to the general public. The cymbals are.........close enough :)


I have read over and over how drummers are in love with the sound of their A kits and I have tried and tried to achieve this feeling without success. I would love to sit at someone's "perfect" kit just to see if it is the kit or my expectations. My A's just don't sound good to me. I even had them professionally tuned. I learned a lot from it and they do sound better, but I'm hardly in love with them.

Like I said, for what I do, the E's are much better. The only drawback is some people's perception which, fortunately, I can easily disregard.

As far as being a good drummer? I am making progress but I wouldn't consider myself a good drummer. I am a competent drummer, a good musician and a superior human being :)




..
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: Met a guy who really likes his E kit

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My A's just don't sound good to me. I even had them professionally tuned. I learned a lot from it and they do sound better, but I'm hardly in love with them.
Now that's a new one on me. I've never met a professional drum tuner (outside of the numerous pro techs that I know, & half of them are extremely biased towards tuning methods that only really work in major venues).
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