DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Your Place > Your Gear

Your Gear Show your Gear - Pictures - Descriptions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:48 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Arky's DIY cymbal modification stuff

Hi people.
This thread isn't actually about me playing something but I've did some cymbal recordings in my homestudio.

A few months ago I started buying cracked cymbals to make bells out of them - inspired by those bells Gavin Harrison is using. I have 10 of those DIY bells now and have recorded some sound samples. I call this modding "straight to bell" modification ;-)

It's 10 bells with 3 samples each - 3 different ways of hitting them but applying the same ways of hitting across all bells, for better comparison. Using 2 different mics in different positions turned out as I expected/hoped: The Oktava MK-319 (large condenser) has way more treble/clearness while the Oktava ML-52 (ribbon mic) is much smoother/mellower.


Here's the links to my Dropbox Public folder where those bell samples can be retreived from:

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Public/...ound%20samples

(If you don't want to register with Dropbox (which is a cool way of sharing stuff with people) - tell me some alternative websites I could upload those samples.)

You'll find the following files there:
bells_samples trimmed_wav.zip (unpacked size is around 80MB)
bells_samples trimmed_mp3.zip (unpackped size is 7MB)

The WAV files are 44.1kHz/24 bit resolution, the MP3 files are 192.
A PDF chart provides additional info on the bells (make, size, pitch), plus I've packed a pic with all bells into those ZIP files.

As for the file names:
01 through 10 = # of bells in order of modification.
a through c = the different ways I hit those bells.
a = Hitting them towards the edge (at 3 o'clock position), with a sweep motion -> full harmonics and level.
b = Hitting them half-way on the bow (3 o'clock), and with the shoulder of the stick, w/ stick parallel to the floor.
c = Hitting them with the tip of the stick (6 o'clock), stick parallel to the ground.
Both the WAV and MP3 folder contain the PDF info chart and gallery pic of all 10 bells (see next post) to round up the listening experience.

(Stick used was a Pro Mark Todd Sucherman signature, SD330W - yes, sticks make a sound difference with cymbals, too.
I chose those hitting variations as they all result in different sounds, although b and c can be subtle depending on the bell.)

So if you like, say, sample "04_a.wav" and want to know which bell that actually is and how it was hit - it's the bell #4 in order of modification, listed in the PDF as that Stagg 15'' Crash bell, hit towards the edge.

My homestudio has no sound treatment whatsoever, and when I stood there with the headphones on I also heard my heart beating, a TV system and other vibrations from downstairs, plus some traffic noise. Seems this didn't make it on the samples but the noise level is significantly higher than in real pro studios of course.


As for the mics... The ML-52 has close to non-existing noise. I had to amplify this mic by around 55 dB, the MK-319 needed about 45 dB (varying amplification level depending on the bells). Blending those mics (shifting the pan from stereo mid to the left or right) provides an eq-like effect.

In the recordings/panning, the mic placement is the opposite as in the pic - the MK-319 is panned to the left, with the ML-52 panned to the right. Preamp was a Mindprint DTC (Dual Tube Channel) - but no EQ/compression used.

It was great fun recording the samples and it was interesting to see that sample recording calls for a consistent approach of positioning, hitting (dynamics) etc. I'm happy with the results and I hope you'll have some benefit from listening to those samples (or using them), too. I listened to some bell sound samples on the website of a music megastore and I like my bells in comparison to them.

For more infos on those bells - here's the link to a thread on the Derek Roddy forum. I was just too lazy to post all that stuff on Drummerworld, too. If you have questions etc - ask away.
Cymbal modification
http://www.derekroddy.com/forum/view...p?f=25&t=20898

I must say that originally I thought that I'd make enough bells for a bell setup like Gavin has (5 bells) and build a custom bell holder. But now it has turned into an addiction - I will collect/make more of them! It's interesting and fun to utilize cracked cymbals and you never know how the bells turn out, every time is like giving birth to something new. And then, those aren't bought from stock but it was _your_ work (cutting them, polishing the edges, and polishing the bells).
Attached Images
     
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:35 PM
TheFatMan202's Avatar
TheFatMan202 TheFatMan202 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 92
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

I have always been interested in cymbal modification, especially into bells! I'd absolutely love to take a listen, but when I click on the link it says it can't find the folder. =/

Anyway, great post, I can't wait to hear!
__________________
Visit my site, coltongerke.com!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:07 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Hey, thanks for your reply!

Seems you have to register with Dropbox, copy that link and insert it into your browser - should get you right there. You know, I almost never upload stuff so I wasn't sure where to upload it to. See attached snashot for the full link.

You can also PM me - tell me your direct e-mail address and I can send you the samples in MP3 format (around 7MB). If you like it you can go the Dropbox route and get the higher quality samples.

There's absolutely no magic involved in making bells from cracked cymbals (unless the cracks are rendering the bell useless). It's damn easy and fun making them. Just try it!
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Arky; 06-18-2012 at 10:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:14 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Ok, let's try another route - I think this one works (have uploaded those 2 ZIP files on MediaFire - as free membership).
Here's the link, you can download it from there:

http://www.mediafire.com/?76kie6fky6...r2vu3ar3qr6c9d

The files will be available for 30 days.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:25 AM
David Floegel's Avatar
David Floegel David Floegel is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nottuln, Germany
Posts: 767
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Wow they look good, and your method seems to be much easier than the way I cut down my cymbals.. :)

Will listen to them later (at work right now) but I'm sure they sound good! :)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:42 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Hey Kalma, on one German drum forum I found a thread where you said that one of your bells didn't sound good ("Sch*ße" was the term, haha) as it had not enough edge - I know what you mean ;-) #10 is one of those... I had no way to cut it larger in size as the cymbal was cracked right around the bell as I bought it, that specific cymbal was in a process of modifying itself into a bell - half of the mod was already done, I just helped a bit. Thus, this one has extremely short sustain - which might be a benefit depending on the musical situation.

As I don't have proper turning equipment my bells aren't perfectly round but I learned how to optimize what I can do. I think some slight out of roundness (we're talking 1, 2 mm max in diameter difference) doesn't alter the sound/resonance a lot. I might rework some bells around their edges for better roundness at some time.

The samples actually helped me reevaluate some of the bells. The bigger ones just look more impressive so the ears are "telling" me they should sound better, too. Some of those which don't look great (the one made from the Meinl 16'' crash) actually sound interesting if you don't look at them, haha. They all make sense due to their sonic differences. If you have enough of them you can build scales which is real fun. I have to make some holders for them soon.

Well I invested some time polishing them as pretty much all of them (the non-modified cymbals) came with quite some tarnish. I noticed that after the polish (I'm using "Gundelputz" to polish them) they quickly got tarnished so recently I repolished them, then applied the Paiste Cymbal Protector and also some linseed oil afterwards - this was some 2 weeks ago and they still look very good. This protection coating seems to work.

Some bells have a keyhole - that's because they were "repaired" by the previous owners, got out of balance but the owners continued to use/mount them so it was natural for them to develop keyholes. Which is no prob for bell modifications as they will stay in perfect balance if you tighten the cymbal felts just a little bit.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:37 AM
David Floegel's Avatar
David Floegel David Floegel is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nottuln, Germany
Posts: 767
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Hey Kalma, on one German drum forum I found a thread where you said that one of your bells didn't sound good ("Sch*ße" was the term, haha) as it had not enough edge - I know what you mean ;-) #10 is one of those... I had no way to cut it larger in size as the cymbal was cracked right around the bell as I bought it, that specific cymbal was in a process of modifying itself into a bell - half of the mod was already done, I just helped a bit. Thus, this one has extremely short sustain - which might be a benefit depending on the musical situation.

As I don't have proper turning equipment my bells aren't perfectly round but I learned how to optimize what I can do. I think some slight out of roundness (we're talking 1, 2 mm max in diameter difference) doesn't alter the sound/resonance a lot. I might rework some bells around their edges for better roundness at some time.

The samples actually helped me reevaluate some of the bells. The bigger ones just look more impressive so the ears are "telling" me they should sound better, too. Some of those which don't look great (the one made from the Meinl 16'' crash) actually sound interesting if you don't look at them, haha. They all make sense due to their sonic differences. If you have enough of them you can build scales which is real fun. I have to make some holders for them soon.

Well I invested some time polishing them as pretty much all of them (the non-modified cymbals) came with quite some tarnish. I noticed that after the polish (I'm using "Gundelputz" to polish them) they quickly got tarnished so recently I repolished them, then applied the Paiste Cymbal Protector and also some linseed oil afterwards - this was some 2 weeks ago and they still look very good. This protection coating seems to work.

Some bells have a keyhole - that's because they were "repaired" by the previous owners, got out of balance but the owners continued to use/mount them so it was natural for them to develop keyholes. Which is no prob for bell modifications as they will stay in perfect balance if you tighten the cymbal felts just a little bit.

Ha yeah I remember about that thread, but it was pretty long ago I guess?
But I guess it's logical that it doesn't sound good...

My chimes are not 100% round as well, I guess 1mm tolerance or something..
I always put the cymbals onto a screw and mount it into my drill machine and then hold a rasp against it.. (makes sense?) Works pretty good!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:46 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalma View Post
Ha yeah I remember about that thread, but it was pretty long ago I guess?
But I guess it's logical that it doesn't sound good...

My chimes are not 100% round as well, I guess 1mm tolerance or something..
Well I found that thread a few months ago when I was doing some research on DIY bells and how to make a bell holder. And I found some interesting ideas/tips/bell holder designs. My problem is finding suitable "bell screws/posts" - where the bellsare mounted onto. Finding/cutting a holder bar and drilling a few holes is easy of course. I've settled on the dimensions of a 5-way holder but haven't started with the build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalma View Post
I always put the cymbals onto a screw and mount it into my drill machine and then hold a rasp against it.. (makes sense?) Works pretty good!
Sure, that's the way Gavin describes it in the Q&A/FAQ section of his website. I haven't tried this approach yet. Cool to learn that some pro drummers are into DIY ;-)

I've cut a few of them with tin snips first. But those can bend the edges a bit which doesn't happen if you use a disk cutter. And I know that with a disk cutter I'll cut any bell in about 10 minutes or less, with no big strain on the hands and no blisters.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:32 AM
David Floegel's Avatar
David Floegel David Floegel is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nottuln, Germany
Posts: 767
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
I've cut a few of them with tin snips first. But those can bend the edges a bit which doesn't happen if you use a disk cutter. And I know that with a disk cutter I'll cut any bell in about 10 minutes or less, with no big strain on the hands and no blisters.
Had the same problem.. My dad said there were some special metal shears, though - so a "normal" metal shears might not work so good..
damn wanna hear your chimes now!! fucking meeting!! -.-
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:53 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Just modified 7 cracked cymbals (off Ebay, all from the same seller) into bells. I just couldn't let those auctions slip... Got away with a total of 54 Euros (shipping included) for all of them.

Cutting out the bells took about 24 minutes. Plus 20 minutes at the sanding block (reworking the edges), then smoothening the edges with a handfile & sandpaper, 2 hours polishing, 2 hours cleaning & conditioning.

Here's a "before" pic - will add some "after" pics and record new samples soon.

Plus some "after" pics, with the cymbals in the same order. I made it a habit to shoot pics after the bell mod in "mosaique" mode.

The last pic shows those first 9 bells (initially I made 10 but one of them sounded crappy, will discard that one) in the 2 background lines, with the new 7 bells in the foreground - no particular order, just did a group pic. Haven't checked the new bells out properly yet (pitch). But I'm sure that should be enough bells to form various scales/sound scapes.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Arky; 08-03-2012 at 09:55 PM. Reason: more pics
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-09-2012, 10:39 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

I made some more bells in the meantime...

Here's a group pic of the total of 25 bells I've made so far (plus 1 more which turned out crap as it had a crack right along the bell - not enough material to sound nice). Recently I bought 13 used cymbals off Ebay (cracked or already 'repaired') and made 9 of them into bells, that's my "3rd batch". See the 'mosaique' pic #2.

The last pic shows the tools I'm using.

I made sample recordings of the first 9 (initially 10) bells but haven't added samples of the newer bells. I've started finally making some bell holders.
Attached Images
   
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-09-2012, 10:51 PM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 15,916
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Wow, I missed this thread Arky. What work man!!! It ticks every box - recycling - smart thinking - creativity. Sweeet looking home studio too.
__________________
This message is brought to you courtesy of Thinly Veiled Productions inc.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-09-2012, 11:06 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Haha - thanks Andy! (Maybe I have too much time on my hands...)

It's so ridiculous to assume that once a cymbal has a crack it's 'broken' - yes it is compared to the original condition of course but as long as the bell and a minimum of bow around is intact you can always make something nice out of it. Or cut cymbals down to splashes (done this 4 times so far) - or do some O-zone style cymbals (done this once - a lot of work!).

As for creativity... I still haven't discarded all the remaining parts after the modifications. In fact some weeks ago I cut most of that rest material into whatever might be useful in the future - into cymbal rings (to stack them for sound effects). And I prepared a few 14'' and 13'' effects cymbal rings JoJo Mayer style, for electronic sound effects.

It's really become an addiction. And honestly buying various stuff and making bells out of it was my first real encounter with cymbals on the market. Now I have some better idea of what to look for and what to avoid. Although - that's my experience - even lesser quality cymbals can make a fine bell.

Here's some more pics - those 13 most recent cymbals (2 auctions, same seller).

That Sabian XS20 was useable in 'repaired' condition but I decided to reduce it to the next smaller size and getting rid of the 'repaired' area. It has lost some volume and fullness but still makes a fine crash.

I reduced those Meinl Generation X Thomas Lang cymbals (1 compressor crash, 1 klub ride) to 14'' because I wanted to use them as my 2nd hihat set. Their bows are so flat that they hardly close when mounted on my Tama Iron Cobra hihat stand. They're ok as splashes. If I made them into bells those bells would be by far the smallest so far - might be a very interesting sound.
Attached Images
   
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-10-2012, 02:58 AM
Toolate Toolate is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,706
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

nice work- ever try to make a lathe with a drill to turn them round that way? The brass is soft and would probably turn easily. I need more time to play like you- looks like fun.

I would also, with as many as you have, try my hand at hand hammering a few of them, maybe practice before cutting the bell out to learn how to do it and ehat the different patterns do to the sound so you could still have your bell.

Do you have 10 bells on your kit?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-10-2012, 09:14 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
nice work- ever try to make a lathe with a drill to turn them round that way? The brass is soft and would probably turn easily. I need more time to play like you- looks like fun.
Would be a nice and cool option - maybe in the longer run. For now I'm ok with my current procedure as I think I have the hang of it. After the first few bells it feels quite easy, I've still been perfecting some steps since then and for DIY (no turning equipment) they came out great. Bigger cymbals would benefit more from good roundness by lathes though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
I would also, with as many as you have, try my hand at hand hammering a few of them, maybe practice before cutting the bell out to learn how to do it and ehat the different patterns do to the sound so you could still have your bell.
I never thought of that. First I have zero experience in hammering (how to, and the effects or what I'd have to do in order to get which changes), and secondly I assume that the material basically has been 'finished' by the manufacturer meaning that at least some of the material had enough stress during manufacturing and probably wouldn't want to take much more. Might be different with cymbals/bells with (almost) plain/unhammered material.

I'm fine checking out how the bells sound after cutting the cymbals and they are all useable and nice sounding. I like their sonic characteristics and would rather collect more of them and group them to reasonable/desired 'families' (e.g. depending on scales/harmonic relationships) than just start experimenting with hammering them. But you're right - I do have a bunch of them and while some feel and sound (and also _look_) more hi-endish than others some of them (a few Paiste's) are quite similar in size, sound and pitch. So hammering would be an alternative to selling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
Do you have 10 bells on your kit?
Do you mean as from the pics of my drumkit in that "Show us..." thread? I put them up just for more practice fun and to accomodate some of them. My drumkit is brand new and the setup is constantly changing as I'm experimenting with placement, distances etc). For those pics I arranged the bells in a somewhat unorthodox way. I just started making some bell holders (basically the same design you see by those DIY'ers inspired by Gavin Harrison) and bought material for 2 5-way holders. I would integrate at least one of those holders into my setup - either placed on top of the hihat (stacked) or in close proximity. I'll certainly do more sound samples when the holders are ready because playing those bells in melodic/rhythmic patterns is where the real fun begins.


DIY bell holder
Here's more info on the materials for those DIY bell holders (got them from the local hardware store):
1x square tub (anodized aluminum, 16mm x 16mm x 1m) = 12.49 Euros
2x round ducts (anodized aluminum, 1 m each, fits/covers M8 threads) = 2x 2.79 = 5.58 Euros
2x threaded rods M8 (1 m each, stainless steel) = 2x 5.99 = 11.98 Euros
(Those 2 rubber hoses on the pics are for aquariums but can be used as cymbal sleeves - I have several cymbal holders with the sleeves missing.)
Makes a total of around 30 Euros for most of the stuff to make 2 bell holders of.

Dimensions (according to the drawing I made, based from a few DIY pics of bell holders I found on the web):
Length = 41.3 cm (The remaining piece of around 17 cm might be enough to make a 2-way bell holder, haha).
Width = 16mm (more than strong enough - the other DIY'ers seem to prefer 20mm). The distance between the bell posts will be 9.5 cm. The bells (or lower felts) will be placed at a height of 3.5cm (3x lower posts) and 10.0cm (2x higher posts) respectively.
I got one used Pearl cymbal stand off Ebay (probably an older model) and it came with a cymbal post/stacker which had pretty much the height and threads needed for those 5-way bell holders. Those Pearl (or other) posts/stackers might be available (starting from around 8 Euros each it seems) but I'll find another way to do it. I thought I'd use the round ducts to create the 'distance' I need, then put some cymbal sleeves (either going to buy some or find a substitute/workaround) on top of them, that's it - pretty simple I guess/hope.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-10-2012, 02:19 PM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 4,653
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

That's quite some home studio you have going there, Arky. Love the photos - fascinating and aesthetically pleasing all at once. Great stuff.

Lovely crisp recording of the samples ...

1c reminded me of a triangle
3b has a lovely, exotic sound
9a is a bit of a trip :)

In general I thought the "b approach" brought the best out of the bells (hitting them half-way on the bow and with the shoulder of the stick).

I went through a similar exercise, creating samples with a small metal cast of Buddha that was around the house - lovely tone when you tapped it, not miles from your #1a ... and it sounded a bit like 1b when he was struck on the head :)

I found it responded nicely to hard mallets and I expect your bells would too.
__________________
YouTube channel

Soundcloud stream
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-14-2012, 11:11 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

So here are some pics of the bell holders which I finally made. First I made 2, noticed a few things I could change, learned from my mistakes, decided to make another 2. I went for 10 cm pole spacing instead of 9.5 cm as planned initially.

Bell holders #1-2 are different in that I cut the holes (first drilled them, of course, going from small to larger drills, up to 6.5 mm to prepare for cutting the threads in M8 size) through the entire bar depth of 16mm. Thus, the poles can be screwed in to the full depth of the bar. But those threads have slight play and I also relied on the drilling jig I used to be perpendicular - it wasn't ;-)

So on bell holders #3-4 I went for better cosmetics (adjusted the jig to get better angles) and also decided to only drill/cut the middle hole through the entire bar material depth. The middle hole (thread) has to be there to mount the holder onto a cymbal stand with an M8 thread on top. Alternatively I could get some clamps so in this case no M8 threads are needed on the bottom side to mount the holder. As the other holes aren't drilled/cut through, the pole pieces can be screwed into the bar till a tight fit.

Assembly: Screwing the poles into the bar, putting the ducts onto them (for cosmetics, but also to provide a basis to put those M8 washers on top of them, then the bottom felts, bells, top felts, wingnuts - that's it. For now I only have regular M8 washers but want to get some with larger outer diameter so they would hold the felts better, just in case.

As you can see I don't have enough felts for all those bells. The stacked bells can be used alternatively but make a good match within the bell range on the specific holder. I've grouped bells into 'families' on 3 holders, 2 holders have bells in continuous diatonic scales! Not knowing exactly which felts I'll use on those holders, I decided to not cut the rubber hose into cymbal sleeves yet.

That holder to the left of the hihat and of course the one on the snare are holders #3 and 4.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Arky; 09-14-2012 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-29-2012, 06:31 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

(September 28th)

I've scored 4 (cracked/'repaired') cymbals off Ebay recently - they arrived yesterday.
On one cymbal I'm even unaware of the exact model. (Initially the seller had 4 separate auctions running. I made him an offer for all 4 of 'em so he cancelled the auctions and put up a bundled buy-it-now auction which I snatched right away.) So we have (L to R, top to bottom)...

1 Sabian AA Stage Crash 16''
1 Sabian HH Thin Crash 16''
1 Sabian HHX Evolution Crash 16'' (Dave Weckl signature series)
1 Zildjian Avedis Crash Ride 18''

It's obvious those were decent cymbals but now as they are they're more of effect sounds, some sound a bit china-like and most of them have significantly less sustain with the cutouts which the previous owner did. So I decided to mod them into bells right away and not waste time experimenting with splash versions or whatever.

When I was doing the markings I noticed that it took me way longer to do this as usual, I don't know why. And when it came to cutting them it felt like I was doing this for the very first time, like as if I had completely unlearned how to do it. Strange... But rough sanding the edges (which did take some time) was ok and in fact the rough sanding was so good that I needed very little reworking of the edges with the handfiles. I completed the remaining work in the late evening. Briefly checked the sound - all of 'em sound sweet. The smallest one fits exactly into one existing 'diatonic family' and even adds a chromatic note, haha. Haven't checked out where the other bells fit in but they're pretty spread in terms of pitch.

Another pecularity: On the bottom of that Evolution crash there's a signature. I might be completely wrong but it reads like "Dave Weckl". I've dropped the seller an e-mail to find out whose signature it is, haven't gotten a reply yet. Anyway, the signature was wiped off during the polishing so if it _was_ Dave's signature - I'll keep this in mind, haha. Have taken a detail pic of that signature though, just in case.

-------------

(September 29th)

Took some more pics of the finished bells (this time - sunny daylight) and some pics which might be plain stupid but I thought I'd do something else than every time, haha. Had to wait for those damn fish to appear at the right spot and then my cheapo camera needed a split second to shoot the pic so damn, I was too late... Thought it would be funny to have a pic with the bells lined up next to some fishing paraphernalia of my dad (BTW, he doesn't fish in our pond, haha).

(Please apologize for not ligning up the pics with the respective description - I simply don't know how to do this. So... first text, then pics.)

(Pic 1 / merged pics) Here's the pics I shot yesterday before doing the modding - as usual, top and bottom view.
As you can see there weren't too many alternatives to bell modification. Several of those cymbals are rather thin so they're wobbling around a lot with those flexed out rim areas. And that Avedis crash had some remaining crack even after that O-zone style mod so adding more holes wouldn't solve the problem. Plus I don't wanted to reduce them to splashes (additional cutting work) just to find that they don't really deliver, so -> bell mod.

(Pic 2 / merged pics) Here's the after pics, after cutting the bells and rough sanding the edges with the sanding machine (no polishing yet). Pics were done in the late afternoon, with poor daylight.

(Pic 3 / merged pics) Here's those stupid pics from today.
(Pic at the top/left corner is from yesterday though - for comparison.)

(Pic 4) Here's that mystic signature... is it Dave's? ;-)
Attached Images
    

Last edited by Arky; 09-30-2012 at 03:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-01-2012, 12:12 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Won 2 more auctions... G.A.S. in progress.

- Paiste 101 16" Crash
- Sabian AA Chinese 14"
- Zildjian Z-Custom Rock Crash 18''
- Zildjian Z-Custom Rock Crash 16''

- UFIP (Earcreated Cymbals) Experience Series 12'' (2 drill holes, still 1 crack)
- Paiste 2000 Sound Reflection 16'' (big crack)
- Platin Drums 14'' (with dents)
- Zultan Aja Series 17'' (crack)

At one time I thought I don't need to make splashes but in retrospect, I should have made some splashes out of those 3 Sabians (out of that 4 cymbal auction) I modded recently - they were thin and I think this is great for splashes. Might make some splashes from now on.

PS: I've sold those 2 Meinl Generation x cymbals. But will get a 2nd pair of hihats - that's why I modified those 2 GenX in the first place, they just didn't really work out as such.

To comply with this thread I'll record new samples from the fresh bells. Some vids would be nice, too. For the vids I'll present the bells grouped into families/scales.
Attached Images
  
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-03-2012, 01:57 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Just some eye candy, haha. A bunch of DIY bells, nice weather and some time on my hands... why not make some pics? ;-)

Have been thinking of some different/adjusted holder designs. Basically to cramp more of them on the same holder size (e.g. mounting 7 bells on a 5-way holder size bar) as many bells are rather small in diameter so that post distance of 10 cm seems too much. For those new holders I could use the remaining pieces from the 1 m aluminum bars. They could be attached as cross bars onto the main bar, the bells would be stacked at various heights for free access. Works in (my) theory...

Those from the bottom pics were rather uncomfortable to make. 4 bells didn't make it on the holders - see extra pic. I've stacked 'duplicate pitch' bells as those can be used alternatively but they do vary in sonic characteristics (different amount of harmonics) so swapping them actually makes some difference.

I've repolished a few bells yesterday. I had one bell that was just a litte flat to fit into a 'scale group' but I was surprised that the polishing brought up the pitch just as needed. So polishing has various effects, not just cosmetics.
Attached Images
          
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:07 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Some pics from the newest modifications...
More info tomorrow. (Im too tired for now, that 10 km run has finished me.)

No more DIY'ing ahead but one interesting auction ending on Sunday (6 cracked cymbals).
Attached Images
      
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-10-2012, 05:47 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Instead of rewriting I copied the post from my parallel thread in a parallel drum universe (Derek Roddy's website/forum), haha. The last few days of DIY'ing have been a bit chaotic and have kept me busy, I feel like I need some rest. (Or making more bell holders, having... what is it, 33? bells now.)

------

(October 6th)

One of those cymbal packs (UFIP, Paiste, Platin, Zultan) arrived.
As always I first checked their as-is sound.

Paiste 2000 Sound Reflection 16'' Crash:
Sounded impressive even with the crack. Must have been a sweet crash! Having (more than) enough bells I thought I'd utilize more of the cymbals than cutting them down to bells so I figured that Paiste would be good for a 12'' splash.
Polished the Paiste in the evening.

The Paiste splash sounded a bit harsh and direct to me. I thought adding some holes would make the sound more interesting.

Zultan CM17B Aja Series Crash (17''):
Sweet crash (thin material), pretty useable with the crack. I knew it had one crack but noticed a 2nd (smaller) crack when I polished that cymbal. It was clear that cutting this crash would be a waste. So I planned to make it into an ozone style cymbal, 'covering' the crack with a hole and adding a few more for aesthetics/balance. When I noticed the 2nd crack the hole configuration boiled down (due to the angles resulting from the crack position) to 6, or maybe 3, holes. The cracked cymbal was a bit out of balance as it came so I figured that the hole placement could be used to set off that dysbalance to some degree. I went for a 3-hole configuration. The holes had to be around/at least 6 cm in diameter to cover the main crack - I made them 6 cm. The 2nd hole to cover the smaller crack isn't exactly 120 degrees from the 1st hole but I displaced the perfect position as far as possible to still fully cover that 2nd hole. The 3rd hole was placed in average distance from the other 2 holes.
I polished that cymbal on the same day, did the hole markings on the following day (Sunday - no noise allowed) and did the cutting on Oct. 8th.
PS: I didn't check out the market price beforehand - seems the Aja 17'' goes for 59 Euros - my guess was way more than that! To me it sounds better than 59 Euros.
Polished the Zultan in the evening.

Ufip (Earcrafted Cymbals) Experience series 14'' Crash:
Sounded promising in as-is condition. I went for a bell diameter which wouldn't completely cover the cracked area but to have as much sound out of that specific (crippled) bell as possible. I didn't like the look though - the sound was surprisingly good for a 'less than optimum' bell - and sanded it down by a few mm's. The look was much better now! Surprisingly the bell still sounded good, the pitch remained exactly the same (I did a comparison with another bell from a 'diatonic' family). With those few mm's less rim it did lose a tiny bit of level but it's still useable. The resonance/body is poor (would have taken more edge material to begin with), this bell has an emphasis on harmonics, it cuts. (I'm considering selling it.)

Platin Drums:
Wow wow... Who manufactures crap like this?? Hahaha. It sounds so poor... On top of that - it _looks_ poor!
I could/should have discarded that one right away but no, it received the same treatment as usual. I had hopes the bell would sound nice... not really. Even the bell sounds thin, cheap, lifeless... But I noticed that this bell goes well with the only china bell I did so far. The Platin bell is 3 semitones higher in pitch but has somewhat similar sonic characteristics. (I don't really like that china bell, too.) I cut the bell and polished it on the same day.

----------

(October 7th)

Repolished the 2 bells from that most recent cymbal pack. That Platin bell took quite some polishing work to look ok. I'll have to buy new polishing paste soon. That Gundelputz polish lasted many years for guitar, studio gear and small stuff but gets some serious use now that I'm messing with cymbals, haha.

----------

(October 8th)

'Ozoned' both the Paiste 2000 and the Zultan Aja crash. The Zultan took about 15 minutes for cutting the holes - I figured a cutting disk would be too awkward/big to get this job done. It could be used but there would be more than enough material to be sanded away afterwards so I used a Dremel with small disks instead. Hadn't used Dremels for cymbal mods before so first I used the thin disks - and needed 2 of them to cut the 3 Aja holes.

The Paiste was a bit thicker but I thought I'd try and just continue with the Dremel. Igot through 4 or 5 of the thin disks (and had cut 4 holes on the Paiste util then) but then decided to try one of those thicker ones. Which was a good decision because that one disk made it for the rest, with not too much wear on it.

I'm keeping in mind I paid 13.60 Euros for that cymbal pack (shipping was extra)... Ok, those 2 bells aren't superb but I got 1 nice crash and 1 cool splash out of it.

I've made pics of everything, will edit & upload some of them later.

I found a notification card in the mail box - while I was working in the garage the delivery man came by (that other 4-cymbal package) but nobody opened. I'll pick up that other cymbal package in the afternoon or tomorrow - more modding ahead ;-)

- - -

EDIT: Picked those up in the afternoon. It was hard/impossible to judge from the orig. pic how close some cracks were running towards the bell section - overall those cymbals are pretty beaten up, haha. I briefly checked them for sound, pre-polished the bell areas (top and bottom) to save some time tomorrow and prepared the markings where to cut the bells.

- The Paiste 101 Brass 18'' Crash Ride leaves a so-so impression. The crack stops a mere 1 cm before the bell. On the Paiste I did the markings as if there was no crack, for maximum sound. Meaning after the cut there will be a tiny crack of a few mm length, shouldn't be a problem. In case the crack is audible I'd flex it out a bit.

- The Sabian AAX 14'' Mini Chinese is the only cymbal of those 4 which would allow to make a splash out of it (around 8'' max), but I've done the markings for bell dimensions. Not sure though... why not try the splash route and see how it sounds.

- The 2 Z Custom Rock Crashes 18'' and 16'' don't leave any more options but making bells out of them. The 18'' has a quite pronounced bell, I guess it'll be killer after the mod.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-10-2012, 05:51 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

(October 9th)

As you can see, first I cut out the UFIP bell a bit larger but then trimmed it down a bit, for cosmetics. Still a useable bell but one of those 'shrieking' ones with lots of harmonics.
Cut down the Paiste 2000 crash to 12'' but then decided to ozone-ify it.

The Zultan... had 2 cracks. Luckily their placement allowed for a 3-hole configuration to get rid of the cracks, plus the dysbalance of the cymbal got much better by drilling those holes. It crashes up nicely now. When cutting out the holes (Dremel tool with small cutting disk) I did straight cuts as you can see in the pic, later sanded it with a drill plus sanding bit. Actually as one of the holes was just marginally larger than the (main) crack that cut-out piece fell apart by itself, haha. On one of the other cut-out pieces you can see where I've marked the 2nd/smaller crack.

Oops... That's the double pedal below the PC desk ;-)

The Paiste 2000 crash as 12'' splash, plus the hole markings. The holes are a bit large in diameter in relation to the overall diameter but I thought that would be ok, plus I had a solder reel holder at hand which could be used to do the markings.

- - - - - -

Today's result of modding those 1x Paiste, 1x Sabian China, 2x Zildjian cymbals.

The Zildjian bells turned out as massive as I thought - they're just 1 semitone apart, with the bigger bell (from the 18'' crsh) being the _lower_ one in pitch! They have a crystal clear, glassy and cutting sound with more than enough harmonics. (I'm imagining the 2 Zildjian ZBT rides I had - see very first post of this thread - but sold them - would have made brutal bells.) Those new Zildjian bells overlap in pitch with other bells I have. But their rich harmonics are a nice addition as I don't have bells with the same pitch _and_ those super rich harmonics so I'm glad having them to create new bell groups.

The Paiste (brass) was weird to cut... When I was cutting it all of a sudden the cymbal 'flipped' when I got near the crack. Then a few seconds later it flipped again... man those Paiste brass cymbals do have some tension going on, haha.

On the bottom pic of the China you see the initial markings I did for the bell. Later I decided to make it a splash. The markings got off during polishing.

The last 2 pics are just for parade. (That Sabian XS20 was cut down to get rid of a crack.)

- - - - - -

The same 4 cymbals, with before/after pics. The labels don't always line up perfectly as you can see. I did try to stick to keeping them in a 'correct' position. On one of the Z's the logo is quite off compared to the top logo.

The Paiste bell has a tiny crack in the rim but it has no effect so I don't care. The bell does sound ok but I have better ones.
Oh boy, I just noticed... On the 'after' pic, the Paiste rim is flipped, haha. In the top row you see how the Paiste top looks like. On the 'after' pics I messed up the top and bottom ;-)

The Sabian Chinese - I made a splash instead of a bell - is actually crashable/trashable, not very loud but still has that Chinese sound to it. So it seems Chinese bells/splashes do need some diameter to work. The Chinese has quite thin material, too. This Chinese splash is a perfect fit to that crappy Platin bell and the other Chinese bell I have. Those in themselves were rather disappointing to me but in combination with the new Chinese splash they make sense. I'm looking forward to modding more (cracked) Chinese cymbals, haha.

As said in a previous post, on the 2 Zildjians I went for reasonable bell dimensions. On one bell there's a tiny trace of the crack so if I cut out another 1 mm there would be nothing left but it's no prob as is, it's almost invisible. So apart from the China the bells are actually the only reasonable mod I could do.

- - - - - -

Let's get ready to rumble! --- The tools I used. There's a new cutting disk on the workbench - that's the original size. The one attached to the Dremel is what was left when I was done with all the cutting.

Middle row: Those 3 new bells (Paiste, 2x Z's) plus the China splash. I had to remove one threaded rod as the China splash dimensions were a bit too large to accomodate that splash on the regular 5-way holder.

Bottom row: The 'China setup'. That (Meinl?) China bell, that cheapo Platin which seems to work fine in a China context, and the newest addition, the AAX China splash. On the China splash the Sabian logo came off during polishing but I left that label reading 'Mini Chinese 14''/36 cm'.

Those 4 cymbals ran me a whopping 1.50 Euros, haha! Plus a couple hours of work: guessing/from memory: 10-15 minutes cutting, 15 minutes at the sanding machine, some 40 minutes for reworking the edges, 30 minutes for polishing, another 30 minutes for cleanup and protection. That's around 2 hours. Maybe it was a bit more overall. [Honestly yes - when it comes to polishing/cleaning up I was washing my hands often. The polishing paste I'm using smells and makes my fingers turn black instantly - don't want to use gloves though. So for the cleanup it's basically a must to wash one's hands every 5-10 minutes.]

[===End of copied posts.===]


What a pity I don't know how to properly line up pics within a post to have text - pics - text - pics etc. So you have to figure out wich info refers to which pic.

Last edited by Arky; 10-10-2012 at 06:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-15-2012, 01:13 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

7 more cracked (or dented/abused) cymbals shipping... Paid 5 Euros per cymbal. The bells are ok, some cymbals could be made into splashes. 1 looks like a real cheapo (top left), I guess it'll sound horrible (I already have one of those - but that one fits well into the china bell range). Should get them by the weekend and probably mod them right away (can't wait to do some cymbal cutting - it's been awhile, haha).

Thinking about it... Better to simply sell on that cheapo cymbal, it's not worth doing anything with it.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-19-2012, 04:04 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Here's a 'mosaique' snapshot after cutting & polishing.
From top (left to right) to bottom (L to R) we have (maybe the polish made them sound a tad brighter):

- No-name/cheapo crash (probably Platin Drums) 16’’/40 cm --> surprisingly low pitch, poor sustain/volume
- Millenium Crash 13-13.5’’/34 cm --> low pitch considering the diameter, poor sustain/volume
- Paiste 302 Hi-Hat Top 14’’/36 cm --> unspectacular
- Paiste Alpha Sound Edge Hi-Hat 14’’ Top --> ok, clear sound
- Zildjian ZBT Crash 16’’/40 cm --> thin, cowbell like.
- Zultan 16’’/40 cm China "YiN" --> trashes up nicely, 2-3 semitones lower in pitch than the other existing china splash.
- Zultan [43cm17’’ Crash] (black metal - couldn't identify the exact model designation) --> clear, powerful/aggressive

That ZBT material had quite some tension, it 'flipped' while cutting it.
That china has quite thin material, cutting the splash felt like working butter with a knife, haha. I decided to leave the logos/labels on the Zultan china.
I cut the Zultan black crash free handed because it was hard/impossible to do the markings. I tried to keep a steady cutting distance to the bell outlines.

Quick garden foto session:
Center cymbal = that aggressive sounding Zultan bell/black material. That is, the black colour partly came off during the polishing, the result looks quite unique and cool IMO.
Those 2 china splashes; middle = that Paiste Alpha hihat bell.

That batch of DIY bells probably has the most so-so bells so far. Those mediocre bells might make a fine addition into existing bell groups though, let's see.
Attached Images
     

Last edited by Arky; 11-20-2012 at 12:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:57 AM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Our Drumerworld member Mad About Drums has created a nice picture with 2 lovely ladies I mentioned in his thread (Rachel Hurd-Wood and Caroline Munro)...

MAD's cartoons & CD covers...
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?t=101524

Here's the pic ;-)

For those who don't know - Caroline Munro (depicted on the right) had a brief appearance in a James Bond movie (The Spy Who Loved Me) and 2 more prominent roles in The Golden Voyage Of Sinbad (classy costumes!) and in the trashy SciFi movie Star Crash (as Stella Star).
Rachel Hurd-Wood (depicted on the left) was starring in The Perfume (plus a few more movies, but check her out in The Perfume!!!). Both The Perfume and that Sinbad movie have excellent soundtracks BTW.

- - - -

As for the bells - I've been refocussing on other stuff recently but will finish grouping them into 'families' and finally record more samples and/or some demo videos.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-20-2013, 12:14 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

It's been awhile... I was trying to stay away from buying more (cracked) cymbals and was even successful for quite some time but couldn't resist those 2 - Zildjian Z-Custom crashes 18'', 19''. As usual, I got them via Ebay/2nd hand, they haven't arrived yet. They've already been 'repaired' by the previous owner.

Not sure whether to mod them into splashes (having enough intact area around the bell) or doing a straight to bell mod. - I had 2 Z-Custom bells before - they were extremely loud/cutting/glassy but I gave those to a drummer fellow, haha.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-20-2013, 01:02 PM
Chromium's Avatar
Chromium Chromium is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 162
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Hi Arky,
I downloaded your samples and intend loading them into my new SPD-SX. Just wanted to say thanks, as I think they may be useful to complement my TD20 kit. If you have any more they would be very much appreciated.
__________________
Cheers,

Chromium
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-20-2013, 01:12 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Hey, that's cool! Those DIY bells are a great way to save yourself some money because all those brand bells aren't anything extraordinary compared to DIY, provided you get some half decent (cracked) cymbals to begin with. That's my impression from a few quick listening comparisons but also from feedback I got (on facebook, from a drummer group).

I should record some more. With a bit more samples per bell - because they do have different timbres depending on how you're hitting them.

Currently I have some 35-40 (a handful crappy sounding ones, too, plus 2 Chinese splashes), the samples are from the first 10 bells I've done. So there's a lot of newer stuff to record. I think this time I'll provide the full samples like before (letting the bells ring out completely) but also some processed samples with hotter levels and less ringing time, for more real world situations.

TD20? Wow - must be fun. I had a TD9 for temporary use - that would be the minimum in e-drums for me personally.

Last edited by Arky; 02-20-2013 at 01:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:51 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,671
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Wow, how did I miss this thread before?

I love bells!

I've been wanting to do the same kind of thing for some time, but lack the proper equipment to cut the cymbals.

I'm going to have to download the samples when I'm at home.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-04-2013, 06:45 PM
musical_complexity's Avatar
musical_complexity musical_complexity is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mumbai,India
Posts: 1
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

What do you guys use to cut these cymbals?
I live in India, and here we don't have garages or backyards..
So please recommend me something I can use on my inside my home.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-04-2013, 07:04 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

The tools I'm using have already been mentioned, plus pics - see posts #11 and #21:

This is what I've been using:
* disk cutter
* dremel tool (to cut out cracks or for O-zone styling)
* sanding block
* hand files
* sandpaper
* polish

Not quite sure what tools you can use if you don't have e.g. a disk cutter - because that tool is super handy for cutting work. I would not recommend using tin snips because those will/can bend the edges and you don't want this to happen.

BTW, I've sold a few of those o-zoned cymbals, somehow I didn't really need them. Also bought a few new (cracked) cymbals, enough material to make splashes instead of straight-to-bell mods.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Arky; 03-04-2013 at 07:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-17-2013, 01:41 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

More cymbal DIY'ing - this time I went for modding 5 cracked cymbals into splashes as I have (more than) enough bells and for more variety in sound.
I went for the biggest diameter possible, just enough to get rid of the cracked areas. Pics in the first 3 rows are pics from the orig. Ebay auctions.

* Paiste 2002 16'' Crash
* Sabian AAXtreme China 15''
* Zildjian A-Custom Projection Crash 19''
* Zildjian Z-Custom 18'' Crash
* Zildjian Z-Custom 19'' Crash

The splash made from the Z-Custom 18'' has a slightly inverted edge after the cutting - that's because with those areas removed, the stability/balance of the cymbal has changed. It needs to be rehammered to get it into 'normal' shape. Some rehammering and/or lathe processing would be a good idea to get the most out of cymbals modded into splashes but I have no experience in hand-hammering yet and no means to lathe so this is theory for now.

The Sabian China splash has some cracks around the middle hole, the material is rather thin and in total the modded cymbal sounds rather soft and unspectacular. It's some 2 semitones away from another china splash I have so while it's not impressive per se it might work in a certain setting.

As for the other splashes - hard to describe them but they all sound interesting in their own way, still quite some volume/meatiness left. I should check out some splash cymbals at my music dealer next time to get a better understanding of what they're supposed to sound like and then decide whether to rework those DIY splashes.

The A-Custom Projection Crash was the only crash where I decided to cut the remaining outer area for 'cymbal ring' applications (either keeping it or selling it on). That ring can be used for sound effects.

Haven't polished them yet, and the edges need some reworking beforehand.
Attached Images
      

Last edited by Arky; 03-17-2013 at 02:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-29-2013, 05:22 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: bell sound samples (from DIY bells)

Here's a few pics of those 5 crashes modded into splashes (polished).
Attached Images
  
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-10-2013, 07:35 PM
CharlieMingus's Avatar
CharlieMingus CharlieMingus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hartlepool
Posts: 11
Default Re: Arky's DIY cymbal modification stuff

Wow now Ive seen these mods its got me thinking. I have a sabian 16 inch crash I've never really used. Anyone have any ideas what could be to it to make it sound better/differnet. Or shall I just cut 6 holes in it ha.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-10-2013, 07:50 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: Arky's DIY cymbal modification stuff

You can do pretty anything with it.

I've o-zoned around 4 cymbals so far (for various reasons - mostly to 'get rid' of cracks, and one time just for the fun of it). And a few holes won't even have a big impact on the sound. The holes need to be large enough or you'd have to make a good number of holes, even the sustain/level wouldn't drop too much. And o-zoning a cymbal doesn't automatically make it better sounding.

Alternatively, you could cut it down. The bell should sound fine - bells sound rather good even with so-so cymbals. Or leave some more rim around the bell so you'd have a large bell/mini splash - great per se or stacked (what about operating stacked cymbals with your foot? like some do with ribbon crushers). Just keep in mind that cutting a cymbal down will considerably alter the cymbal tension so it would tend to sound less 'round' and a bit harsher. In this case some re-hammering and/or lathing would be a good idea. (I don't have any experience in this regard and also no lathing tools.)
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-10-2013, 07:59 PM
Chromium's Avatar
Chromium Chromium is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 162
Default Re: Arky's DIY cymbal modification stuff

Hey Arky, great work... If you ever get chance to post some sound samples of the newer bells and o-zoned cymbals I'd be really grateful as your previous samples sound great on my SPD-SX. Thanks again for the earlier samples.
__________________
Cheers,

Chromium
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-10-2013, 08:32 PM
CharlieMingus's Avatar
CharlieMingus CharlieMingus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hartlepool
Posts: 11
Default Re: Arky's DIY cymbal modification stuff

Hey thanks for the advice. I like the idea of something on another footpedal. Ill look into it.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-10-2013, 08:36 PM
Lovetadraw's Avatar
Lovetadraw Lovetadraw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 370
Default Re: Arky's DIY cymbal modification stuff

Ever made mini hats with these?
__________________
Christopher Walken would be pleased.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-10-2013, 08:44 PM
Arky's Avatar
Arky Arky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: Arky's DIY cymbal modification stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetadraw View Post
Ever made mini hats with these?
Sure, tried it a few times. But...

1) It's efficient if both cymbals have about the same diameter (for some more 'real' hihat playing feel) although if you're only operating the mini hihat with your foot, any mismatch in diameter will work, maybe with the splash sounds being less effective/impressive.

2) Cymbals that have been cut down tend to have thicker edges than they would normally have (after the lathing process). So they don't exactly behave like hihats when you press them together. Also, if you use pretty small mini-hats (like 2 bells) the splash sound might be somewhat cool but the overall level is rather low.

Rather at the beginning of my cymbal DIY period I cut down a pair of Zildjian ZBT hats from 14 to around 11.5 inches (from memory) and those weren't spectacular after the mod (well, were they before the mod? haha).

What I did most recently was creating a (practice) hihat with those 5 splashes which I just made. Those are ok for foot operation but too small in diameter for useable hihat sounds when played with sticks. Their level is significantly reduced, too - which is fine for practice purposes.

I also created mini-hats with 2 Meinl Thomas Lang Generation X signature crashes/rides. Those are relatively thin and the mini-hats were pretty low in volume. Again, from a practice perspective that's a good thing. I've sold them though.

Overall I think all those DIY cymbals are fun tools and there's enough ways to be creative with them. But apart from cutting them down to the bells anything 'in-between' is going to sound 'experimental', from ok to unpleasant (because of the disturbance of cymbal tension and improper edge thickness). Ultimately any cut-down cymbal should get some after processing to explore their full potential.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com