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  #1  
Old 03-24-2013, 03:38 PM
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WalterKohn WalterKohn is offline
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Default Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

Hello to all,

This is my first post, but I have used this site for reference for about 2 years. Basically I have a 6.5x14" Black Beauty which I just bought new from Guitar Center about a week ago. The stock "P-85 Strainer" busted in one session...... "Who woulda thought right.." So I looked into alternative throw-off's, Trick, P-86 and the not to sure what the real name is Dunnett R4-L or Gibraltar Dunnett "L Style" throw off. After searching online and reading forums and posts I decided to go with the R4-L.

I ordered it from DCP and Shane sold me his last one. When I received it I was ecstatic, but after taking off the P-85 and lining up the R4-L to my dismay the wholes did not match the notch on the underside of the R4-L. So after about 4 hours of fiddeling and contemplating how to fit this without harming the shell, I decided to make a gasket much like the ones on the classic lugs for newer BB's so that I would have a strainer and it wouldnt damage the bead nor the shell until I figured out what's next.

I then found a forum where Ron Dunnett himself said the first batch of R4-L's, the wholes did not match because Ludwig raised there mounting holes by 3/16th of an inch. Obviously the one I received is the old batch from 2011 but now I am looking for the new batch that has no notch and has holes instead. I have found many sites online that sell the R4-L but no one can seem to tell me if it's the newer modified version or the original version. Has anyone here on this forum bought a R4-L that is compatible with "Newer Black Beauty's"? If so what site did you use? Can anyone post pics of what the newer R4-L looks like from a few angles?, so that I can distinguish what the difference is if any other then holes insteand of notches.

Any and all replies will be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks,

Walter
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:43 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

Welcome to the forum!

Ahhhhhh. So the holes were moved?
That probably explains why the R4-L hasn't been available (for well over a year). I wanted at least one of these for my BB's as well, and now I know why.

Even now, when I click "buy" links from Gibraltars site, no one has them. I've never even seen one of these in person.

I'd contact Ronn by email, or a Facebook message, and see if he can shed any other light on the subject.
The parts are probably made by Gibraltar, so it's a supply/shipping issue on their part--and then if some specs were changed by Ludwig, imagine the nightmare!

Your solution seems to work for now, but yeah, it would be nice to have one "fit" the way it's supposed to. For 60-70 bucks for a strainer, you want it to be right.

If the R4-L just bums you out too much, a P-86 will be much nicer than the 85 that blew up.
I've had no issues with mine (10 of them now) since they were put on. The oldest have been on a long time, I can't remember how long--8-9 years probably.

Good luck with this--and enjoy your snare!!
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:04 PM
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WalterKohn WalterKohn is offline
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

Thanks Carl,

Yea I went out on a limb when I bought it from DCP without actually seeing one in person myself. I am going to order a P-86 I think I read a lot of forums and posts about that strainer being just a tad better then the P-85. If I ever get a answer from Ron Dunnett I'll let you know. It costed me 1$ on Facebook to even message him... Thanks again for the quick reply.

Walter
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

I bought an R4L throwoff for my brass supra. Got it from Memphis Drum Shop around 6 months ago (they had them in stock.)

I had the same experience as the original poster. Even though you can slide the bolts up and down in "channels" on the throwoff to make everything line up, the top bolt wouldn't go quite high enough. Since there's the "bead" in the shell and a cutout in the R4L, that's kind of a big deal.

I talked it through with Ron Dunnett (who was a nice guy, buy the way). The options were to make the top hole in the shell a little bigger or return it for a refund. I actually ended up using a Dremel to grind down the head on the top bolt a little, which allowed it to go up more. It's SUPER close to lining up now, so I just installed it as is and haven't had any issues!

It's a pretty nice piece of machinery! Maybe a little over-engineered for a throwoff, but very nice.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

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Originally Posted by WalterKohn View Post
Thanks Carl,

Yea I went out on a limb when I bought it from DCP without actually seeing one in person myself. I am going to order a P-86 I think I read a lot of forums and posts about that strainer being just a tad better then the P-85. If I ever get a answer from Ron Dunnett I'll let you know. It costed me 1$ on Facebook to even message him... Thanks again for the quick reply.

Walter
Ron is a member here. You can send him a PM for free (always suggest donations to the site though :) I'm sure he'd be delighted to answer your question.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
I bought an R4L throwoff for my brass supra. Got it from Memphis Drum Shop around 6 months ago (they had them in stock.)

I had the same experience as the original poster. Even though you can slide the bolts up and down in "channels" on the throwoff to make everything line up, the top bolt wouldn't go quite high enough. Since there's the "bead" in the shell and a cutout in the R4L, that's kind of a big deal.

I talked it through with Ron Dunnett (who was a nice guy, buy the way). The options were to make the top hole in the shell a little bigger or return it for a refund. I actually ended up using a Dremel to grind down the head on the top bolt a little, which allowed it to go up more. It's SUPER close to lining up now, so I just installed it as is and haven't had any issues!

It's a pretty nice piece of machinery! Maybe a little over-engineered for a throwoff, but very nice.
I was actually going to do that but decided not to because its for my Black Beauty which we all know how expensive it is. I wanted everything to be top notch and perfect on it. Plus did not want to be out 70$ if it did not work plus put out another 60$ for a P-86... Thanks for the reply can you post a picture of what yours looks like after you used the dremel. I just want to see how close it is to the bead.


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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Ron is a member here. You can send him a PM for free (always suggest donations to the site though :) I'm sure he'd be delighted to answer your question.
Thanks I did not know he was a member here, I don't mind spending a 1$, he does fantastic work and I appreciate all his products.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

Could the Dunnett part be modified at all, instead of the holes on the shell?


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums...nare-throw-off

It's nice when they show the list price--Parts don't really get discounted more than 30% usually, stores don't get much off on parts.
Some prices I have seen are stupid expensive though...along with a few totally, absolutely delusional people on eBay...holy cow....
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:28 PM
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WalterKohn WalterKohn is offline
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
Could the Dunnett part be modified at all, instead of the holes on the shell?


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums...nare-throw-off

It's nice when they show the list price--Parts don't really get discounted more than 30% usually, stores don't get much off on parts.
Some prices I have seen are stupid expensive though...along with a few totally, absolutely delusional people on eBay...holy cow....
Yea maybe possible on the R4-L but I dont have the patience nor the tools to do it. I called DCP today and told them, I ordered a P-86 from them as well and I will return the R4-L to them when I get the P-86. The R4-L will fit any BB or Supra before 1990 as they made the change to the strainer mounting holes around then. That's what Ron Dunnett said in posts on other forums. Well see how the P-86 is, if I dont like it ill order the Trick GS007 in chrome and get a retroplate for my BB. I mean you figure that someone out there could make a really good throw off for Ludwig being that the 2 best drums ever made (Supra & BB) have the worst choice in stock P-85 or slight upgrade P-86 throw offs. Does not make any sense to me. It's like a Ferrari Or Lambo not coming with A/C or Power Windows....

Trick GS007 Chrome:
http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...2&currency=USD

Trick Retroplate Ludwig:
http://www.dwsnare.com/html/Ludwig_Drums.html
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

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Originally Posted by WalterKohn View Post
I mean you figure that someone out there could make a really good throw off for Ludwig being that the 2 best drums ever made (Supra & BB) have the worst choice in stock P-85 or slight upgrade P-86 throw offs. Does not make any sense to me. It's like a Ferrari Or Lambo not coming with A/C or Power Windows....
Agreed, although it's really the drum manufacturer who should be sorting that out, not the after market guys. I'd change "best drums" to "most popular drums" too ;) ;) ;)

As a general point, Ludwig's priorities confuses me. They've recently been bringing out some cool & innovative hardware stuff (e.g. their new multi mounting bracket), & that's very pleasing to see, yet they ignore the two most universally maligned aspects of their drums, cheap nasty strainers & lug splay.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:00 PM
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WalterKohn WalterKohn is offline
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Agreed, although it's really the drum manufacturer who should be sorting that out, not the after market guys. I'd change "best drums" to "most popular drums" too ;) ;) ;)

As a general point, Ludwig's priorities confuses me. They've recently been bringing out some cool & innovative hardware stuff (e.g. their new multi mounting bracket), & that's very pleasing to see, yet they ignore the two most universally maligned aspects of their drums, cheap nasty strainers & lug splay.
Well I agree with you on the the strainer ordeal... The P-85 to me is absolute garbage, I love my LM402 and LB417. I think Ludwigs perspective is that the both the Supra's and BB's are still in high demand and the price tag is quite hefty so if people keep buying it why change it. Like "if it aint broke don't fix it"... But umm... Ludwig the P-85 is broke as a joke... please fix it....

Now for the lug splay you talk about and is reference, not tooting my own horn but if you know how to properly seat a head and tune there will be none. Normally I use 1/2 turns when I tune any snare drum other then Ludwig, but with Ludwig I will do 1/8 to 1/16 turns to tune it, so that there is no lug splay. Try it, go buy 2 new heads of your choice, batter and res. Put your Supra or BB on the what ever is the most level table you have. Put your hoops on and stand up straight over what your tuning. Start with one lug to get finger tight making sure that the tension rod sits perfectly over the oval in the hoop. Once you do all ten finger tight then use 1/8 or 1/16 turns for tuning, I promise there will be no splay. It might take a little longer but if you took the time to save money for a Supra or BB you can take your time tuning.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

Agree on the lug splay issue. I don't get it on my drums either. I just take my time.
Finger tight, then a little at a time. The drum gets in tune better that way, and it's easier to keep it in tune because the head wasn't pulled unevenly on one side or the other.
Two drum keys help doing this too.
It's all in how much time you want to take with your gear. Is it a drum, or is it your instrument?
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

I'm also new here, have found a lot of useful information here, so thank you for the great forum!

I have a 66' Supra that has really worn butt and strainer, they don't hold snare-tension anymore so I'm looking for replacements. I know I can get a new butt from Ludwig but I'm unsure about the strainer. Is Dunnett better than P-86? Does it even fit old Supra like mine? I read this thread but I'm still a bit confused. I like really tight snares every now and then so I need a strainer that holds tension well. I don't mind the look of Dunnett, so that's no issue.

Here's a link to Thomann from where I'm most likely buying it from. Is it possible to tell if this is the new or old version?

http://www.thomann.de/fi/gibraltar_s..._throw_off.htm

So what do you think, Dunnett or P-86? Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:38 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

I don't think there is any way to tell the new version from the old one. Maybe by the package, or, when they got their supply in. You'll have to take their word on it.

Personally, I'd just go with a new P-85 or P-86, with a new butt that is the same as what you have. The new die cast butt from Ludwig doesn't match the hole spacing.

On a '66, I'd keep it as "stock" as possible. If you go with an 85, spray it with a teflon/silicone type lubricant, that way it will work very smoothly and not bind. It's pretty cheap, made by DuPont... ($4.95 at Lowes, etc...)

The P-85 and P-86 have the same hole spacing as what you have.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

Ok, maybe it's not worth the effort then. I kind of like the idea of hot-rodding my Supra with the Dunnett strainer, but I hate to order stuff from the net and then ship it back when it's not working....

So P-32 fits, but P-33 (die-cast) doesn't? Good to know, I might have made a mistake there. I think I'll try one more time to make it work with original parts, maybe try a different kind of string to attach the snare wires, it occured to me that what I'm using now might be slipping. And if that doesn't do it, I can get a new P-85 or 86 easily from Helsinki where I live.

Thanks for the reply Karl, much appreciated!

Lauri
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Dunnett R-4L 2011/12 Model Vs 2013 Model???

Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterKohn View Post
Hello to all,

This is my first post, but I have used this site for reference for about 2 years. Basically I have a 6.5x14" Black Beauty which I just bought new from Guitar Center about a week ago. The stock "P-85 Strainer" busted in one session...... "Who woulda thought right.." So I looked into alternative throw-off's, Trick, P-86 and the not to sure what the real name is Dunnett R4-L or Gibraltar Dunnett "L Style" throw off. After searching online and reading forums and posts I decided to go with the R4-L.

I ordered it from DCP and Shane sold me his last one. When I received it I was ecstatic, but after taking off the P-85 and lining up the R4-L to my dismay the wholes did not match the notch on the underside of the R4-L. So after about 4 hours of fiddeling and contemplating how to fit this without harming the shell, I decided to make a gasket much like the ones on the classic lugs for newer BB's so that I would have a strainer and it wouldnt damage the bead nor the shell until I figured out what's next.

I then found a forum where Ron Dunnett himself said the first batch of R4-L's, the wholes did not match because Ludwig raised there mounting holes by 3/16th of an inch. Obviously the one I received is the old batch from 2011 but now I am looking for the new batch that has no notch and has holes instead. I have found many sites online that sell the R4-L but no one can seem to tell me if it's the newer modified version or the original version. Has anyone here on this forum bought a R4-L that is compatible with "Newer Black Beauty's"? If so what site did you use? Can anyone post pics of what the newer R4-L looks like from a few angles?, so that I can distinguish what the difference is if any other then holes insteand of notches.

Any and all replies will be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks,

Walter
Also new here. I have a new Black Beauty, bought the Dunnett throw off and had the same problem as everyone else. I then took one of the screws from the original P85 strainer, put it at the top slot and then used one of the supplied Dunnett screws for the bottom slot annnnnnnnnnnnnnd IT WORKS!!!! No drilling & no modification to the throw off! I'll post some pics here in a bit.
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