Saw a UFO at band practice tonight!

[larryace]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

The universe is huge, but time is much more vast.

We are really alone.

But time and space are interchangeable. For instance, if I ask how far Chicago is from Philadelphia, you could choose to answer 12 hours (or whatever it is). So I asked you a distance question and it was answered in a time format. So time as we understand it and the size of the universe as we perceive it are directly related. There are parts of the universe that are so much older than we are, by millions and millions upon millions of Earth years, so they had a giant head start. Is your birthday in May?

[larryace]

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso

I'll point out that you're the one who added in the anal part of this. I could have been referencing the probing of any number of Larry's orifices.

Just for the record, none of my orifices have been probed by anyone not of this planet. Which implies that my orifices have been probed. Technically they have been. Doctors, well meaning girlfriends...that's about it really....There was that one time in jail...Bubba...sigh...lol

One of my prior girlfriends claimed she was abducted by aliens. This woman was a respectable 5th grade teacher, from a good family. She claimed to have physical proof. On both her temples there are injection sites that she claimed the aliens made. She claimed multiple abductions, and one of the highlights was that they gave her orgasms without any touch, a mental thing. As open minded as I am, I had a little trouble believing her, it was pretty far out. But I did see the injection sites on her temples, both of them.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Originally Posted by larryace

. But I did see the injection sites on her temples, both of them.

Sure it wasn't just marks left over from the electroshock therapy?

As much as the free orgasm thing is a bit of a novelty, I'm still calling for you to run....don't walk......away from the mad woman, Larry.

[larryace]

Well that was a number of years ago. Nice person, we had a lot of fun. How can a person who is totally intelligent, well traveled and respectable in every way, come out with this kind of stuff? I just do not know, but I'll tell you, I'm not poo pooing anything until it's proven to me. We can't be the only intelligent life forms, it just doesn't add up. Like Watso says, whatever is out there is probably weirder than we can even imagine.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Originally Posted by larryace

we had a lot of fun.

Hey, all those free orgasms and you didn't have to do squat......how could you not?

How can a person who is totally intelligent, well traveled and respectable in every way, come out with this kind of stuff?

I ask the same question every time my old man comes at me with a bible in his hands.:-)

[Dr_Watso]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

The universe is huge, but time is much more vast. It could be that life forms pass each other in the night, separated by millions of years and millions of light years.

That's essentially why I say I know we can't be the only "life" in this vast expanse of both space and time. Relativity is a funny thing. We really have to think outside our own relative worlds to get into this.

The universe is about 14 billion years old and the Earth, 4.5 billion years. Life on Earth: 3.6 billion years. Sentient live on Earth: Maybe 200,000. So, for the entire life of the universe, life has existed for less 25 one-hundredths of the time and sentient life for 14 millionths of the time. And I'm not even speculating whether interplanetary travel is possible, practical, useful or affordable. Entire species could evolve, do their thing and their solar systems crumble and the species, at the interplanetary traveling stage, might never get closer together than a million years.

You touch on one of the points that interests me. Intelligence. Again, relative. I've never been a big fan of the theories that there are other "more advanced" civilizations out there. I think although energy as a concept is the same in most of the fathomable universe, I just don't see it happening the same way as it did for us. I think other "life" out there could be so different that we might not even be able to dream it up on our own.

The closest thing life ever gets to interplanetary travel is on comets, carrying amino acid fragments and the seeds of life from one planet to the next.

I think that there is a good chance this happened here... Maybe even more than once. I have mentioned before around here my theory that viruses came in on "space debris" of some type. It's so different from the ground up to other life, yet preys upon other carbon lifeforms for it's existence outside a dormant state.

We are really alone.

Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps there are furry little midget aliens eating cats and being hidden in standard nuclear families as we type.

[slowrocker]

The truth is, at this point we cannot prove or disprove life on another planet. Maybe there is a place like earth with life. I do not believe there are humans or any creature similar on another planet, but that is just my opinion. Its all about guessing and weird occurrences such as the one mentioned earlier.

[Mad About Drums]

Originally Posted by larryace

We can't be the only intelligent life forms, it just doesn't add up. Like Watso says, whatever is out there is probably weirder than we can even imagine.

All I will say is there's no smoke without a fire... one day we'll know, soon or later.

[slowrocker]

Originally Posted by Mad About Drums

All I will say is there's no smoke without a fire... one day we'll know, soon or later.

Yes we will. Maybe I will try to talk to God about it in heaven...

Not trying to offend anyone by saying that, but that is where my confidence is.

Back to the subject though, humans could possibly get advanced enough to travel to planets we haven't even discovered at this point. It sounds crazy, but technology is getting crazy.

[tamadrm]

Dr Neil De Grass Tyson of the Hayden Planetarium,and Dr.Michio Kaku of NY University and Dr.Stephen Hawkings have interesting theories concerning Extraterrestrial LIfe and space travel.Dr. Kaku believes that there are what he calls type one civilizations out there,which are just way above us on the evolutionary scale as we are to single cell organisms.He also believes that their laws of physics are different than ours,and faster that light travel is childs play to them.

They have found ways around known physical laws,and are in complete control of everything around them including weather,clean energy and even their own sun.

Dr.Hawkins believes this also,but has also gone on to say that taking for granted that these beings are benevolent would be a mistake.Intellegence is no gurantee and,that they are SO far advanced that they would reguard us much in the same way as we do the common ant.

They might NOT have the same reguard for life as we do,considering the disparity of our two civilations.Just look no further than 60-70 years ago when "Intellegent" men Killed tens of millions of innocent people,just as easily as turning on a light..Using that as a benchmark,how could they reguard us as anything more than savage and dangerous.

I've seen things that I can't explain,and some that were exactly the same as Andy's UFO sighting.

As for letting the public know.There would be a complete break down of social services,and complete panic would soon set in.Just look what happens in black outs once the mob mentality rears it's ugly head.I've been in a couple of riots as a cop,and you wonder how "humans" can act this way.

Something to think about.

Steve B

[8Mile]

Originally Posted by tamadrm

Dr Neil De Grass Tyson of the Hayden Planetarium,and Dr.Michio Kaku of NY University and Dr.Stephen Hawkings have interesting theories concerning Extraterrestrial LIfe and space travel.Dr. Kaku believes that there are what he calls type one civilizations out there,which are just way above us on the evolutionary scale as we are to single cell organisms.He also believes that their laws of physics are different than ours,and faster that light travel is childs play to them.

They have found ways around known physical laws,and are in complete control of everything around them including weather,clean energy and even their own sun.

Dr.Hawkins believes this also,but has also gone on to say that taking for granted that these beings are benevolent would be a mistake.Intellegence is no gurantee and,that they are SO far advanced that they would reguard us much in the same way as we do the common ant.

I had this same idea since I was probably in my late teens. The idea that a life form so much more advanced than us that we can't even recognize that it exists. It's fun to imagine that where we believe things like time are inescapable facts of our existence, there could be other life forms so advanced that time doesn't present any limitations for them.

[Midnite Zephyr]

I am open to many possibilities regarding extraterrestrial life.

"I know they're out there somewhere. Somewhere. Somewhere."

Isn't that a Moody Blues song?

[Anon La Ply]

Originally Posted by tamadrm

Dr Neil De Grass Tyson of the Hayden Planetarium,and Dr.Michio Kaku of NY University and Dr.Stephen Hawkings have interesting theories concerning Extraterrestrial LIfe and space travel.

Not "belief" as such, which would be irrational, just a sense of the probabilities: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...ist-warns.html

[larryace]

Originally Posted by tamadrm

Dr Neil De Grass Tyson of the Hayden Planetarium,and Dr.Michio Kaku of NY University and Dr.Stephen Hawkings have interesting theories concerning Extraterrestrial LIfe and space travel.Dr. Kaku believes that there are what he calls type one civilizations out there,which are just way above us on the evolutionary scale as we are to single cell organisms.He also believes that their laws of physics are different than ours,and faster that light travel is childs play to them.

They have found ways around known physical laws,and are in complete control of everything around them including weather,clean energy and even their own sun.

Dr.Hawkins believes this also,but has also gone on to say that taking for granted that these beings are benevolent would be a mistake.Intellegence is no gurantee and,that they are SO far advanced that they would reguard us much in the same way as we do the common ant.

They might NOT have the same reguard for life as we do,considering the disparity of our two civilations.Just look no further than 60-70 years ago when "Intellegent" men Killed tens of millions of innocent people,just as easily as turning on a light..Using that as a benchmark,how could they reguard us as anything more than savage and dangerous.

I've seen things that I can't explain,and some that were exactly the same as Andy's UFO sighting.

As for letting the public know.There would be a complete break down of social services,and complete panic would soon set in.Just look what happens in black outs once the mob mentality rears it's ugly head.I've been in a couple of riots as a cop,and you wonder how "humans" can act this way.

Something to think about.

Steve B

Good stuff Steve. The way I see it, this stuff is these guys business. That carries a ton of weight with me. Stephen freaking Hawking. I mean, how many minds are greater than his? I think I heard somewhere that humans are destined to be a type one civilization within the next I forget how many years. But it's in the cards. If we don't kill ourselves first, I don't see how we can avoid it, at the rate technology is advancing. I mean, my cell phone talks to me now and shows me where I'm at and tells me how to get where I'm going. That's a big step forward. You could call me gob smacked, (really trying to work in those UK phrases lol) I guess I had no idea it was gonna be this fast. Things are getting exponentially futuristic.

[Anon La Ply]

Guys, it's one thing for aliens to be likely to exist due to weight of numbers, another for them to come to Earth. How is an alien going to come here across a hundred thousand light years?

Not only travel time but they have to be alive in our era. It's taken 13.7 billion years for us humans to turn up. Will we still be around in 10,000 years time (which is almost nothing on a universal time scale)? The aliens could miss us by 1 minute or by 5 billion years.

As Hawking suggests, if aliens are advanced enough to reach us, why do they just keep whizzing by (stopping off for the odd probe or two) and going back home? Why not take over the Earth, like any other colonising nation? If they have the technology to reach here, I imagine their weapons would be scary. Our only hope would be if they were wise and peaceful guru-like aliens, in which case we could nab 'em and dissect them ;-)

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply

Guys, it's one thing for aliens to be likely to exist due to weight of numbers, another for them to come to Earth. How is an alien going to come here across a hundred thousand light years?

Not only travel time but they have to be alive in our era. It's taken 13.7 billion years for us humans to turn up. Will we still be around in 10,000 years time (which is almost nothing on a universal time scale)? The aliens could miss us by 1 minute or by 5 billion years.

As Hawking suggests, if aliens are advanced enough to reach us, why do they just keep whizzing by (stopping off for the odd probe or two) and going back home? Why not take over the Earth, like any other colonising nation? If they have the technology to reach here, I imagine their weapons would be scary. Our only hope would be if they were wise and peaceful guru-like aliens, in which case we could nab 'em and dissect them ;-)

You raise a good point. It's just about distance, but also about time. Time is just as vast as distance and is even more of a barrier. It's very possible that sentient life develops only rarely, separated by hundreds of millions of years. Many planets with life could never develop sentient life - the entire drama and beauty of ecosystems, life and natural creation on a planet, and no sentient life there to ever appreciate it for 12 billion years.

My son did a science experiment. If every second was a year, then the Earth is about 150 years old (American Civil War). Dinosaurs died out about two years ago. Homo sapiens evolved a couple of days ago and our oldest cities are about an hour and a half old. And we're about in the middle of the lifespan of our universe, 20 or so billion years. Entire sentient civilizations may have come and gone already, and have yet to come into existence.

[Mad About Drums]

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply

Our only hope would be if they were wise and peaceful guru-like aliens...

Indeed :)

...

[BacteriumFendYoke]

Did you say Hawking had no imagination? Have you ever read any theoretical cosmology? The sheer imagination required to analyse the data and formulate conjecture and then compose the mathematical proofs is enough imagination for anybody.

Really. If you want to read about imagination and crazy ideas, you need to read more about theoretical physics. Look a Paul Dirac. Crazy, imaginative and original ideas about the data he was seeing that turned out to be (as far as our current models, predictions and evidence demonstrates) true. Quantum Electrodynamics? It's really crazy. But it works. If we didn't have an understanding of Quantum Mechanics and theory, then transistors wouldn't have been invented, let alone modern computers.

EDIT: Looks like the poster I was replying to has deleted his posts. I'll leave this here, devoid of context...

[BacteriumFendYoke]

Originally Posted by The Old Hyde

Have i ever read it....no.I have seen the movie 2001 space oddesy and did i understand it....no but i stand behind my findings which are....nil

2001 has nothing to do with anything other than being a great film.

I edited my original post. Trust me, physicists have imagination. I've met a few. Same with mathematicians - my brother is one.

[inneedofgrace]

I thought for sure we were going to find out this was North Korea finally launching a nuke.

There was a British sci-fi show in the late 60s called UFO - it was one of my favorites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7IF31wDVM

[Bushmanic]

I believe that you saw a UFO Andy,alien or human made,that's hard to say.

What bothers me most about UFO sightings is the fact that 'higher instances' are constantly lying and covering information about this matter.They are always making 'scientific' explanations for what a person or group of people saw flying in the sky.
Call me stupid bit I didn't know there are super-fast weather baloons flying around at 10 times the speed of sound!?
Wait,I get it - The Superman is back!

C'mon...

P.S. To alien visitors:
Show yourselves or beat it!

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Bushmanic

I believe that you saw a UFO Andy,alien or human made,that's hard to say.

What bothers me most about UFO sightings is the fact that 'higher instances' are constantly lying and covering information about this matter.They are always making 'scientific' explanations for what a person or group of people saw flying in the sky.
Call me stupid bit I didn't know there are super-fast weather baloons flying around at 10 times the speed of sound!?
Wait,I get it - The Superman is back!

C'mon...

P.S. To alien visitors:
Show yourselves or beat it!

We have no evidence that life has ever existed anywhere in the universe beyond earth. Some people use that starting point to become very certain that advanced alien civilizations are on our planet and our government is part of a conspiracy to cover it all up. I don't get it.

What we know, we don't believe. What we don't know, we believe.

[BacteriumFendYoke]

The rules of probability give a real probability of there being life on other Worlds other than our own. The sheer size of the Universe and the number of stars similar to our own combined with what appears to be a high incidence of exoplanets around most stars demonstrates a statistical likelihood of life. That even assumes that all life is like the life on Earth (carbon-based, etc; although carbon-based life is likely the most prevalent due to the chemistry of carbon).

Combine that with the latest findings on Mars - evidence of water flowing and organic chemistry in the rock and evidence of water on mars, as well as theories on Europa, I think there's a real chance that not only is there life on Earth but there was life in other parts of the Solar System at one point or another.

Interstellar distances are the real killer though when it comes to UFO arguments. As for intelligent life? Well, I'll quote Monty Python:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

[8Mile]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

What we know, we don't believe. What we don't know, we believe.

This is pretty profound, DMC. I don't know if you authored it or not, but it's quote-worth/internet forum signature-worthy. It speaks to the anti-science contingent that, sadly, seems to be almost a majority in the U.S. these days.

[tamadrm]

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke

2001 has nothing to do with anything other than being a great film.

I edited my original post. Trust me, physicists have imagination. I've met a few. Same with mathematicians - my brother is one.

It's actually more than that.I read an interview with Kubrick years ago,when he had finally gotten tired of people asking what the film was all about.

He spoke about space exploration and type one civiliazations.

He said..."what's the first thing we started doing in the exploration of space,and what do we continue to do to this day"?

We send probes,and we would send robots and autonomous machines to different planets,before sending people.That's what the monoliths were.Machines that could self replicate,sent to educate,contact,evaluate,build and possibley seed life on other worlds.

They were sent to this solar system by a type one civilisation,infinitly more abvanced than ourselves.

Pretty cool stuff.If ET were going to contact us,they would send machines first,which they may or may not,have already done.Baby steps.Think about the panic that would ensue if a space craft landed in the middle of Hyde Park or the White House Lawn.

Steve B

[tamadrm]

Originally Posted by 8Mile

This is pretty profound, DMC. I don't know if you authored it or not, but it's quote-worth/internet forum signature-worthy. It speaks to the anti-science contingent that, sadly, seems to be almost a majority in the U.S. these days.

Science challenges the fundemental status quo.It dispells fiction and myth with truth.

People don't want to hear that something that they believe in dosen't exist, most if not all miracles,have a scientific explaination and man has been here a lot longer than 6-10 thousand years.

They love their cell phones and widescreen TVs,but try to tell them it's science and not something supernatural and miraculous.

Steve B

[Bushmanic]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

We have no evidence that life has ever existed anywhere in the universe beyond earth. Some people use that starting point to become very certain that advanced alien civilizations are on our planet and our government is part of a conspiracy to cover it all up. I don't get it.

A lack of evidence doesn't mean there is/was no other forms of life out there,IMO.
Conspiracy? I don't buy it,if speaking of what's generally accepted as conspiracy.
But I do believe someone of higher public influence (i.e. group of renown scientists) could step out with REAL evidence (not blury photos of something-hovering-somewhere) FOR and AGAINST UFOs/ETs on Earth.

That's all I'm humbly asking for.

Unlikely to happen in our lifetime,though.Daugh!

[BacteriumFendYoke]

Originally Posted by tamadrm

It's actually more than that.I read an interview with Kubrick years ago,when he had finally gotten tired of people asking what the film was all about.

He spoke about space exploration and type one civiliazations.

He said..."what's the first thing we started doing in the exploration of space,and what do we continue to do to this day"?

We send probes,and we would send robots and autonomous machines to different planets,before sending people.That's what the monoliths were.Machines that could self replicate,sent to educate,contact,evaluate,build and possibley seed life on other worlds.

They were sent to this solar system by a type one civilisation,infinitly more abvanced than ourselves.

Pretty cool stuff.If ET were going to contact us,they would send machines first,which they may or may not,have already done.Baby steps.Think about the panic that would ensue if a space craft landed in the middle of Hyde Park or the White House Lawn.

Steve B

Having read all of the books in the '2001' series (there are four), yes - the supposition is that the monoliths are indeed just the machines left from a species that has transcended known space and time. That's what the 'stargate' is in the first film when David Bowman transcends our known time and space to become one of the higher beings.

I used to hugely into the very hard Sci-Fi. I always liked 'Rendezvous With Rama' for the same reasons.

[larryace]

There have been so many famous mass observations, (Mexico City in the 60's) documented abduction stories, (Betty and Barney Hill) and statements of eyewitness accounts made by credible pilots, plus Duncan's rule of probabilities, that I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that there is other intelligent life. Whether it's here or not? I think so, after all, there are mass sightings.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Originally Posted by larryace

There have been so many famous mass observations, (Mexico City in the 60's) documented abduction stories, (Betty and Barney Hill) and statements of eyewitness accounts made by credible pilots, plus Duncan's rule of probabilities, that I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that there is other intelligent life. Whether it's here or not? I think so, after all, there are mass sightings.

Many mass sightings of religious deities too Larry, but that's not enough to convince me on that front either.

[BacteriumFendYoke]

The only evidence that I find compelling when it comes to intelligent extraterrestrial life is the so-called 'Wow!' signal. Essentially, an Earth-based radio telescope detected an enormous, unexplained radio signal from space in 1977. It's never been well-explained or even relocated (which was made trickier by the configuration of the receiver) but wasn't an atmospheric phenomenon and I'm of the view that it's the best evidence we have of extra-terrestrial intelligent life.

That isn't, though, enough to make any kind of statement of verification or anything other than an unexplained incident - albeit one that is consistent with some of the current theories of interstellar communication. Combine a few dozen of those incidents with a regularly-occurring pattern and there might be more to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

[Anon La Ply]

Larry, I don't trust mass sightings. We all have the same sensory equipment and capable of being fooled by our senses in the same way. Funny thing that the first thing people assume is aliens - that should be only considered after checking out possible earthly causes.

It's not only tyranny of distance but tyranny of time. There are just so many places and times that aliens could be living in that are utterly inaccessible to us - gazillions of miles or billions of years.

Martin, I'm also a fan of "What we know, we don't believe. What we don't know, we believe".

Thing is, science becomes counter intuitive at very large and small scales - people tend to find it unbelievable because physical laws that affect things of our size are different at the scale of the very large and very small.

For instance http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-n...um-possibility

Bizarre as the info in the article is, it's less wild than the usual religious belief systems ... but the big man in the sky idea seems familiar to us because we have been told about it since childhood. By comparison, quantum mechanics is alien ...

[larryace]

The Mexico mass sighting was also caught on film. IDK, that's pretty compelling evidence to me. There's no doubt in my mind, but I am not out to debate the point or try to change minds.

[drstrangefunk]

Congrats on your UFO Sighting !!!

i have never seen one, but i know one who has.

[larryace]

What's the consensus on Roswell?

[Anon La Ply]

Originally Posted by larryace

The Mexico mass sighting was also caught on film. IDK, that's pretty compelling evidence to me. There's no doubt in my mind, but I am not out to debate the point or try to change minds.

Lazza, film is just compelling evidence that something we don't know about happened.

Yet we know for sure that the military and spy agencies all over the world are working on secret stuff. We also know for sure that it is their strategic advantage not to reveal any part they may have had with UFO sightings.

We also know that various military and civilian agencies conduct experiments - and that these experiments don't tend to be well publicised. Not like football or political polls.

We also know that intelligent life would need to be capable of time travel to reach us, something we're not sure is physically possible at this stage - let alone possible with time travellers actually arriving in one piece.

But ... there is a terribly small chance that some highly evolved critters from another world could master time travel and come to Earth. It's possible.

However, if I was betting my house I'd put my money on all UFOs being man made or natural phenomena. Pretty boring rationalist outlook, I know :)

[Lunar Satellite Brian]

Heard that tehere was a comet going through the atmosphere last night, that may have been it

[larryace]

I tend to think that the possibilities of other intelligent life being real far outweigh the possibilities that it's just us, no one else, we're it. The numbers are so stacked against that. Technology is moving so fast, we should crack the space/time travel puzzle within, and I'm being generous, 150 years, which is nothing in evolutionary terms. Surely there are life forms that are further along in their evolution than we are, well that's what I go with.

So Grea, how about when we die, what then? Is that it, or do we live on?

[BacteriumFendYoke]

Originally Posted by larryace

I tend to think that the possibilities of other intelligent life being real far outweigh the possibilities that it's just us, no one else, we're it. The numbers are so stacked against that. Technology is moving so fast, we should crack the space/time travel puzzle within, and I'm being generous, 150 years, which is nothing in evolutionary terms. Surely there are life forms that are further along in their evolution than we are, well that's what I go with.

So Grea, how about when we die, what then? Is that it, or do we live on?

Larry. We agree on something based on science! Hooray!

I'll get the cake and party hats. You get the booze and the dancing girls. No rubbish lager.

With regard to alien life forms visiting Earth? I'm not going to rule it out but I still don't agree that mass-sightings are necessarily evidence unless they're backed up with hard data.

[larryace]

Again, Dunc my worthy debate rival, what's your thoughts on Roswell? One one hand, because it was 1947, I tend to give it more weight. Things seemed more honest, more innocent then. It is well documented. I have a hard time believing that aliens smart enough to make it here are as inept at driving as we are lol. But there are stories of materials strewn about that had properties unlike any seen on earth. IDK, there's SO much evidence, that even if only one is true, just one, well that proves it as far as I'm concerned. In 1947, what benefit to the authorities would a fabricated alien crash have? I mean other than a million dollar a year alien trinket business?