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  #1  
Old 02-11-2013, 05:07 AM
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Default Well, the Grammys strike again

I'm going to give the amount of attention to the televised artists/performances that they gave to the artists that deserve it.

I do want to put up some congratulations to Robert Glasper (and Chris Dave), Esperanza Spalding, Chick Corea (even though he's up to Grammy number 500), Paul McCartney, and all other deserving nominees/winners.

Admittedly, I did not watch it this year, but did see all the winners on their website. I watch through parts of the show angrily a lot of years, but no more. I'm very glad some of the artists won and were even recognized, but the whole thing is a huge joke.

Was it ever a respectable show with artists that were not only popular, but deserving? I have to get some insight as to its track record.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

It seems like I end up explaining this every year around this time...

The Grammy nominees and winners are chosen by members of NARAS - producers, writers, artists, musicians, label execs, engineers, etc. The public doesn't vote, the network doesn't have a say, and winning isn't based on sales. And while it is not a popularity contest, a nominee with the support of the most Academy voting members wins, so there's an implied preference by labels and musicians for the artists they work with.

So don't blame the fans, or the producers of the broadcast... blame the people in the industry who do the nominating and voting.

Having been a voting member of NARAS for almost 15 years, I was part of the somewhat incestuous process, but I voted carefully, and without an agenda... except where my boss was nominated. Hey, everyone else was doing it!

Bermuda
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
It seems like I end up explaining this every year around this time...

The Grammy nominees and winners are chosen by members of NARAS - producers, writers, artists, musicians, label execs, engineers, etc. The public doesn't vote, the network doesn't have a say, and winning isn't based on sales. And while it is not a popularity contest, a nominee with the support of the most Academy voting members wins, so there's an implied preference by labels and musicians for the artists they work with.

So don't blame the fans, or the producers of the broadcast... blame the people in the industry who do the nominating and voting.

Having been a voting member of NARAS for almost 15 years, I was part of the somewhat incestuous process, but I voted carefully, and without an agenda... except where my boss was nominated. Hey, everyone else was doing it!

Bermuda
Random questions, are voters and nominees and their guests the only ones allowed to attend the Grammy's?
I have a relative who attends every year. I believe she votes, but she is not a part of the industry to my knowledge.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
It seems like I end up explaining this every year around this time...

The Grammy nominees and winners are chosen by members of NARAS - producers, writers, artists, musicians, label execs, engineers, etc. The public doesn't vote, the network doesn't have a say, and winning isn't based on sales. And while it is not a popularity contest, a nominee with the support of the most Academy voting members wins, so there's an implied preference by labels and musicians for the artists they work with.

So don't blame the fans, or the producers of the broadcast... blame the people in the industry who do the nominating and voting.

Having been a voting member of NARAS for almost 15 years, I was part of the somewhat incestuous process, but I voted carefully, and without an agenda... except where my boss was nominated. Hey, everyone else was doing it!

Bermuda

Sorry, Bermuda. I haven't been on here all that long. I know it's not up to the public. There's a board for all of these awards, but there it seems quite obvious that it's all politics. Honestly, the biggest disappointments seem to be in the popular categories, (Best New Artist, Best Song, Best Album, Best Rap... Best Rock...)

Just really painful to watch or hear about.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by topgun2021 View Post
Random questions, are voters and nominees and their guests the only ones allowed to attend the Grammy's?
I have a relative who attends every year. I believe she votes, but she is not a part of the industry to my knowledge.
Voting members of NARAS have to have certain industry credentials. Anyone who is directly credited on releases from record lables (I think at least 6 tracks) can become a voting member, so it's not difficult to join.

The Grammy 'ceremony' is mostly open to NARAS members, nominees go for free, members pay various levels to attend. The cheap seats are about $250 each. But I believe there are nosebleed seats set aside for the public, probably just a goodwill gesture.

I've never attended, not even when nominated. I just don't like all the hoopla.

Bermuda
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by ?uesto View Post
Just really painful to watch or hear about.
I usually agree, many of the nominees wouldn't have been my choice. But, that's why a ton of members vote, not just a few. The nominees and winners reflect, for better or worse, the choices of their associates in the industry as a whole.

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Old 02-11-2013, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

I didn't see it but heard that Gotye did well - and I think it was well deserved. It was the most original arrangement I've heard in mainstream music for a fair while, which is often formulaic and charmless (at least to these old ears).

Glad the awards are over. Dave Grohl is always candid and straight up, but I got a bit tired of the Grammies' ad with him telling us ...
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I didn't see it but heard that Gotye did well - and I think it was well deserved. It was the most original arrangement I've heard in mainstream music for a fair while, which is often formulaic and charmless (at least to these old ears).
True, except maybe for the intro xylophone part (is it just me or does anyone else hear "Baa Baa Black Sheep" when they hear that part)?
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

Fun. was great! That singer pulled off all of his difficult parts live effortlessly. That record Some Nights has really spun me. Great songwriting, great singing, inventive drum parts. Just a wonderful pop record.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

I heard Frank Ocean had a terrible performance. He's probably much more of a recording artist than a performer. Then when you're performing in front of all the people who would be at the Grammy's it's gotta be even tougher.

I would have liked to see Sting perform. I'll search the YouTube when I get home from classes later. I'm actually looking at the performance list now and wishing I watched some of the other ones too...

Giving Drake best rap album of the year over Nas and The Roots is unforgivable in my eyes though. That should be grounds for impeachment for anyone who voted that way.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

The grammys lost me when Jethro Tull beat ot Metallica. Not a Meatallica fan but honestly Bermuda, did you or anyone else in the world even know Tull put out an album that year? I know it was a crossmix of catagories that year which they since changed but should tull even have been nominated for an obscure album that no one bought versus Metallicas monster album that year?? it seems every year the voters are less in touch with the majority of listeners. why is that??
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by toddmc View Post
True, except maybe for the intro xylophone part (is it just me or does anyone else hear "Baa Baa Black Sheep" when they hear that part)?
LOL!! Now I hear it. This is wonderful news. Thank you!
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

The curse of the Best New Artist.

Could it have commenced in 1976 with Starland Vocal Band and their classic "Afternoon Delight"? Skyrockets in flight?
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
The grammys lost me when Jethro Tull beat ot Metallica. Not a Meatallica fan but honestly Bermuda, did you or anyone else in the world even know Tull put out an album that year? I know it was a crossmix of catagories that year which they since changed but should tull even have been nominated for an obscure album that no one bought versus Metallicas monster album that year?? it seems every year the voters are less in touch with the majority of listeners. why is that??
Haha, funny that people are STILL talking about this. Whoda thunk it? heavy metal = flute?
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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The grammys lost me when Jethro Tull beat ot Metallica. Not a Meatallica fan but honestly Bermuda, did you or anyone else in the world even know Tull put out an album that year?
Nope, and I'd lost my affection for them by then anyway. I think they jumped the flute after War Child. But the process of them being entered in that category to begin with is in the hands of the voting members, not the Grammy organization per se.

Here's the deal. At some point in the fall, members are asked to suggest ("enter") artists, songs, albums, etc in specificed categories. Anyone can enter anything, no matter how incongruous it might seem to that category. Those entries - often hundreds for things like best song & best album - are then given back to the members to vote for the 5 nominees in each category. Those names are sent back to the members and a winner is selected.

I can see how Tull was entered initially, and possibly even voted into the top-5 as an inside joke, but they shouldn't have won. I wasn't a member then, so I couldn't do my part to prevent it. FWIW, I never voted for sport. If I wasn't familiar enough with a particular nominee, I simply didn't vote in that category. Perhaps enough members thought it would be funny if Tull won, so they voted that way... and they did!

Quote:
it seems every year the voters are less in touch with the majority of listeners. why is that??
Because it's not about the listeners, it's about how people in the industry feel about each other. American Music Awards and Billboard Music Awards are about the listeners (the ones who buy the music.) But that's just a matter of sales, not (necessarily) quality, and that's an oft-discussed paradox. Most common example of this is just because McDonald's sells the most burgers, doesn't mean they're the best. You have to then ask why so many people vote that way with their dollars, whether it's burgers... or music.

Basically, on the whole, the listening public and the people in the industry are different. The best any of us can do is like what we like, and leave it at that.

Bermuda
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by larryz View Post
The curse of the Best New Artist.

Could it have commenced in 1976 with Starland Vocal Band and their classic "Afternoon Delight"? Skyrockets in flight?

hahahahaha

my friend Warrens dad played drums on that track
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

This is why I never watch awards shows, whether it be music, acting, reality TV, etc. Too many fans are up in arms about who gets the awards, and the show itself is usually dreadful.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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hahahahaha

my friend Warrens dad played drums on that track
Interesting! Please divulge who this drummer was (if you want). I actually dig the song..still, and have played drums to it, so I'm curious.. Starland was a John Denver find if I recall.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Interesting! Please divulge who this drummer was (if you want). I actually dig the song..still, and have played drums to it, so I'm curious.. Starland was a John Denver find if I recall.

I know his first name is Jim
not sure what his last name is

my friends name is Warren Johnson but Jim is his step dad so they obviously don't have the same last name

Jim told me many years ago that he played on that song

he also told me that Billy Cobham was on the session ....doing what...I have no idea

he could be completely bulls***ing me but I don't think he has any reason to do anything like that

I know he was a session guy in the 1970s
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

Can someone tell me the difference between record of the year and song of the year, with record being only one song and not an album.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Can someone tell me the difference between record of the year and song of the year, with record being only one song and not an album.

Record of the year- Artist, producer, and engineer and/or mixer.
Song of the Year- goes to the composer and lyricist...meaning the song as written not its recording
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by Anthony Amodeo View Post
I know his first name is Jim
not sure what his last name is

my friends name is Warren Johnson but Jim is his step dad so they obviously don't have the same last name

Jim told me many years ago that he played on that song

he also told me that Billy Cobham was on the session ....doing what...I have no idea

he could be completely bulls***ing me but I don't think he has any reason to do anything like that

I know he was a session guy in the 1970s
Thanks for the info Anthony. Cobham was there? Hm. Funny how some drumming legends played on some crappy albums in the 1970s. The life of a session player I guess. I have a mid-70s Van McCoy album (the guy that did The Hustle) that credits list Steve Gadd as drummer :)
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Record of the year- Artist, producer, and engineer and/or mixer.
Song of the Year- goes to the composer and lyricist...meaning the song as written not its recording
cool........................
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Basically, on the whole, the listening public and the people in the industry are different. The best any of us can do is like what we like, and leave it at that.
This is a big issue to me - the friction between musicians' and the general public's taste. That's the reason why we so often play the same old crappy songs in the same old crappy ways and we're largely "not allowed" to play original music - to please the punters.

The public knows precious little of music and IMO their taste is, and has long been, abysmal. Think of the horrid sputum masquerading as "soul food" that's so long churned off the assembly lines for our "listening pleasure".

I first realised that the public were mostly musical morons in 1970 (I think) when Tony Orlando's awful Tie a Yellow Ribbon was #1 and Jud Strunk's execrable Daisy a Day was #2. I couldn't believe it. Sometimes decent songs get through, but for the most part the public continue to be dazzled by shiny baubles and reject gems that are not cut into a neat cube ...
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

Music, being art, is not a competition. Keeping that in mind I am never upset at these award shows.

But its kind of a lark really. I mean if anybody off the street sang like Frank Ocean did, and made a song about Forrest Gump like Frank Ocean did, they would be laughed out of any record execs office. What would Prince say? What would Forrest gump say? lol

I did enjoy the final rap tune, (not a Trav Barker fan, but he sounded good) and off course great seeing Jay Bellerose's vintage drums again on the Levon Helm tribute
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I first realised that the public were mostly musical morons in 1970 (I think) when Tony Orlando's awful Tie a Yellow Ribbon was #1 and Jud Strunk's execrable Daisy a Day was #2. I couldn't believe it. Sometimes decent songs get through, but for the most part the public continue to be dazzled by shiny baubles and reject gems that are not cut into a neat cube ...
Hah, I didn't realize those songs made it all the way to the land down under (oops another Grammy Best New Artist..Men At Work!).

Yellow Ribbon was 1973, Daisy a Day was indeed 1970. Love both of them though. About once or twice a decade though.....
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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About once or twice a decade though.....
Is too many!
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

I didn't see them, and I didn't know Ocean was going to do a Forrest Gump song. I love the movie, but I just looked at the lyrics for the song... sounds like it was awful to start with no matter how badly Frank Ocean choked on stage.

Weird Al's Gump song is pretty hard to beat though. Just saying :)
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/a...-2013021259333

Quote:
End of music announced at Grammys

At the close of the ceremony, host LL Cool J read out a collective statement from record label bosses stating that the music industry was being merged into advertising.

He said: “There is no money in this **** any more, except for sponsorship from fizzy pop companies.

“In the past, singers and instrument-players have followed their own wayward agenda, with values that could be described as ‘artistic’.

“However we now realise that ‘artistic’ values often do not serve the core brand values of fizzy pop makers.

“So we declare the music industry officially over. Henceforth it will be known as ‘soundvertising’.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

Today most of the Beatles songs would not have been recorded, let alone be hits on the radio. We were watching Simon and Garfunkel sing Bridge Over Troubled Water and The Boxer. The whole time I was thinking these guys would never have been stars in today's world of music.

Then again, maybe my parents were thinking that singers like Perry Como would never been stars in my era.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Well, the Grammys strike again

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Originally Posted by Anthony Amodeo View Post
I know his first name is Jim
not sure what his last name is

my friends name is Warren Johnson but Jim is his step dad so they obviously don't have the same last name

Jim told me many years ago that he played on that song

he also told me that Billy Cobham was on the session ....doing what...I have no idea

he could be completely bulls***ing me but I don't think he has any reason to do anything like that

I know he was a session guy in the 1970s

Well I dug up a copy of Starland's debut album and sure enough drumming on Afternoon Delight was credited to Jimmie Young. And Cobham did work on this album. Mystery solved. Until next time....
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