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  #1  
Old 01-23-2013, 06:24 PM
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Default Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Evans just emailed me today about these new heads, looks pretty exciting to me! Thoughts?

http://youtu.be/MRXiiFSoziI
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Learned about it on facebook today. Makes so much sense to me - and the pro feedback looks good! Sometimes it's the small things... that get overlooked. I'm sure other manufacturers will follow.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

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Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Learned about it on facebook today. Makes so much sense to me - and the pro feedback looks good! Sometimes it's the small things... that get overlooked. I'm sure other manufacturers will follow.
I agree, it seems like a subtle change, but I think it actually makes a significant difference. When they spun the head around on the drum... that was pretty cool! I'd definitely like to try some of them out.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Seems like a fine concept, is it a totally new line of heads or does it apply to all?

I guess we'll see when they're released if there's much of a noticeable difference in sound, tuning range or feel.

I'm glad they're still pushing to make their products better though.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

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Originally Posted by Nickropolis View Post
Seems like a fine concept, is it a totally new line of heads or does it apply to all?

I guess we'll see when they're released if there's much of a noticeable difference in sound, tuning range or feel.

I'm glad they're still pushing to make their products better though.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think they're going to use this new hoop process on all their heads. Don't quote me on that though!
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

So this is a new manufacturing process that improves the flatness and uniformity of the head and hoop? Sound like it would apply to all existing lines...

But is this a promise they can make? It seems like so much of a head's quality, in those regards, are outside of their control. Sure, it may leave the factory perfectly flat, and round, but a head/hoop are very pliable and anything can happen in shipping, and stocking.
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  #7  
Old 01-23-2013, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Seems interesting, I'm about to change my tom batters so I'll probably just wait to pick some of the newer heads with the 360 collar. I read that they will apply these new 360 collars to all 6"-16" drum set snare and tom heads, as well as tenor marching heads.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Actually, according to the Evans website:

"All 6-20" polyester film heads include the Level 360 collar."
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Their approach definitely addresses the problem I've been having with Remo heads and my Sonor 3007s, many heads just don't fit on the bearing edge. But calling them "level 360" as if these new drum heads would be the only ones with the ability to sit perfectly even on the bearing edge... that's the way my Evans drum heads have always been, and it's the way every drum head should, and could be, minor inconsistencies in drum sizes is the main problem.

I guess they should start appearing in stores pretty soon? Shall be interesting to see if this is going to be a "revolution" of such proportions as Evans depicts it.

Last edited by Sjogras; 01-24-2013 at 02:39 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

I made the switch to Evans G2 Coated on my toms in 2000, I love them, so easy to tune and sound great, and these are supposed to be easier to tune? Wow!
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  #11  
Old 01-24-2013, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

So, when can I buy them and how will I know I'm getting a Level 360 G+ instead of old stock? I'm due to replace the stock heads on my drums sometime soon.

One thing to note is that the amount of benefit this head gives is likely very dependent on the bearing edge you have. I'd bet it really shines on something like a Ludwig Classic Maple with a single-45 bearing edge.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

youll know by the giant 360 logo on it.

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  #13  
Old 01-25-2013, 02:49 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Honestly, I don't even understand the point of the collar. I tried a Remo snare side ambassador without the collar once, and as soon as it was on, it stretched - and thus, a perfectly fitting collar was born. I feel like a deeper collar might work really well for some drums, but be awful for anything with a edge different from the standard 45. I've never tried a thicker batter head without a collar, but I would love to. Perhaps it would be too thick to stretch, but it sounds like a plausible idea in my head.
Either way, props to Evans for pushing technology forward, even though I don't use any of their products. Good marketing, too. That's always been their forte IMHO :).
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

I've love Evans product quality. I am going to have to try these.
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2013, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by jodgey4 View Post
Honestly, I don't even understand the point of the collar. I tried a Remo snare side ambassador without the collar once, and as soon as it was on, it stretched - and thus, a perfectly fitting collar was born. I feel like a deeper collar might work really well for some drums, but be awful for anything with a edge different from the standard 45. I've never tried a thicker batter head without a collar, but I would love to. Perhaps it would be too thick to stretch, but it sounds like a plausible idea in my head.
Same. I've never had any problems with any drumheads not fitting my drums, certainly not to the extent shown on the DW in that ad. And the head is just going to get stretched to that "perfect" shape when it's tightened onto the drum. I don't see this process making enough of a difference for me to switch from Remo or even care at all- but I guess we'll see when they're released and non-endorsers can offer their opinions.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

It seems to me that the new Evans technology got their drum head hoops to lay flat, lol. A lot of the video is targeted to the players that have difficulties tuning their drums. The paraphrased comment, because I couldn't quit make out a few of his words, "we just want to play drums, we don't want to have to tune them", comment will impress these people. Just like a friend of mine who was through the Evans plant less than a year ago said to me, they're always experimenting with something, which is great, but how many variations of these un-marked experiments are already out there sitting on shelves? The heads that I'm using now, both Evans and Remo fit well on all my kits and can spin freely on a few, especially my Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute. I definitely don't need a head on those drums that fit any looser than what I'm already using.

It sounds like a fix that might help a few, especially if they don't like all that tuning bull****, lol.

I'll try them when they're on the shelves because I'll have no other choice if I want to remain predominately with Evans especially if they use this new process on all their future drum heads. I would very much like to see and hear a more consistent version of their G2 clear and coated heads so that less dead heads make it into my hands. It has already been stated by an Evans rep that this is a "static" problem. There you go a real problem to feast on.

If this newest improvement serves us all positively in some way, then all well and good for their initiative.

Dennis
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2013, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

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Originally Posted by abapicaltaenia View Post
And the head is just going to get stretched to that "perfect" shape when it's tightened onto the drum.
That depends on how imperfect the shape was, and how much you tighten it. Part of Evan's claim is that you get better sound at low tunings, where there'd be less stretch.
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2013, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

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Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
That depends on how imperfect the shape was, and how much you tighten it. Part of Evan's claim is that you get better sound at low tunings, where there'd be less stretch.
I wonder if the ability to tune lower will impact the life of the head at all, not stretching it as much seems like it would extend the life a bit, if you're not a hard hitter.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

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Originally Posted by Nickropolis View Post
I wonder if the ability to tune lower will impact the life of the head at all, not stretching it as much seems like it would extend the life a bit, if you're not a hard hitter.
I find it tends to go the other way that the more tension the longer they last as the impact is spread out over the whole head more efficiently.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

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I find it tends to go the other way that the more tension the longer they last as the impact is spread out over the whole head more efficiently.
Absolutely, I've never seen a dented tight head. I've seen dented Hydraulics, tuned JAW.
A more uniform collar would probably help with lower tunings, but any collar leaves more room for manufacturing error than no collar. If anybody knows of a collarless batter head, let me know. I'm curious to try one.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Wonder how these will play on something like PREMIER'S 3 mm undersized shells?
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2013, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Well, if these help with a lower tuning, I look forward to trying them out. Not that I'll really have a choice. But my kit is due for a re-skinning pretty damn soon, so when these new heads hit the market, I'll pick up a new set and try 'em out and give my impressions to you all.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

I was at the NAMM show in Anaheim, CA this last week.

I went by the Daddario booth and happened to talk with one of the Evans guys about the 360 thing.

Per Evans, 360 is a technology that is used on all Evans heads sized 6 thru 16 inches. But that seems like it was already agreed upon in this thread.

Here's the interesting thing for me. When I asked how Evans would deal with existing stock (dealer RMA's, buy backs, etc.) the rep said they had already started shipping them.

He said they had been shipping them since June.

So if you buy from an Evans dealer that regularly moves through stock, the chance is very good that you have already used a 360 head. If you buy from a dealer who has Evans heads sitting on the shelf for very long periods of time then you probably have not.

I bought an Evans head (coated G2) in the last few weeks and didn't notice any 360 logo on the box. But I'll bet it is the newer model. Sounds good as they usually do. The head fit to my '68 Acrolite like any G2 I've gotten in the past.

Food for thought. :)

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Old 01-28-2013, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

So, if my non 360 heads spin on the shell already, I can't see that it would make much of a difference. But I like the fact that they are thinking about how the head contacts the bearing edge, it is crucial. A real innovation would be a head made to fit each various manufacturers exact shell diameter and particular bearing edge profile. A truly custom head by brand/bearing edge profile and hoop fit. This would likely be uneconomical for Evans, but ideal for us as drummers.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Hey guys! Actually typing this from about 30,000ft. up right now, flying home to New York after the NAMM show. Wish I could have joined the conversation earlier, but NAMM has kept me quite busy! Please forgive that the rest of this post is something that I also posted on another forum, but I wanted to have this information available here as well.

I'd like to clear up some misconceptions about the new Evans Level 360 collar design. Consider this an unofficial FAQ of Level 360 for the time being. I'd be happy to answer more questions as they come up.

Is this a new series of drumheads?
Nope, this is a new design that we're applying to all of our heads going forward.

Which models are affected?
All 6-20" film-based drumheads- batters, resos, snare heads, snare sides, marching tenors, etc. Next up will be bass heads...

Will this cost more?
Nope. We have literally spent the last five years and hundreds of thousands of dollars redesigning our collar shape in order to create the most forgiving, easy to use, best sound line of drumheads available. But it won't cost you a penny more.

Why did Evans/D'Addario bother doing this?
Simply because we want to offer a better user experience with our drumheads. Drummers (or even non-drummers for that matter) should not need to struggle with tuning in order to achieve an acceptable tone. We want our heads to fit all drums the way that heads should have always should have fit. As a result, the heads tune far easier, have greater tuning range, and work better on all ranges of drums, from vintage to modern, low-end to high-end, pristine to out-of-round or damaged.

Sounds like a whole lot of marketing BS- my heads have always fit just fine.
Having personally been involved with the development of this collar and demonstrated it literally 300+ times over the past 4 days at NAMM, I can tell you that it is very real and quite tangible. The issue is that we've never had anything else to compare to. There was never an alternative to the way that heads fit. As a result, we've been taught a series of tricks to get our drums in tune. Have you ever seated a drumhead- over-tensioned it, crushed the collar, done the CPR-move on the center of the head in order to get a new drumhead ready to tune up? That's because the drumhead wasn't actually fitting perfectly on your drum.

Okay, but if my heads don't fit, how are they on my drums right now?
When we say that they don't fit, we're referring to the fact that they don't sit as we believe heads should. They require the techniques mentioned above, in combination with cross-lug tuning, pitch/tension balancing from lug to lug, and more in order to tune up. All of these tricks are meant to compensate for a lack of perfect fit.

I understand the skepticism around this. As soon as you get hands-on with the concept, it becomes clear. Throughout the course of NAMM this past week, I had many a skeptic come up and ask me about Level 360. I can say with great confidence that everyone walked away having seen/felt/heard the difference and believed that this is something truly revolutionary for drumheads, and drumming in general.

I will happily answer any questions about Level 360; be it the design concept, the effects, what the R&D process was like, how we made the change, etc. It has really been a privilege for me to be involved with this project over the years and we're all very excited to finally be rolling it out now.

Cheers!

Ben O'Brien Smith
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  #26  
Old 01-29-2013, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Hey Ben,

Thanks for the info. Are these in stores now? Or are they just in certain areas at present? Will they have a different inking distinguishing the new design from the old?
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  #27  
Old 01-29-2013, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

I got a 1st hand demo from Ben at NAMM, and I was pointed to go get a demo from Ben by someone I've known in the industry for 20 years ( who, oddly enough, used to work for Remo).

Seeing them first hand was great. They are as they say they are.

You can thrown them on, and get a decent tone without much effort.

At one point, Ben tuned up the drum, then took off one of the tension rods, and the head retained it's tone.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:07 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

I think this is a really good idea and long overdue. My toms' bearing edges are cut at 45s all the way out to the edge - there is no countercut. It's not at all uncommon to lay new heads on and see that they are making contact with the bearing edge on the collar of the head instead of the flat part. How can that *not* adversely affect tuning? I don't see this as gimmicky or just some kind of shortcut to easy tuning - this is the way everyone's heads should've been made all along.
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  #29  
Old 01-29-2013, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Here's Ben:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygxTS2KZ8-I
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Since the collar is steeper, what if one had an extremely oversized drum? In such a case, the drumhead wouldn't even fit on the drum at all. Since the approach with these heads is that they should fit EVERY drum, will undersized shells suffer since the collar of the head would be too wide?

I still don't see any difference to "ordinary" drum heads, since solving the level 360 concept seems to be making a drumhead big enough to lay evenly on the drum. And as far as I know, Aquarian already has oversized drum heads for vintage drums. What exactly will the steep collar do for the sound?

You have to be more specific in regards to explanaining exactly what these drum heads do.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Wow.. I'm really looking forward to getting a new reso and batter for my 13" tom. It's been a huge pain in the butt to tune since the beginning since all the heads I've tried haven't sat flat on the bearing edge. I'm really hoping this makes a difference for me.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjogras View Post
I still don't see any difference to "ordinary" drum heads, since solving the level 360 concept seems to be making a drumhead big enough to lay evenly on the drum. And as far as I know, Aquarian already has oversized drum heads for vintage drums. What exactly will the steep collar do for the sound?

You have to be more specific in regards to explanaining exactly what these drum heads do.
The idea is that the entirety of the collar should be on the hoop side of the bearing edge. If any part of that formed collar area is inside the bearing edge, which is the playing/resonant surface, you will need to tension the head tighter to overcome that formed shape to pull it tight, which will be at some tension higher than if it was only the flat part of the head on the bearing edge. But also, just because you've overcome the form shape doesn't mean that its own tension isn't still there subtracting from the resonance.

Making the collar as vertical as possible increases the chance that no part of it will be seating on the bearing edge allowing for lower tunings with minimal or no head distortion.

Again, all heads should be designed so that the formed collar stays off of the bearing edge. Different drum companies use different diameter shells with varying placements of bearing edges on the shell, so head manufacturers can't (or should not be lazy) about their collar formations. They should spec to worst-case edge diameters.
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  #33  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
Hey guys! Actually typing this from about 30,000ft. up right now, flying home to New York after the NAMM show. Wish I could have joined the conversation earlier, but NAMM has kept me quite busy! Please forgive that the rest of this post is something that I also posted on another forum, but I wanted to have this information available here as well.

I'd like to clear up some misconceptions about the new Evans Level 360 collar design. Consider this an unofficial FAQ of Level 360 for the time being. I'd be happy to answer more questions as they come up.

Is this a new series of drumheads?
Nope, this is a new design that we're applying to all of our heads going forward.

Which models are affected?
All 6-20" film-based drumheads- batters, resos, snare heads, snare sides, marching tenors, etc. Next up will be bass heads...

Will this cost more?
Nope. We have literally spent the last five years and hundreds of thousands of dollars redesigning our collar shape in order to create the most forgiving, easy to use, best sound line of drumheads available. But it won't cost you a penny more.

Why did Evans/D'Addario bother doing this?
Simply because we want to offer a better user experience with our drumheads. Drummers (or even non-drummers for that matter) should not need to struggle with tuning in order to achieve an acceptable tone. We want our heads to fit all drums the way that heads should have always should have fit. As a result, the heads tune far easier, have greater tuning range, and work better on all ranges of drums, from vintage to modern, low-end to high-end, pristine to out-of-round or damaged.

Sounds like a whole lot of marketing BS- my heads have always fit just fine.
Having personally been involved with the development of this collar and demonstrated it literally 300+ times over the past 4 days at NAMM, I can tell you that it is very real and quite tangible. The issue is that we've never had anything else to compare to. There was never an alternative to the way that heads fit. As a result, we've been taught a series of tricks to get our drums in tune. Have you ever seated a drumhead- over-tensioned it, crushed the collar, done the CPR-move on the center of the head in order to get a new drumhead ready to tune up? That's because the drumhead wasn't actually fitting perfectly on your drum.

Okay, but if my heads don't fit, how are they on my drums right now?
When we say that they don't fit, we're referring to the fact that they don't sit as we believe heads should. They require the techniques mentioned above, in combination with cross-lug tuning, pitch/tension balancing from lug to lug, and more in order to tune up. All of these tricks are meant to compensate for a lack of perfect fit.

I understand the skepticism around this. As soon as you get hands-on with the concept, it becomes clear. Throughout the course of NAMM this past week, I had many a skeptic come up and ask me about Level 360. I can say with great confidence that everyone walked away having seen/felt/heard the difference and believed that this is something truly revolutionary for drumheads, and drumming in general.

I will happily answer any questions about Level 360; be it the design concept, the effects, what the R&D process was like, how we made the change, etc. It has really been a privilege for me to be involved with this project over the years and we're all very excited to finally be rolling it out now.

Cheers!

Ben O'Brien Smith
Percussion Product Specialist
Evans | ProMark | PureSound
Thank you for chiming in. I'm very interested in this new feature.

I do wonder though, how the new design differs from the collar on Aquarian heads and their
"Sound Curve" design as they call it. If you are familar with it...

I've used Aquairians on my Ludwig Classic Maples for a few years and have never had the issue of a head not sitting completely on the bearing edge. At least not that I can remember.

I wonder if switching to Evans would make tuning that much easier. That would be nice. I've wanted to try the J1s for a while now.

Which brings me to my second question. What Evans heads best simulate calfskin, like the Aquarian Modern Vintage heads that I currently use?
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  #34  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

So, am I clear in the thought that you DO NOT need to seat these heads?

The G2's I have on my toms now have all been seated within an inch of their lives and they never go out of tune on me.
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  #35  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:57 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Saw those myself at NAMM and was impressed. I came away thinking not so much that the head will necessarily sound better, but that it will sound like it's supposed to faster and easier than before. I want my heads to sound great right from the start, and that's a real benefit whether we change heads frequently or not.

Bermuda
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  #36  
Old 01-30-2013, 03:33 PM
EvansSpecialist EvansSpecialist is offline
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Hey Ben,

Thanks for the info. Are these in stores now? Or are they just in certain areas at present? Will they have a different inking distinguishing the new design from the old?
Hi Larryace,

We've been making most of our heads with the new Level 360 Technology for the past three months without the addition of the new logo, so a lot of what is out in stores features the new collar. Everything we're making now, and the majority of what we're shipping to stores, has the new Level 360 logo. You should begin to see these in stores (particularly local music shops) within the next couple of weeks, depending on the frequency at which they place orders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I got a 1st hand demo from Ben at NAMM, and I was pointed to go get a demo from Ben by someone I've known in the industry for 20 years ( who, oddly enough, used to work for Remo).

Seeing them first hand was great. They are as they say they are.

You can thrown them on, and get a decent tone without much effort.

At one point, Ben tuned up the drum, then took off one of the tension rods, and the head retained it's tone.
Thanks for stopping by! You should have seen the look on my face the first time I demo'd this for myself a couple years back. I couldn't believe the capabilities of the collar. I've never been one for marketing B.S. so it's really important to me that this stuff be tangible and 100% real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
So, am I clear in the thought that you DO NOT need to seat these heads?
Certainly nowhere near the degree of seating that was necesary in the past. The whole point behind seating a drumhead is to break down the collar in order to mold to the bearing edge. With the Level 360 collar, the horizontal plane of the head comes in direct contact with the bearing edge from the moment you put the head on the shell.
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  #37  
Old 02-01-2013, 09:04 PM
Bruce M. Thomson's Avatar
Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSnyder View Post
I'm not entirely sure, but I think they're going to use this new hoop process on all their heads. Don't quote me on that though!
Yes, all of their new heads will use this technology. It is very logical, kind of thing that makes you wonder why they never came up with the idea earlier.
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  #38  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:09 PM
PeteN PeteN is offline
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Is there any way to identify if it's the new 360 head without the new logo on it?

thanks
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  #39  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:11 PM
vxla vxla is offline
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

I got a 14" J1 and it's a 360 head. Really, it's a small bump and not much of a noticeable difference. Don't expect flowers and candy, it's a drum head.
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  #40  
Old 02-02-2013, 02:43 PM
PeteN PeteN is offline
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Default Re: Evans new Level 360 drum heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by vxla View Post
I got a 14" J1 and it's a 360 head. Really, it's a small bump and not much of a noticeable difference. Don't expect flowers and candy, it's a drum head.
Yeah maybe so but if I can get new heads to sound better sooner then it's flowers and candy to me lol.

Where you from in chi-town? I'm from Jefferson park area.
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