...for the jazz cats ...

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by 8Mile

Some great stuff posted here over the past few days. That clip of Roy's grandson is amazing.

Speaking of Roy, I've come to the conclusion that this is a desert island disc. Just amazing music and Roy's playing is inspirational.

oh my god!!!!!!

I just spun this last night......couldn't stop pulling the needle back on the opening track

I think we are connected at the brain waves

[Numberless]

Art Blakey's latin-ish groove in Hank Mobley's Split Feelin's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC3FHpSbKC4

[8Mile]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

oh my god!!!!!!

I just spun this last night......couldn't stop pulling the needle back on the opening track

I think we are connected at the brain waves

Just saw this. Awesome, man. I know what you mean.

[8Mile]

Originally Posted by Numberless

Art Blakey's latin-ish groove in Hank Mobley's Split Feelin's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC3FHpSbKC4

Nice, Num! Great tune, love this album so much. Probably my favorite Mobley, which is saying something.

[aaajn]

Thanks for this ditty. I subscribed to Blue Note records on the iPad. Its an App that costs 2 or 3 bucks a month. There was an Art Blakey tune on it the other day. He was really an amazing monster. Sometimes when I listen to him, I hear classic arena rock drum soloists. Dont go crazy on me but his power reminds me of Bonham. And he did this all in a Jazz arena. Art Blakey is one of my favorites.

[Anon La Ply]

Jean-Luc Ponty, Stanley Clarke and Tony Williams. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5iqizpuZA

Jean-Luc Ponty, Stanley Clarke and Al diMeola. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw_5gIY8naE

Change just one member ...

[Anon La Ply]

Bill Stewart - a joy to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLLTZDDOlVI

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

I'd like to pass this along for your listening pleasure

fantastic record ....fantastic band

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Aa9T-rpbg

I just listened to this one last night.

This thread is costing me too much money.

I apologize if this is a duplicate. Ignore if so...

TW Quintet in NYC 1989

Part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkJoTY0GE8M

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5FwurVBEeE

[Roosto]

Mickey Roker. Doesn't he look great?

[Elvis]

Don't remember if I mentioned this before, but been diggin' into this for the past couple of weeks. Here and there, when time allows...

http://www.skidmore.edu/~flip/Site/H...roduction.html

[spleen]

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply

Bill Stewart - a joy to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLLTZDDOlVI

I loves me some Bill!

Here he is gettin' it done with John Scofield and Steve Swallow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Qk9wfmhrrqQ

[Elvis]

hey guys, check it out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrbXzD5BpGA

...that's real calfskin he's playin', too!

[kafkapenguin]

Originally Posted by 8Mile

Some great stuff posted here over the past few days. That clip of Roy's grandson is amazing.

Speaking of Roy, I've come to the conclusion that this is a desert island disc. Just amazing music and Roy's playing is inspirational.

I love all these cats but this album is new to me.. Just got it, and a big thanks for the turn on 8Mile!!

cheers!

[dmacc]

If you like Hard Bop - this is killer. Been listening to this one over and over lately. Philly Joe on fire.

[Elvis]

Say, speakin' of hard bop, here's some with an afro-cuban twist to it...


Killer album and Herlin Riley plays like a man possessed.

...also, an album I owned many years ago that I need to get back....



Recorded live at Birdland in '63, Wayne Shorter, Curtis Fuller and Cedar Walton round out the group.



Elvis

[aaajn]

Question of great Guru's, I have heard the term Bop, Hard Bop and Bee Bop. What's the difference?

Thank you,

J

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by aaajn

Question of great Guru's, I have heard the term Bop, Hard Bop and Bee Bop. What's the difference?

Thank you,

J

Bop is usually just short for Be bop

which is basically a style of music that guys like Bird, Diz, Bud Powell, and Monk started playing in NYC in the 1940s.
it is a style that came form the streets, and poverty, and raw emotion.

it has been said that they were trying to create something that the older players would not understand , and would not be able to follow the changes of, so they would not want to get on the band stand and blow.

as Jackie McLean tells it...these guys were basing what they were doing off of the playing of Lester Young , who played be bop style solos and phrases before the inception of be bop.
as did Louis Armstrong ...as much as he hated be bop he had a hand in creating it .

the drumming changed quite a bit as well as far as comping.
no longer was 4 on the floor from the swing era necessary and the bass drum would now comp thanks to guys like Kenny Clarke...... and a lot more of a triplet feel was introduced .
and the ride cymbal pattern started to break up quite a bit more than it had in the past

Hard Bop is something that followed be bop in the 1950s and early '60s

guys like Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers , the Coltrane Quartet, and Miles famous group with Tony Williams, Herbie Hancock,and Ron Carter .....were playing more modal stuff than the chord changes of early bebop and playing it a little harder and louder

[JohnW]

Originally Posted by 8Mile

One of my all-time favorites. Had it once on vinyl and twice on CD. Each time I lent a copy out, it never came back. That should tell you something!

-John

[con struct]

Originally Posted by Anthony Amodeo

Bop is usually just short for Be bop

which is basically a style of music that guys like Bird, Diz, Bud Powell, and Monk started playing in NYC in the 1940s.
it is a style that came form the streets, and poverty, and raw emotion.

it has been said that they were trying to create something that the older players would not understand , and would not be able to follow the changes of, so they would not want to get on the band stand and blow.

as Jackie McLean tells it...these guys were basing what they were doing off of the playing of Lester Young , who played be bop style solos and phrases before the inception of be bop.
as did Louis Armstrong ...as much as he hated be bop he had a hand in creating it .

the drumming changed quite a bit as well as far as comping.
no longer was 4 on the floor from the swing era necessary and the bass drum would now comp thanks to guys like Kenny Clarke...... and a lot more of a triplet feel was introduced .
and the ride cymbal pattern started to break up quite a bit more than it had in the past

Hard Bop is something that followed be bop in the 1950s and early '60s

guys like Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers , the Coltrane Quartet, and Miles famous group with Tony Williams, Herbie Hancock,and Ron Carter .....were playing more modal stuff than the chord changes of early bebop and playing it a little harder and louder

Bebop is "a style that came from the streets, and poverty, and raw emotion"?

"No longer was the 4 on the floor tom" etc?

Hard bop is "more modal"?

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by con struct

Bebop is "a style that came from the streets, and poverty, and raw emotion"?

"No longer was the 4 on the floor tom" etc?

Hard bop is "more modal"?

asking questions J?

why would you mis quote me saying that I said hard bop is more modal?.....as if I said thats what hard bop is



....and did I ever mention a floor tom?

[groove1]

catching up....over the past couple of weeks I've managed to read every post on this thread and listen to every link posted. While much of it is already in my album collection it is always
great to hear it again! I had forgotten all about the Jackie McClean album which I used to have and dearly loved....it got lost along the way.

My favorite link of all was from 8Mile....I'll put it here again for those interested....robots talking about cymbals....cracked me up!!!! (I ended up looking at a lot of other jazz robot
youtubes because of that link....Thanks!)

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nilzB...ature=youtu.be


Anyways...a great thread and wish I could catch each of you playing somewhere sometime.

[con struct]

Originally Posted by Anthony Amodeo

asking questions J?

why would you mis quote me saying that I said hard bop is more modal?.....as if I said thats what hard bop is



....and did I ever mention a floor tom?

My mistake on the floor tom; I misread "floor from."

But: "guys like Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers.....were playing more modal stuff than the chord changes of early bebop and playing it a little harder and louder." (And the Coltrane quartet played hard bop?)

I don't understand that, and I don't understand the part about bebop being a style that came form the streets, and poverty, and raw emotion.

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by con struct

My mistake on the floor tom.

"guys like Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers.....were playing more modal stuff than the chord changes of early bebop and playing it a little harder and louder."

I don't understand that.

thats because you are mis quoting it

I should type more clearly I guess

I was saying that Blakeys jazz messengers were introducing hard bop......new thought.....the Coltrane quartet and Miles band were taking a more modal approach to what Blakey and others were doing

more clear now?

actually Kind Of Blue brought modal main stream ....which was a whole different Miles outfit than I mentioned

now that I read it back it was confusing

[Elvis]

"the streets"?...Bop was born out of human curiosity, plain and simple.
Anyone who's played an instrument for any amount of time has played with themes and generally "noodled", discovering new sounds from their instrument.
Bop just took that to an art form and eventually, a varient of the Jazz idiom.
Hard Bop simply describes attitude.
In the 90's we would've called it Aggressive Bop.
Watch how Blakey plays and you'll see what Hard Bop is all about.



Elvis

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by Elvis

"the streets"?...Bop was born out of human curiosity, plain and simple.
Anyone who's played an instrument for any amount of time has played with themes and generally "noodled", discovering new sounds from their instrument.
Bop just took that to an art form and eventually, a varient of the Jazz idiom.
Hard Bop simply describes attitude.
In the 90's we would've called it Aggressive Bop.
Watch how Blakey plays and you'll see what Hard Bop is all about.



Elvis

yes the streets

it is a NYC thing, a harlem thing , a social commentary

and I don't think it had anything to do with curiosity...what were they curious about?

....it was expression, inspiration, and a changing of the guard and just happened to be spear headed by some of the most talented musicians in the history of music itself.
a style created by guys playing after hours in smokey rooms for little to zero money

these cats created bebop to leave behind the swing days of old and play something the old timers would not understand

they weren't curious....they were hungry

much like hip hop of the late 70s and 80s ...it was built on improvisation, collaboration , and the soul of the streets of NY city

[Elvis]

Re: Curiosity

What can I create using this theme?
What can I create dissecting these chord structures?
How can I interject an inverted Major 7th diminishing chord into the middle of a swung version of "Happy Birthday"...and actually make it work?!

Its like a conversation I once had with the manager of a music store we worked at.
Rock'n Roll is about a moment in time.
Jazz is about the story behind that moment in time.

Themes, structures, curiosity. That is where bop came from.


Elvis

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Re: Curiosity

What can I create using this theme?
What can I create dissecting these chord structures?
How can I interject an inverted Major 7th diminishing chord into the middle of a swung version of "Happy Birthday"...and actually make it work?!

Its like a conversation I once had with the manager of a music store we worked at.
Rock'n Roll is about a moment in time.
Jazz is about the story behind that moment in time.

Themes, structures, curiosity. That is where bop came from.


Elvis

I see what you mean

I was thinking from a completely different angle

and agreed ....although I'm not sure I would call it curiosity ...more just inspired to expand on things guys like Lester Young and Louis Arnstrong before them had played

[?uesto]

Again, I can't express my appreciation for this thread enough. It's turned me on to some GREAT stuff!

I just made it into a Jazz Combo at school. Since the semester just started, we're picking tunes that we want to play, and we've had some ideas so far for non-jazz songs (Greasy G by Joshua Redman, Sticks and Stones by Ray Charles) but I think the professor is going to want a few swing songs.

This is where I need your guys help. I'm not a great jazz player. I can swing and I can play hits in a big band context, but I don't have great independence (can't really comp melodies as a result), I really can't play in 3/4 or 5/4, etc.

I just need some song suggestions that I can bring in next week that would be doable. Feel free to mention anything that isn't an overdone standard that could be easy enough to play on my part, and would work for the [somewhat odd] instrumentation.

We've got bass, two guitars, keys, and drums.

[Swiss Matthias]

Yeah this is certainly one of the finer threads on drummerworld!

[Elvis]

Anthony,

A little while after I made my last post, it also dawned on me that we were actually saying the same thing, but in such different terms that neither of us realised it.
...guess the joke's on us! =)
I think what we can take away from our conversation, and really, this whole thread, is that Jazz is still accepted and respected by a sizeable section of the population, thus ensuring its survival for at least another generation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

?uesto,

A classic bop tune that's easy to play is Moanin'. you can find it on an album called "Bags Groove".
Another one that is a little more R&B influenced is Lee Morgan's classic "The Sidewinder".
A lot of early bebop isn't too complicated, as it still shows heavy roots in dance music. Plus a lot of seems more "friendly" and less "introverted". This may make it more palatable for the general public.
Read up on the discography's of Dizzy Gillespie, Denzil Best and Tadd Dameron.
These guys were pioneers of the bebop movement.



Elvis

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Anthony,

A little while after I made my last post, it also dawned on me that we were actually saying the same thing, but in such different terms that neither of us realised it.
...guess the joke's on us! =)
I think what we can take away from our conversation, and really, this whole thread, is that Jazz is still accepted and respected by a sizeable section of the population, thus ensuring its survival for at least another generation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Elvis

Amen to that brother

in the spirit of those fine words I give you a side off one of my favorite records of all time

the all star cast of.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCA3988H5g

[Elvis]

Wow. Eldridge rolled in on that one sounding just like Sweets.
Very nice and thanks for the heads up.
Defiinately going on the "to get" list.

...and speaking of which, I'll give you back one of the "sweetest" versions of this song that I know of...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGEEoideEJk



Elvis

[kafkapenguin]

Originally Posted by Anthony Amodeo

Amen to that brother

in the spirit of those fine words I give you a side off one of my favorite records of all time

the all star cast of.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCA3988H5g

Whoa!..........................

[kafkapenguin]

I've been listening to this a lot lately: David Gilmore Numerology "Live at Jazz Standard" Not for everyone but the more I listen the more I dig it! Did I mention Christian McBride and Jeff Tain Watts"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-tlZCNiIqc

[kafkapenguin]

And regarding the definition of "Bop"...I feel this is a very hard musical genre to describe in words...try to explain it to a non-Jazz friend without using musical examples so that he understands the concept....a bit like herding cats into a bag... ;) anyway here's the Meriam Webster on line definition...hope it helps a bit....(seems pretty open to interpretation to me) ;)

Definition of BOP
1
: jazz characterized by harmonic complexity, convoluted melodic lines, and constant shifting of accent and often played at very rapid tempos

cheers!

russell

[Elvis]

LOL!
Merriam-Webster actually called the melody lines "convoluted".
That's funny! =))


Elvis

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Anthony Amodeo

Amen to that brother

in the spirit of those fine words I give you a side off one of my favorite records of all time

the all star cast of.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCA3988H5g

A PSA for the fans of Jazz

Just researching this album on Amazon and noticed that there are TWO versions for sale.
One is a 1991 release.
The other is the 2005 release.

The song heard on the link is from the 2005 release.

...so use caution when ordering, if that song is what you're after.


Elvis

[Anthony Amodeo]

ok gents ....quick question

so I'm glancing over this lead sheet for an upcoming gig and I noticed that the form seems to change at some point.


the head is dead on with the lead sheet.....but through the solos it seems to change up ....seems the 3/4 measures start to come much later in the form under the solos

are you guys hearing the same ?....or am I way over tired right now ?

are they just not doing the 3/4 in one of the choruses?......because they are still 32 bar choruses but the placement of the 3/4 is escaping me through the solos.....seems to pop up almost randomly

for some reason I am having trouble keeping the form as I sit here skimming it over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLKVkvz0sBw

[8Mile]

Ants,

I've always interpreted that during the solo section, they play the B section 2 additional times. I don't think it's random, but it's definitely different than during the head.

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by 8Mile

Ants,

I've always interpreted that during the solo section, they play the B section 2 additional times. I don't think it's random, but it's definitely different than during the head.

I'm sure when we play it for the gig the band will just play the head form....at least I hope...hahaha.....not too worried about it


yeah that is totally what they are doing....riding the B 2 extra times .....thanks 8

but it seems that in Miles first chorus they don't hit the 3/4.......am I losing my mind ?


I found this great live version

very interesting what they do to the form....I love it

it seems in this version under solos they play 6 measures of 3/4 and just 2 measures of 4/4 in the B .

I for the life of me cannot make sense of the form change and when the B hits under the solos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o40smfOyIso