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  #1  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:13 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I have been using Vic Firth sticks for a while now and i can't see myself buying another pair. They last me 2-3 weeks before they get a little split just past the tip that ends up splitting the stick in half. I have my cymbals on a slight angle, a don't hit ridiculously hard and my toms are nice and close together. I don't think it is my technique breaking them either. I had a very old pair of Zildjian sticks given to me and they lasted over a year and only recently broke from just simply wearing away. Over here in Aus a pair of Vic Firth are $20 so breaking them every 2-3 weeks is not cool. I want some more durable sticks. I'm about to give Vater a go. Any other suggestions? Here is a link so you can see my technique, excuse the music in the cover it's not my taste i just did it for fun and to hopefully get some more views. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpbgrUnl9fk
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  #2  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Say man, I live in Aus too and sticks ain't cheap. I use Vic's and don't have too many problems generally. I usually wear 'em out before I break 'em.
Now I'll probably get told off by someone, but I've been conditioning myself to use the butt ends of the stick for hitting in my left (snare) hand. I just take a mostly worn stick, sand it a bit, notch a groove where the fulcrum is and smack! Big sound, monstrous rim shots. 2 for 1 sticks too.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:46 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

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Originally Posted by sonnygrabber View Post
Say man, I live in Aus too and sticks ain't cheap. I use Vic's and don't have too many problems generally. I usually wear 'em out before I break 'em.
Now I'll probably get told off by someone, but I've been conditioning myself to use the butt ends of the stick for hitting in my left (snare) hand. I just take a mostly worn stick, sand it a bit, notch a groove where the fulcrum is and smack! Big sound, monstrous rim shots. 2 for 1 sticks too.
I can't see how that would be a bad idea, marching band sticks don't even have a tip. The thing i wouldn't like about that is it would make the stick feel like i could damage something more easily. If i could make nylon tips i'd give it a go making my own sticks. I have access to very old quality timber and i can use a lathe alright.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

It is a heavier feel and it sure strengthens the wrist.
I'm not much of a double stroke player anyway, and if the song calls for lighter stuff I just flip it for that song, (i.e. 16ths on the hats or double strokes).
I reckon hickory is the go to wood, for its medium hardness. I got told off by my teacher for buying oak sticks years ago, said it's too hard and could stuff my wrists long term.
As far as doing damage, well, I keep my snare and toms pretty flat, and the butt stick is in my weaker hand.
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  #5  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:25 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

when you say "stuff my wrist" what do you mean? and i have my toms and snare the same way. I find the longer i play the more i flatten them out. Go back to when i first started playing i had them all angled Lars Ulrich style. I couldn't play if i tried that now and it ruins your heads.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I think he was referring to the unforgivingness of the harder timber. If I remember correctly 'carpal tunnel' was bandied about a bit. Either that or he thought that the hard wood coupled with my mediocre technique was gonna land me in hospital faster than the hickory.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:48 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

haha, I know if you really tighten up your snare it can bruise your knuckles so maybe he was thinking it could do a similar thing?
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:52 AM
Winegums Winegums is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I use Vicfirth Metal-N sticks. they're longer than the extreme and look like giant matchsticks. I like the nylon tips since they can't split and scratch the coatings on my snare and toms. Two pairs will last me a month playing an hour to 2 a day average. They're heavy sticks and the extra length will make your hi hats chew into them pretty fast. I don't think durability should be the main concern when choosing sticks. I think whatever you find most comfortable should be the stick you use since it will help you play your best.
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  #9  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Yeah, I try not to hit the snare with my knuckles...bloody thing's hard.
I guess over the years learning to relax and not squeeze the sticks like you're holding a snake helps. Maybe i have graduated to the ability to use oak sticks, but those lessons early on must have scarred my psyche.
Anyway, you might try out the butt end stick thing. I've noticed over the last 6 months or so of doing it my stick breakage has been non-existent. Sure the hats and other cymbals chew on the right hand stick, but what ya gonna do?
Another thing is for some reason I have a bunch of sticks I have had no use for, (i.e. wood tips and smaller sizes). Don't know where i got 'em, but they're the butt now.
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  #10  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:23 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I will try using the other end of the stick until i get some more. I think the main thing killing my stick are my hi hats. They are warped or something so the bottom hat always hangs out a bit to give a lip for the sticks to hit, kinda disappointing when they cost $350. My favorite two sticks which seem to have been the most durable are 7AN for fast stuff on the hats and extreme 5AN for regular playing.
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  #11  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I changed to Silver Fox 1A's about 18 months ago & reduced my breakages by at least 50%. Prior to that, I used VF.
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  #12  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I changed to Silver Fox 1A's about 18 months ago & reduced my breakages by at least 50%. Prior to that, I used VF.
I'd try them but i don't know where i could get them in Australia. I haven't seen them in shops or on eBay unless i want to order them from the UK :/
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  #13  
Old 01-15-2013, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Yep, hats chew sticks. I don't reckon it's the hats' fault they stick out, but rather the stand. Mine did it to until I had a good look at it. See, i like a little tilt, which can lead to the hats being a bit off flush. So I turned the stand holder thingy the other way, (180 degrees). Now it overlaps the other way, but then I'm a hat crasher....love havin' 'em loose and smash those things...cause i can choke it handless.
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  #14  
Old 01-15-2013, 01:50 PM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

My stand is a Gibraltar 6607 and hats are Zildjian New beat 14" What concerns me is that they used to sit flat on a table, now the bottom one doesn't. I don't hit them hard. I've tried turning the tilt completely off and they still do it. Whole reason i replaced the original stand that came with my kit. That and the fact it was so cheap it weighed 5 grams. The bottom hat hangs out about 5mm. It's like the hole in it is oversized but they're brand new hats.
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  #15  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Maybe you can try this. The next time you go to pick a pair of sticks, first look at the body of the stick and check the different forms of the wood, figure how it was manufactured, if there's any imperfection. Those irregular forms will start to separate from the stick in no time, sometimes soon, sometimes later but definitely they are the starting point. So check that out and choose the stick with less striations. Also you may try a B (5B, 2B?) and review your Moeller, remember you don't attack the cymbal, you just hit it and go back, you don't want to go beyond that. Good Luck!
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

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Originally Posted by SolDrumcovers View Post
I'd try them but i don't know where i could get them in Australia. I haven't seen them in shops or on eBay unless i want to order them from the UK :/
They're a US brand, so I guess you should get shipping without issues. Hit up Kenny Howard on this forum. He's an endorsing artist for Silver Fox. He may be able to help you. Kenny turned me on to these.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I use Pro-Mark Japanese white oak drumsticks with Pro-Mark stick rapp tape. Not real found of the coating on the stick, which is why I use the grip tape but they last forever. By far the longest lasting stick I've used.
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  #18  
Old 01-16-2013, 11:15 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I bought 2 pairs of Vater 5b nylon tip sticks Today. I will eventually try out most the brands and chose the ones that work best for me. I noticed when buying Vater sticks that the first pack i picked up had sticks made out of good straight bits of timber. Normally i go through 5 or so packs of Vic Firths to find the good ones.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I have always had good luck with the Vic's, more durable than anything else I have used. BTW if I am not mistaken the Zildjian's are made by Vic as well.
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I love pro mark 2b sticks, real durable but they have a bunch of feel, at least to me. The oak sticks from pro mark are near indestructible, I personally don't have any issues with my oak sticks, I love them, no harshness on my hands at all.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Ahead stick by Easton. They have an aluminium center shaft and a hard plastic sleeve on the outside. the plastic dents a little but wont crack and the stick itself wont break. there pricy around 30 buck a pair but they last. the sleeve is replaceable as well as the tip.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I want to stay using wood stick as they are the only ones I've found that i like. I think the old Zildjian sticks i have may be oak, Well one stick was Zildjian, the other was a something sighed by the beach boys. Both sticks were insanely tough and fairly heavy. The weight didn't really bother me. I find heavier sticks less tiring when playing heavier music.
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2013, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I use Regal Maple sticks. They seem to very durable and I like the weight and feel. Having said that, I remember that someone on this forum (or another one, I don't remember) mentioned Boso sticks made from compresses bamboo. They sound very interesting but I can't find them here. I would love to try them. Does anyone have any experience with them?
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2013, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
Ahead stick by Easton. They have an aluminium center shaft and a hard plastic sleeve on the outside. the plastic dents a little but wont crack and the stick itself wont break. there pricy around 30 buck a pair but they last. the sleeve is replaceable as well as the tip.
In my opinion, these feel so terrible in my hands, and they still broke! I would never use these again, or recommend them... but that's just me. For durablity, I would go with ProMark Shira Kashi Oak sticks in your preferred size.
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2013, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I don't think your issue is faulty sticks. I think your issue is your set up and the way you're playing your cymbals.

As I watch your playing, I see that the crash cymbal on your left is low and angled so that when you crash on it, you're actually doing a couple of things that your sticks clearly hate. First, while you're not a basher, your grip could be a little looser when it comes to crashing your cymbals. Secondly, because of the angle your stick is making with the cymbal, and especially how the cymbal tilt gets extreme after you hit it, you're getting a lot of stick tip on a cymbal your trying to crash. If it was a ride and you were playing it that hard with a stiff grip, the sticks would break the same way, but people don't tend to hit rides as if they were crashes - unless they're trying to crash them, of course, but in that case, they're not using the tip of the stick.

Whenever I see a stick breaking up near the tip on the shoulder, I always think the angle of something, somewhere on the kit is too steep and your snare and toms look fine. I'd seriously think about raising that cymbal up and/or flattening it out a bit. That A Custom on your right is kinda the same thing, but it looks like a crash you're trying to ride on, so that's a little different. But isn't helping matters because when you go to crash it, you're catching a lot of tip on it, too.

I don't think any of my crashes have ever been hit with a stick tip (again, ride cymbal just doesn't get the force a crash cymbal does) and none of my sticks break where yours are breaking.

Funny because I posted earlier today on this very topic. When I was young and breaking my sticks up there like yours, an older drummer identified that I had EVERYTHING too tilted and that was causing my stick woes. I leveled everything out like he said and haven't had that problem since.
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2013, 05:59 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I don't think your issue is faulty sticks. I think your issue is your set up and the way you're playing your cymbals.

As I watch your playing, I see that the crash cymbal on your left is low and angled so that when you crash on it, you're actually doing a couple of things that your sticks clearly hate. First, while you're not a basher, your grip could be a little looser when it comes to crashing your cymbals. Secondly, because of the angle your stick is making with the cymbal, and especially how the cymbal tilt gets extreme after you hit it, you're getting a lot of stick tip on a cymbal your trying to crash. If it was a ride and you were playing it that hard with a stiff grip, the sticks would break the same way, but people don't tend to hit rides as if they were crashes - unless they're trying to crash them, of course, but in that case, they're not using the tip of the stick.

Whenever I see a stick breaking up near the tip on the shoulder, I always think the angle of something, somewhere on the kit is too steep and your snare and toms look fine. I'd seriously think about raising that cymbal up and/or flattening it out a bit. That A Custom on your right is kinda the same thing, but it looks like a crash you're trying to ride on, so that's a little different. But isn't helping matters because when you go to crash it, you're catching a lot of tip on it, too.

I don't think any of my crashes have ever been hit with a stick tip (again, ride cymbal just doesn't get the force a crash cymbal does) and none of my sticks break where yours are breaking.

Funny because I posted earlier today on this very topic. When I was young and breaking my sticks up there like yours, an older drummer identified that I had EVERYTHING too tilted and that was causing my stick woes. I leveled everything out like he said and haven't had that problem since.

Thanks, the A custom on the left is a 17" fast crash that i am using as a ride until i buy a ride. I used to play with my cymbals flattened out alot more but then i cracked the cymbal on the right up near the bell, once the crack progresses i will end up with a splash haha. I though it was either from the cymbal being 20 years old and being abused at a school for 18 of those years before i got it or from having it flattened out so when i bought my A custom i figured i better tilt them a bit to prevent them from cracking that way again. I will be buying another crash, ride and a china of A customs in a few weeks so i need to decide how to make them last as best as i can, that also involves replacing that cheap nasty stand on the right that is already at it's max height because it is so short.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I've had problems with Vic Firth too. http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96205

I switched to Vater (I use the SD9's in both hickory and sugar maple) and they're brilliant. Great feel and high durability.
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  #28  
Old 01-19-2013, 04:46 PM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Yeah the Vater sticks i bought so far have been good. They only have to last another week and they have outlasted the Vic's.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

You may want to take a look at your technique, are you playing through the drums and cymbals ? How tightly are you gripping your sticks ? Are you letting the sticks rebound naturally ? I have seen a LOT of younger unschooled drummers just starting out that break a lot of sticks just for this reason.

Put your drums or practice pad near or mirror or use your cell phone to take a short video of you playing with your normal technique. It may just surprise you. Lots of drummers that break a lot of sticks try to play "through " the drum or cymbal rather than pulling the sound out of the drums. They play the cymbals straight on rather than swiping at them. All these are contributing factors to stick breakage.

Take a look at youtube videos of Tommy Igoe, JoJo Mayer for stick technique tips. They also have excellent instructional DVDs out that are well worth viewing.

Gordy Knudtsen has an excellent DVD package on the push pull technique and others. highly recommended.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I changed to Silver Fox 1A's about 18 months ago & reduced my breakages by at least 50%. Prior to that, I used VF.
i agree i bought a batch of silverfox 5a sticks on ebay a few years ago and still have like 6 pairs of them. they have some cool coating too.

other than that i always have pro marks laying about. i don't think i've seen them split/crack, they just have loads of dents on them. i never buy vic firth now because i had an awful experience with a batch of 5a (not novas). vater are cool too.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:12 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickP View Post
You may want to take a look at your technique, are you playing through the drums and cymbals ? How tightly are you gripping your sticks ? Are you letting the sticks rebound naturally ? I have seen a LOT of younger unschooled drummers just starting out that break a lot of sticks just for this reason.

Put your drums or practice pad near or mirror or use your cell phone to take a short video of you playing with your normal technique. It may just surprise you. Lots of drummers that break a lot of sticks try to play "through " the drum or cymbal rather than pulling the sound out of the drums. They play the cymbals straight on rather than swiping at them. All these are contributing factors to stick breakage.

Take a look at youtube videos of Tommy Igoe, JoJo Mayer for stick technique tips. They also have excellent instructional DVDs out that are well worth viewing.

Gordy Knudtsen has an excellent DVD package on the push pull technique and others. highly recommended.
I don't think i swipe my cymbals but i do know that my head last ages, I've got 3 months on the ones on there and apart from the paint being shiny where the sticks hit they still look new. As for cymbals i need to rethink the way i set my kit up because i always feel cramped when hitting the crashes. Fitting drum kits in bedrooms is an art. I will watch those videos on youtube too. I've been considering getting a few lessons just to teach me some techniques and stuff.
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  #32  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
Ahead stick by Easton. They have an aluminium center shaft and a hard plastic sleeve on the outside. the plastic dents a little but wont crack and the stick itself wont break. there pricy around 30 buck a pair but they last. the sleeve is replaceable as well as the tip.
i would not suggest ahead sticks, you end up having to replace the sleeve, which can really adds up over time. Many complain about cracking cymbals with these, especially if you dont replace the sleeve. For insane durability, go with vater, they last so much longer than vics and promarks.
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  #33  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I used to break Vic like crazy. Switched to Vater and they last at least 4 times more (still break because I play rimshot on the snare 99% of thd time )
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  #34  
Old 01-23-2013, 07:39 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

The vater's i bought are already out lasting the Vic's, by now the Vics normally have a crack showing or at least a ton of dents from rim shots. The Vater's still look great.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Vaters are reknowned for durability. Heard a writer in a drum magazine say that he endorsed the 7A and it never broke after using it for years.
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  #36  
Old 01-23-2013, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

While I don't have any problems with sticks breaking a lot considering that I use Vic Firth MS4's, a good pair to try for a, uh, "normal" sized stick (lol), are the Zildjian Mike Mangini signatures, if you don't mind a little extra weight to your sticks. I used to use them and they were great.
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  #37  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:04 PM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

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While I don't have any problems with sticks breaking a lot considering that I use Vic Firth MS4's, a good pair to try for a, uh, "normal" sized stick (lol), are the Zildjian Mike Mangini signatures, if you don't mind a little extra weight to your sticks. I used to use them and they were great.
I can't tell what the ziljians are because they are so used that everything is pretty much worn off them lol. All i can read is that they are 5A's and the signature Starts with a J then a few letters later it has a N and then the last name starts with a S and ends with a S if that makes sense.
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  #38  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I live in Oz too (WA to be exact). Since Oct12 many shops (not all unfortunately) started doing them sticks (ProMark, Vic Firth, Vater) for $12.95 each (for standard models) & $2-3 extra for signature models. Obviously to get us to buy from shop & not online.
Still remember the days of $24.95 per pair!!!!!!
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  #39  
Old 01-30-2013, 03:10 AM
SolDrumcovers SolDrumcovers is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 43
Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by art5 View Post
I live in Oz too (WA to be exact). Since Oct12 many shops (not all unfortunately) started doing them sticks (ProMark, Vic Firth, Vater) for $12.95 each (for standard models) & $2-3 extra for signature models. Obviously to get us to buy from shop & not online.
Still remember the days of $24.95 per pair!!!!!!
I guess Tasmania is a bit slow to catch on, here sticks vary on price depending on size. Vic Firth 7AN $16.50 5B $19.50, Zildjian 5A $17.50 etc. I've decided once my Vater 5B's die I'm going to try some Pro Mark oak 7AN sticks. I really don't like 5B sticks, thought i'd give them a go but they feel like you will put a hole through your heads they're so big! I love 7AN sticks tho, they are great!
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:31 PM
x_25 x_25 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Northwest NJ
Posts: 80
Default Re: Durable stick sugestions. Please help.

I have settled on Vic Firth,. 5B's if I need to be loud (keeping up with bigger guitar amps) or, if we break out the 5 watt tube amp, I will use AJ1's. I use to chew through the sticks on the high hats (I would be covered in wood chips by the end of practice :P) but a little change in technique fixed that and my sticks now last ages. I actually end up with little bits of the tip breaking off before I actually break the stick anymore.

I actually tried the pro-mark japanese white oaks and split one in two weeks, right along the grain.

Btw, when I say ages, I buy a pair a year or so now. Though I at this point I am only playing 4 hours a week or so at band practice (on real drums, e-drums at home).
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