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  #1  
Old 12-23-2012, 04:46 AM
permutation
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Default Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

Just recently purchased a Gibraltar Super Spanner drum rack with L-rods in which I'm mounting my 10" and 12" toms. The problem I've come across is when I mount the 12" tom it sounds choked or dead sounding. I've tried tuning it on and off the rack but the L-rods seem to just ground out the resonance of the tom. The 10" tom is not effected at all. Has anybody come across this problem?

Last edited by permutation; 12-23-2012 at 04:47 AM. Reason: reword
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

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Originally Posted by permutation View Post
Just recently purchased a Gibraltar Super Spanner drum rack with L-rods in which I'm mounting my 10" and 12" toms. The problem I've come across is when I mount the 12" tom it sounds choked or dead sounding. I've tried tuning it on and off the rack but the L-rods seem to just ground out the resonance of the tom. The 10" tom is not effected at all. Has anybody come across this problem?


You put the 12 tom on the 10 toms L rod and it grounded it out so to speak?

What kind of drums are these and are the tom brackets bolted directly to the shell?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

Thanks for the reply Les Ismore.The L-rods are both 10.5mm. The drums are by Allegra Drums (Portland, Oregon). Talked with the owner about it and he didn't really have any advice but to tune around it. If I tune the drum higher it opens up but the feel and higher tuning range just doesn't sit well within the 10" tom and 14 floor tom. The 10" and 12" both have mounting brackets attached on the outside of two lugs. So no, the tom brackets are not bolted directly to the shell.
I've tried sliding the L-rod out as far as possible on the multi-clamp that holds the L-rods in place, which helps bring out more resonance from the drums but still the drum isn't opening up like it should.
One more thing. If I mount the 12" tom off a cymbal stand with a rod ball arm, the drum sounds fine.
Maybe I should swap out the L- rods and try out L-rod Ball Arms?
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

Am I reading this correctly......you have RIMS style suspension mounts that only attatch to two lugs?

If so, I'm wondering if the the RIMS mounts are causing too much stress on the tension rods (due to the 12" being heavier), which in turn is affecting the sound produced. And if that's the case, the problem doesn't lie with the L-arm, but the suspension mount itself.

Pics may help us sight the problem a little better though.
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:52 AM
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Default Re: Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

Pocket-full-of-Gold, no they are not RIMS style mounts.They are custom style mounts designed by the owner at Allegra Drum Crafters. If you don't mind, go to the Allegra Drum Crafters website and you will see what I'm referring to. Just type in the name.
As you'll see, the suspension mount is not touching the lug screws. It is isolated on the outside of two lugs by a hex bolt on each lug.
It's as if the rack and L-rod are just negating the frequency of the 12" drum, and I say both rack and L-rod because if I mount the drum onto the L-rod separate from the rack and just hold the L- rod in my hand, the drum sounds fine.
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

I say both rack and L-rod because if I mount the drum onto the L-rod separate from the rack and just hold the L- rod in my hand, the drum sounds fine.

That's what Gary Gauger referred to as the RIMS TEST back in the 80's

There's not enough support on just two lugs for a 12 tom (and bigger).

Choking isn't a problem for instance on the GRETSCH design, which contacts 4 points. And the GRETSCH bracket seems to make more contact on the L-Rod, which IMO helps.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
I say both rack and L-rod because if I mount the drum onto the L-rod separate from the rack and just hold the L- rod in my hand, the drum sounds fine.

That's what Gary Gauger referred to as the RIMS TEST back in the 80's

There's not enough support on just two lugs for a 12 tom (and bigger).

Choking isn't a problem for instance on the GRETSCH design, which contacts 4 points. And the GRETSCH bracket seems to make more contact on the L-Rod, which IMO helps.
I see and hear what your saying Les Ismore, though I don't think it is a design flaw for 12" toms and larger. Again, if I mount the 12" tom onto L-rod ball with mount off a cymbal stand, there is no problem. So it seems the problem revolves around the the L-rod/rack spanner combo. I should also point out, I've played these drums where there is a 14" and 16" tom hanging off a dual mount cymbal stand with the same tom mount design and they sounded good.
The drums are very light. The lugs are machined aluminum and the shells are all Keller 6ply maple.
I just don't think the tom mount design is torquing out the lug screws because of the design or the weight of the drum.

I do appreciate the feedback with the troubleshooting.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

I've played these drums where there is a 14" and 16" tom hanging off a dual mount cymbal stand with the same tom mount design and they sounded good.

There's something about the 12 and 13's head are to overall mass ratio that seems to increase the effect. The bigger drums have bigger heads/vibrating membranes. Smaller (8, 10) isn't as heavy and/or the weight distribution is more optimal.

All the sizes are effected to degree (which i can hear) just the 12, 13 seem to be more subject.

There's also a dynamic happening with stands when weight is distributed unevenly on them...say a 10 and a 12 hanging on the same stand, the difference in weight loads the stand unevenly, there's a sonic effect as the vibrations are transfered back the the drums.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Gibraltar L-rods grounding out 12" tom

I've had the very same problem with my 12" tom since the day I got my kit. The main factor behind it seems to be the 10" tom, if I have them sitting side by side the 10" tom sounds perfect but the 12" sounds like crap. Remove the 10" tom, and the 12" sounds amazing again. They are tuned with the fundamental note a 4th apart, 10" D and 12" A, so extending the interval might be worth trying. Also, it sounds better on a cymbal stand than on the bassdrum mount or the rack, which is why I am now playing 8", 10", 14" and 16" toms as a 6 piece setup, but with the 12" and a splash mounted on a cymbal stand to my left, next to the hi-hat.

Added two old threads I started regarding my 12" tom, I haven't read them through now but you might find something.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=94627
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=72339

I know there are several other threads about dead sounding 12" toms but it seems like the search function isn't really working like it should, I tried searching "and" in General discussion and got 0 results,
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