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  #1  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:49 PM
Hotstixlix Hotstixlix is offline
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Default Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

I want to add a counterweight to one of my Mapex cymbal stands (with boom) that can be merely added to the end of the boom to keep the stand from falling over. The stand is to be placed directly in front of the the bass drum. I know that the boom should be ordinarily placed parallel to one of the legs of the stand, but this means that I would have to grow longer arms to reach the ride cymbal.

Is there a universal-fit counterweight that could be epoxied to the end of the boom, and that doesn't involve having to buy an entirely new boom and/or putting threads on the end of the boom? Or....if all else fails, is there a cheap way to jury-rig a heavy material such as a fishing weight, etc.?

Thanks,

Barry
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

I once saw a cymbal stand with a 16 oz plastic soda bottle attached to the end of a cymbal boom arm via a worm drive automotive hose clamp to hold it in place. It was filled with hardend cement.
I thought that it was a pretty cool idea.
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:06 PM
Hotstixlix Hotstixlix is offline
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

After a careful search, the only counterweights I have found are the ones made by DW, and they are designed to fit only their 9000 series boom stands.....but wait!! How about using one that has been designed for microphone booms? Amazon offers them in 3 and 6 pound versions. I have no idea if they would fit on cymbal booms, however.

http://www.amazon.com/On-Stage-Stand.../dp/B0010HHAXC
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:07 PM
Hotstixlix Hotstixlix is offline
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
I once saw a cymbal stand with a 16 oz plastic soda bottle attached to the end of a cymbal boom arm via a worm drive automotive hose clamp to hold it in place. It was filled with hardend cement.
I thought that it was a pretty cool idea.
Good idea. Sounds like it might have been a post for "Drummers of Walmart."
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

A sandbag on one of the legs could work. I've also used small free weights around the center tube on a mic stand before.
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Seems like a situation that repositioning the stand to one side of the kick should solve. Also, if you have a tom mount on the kick, a boom arm and clamp might be another solution.

Do you have a picture of what you are trying to do?
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

It really sounds like it is time for a drum rack.
I have never had this problem. I don't place large cymbals in this position on my kits.
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2012, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

I always keep a supply of sand bags in different weights and sizes. I also use lifting weights to go over the legs or booms of my stands. They are cheap and can be configured where ever they're needed. Sometimes it's much quicker to sandbag something than to have to reconfigure it for more stability when in a hurry. When on location, I like to be prepared for just about anything.



I have barbell weights from about 2 1/2 to about 20 pounds to keep things balanced when needed as seen on some of these mic stand bases.



Dennis
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Have you thought about adding some useful weight to the stand? In other words, attach more than one cymbal to the stand, or mount toms on it. Many drummers have a forest of stands and with a little thought, they could have fewer stands with more things on them, the weight of each thing adding mass to balance the other things.

If you really want a weight, I'd look at repurposing some real weight, not a soda bottle, duct tape or sand bags, which look ghetto in my opinion. For example, go to a scrap yard and get a milled/rolled cylinder of steel or similar object, drill it and tap it for threads to match your boom arm. Paint it black if you like.

Another option is to get steel drain pipe and caps for both ends and drill out cap to accept the rod. Fill it with cement, put on the cap, insert the rod straight in and wait a day or so. This is pretty permanent but would certainly give you the weight you need and look a little better.

I actually have a couple of old boom weights I could sell you. If you're interested, let me know the threading on your boom arm and I can check my weights. Take the arm to a hardware store and they can give you the width and thread count and metric vs. ASE.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:59 PM
Hotstixlix Hotstixlix is offline
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
Seems like a situation that repositioning the stand to one side of the kick should solve. Also, if you have a tom mount on the kick, a boom arm and clamp might be another solution.

Do you have a picture of what you are trying to do?
Thanks, Al. I did take a look at the tom mount and I think that I can add a clamp to the mount as you suggested. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. As for everyone else, thanks for your suggestions and help. I have sandbags that I may use for this particular stand if Al's trick doesn't work out. Jury-rigged and Walmart? Yes, but since I play in an 18-piece jazz band, I have the honor of having several other musicians in front of me, so no one in audiences can see cymbal stand bases.

I have used the ride cymbal stands in the past on the left and right, but after seeing the setup used by Frank Sinatra's drummer, Irv Cottler. Irv (deceased) used a single ride, with two crashes (one to the right and one left of the ride). I want to try this type of setup. I could add another cymbal, but need room for the %#@* music stand.
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

The images that I have seen of Irv and his drums always show bass drum mounted cymbal holders with strait stands on either side.
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:16 PM
Hotstixlix Hotstixlix is offline
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
The images that I have seen of Irv and his drums always show bass drum mounted cymbal holders with strait stands on either side.
Bob, thanks for the photo. I have several DVDs of Sinatra, singing with Irv on drums. TV cameras usually don't give good images of drum setups; your photo solved the mystery of how Irv was so effective with his minimalist kit.

I also liked the sound of Irv's crash cymbals....high-pitched with what sounded like a fairly long decay. I called Zildjian a few months ago to find out what cymbals he used when he played for Sinatra, but they couldn't provide an answer.
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Bass drum mounted cymbal stands were the norm for the big band guys.
There wasn't a lot of room on bandstands for cymbal stand bases.
I set up my kit that way because I grew up with kits like that and I prefer those cymbal holders.
I am old school.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:12 PM
Hotstixlix Hotstixlix is offline
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Bass drum mounted cymbal stands were the norm for the big band guys.
There wasn't a lot of room on bandstands for cymbal stand bases.
I set up my kit that way because I grew up with kits like that and I prefer those cymbal holders.
I am old school.
....and the lack of bandstand room persists to this day. I don't care how early I arrive to complete a setup: the trumpets and saxes still insist on crowding up to the set. If I need to move the cymbal stands out just a bit after those guys have arrived, I have to be quick. I don't know why there is such a resistance by the drum companies to placing cymbal access parts on bass drums. It saves having to schlepp at least two complete stands and solves the problem of front-of-the-B.D. placement of the stands.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

The claim for virgin bass drums is that total isolation is the key to the purest sound from each component of the kit.
In a recording studio that is true I guess but in a live situation it simply doesn't matter.
I hate to haul gear and I love my bass drum mounts.
I also sense the connection of my bass, tom, and ride and I like the feedback.
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Last edited by bobdadruma; 12-27-2012 at 07:41 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:31 PM
Hotstixlix Hotstixlix is offline
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Bob, do you have any information as to which company(s) sell quality bass drum mounts, perhaps such as the ones pictured in your photo? I haven't seen such hardware anywhere.

Thanks,

Barry
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  #17  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Mine are made by Gibraltar. they are available at Musicians Friend. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums...m?src=3WWRWXGP You can order memory locks separately. I advise that.
Drum Workshop makes a heavier duty version.
ludwig also makes their version.
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  #18  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

dw makes a long and a short version.
http://www.interstatemusic.com/33202...FQyk4AodLAUAsw
http://www.cymbalfusion.com/DW-Short...-DWSM770S.html
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Danmar also make an arm. I bought a Danmar arm and floor-tom bracket (the brand escapes me) to fit to my 22" bass drum and was so pleased with the results that I now have them on my 20" and my 16" too. The Gibraltar arm is good value and solid.

It's a really great way of mounting cymbals. There are some minor issues - you might get some wobble as a result of bass drum playing and the bass drum and ride cymbal occasionally interact and you hear a little bass drum resonance from playing the ride but in all I really, really like mounting from the bass drum. It's solved any number of setup problems for me and has significantly lightened my hardware load.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:52 PM
Hotstixlix Hotstixlix is offline
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Bob, I can't thank you enough. I'll check out the sources you quoted. Thanks again! Thanks, BFY. I'll also consider your comments. This cymbal thing has been driving me nuts for a long time.

Barry
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  #21  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Here is what the short DW bass drum cymbal mount looks like. It's a very sturdy arm complete with memory locks. It has many great features including a variable tension cymbal holder (cymbal seat) where you can have the cymbal as tight or loose as you want, and still completely tighten the top wing nut.





Dennis
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  #22  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotstixlix View Post
I want to add a counterweight to one of my Mapex cymbal stands (with boom) that can be merely added to the end of the boom to keep the stand from falling over. The stand is to be placed directly in front of the the bass drum. I know that the boom should be ordinarily placed parallel to one of the legs of the stand, but this means that I would have to grow longer arms to reach the ride cymbal.
Just out of interest, is this for practical or aesthetic reasons?

Any chance of posting a pic without the cymbals?

I used counterweights on some stands for a few years, (PITA) but unless you want to go for an 80's set up, I honestly don't see how a 10"-12" move of the stand base can't alleviate the problem unless you have a rather unusual set up.
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  #23  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotstixlix View Post
Bob, I can't thank you enough. I'll check out the sources you quoted. Thanks again! Thanks, BFY. I'll also consider your comments. This cymbal thing has been driving me nuts for a long time.

Barry
You're welcome Barry, I hope that the bass mounted cymbal holder is the right answer for you.
Like others have said, If you put pics up of your kit there may be other solutions for you also.
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  #24  
Old 12-29-2012, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

Drum racks are the way to go IMO. I have 2 kits, both with racks, Pearl Icon and Gibraltar. I like the reassurance that nothing will fall over. Never had a problem with anything falling. If it's in your budget, I would recommend something like these.
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  #25  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Help! Need advice on cymbal boom stand counterweights

If you have enough length of the boom arm available, attach a crash cymbal to it via a cymbal arm or clamp assembly. Something like this:
http://store.dwdrums.com/p/dwsm799-s...ll?pp=10&pp=10

That solved it for me and the 20" ride. Gibralter and Tama make their own versions too. Not a cheap fix, but hey - you always need another crash, don't you ٩(-̮̮̃-̃)۶
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