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  #1  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:27 PM
LanceG33 LanceG33 is offline
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Default 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

10 years ago today one of rock's most powerful and emotional voices passed. Still miss this guy an awful lot.

Would?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Pxh8FZr58

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alsUu-MGE9g
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2012, 12:53 PM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

Goin' down the steps on a white line.........Straight to nowhere

He called it.....and he did it.

Yep, a shame indeed. I was a fan too. Just been listen' to Facelift to mark the occasion as a result of your thread.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Goin' down the steps on a white line.........Straight to nowhere

He called it.....and he did it.

Yep, a shame indeed. I was a fan too. Just been listen' to Facelift to mark the occasion as a result of your thread.
This. All the songs he did about drug taking. He was a junkie, and proud of it. As tragic as it is, he certainly chose his own destiny.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

I think he was susceptible to that drug more than most and he was gone many years before his heart stopped. I don't think he was proud of it at all - maybe thought it was cool at first, and no doubt he really liked it, but by the time he was full-on, I think he knew there was no turning back. Really sad.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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I think he was susceptible to that drug more than most and he was gone many years before his heart stopped. I don't think he was proud of it at all - maybe thought it was cool at first, and no doubt he really liked it, but by the time he was full-on, I think he knew there was no turning back. Really sad.
You may be right about that, but I think certainly in the first 2 albums he does come across to me at least as being proud of being a druggie. One song that made me think that in particular was Junkhead. He not only sounds as if he thinks taking drugs is great, but sounds positively disdainful of anyone who says otherwise. Maybe he was just being defensive about his lifestyle choice?
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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Originally Posted by eddiehimself View Post
You may be right about that, but I think certainly in the first 2 albums he does come across to me at least as being proud of being a druggie. One song that made me think that in particular was Junkhead. He not only sounds as if he thinks taking drugs is great, but sounds positively disdainful of anyone who says otherwise. Maybe he was just being defensive about his lifestyle choice?
I'm straight edge...never had a buzz of any kind. And I did not choose that "lifestyle". Not sure why you would think he chose his.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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I'm straight edge...never had a buzz of any kind. And I did not choose that "lifestyle". Not sure why you would think he chose his.
Because most people don't have a gun pointed to their head and say "take these or die!" (some do). Most people chose whether or not to take drugs. Yes it is very hard to get off them once you're addicted but no-one made him take that first hit. I really don't know why you think it is somehow not a matter of choice. You could easily go and get some stuff from your local dealer on the street corner right now if you wanted to probably, but you remain a straight edge. Why? Because it is a choice. Don't try to pretend it is something that it is not.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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And I did not choose that "lifestyle". Not sure why you would think he chose his.
Of course you did. You choose not to get lit up. Great, nothing wrong about that. Layne most definitely chose to get lit up. But choosing not to get lit up anymore after the addiction and physical degradation has set in is much easier said then done. If you've never been addicted to anything, you wouldn't understand that.
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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Because most people don't have a gun pointed to their head and say "take these or die!" (some do). Most people chose whether or not to take drugs. Yes it is very hard to get off them once you're addicted but no-one made him take that first hit. I really don't know why you think it is somehow not a matter of choice. You could easily go and get some stuff from your local dealer on the street corner right now if you wanted to probably, but you remain a straight edge. Why? Because it is a choice. Don't try to pretend it is something that it is not.
Here, let me ask you a few questions. If you have choice.

For the weekend, or anytime, choose to *hate* the people you love. Secretly. They don't need to know. Or better yet, choose to do it when they aren't around so they couldn't be affected by your hate. Go ahead, it is just your choice, right?

Or for a day choose to love someone that you despise..the person you despise the most. Choose for a day to love them more than anyone. It's just a choice, right?

Or, choose to love a food you hate. A food that sickens you...choose to love it for a weekend. It's just a choice right?

I'll give you an example to try and help the point. There are monkeys in the Caribbean on some of the islands...brought over by ships in the past. The one island is a tourist island. The monkeys there have learned to run up and take the plastic cups full of alcohol that the tourists are sitting at the beach drinking. The monkeys steal these drinks to drink them.

Those monkeys have been studied. They found that in that population of monkeys there is the same percentage of teetotalers (those that don't drink at all), social drinkers and complete alcoholics as are found in human populations. Humans and monkeys have the same percentage of non drinkers and alcoholics when exposed to alcohol. People do not "choose" to be the non drinker or the alcoholic anymore than the monkeys do. It is in the genetic gene pool to be those things.

And I can speak to this well since I've never had a drink or a drug for recreational highs. You apparently think I chose this. I didn't. How do I know? Because I don't want to do it. I don't want to experience it for many reasons. The key here is...why don't I want to? Those are things created in our genetics and experiences that shape the things we enjoy and things we don't enjoy. I could go on and on here, but I'm hoping you see my point by now.

If a person doesn't choose what their base drives are..the things that make them enjoy stuff or not enjoy stuff...then they don't choose what they pursue for enjoyment or choose to avoid a lack of enjoyment.

I can assure you that no one that is straight edge chooses that. I can also assure that no one that tries a drug for the first time really chooses it. I know, by how you are using the word it is a choice...but go back to my earlier questions.

If you have children, at what point did you choose to love them? I'm sure you didn't. The person that agitates you at the office or in the neighborhood or whatever, the qualities that makes you irritated by them, when did you choose to find those qualities irritating? Or did you just start feeling agitated? And those traits that you like or dislike in someone, you didn't choose those things that make you agitated by those traits.

I realize that this post isn't going to go over well. I just get agitated (not a choice though!) when people claim that an addict chose to be an addict and therefore chose to die. I know you are going to say he chose to start doing drugs. Again, I didn't choose not too. It wasn't a choice. I couldn't choose to do drugs...that would have made me less happy, or at least I would have thought so (and still do). The thing that makes me think it would cause me to be unhappy...that thing...I did not choose.

And even though we all make mistakes, we all pursue happiness. I'm sure Layne thought that doing drugs made him happy. If he felt that way, he didn't choose the fact that he thought that doing drugs would make him happy. He was just trying to be happy. He was wrong, from accounts I've read on his own view of his happiness, but I'm sure at the time before he became addicted, he thought it was a good thing.

I'm not sure if I'm being clear. I tend to speak better than write.

To use your statement, no one put a gun to my head and told me I couldn't get high. Why didn't I? You'll say because I chose to. I'll tell you again, I'm just trying to be as happy as I can be and I feel getting high would lessen that for me. And, to keep beating that dead horse, I didn't choose whatever leads me to believe that. Therefore the "choice" to not do drugs so to keep my happiness as great as possible wasn't a choice.
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

I didn't much get it when they first came out, but by the 2nd album I started to get it, and eventually I bought everything they put out.

Great band. Too bad Layne couldn't keep it together.
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  #11  
Old 04-06-2012, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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Originally Posted by Boom View Post
To use your statement, no one put a gun to my head and told me I couldn't get high. Why didn't I? You'll say because I chose to. I'll tell you again, I'm just trying to be as happy as I can be and I feel getting high would lessen that for me. And, to keep beating that dead horse, I didn't choose whatever leads me to believe that. Therefore the "choice" to not do drugs so to keep my happiness as great as possible wasn't a choice.
You have just admitted you have never taken drugs so how could you possibly know this would be the case that you would suddenly become unhappy? You are just assuming that is the case. Again, you have chosen a lifestyle which does not involve drugs. No-one made you do that, that is a choice you made for yourself. Why you did that is not really the issue. If someone chose to go and kill someone because "that is just the way they are" or "that would make them happy" then it doesn't suddenly make it right.

Oh and by the way, shorten up the replies a bit. No-one likes wasting half an hour reading someone else's posts and if you can't say what you want to say in less than a few sentences, then maybe what you want to say isn't worth saying ;)
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

So which gene decided to put the needle in his arm?
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

I remember when he died and it was just a blip in the news. It was also sad to hear he was a recluse and he died several days before he was found.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:09 PM
LanceG33 LanceG33 is offline
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

Wow, after reading a post on another blog it turns out April 5th is quite a dark day for music all around:

  • 1994: Kurt Cobain
  • 1998: Cozy Powell
  • 2002: Layne Staley
  • 2007: Mark St. John
  • 2012: Jim Marshall
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  #15  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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Originally Posted by eddiehimself View Post
You have just admitted you have never taken drugs so how could you possibly know this would be the case that you would suddenly become unhappy? You are just assuming that is the case. Again, you have chosen a lifestyle which does not involve drugs. No-one made you do that, that is a choice you made for yourself. Why you did that is not really the issue. If someone chose to go and kill someone because "that is just the way they are" or "that would make them happy" then it doesn't suddenly make it right.

Oh and by the way, shorten up the replies a bit. No-one likes wasting half an hour reading someone else's posts and if you can't say what you want to say in less than a few sentences, then maybe what you want to say isn't worth saying ;)
I don't know if it would make me happy or not to do drugs. That is my point. We are imperfect. I might be way happier if I did drugs. I might be way happier if I did drugs to death. But I do not want to try them. Why do I not want to try them? Because I "feel" or "believe" or "sense" or whatever word that it would lead me to less happiness. Whether I'm right or wrong to believe that is beside the point.

You said "If someone chose to go and kill someone because 'that is just the way they are' or 'that would make them happy' then it doesn't suddenly make it right". I'm not sure where this is coming from except for your own bias coming out in your argument. I'm not saying one thing is better. This is irrelevant to the point.

I'm saying we are all led by happiness. We can fool ourselves or trick ourselves into thinking something will make us happier. But we can't pursue something that we think will make us unhappy.

There is obviously no gene that leads us to do any specific thing. It is a combination of many genes and our genes reactions to our environment that makes us diverse in our reactions.. But I no more chose to be straight edge than he chose to be an addict. Why do you think this is the case?

Heck, one can be both a teetotaler and an addict. All I'm pointing out is that everyone seeks happiness. We seek it non stop. We are fallible and can do things contrary to our happiness, but we are just seeking it. And from the monkey example (which is just one of many) I'm showing you that there is genetic link to liking fermenting fruit. Both species evolved around fermenting fruit. Both developed similar proportions of non/social/alcoholics. It is just genetic diversity. It is just an illusion of choice. You are driven to do stuff from base needs that you did not pick. From the questions I gave you in my 2nd post above, I gave you a few general examples of that.

How to test it is to find a time you intentionally chose to do something that would make you less happy while knowing it would make you less happy. Ie...it wasn't a mistake. It wasn't you being foolish. You knew full well that what you were about to do would make you far less happy than you were and you did it anyway.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:32 AM
LanceG33 LanceG33 is offline
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

This whole free will with regards to drugs tangent is wildly entertaining but not really the point of the thread.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

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This whole free will with regards to drugs tangent is wildly entertaining but not really the point of the thread.
I'm sorry Lance. I apologize for the derail of your thread.

On topic. I loved Layne's work in Alice in Chains and Mad Season. I also agree that it is sad that no one knew for days because he didn't have constant contact with anyone at the end. I even watched the MTV unplugged recently...wasn't that one of his last performances? Maybe not, but he was full into his addiction then, and I still think he put on a great performance. As a fan, I definitely miss him.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom View Post
I'm sorry Lance. I apologize for the derail of your thread.

On topic. I loved Layne's work in Alice in Chains and Mad Season. I also agree that it is sad that no one knew for days because he didn't have constant contact with anyone at the end. I even watched the MTV unplugged recently...wasn't that one of his last performances? Maybe not, but he was full into his addiction then, and I still think he put on a great performance. As a fan, I definitely miss him.
All good Boom. I was drawn in to your posts yet I appreciate you being respectful. Shows your character as well as the general tone of a good forum.

*salute*
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:13 AM
maybelooking maybelooking is offline
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

Got to meet him and the band back in 91 here in Memphis when some friends of mine got the honor of opening up for them.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

One of the last truly great singers.. and probably the last era of REAL ROCK BANDS IMO.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

Thnx for posting...Layne had an incredible voice...range..and passion...but he saw his way...and we may not understand...not many come close to this poet of pain...RIP
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: 4/5: RIP Layne Staley

Just saw this thread...teaching my 13 year old son how to play "We Die Young" on guitar...


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4426027062308
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