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  #1  
Old 10-23-2012, 02:59 AM
PeteN PeteN is offline
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Default How do you deal with the feel?

I keep reading in various threads how so many of my drummerworld friends use no internal muffling in their bass drums and no porting for their resos and was just wondering how you guys/gals deal with the big difference in feel. I've tried my bass drum before with no internal muffling but with a ported reso and that never felt as good as any bass drum I've played that I used internal muffling in it.

The other thing I noticed when I have played a wide open bass drum is that any busy footwork does not sound crisp and clear to my ears compared to when I use some internal muffling like a pillow.

Do most guys using the wide open bass drum andl no porting favor playing simpler solid 4 on the floor style playing or do many re-learn how to play busy with the wide open bass.

I myself love playing simple solid beats but also love busy foot work for certain grooves or songs that are complemented by the busy style as well.

This whole thing has been a mystery to me so any feedback, experiences or similar feelings would really be helpful because I want to try the wide open bass drum and make it work for me in sound but more importantly feel.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-23-2012, 03:22 AM
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opentune opentune is offline
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

Unlike with a ported BD, you can't 'bury the beater' with your foot when unported, or at least to get the same response. You have to let the beater come off the head to get definition. It s acquired, but after awhile you get used to it with your footwork

There's no need to be simpler with unported, you just have to learn the feel. Many very fast feet (i.e. Bonham) that used unported.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:37 AM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

Put me down for what opentune said.

Bonhams foot patterns prove that a busy bass foot sounds just fine on an unported bass drum. The bounce back is what I had to get used to. There's no burying the beater on a wide open unported kick. At least I can't do it, I get all the multiple bounces. I don't like the buried beater tone anyway. I played ported my whole life, that's a lot of years, and just switched to unported 5 months ago or so. I play heel down and fully rebound the beater, always have. I had to get used to all the extra bounce back on the unported drum. Now that I am totally used to the bounce back, it's like I was playing unported my whole life.

On my recordings, my bass drum sounds nice and punchy. It has more bottom end onstage and is just a bigger, better sound with plenty of definition. I was very pleased with the first recordings I made playing unported. I am a convert. Unported for unmiced FTW.

Unported is fine with miced too, but unmiced? Unported and unmuffled gives you the best bass drum tone IMO. Miced, anything goes.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:56 AM
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8Mile 8Mile is offline
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

I think the best tone is un-ported and un-muffled but the best feel is ported.

I can play heel up on an un-ported drum but I usually don't. I like heel down for control and heel up for volume. If I'm playing an un-ported bass drum, it's probably my 18" in a setting where I tune higher for tone and want to play heel down anyway.

In my experience, if I'm going to play out and need the bass drum miced, it's better to have a ported head, muffling and play heel up, burying the beater. Too often, the band or sound guy simply doesn't know how to deal with tone coming from the bass drum, and I'm not interested in arguing about what sounds better. I have enough things to worry about so I go the path of least resistance.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:23 AM
PeteN PeteN is offline
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Unlike with a ported BD, you can't 'bury the beater' with your foot when unported, or at least to get the same response. You have to let the beater come off the head to get definition. It s acquired, but after awhile you get used to it with your footwork

There's no need to be simpler with unported, you just have to learn the feel. Many very fast feet (i.e. Bonham) that used unported.
Yeah bonham is one of my favorites and I knew his kick was wide open, and I used to bury the beater years ago but now let it rebound. I probably just need to try it again and stick with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Put me down for what opentune said.

Bonhams foot patterns prove that a busy bass foot sounds just fine on an unported bass drum. The bounce back is what I had to get used to. There's no burying the beater on a wide open unported kick. At least I can't do it, I get all the multiple bounces. I don't like the buried beater tone anyway. I played ported my whole life, that's a lot of years, and just switched to unported 5 months ago or so. I play heel down and fully rebound the beater, always have. I had to get used to all the extra bounce back on the unported drum. Now that I am totally used to the bounce back, it's like I was playing unported my whole life.

On my recordings, my bass drum sounds nice and punchy. It has more bottom end onstage and is just a bigger, better sound with plenty of definition. I was very pleased with the first recordings I made playing unported. I am a convert. Unported for unmiced FTW.

Unported is fine with miced too, but unmiced? Unported and unmuffled gives you the best bass drum tone IMO. Miced, anything goes.
See I agree this will give the best sound for live and unmiced just worried it will never feel as good as ported with minimal internal muffling. I just have to commit and give it an honest 6-12 month try. Would be nice to hear your recordings Larry, link please :-) ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I think the best tone is un-ported and un-muffled but the best feel is ported.

I can play heel up on an un-ported drum but I usually don't. I like heel down for control and heel up for volume. If I'm playing an un-ported bass drum, it's probably my 18" in a setting where I tune higher for tone and want to play heel down anyway.

In my experience, if I'm going to play out and need the bass drum miced, it's better to have a ported head, muffling and play heel up, burying the beater. Too often, the band or sound guy simply doesn't know how to deal with tone coming from the bass drum, and I'm not interested in arguing about what sounds better. I have enough things to worry about so I go the path of least resistance.
Now I don't feel alone anymore on the feel thing, hehe. Out of curiosity how much time have you put into playing unported and unmufled? I know the last time I tried unmufled, I stuck with it for a good month and I did start to get comfortable with the feel until I stuffed a little Dw pillow back in their and the feel was amazing lol.
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2012, 04:32 AM
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8Mile 8Mile is offline
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN View Post
Now I don't feel alone anymore on the feel thing, hehe. Out of curiosity how much time have you put into playing unported and unmufled? I know the last time I tried unmufled, I stuck with it for a good month and I did start to get comfortable with the feel until I stuffed a little Dw pillow back in their and the feel was amazing lol.
I spent a couple of years with it. I can do it fine, and it sounds better, but I still prefer the feel of the port. In fact, the best possible feel is with the reso head removed. But that sounds terrible.
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  #7  
Old 10-23-2012, 05:31 AM
audiotech
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

It all depends on what you are use to playing and that mind set can also be changed with just a little practice. I generally always use an unported bass drum, I just like the sound of it better. I play heel up or heel down from rock to jazz, I just never have to think about it. Oh, and don't let the sound man tell you that he can't mike the bass drum because there's no port in it.



Dennis
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:22 AM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN View Post
Yeah bonham is one of my favorites and I knew his kick was wide open, and I used to bury the beater years ago but now let it rebound. I probably just need to try it again and stick with it.

See I agree this will give the best sound for live and unmiced just worried it will never feel as good as ported with minimal internal muffling. I just have to commit and give it an honest 6-12 month try. Would be nice to hear your recordings Larry, link please :-) ?

Now I don't feel alone anymore on the feel thing, hehe. Out of curiosity how much time have you put into playing unported and unmufled? I know the last time I tried unmufled, I stuck with it for a good month and I did start to get comfortable with the feel until I stuffed a little Dw pillow back in their and the feel was amazing lol.
If you let the beater rebound, then there really shouldn't be too much adjustment time. It's the bury the beater technique that has to be totally abandoned for unported. I made the transition pretty seamlessly once I realized the superior tone. Like there's a reward with every stroke, it's worth the adjustment.

I haven't put up any recordings of my unported kick since I made the switch in May. Actually, there wasn't a whole lot of difference from my recorders POV between ported and unported. The mic is at least 15 feet away and from there, it does sound similar. Onstage it sounds different. Better different IMO. Porting kills a drums volume and tone, but with a kick drum, it's not as pronounced from a distance. Ever try cutting a 1 inch hole in a tom reso? Totally kills it.

I guess how long it takes you to adjust is dependent on you. I would also suggest no muffling. Any overtones you hear don't travel far, and they that give you that big fat tone. But it's not critical that you don't muffle. The muffled heads do a good job of focusing the tone without eliminating all the desirable overtones.
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2012, 12:17 PM
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The Scorpio The Scorpio is offline
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
It all depends on what you are use to playing and that mind set can also be changed with just a little practice. I generally always use an unported bass drum, I just like the sound of it better. I play heel up or heel down from rock to jazz, I just never have to think about it. Oh, and don't let the sound man tell you that he can't mike the bass drum because there's no port in it.



Dennis
I know we had a related discussion a little while back but I never thought to ask you then: In your live situations, do you muffle your kick at all? In a rock situation that is.
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2012, 12:04 AM
audiotech
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

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Originally Posted by The Scorpio View Post
I know we had a related discussion a little while back but I never thought to ask you then: In your live situations, do you muffle your kick at all? In a rock situation that is.
Nothing internal, meaning pillows or foam inside the bass drum. Since I'm using mostly Evans EQ4 batter heads, they have an internal ring attached to the heads. The rings are proportionately wider as the drum head grows in size. I also have two other bass drums that I sometimes use felt strips on the resonant head. Other than that, if I need a specific bass drum sound, it's done with tuning, beater type or microphone selection, sometimes all three. My rock kit is usually my Tama Starclassic Bubinga drums and it would really be sacrilegious to even try to stifle them, lol.

Dennis
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  #11  
Old 10-24-2012, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
Nothing internal, meaning pillows or foam inside the bass drum. Since I'm using mostly Evans EQ4 batter heads, they have an internal ring attached to the heads. The rings are proportionately wider as the drum head grows in size. I also have two other bass drums that I sometimes use felt strips on the resonant head. Other than that, if I need a specific bass drum sound, it's done with tuning, beater type or microphone selection, sometimes all three. My rock kit is usually my Tama Starclassic Bubinga drums and it would really be sacrilegious to even try to stifle them, lol.

Dennis
I love EQ4's! I used to work at a drum store and my go-to's for new kits were always those, or PS3's. Oh God I bet those Bubinga's sound amazing. I noticed the RE20 in the pic. I'm jealous as hell, sir haha.

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Old 10-24-2012, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

Or wait, what mic is that? I thought it was an RE20 but on second look I'm not so sure lol
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:57 AM
audiotech
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Default Re: How do you deal with the feel?

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Originally Posted by The Scorpio View Post
Or wait, what mic is that? I thought it was an RE20 but on second look I'm not so sure lol
Yes, it's an Electrovoice RE20 in a compact shock mount, it's my go to resonant head microphone live or studio. Once you get the bass drum sounding exactly the way you want it, the RE20 won't change or add any unnecessary artifacts. This is especially true concerning muddiness, which in the most part, is due to an overwhelming proximity effect associated with close placement of most cardioid microphones.

Dennis
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