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  #1  
Old 09-27-2012, 10:02 PM
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Default Genetically modified food

Scares the crap outta me. The FDA allows multinationals like Monsanto, who are one of the companies that are genetically modifying the food supply, to police themselves! Their stance is, "Oh yea, if you want to experiment with the food supply, on unsuspecting people, hey, we can't see any possible harm in that".

That is insanity. There's not even any labeling requirements. They can give us whatever they want.

The only way I know around it is to hunt the game behind my house and eat the wild vegetation, not really too feasible. You can't grow your own, the seeds you buy are modified. So many things we already consume are already modified, wheat being a prime example. Notice the rise in gluten free menu's lately? That's because the GM wheat is affecting more people with a propensity towards gluten intolerance. My own wife dropped gluten from her diet and she is looking and acting way healthier. I understand Europe is pulling GMO of their shelves. I dearly hope market forces prevail and stops the insanity. I don't know any way around this, as the food supply is managed by only a few companies.

I was curious as to what the international community thinks about this frightening subject. It negatively affects the health of each and every one of us in a major way.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

There are valid views both for & against GM food. It's worth bearing in mind that we've (collectively) been modifying all our food through selection for decades, so maybe GM is just a smarter shortcut extension of that. On the other hand, it's messing with stuff on a different level, & it's the unknown element that freaks most (including me) out.

I think the bigger concern is the level of mission creep, monopoly, & ludicrous belief in self regulation. The initial sales pitch on GM was to produce durable crops that could flourish in poor conditions, therefore feeding those typically most needy & exposed to frequent crop failures. That's cool :) Another "benefit" was the reduction of pesticides needed to ensure a good yield. Another cool goal.

Regrettably, although both of these aims are being satisfied to a minor degree, it's actually a massive commercial opportunity. These big companies are controlling the seed supply, so have most food production locked down.

Anyhow, I'm happy I live in a place where GM stuff is forbidden. Not only that, but a substantial portion of my area's food output is fully organic, & relating to meat, free range too. Believe it or not, because we source our food locally, it's actually cheaper than the big store stuff, & a big improvement in quality too.

Now I realise everyone can't live in the middle of nowhere, otherwise nowhere would become somewhere, but there are at least local production lessons to be learnt. I think GM stuff is better placed only where natural species cannot thrive, but I can't imagine that getting past the cash driven lobby system that applies in many countries somehow.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

As fellow Pennsylvania Larrys we're very much kindred spirits. Friggen GMO food and crops are forbidden in many countries. There was almost a war over GMOs in Italy a few years back I recall. No other country's government falls for the line of bullsh*t that Monsanto shovels except the good ol US of A. Politicians are literally bought and sold by Monsantos of the world. They even fight labeling!! Why? If GMOs are so safe like they say? Buying organic also help small family farmers in many cases, so that's where my money goes.

I read that 90% of US grown corn is genetically modified. And that the large majority of that GMO corn goes to feed livestock for meat consumption (why I'm also vegetarian for 20 years going now...). Hmmm...and Monsanto's first sang the praises of GMO seed because they wanted to be like Bob Geldof and "feed the world". Ha. Funny.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Yea, they sell it as, Oh it will help feed the poor. Bull s**t. The supermarkets of the US aren't where the poor are. This is evil stuff. I'm hearing bad bad stories about the consumption of GM food. I also read stories about how they are modifying plants to produce their own natural insecticide. Bugs that eat these plants die. And we're supposed to eat this stuff. Natural weeds won't grow around these plants. I heard stories of them using animal genes in plants. That's dangerously insane. I heard a story where a farmer was growing a non GM crop that was near where Monsanto was growing a GM crop. Well the GM crop pollenated the non GM crop, Monsanto snuck into this guys field, took a sample of his crop, tested it, and sued him for patent infringement or some other damn thing. Unbelievable. He couldn't help that. The barn door is open. You can't unring that bell. I really think this is going to have dire consequences in the future. I envy you even more now Andy. Going vegetarian is no solution, if those crops are GM too.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Scares the crap outta me. The FDA allows multinationals like Monsanto, who are one of the companies that are genetically modifying the food supply, to police themselves! Their stance is, "Oh yea, if you want to experiment with the food supply, on unsuspecting people, hey, we can't see any possible harm in that".

That is insanity. There's not even any labeling requirements. They can give us whatever they want.

The only way I know around it is to hunt the game behind my house and eat the wild vegetation, not really too feasible. You can't grow your own, the seeds you buy are modified. So many things we already consume are already modified, wheat being a prime example. Notice the rise in gluten free menu's lately? That's because the GM wheat is affecting more people with a propensity towards gluten intolerance. My own wife dropped gluten from her diet and she is looking and acting way healthier. I understand Europe is pulling GMO of their shelves. I dearly hope market forces prevail and stops the insanity. I don't know any way around this, as the food supply is managed by only a few companies.

I was curious as to what the international community thinks about this frightening subject. It negatively affects the health of each and every one of us in a major way.
Pffft. There is no (reliable) evidence anywhere of any kind that GMOs are in any way harmful. It's all just Internet rumor. Is that redundant?

What's next - vaccines cause retardation? Smoke detectors are government spying devices?

What we know, we don't believe and what we don't know, we believe.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

I'm buying more organic now that I can afford it. My guess is that it's higher quality food produced more ethically than GM, but in truth I don't know. You have all these claims and counter claims. Chances are that all of the claims for and against have a kernel of truth without telling the whole story, and often overstated. Pros and cons. Black, white and shades of grey. I suspect I have some food allergies and it may be gluten and sugar ... it seems I clog up after eating processed foods, but I'll need to go on an elimination diet to find out what's going on.

Ultimately almost nobody knows much about this stuff, and the voices of those who do are lost amongst all the hot air. People don't like to say they don't know something so they plump for a side that sits most comfortably with their political ideals, and then they have fierce arguments with other people who don't have a clue either. I'm not a scientist so I don't have the ability to parse all the info with any confidence. In that situation, I fall back on my old hippie ideals - peace & lurve, peace & lurve ...

So it's organic for me all the way, baybee! Some of it tastes better, some tastes the same. People say organic is overpriced BS but my guess is they know as much about organic growing as they do about GM, ie. enough to form an opinion, but not enough to form a valid opinion.

I am convinced that 99.99% of the participants in political debates know diddly about the subject matter. So I'm increasingly leaning towards the George Carlin approach - grab the popcorn and watch the show, which is preferable to despairing at our hubris, dishonesty and blinkered views. (I'd get GM popcorn, the organic stuff doesn't hit the spot - popcorn needs the salt and chemicals and stuff :)

Not dumping on people here, BTW. Just a general observation from reading news blogs.

// end blah
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

I think it's wise to raise awareness. This is not something that can be easily avoided. The fact that there are no labeling requirements, and is a self policed industry, that raises the biggest red flag imaginable, at least in my mind. Eating organic...what if the seeds are from genetically modified stock, but it is raised organically? I don't consider that any safer.

Sticking our heads in the sand, yea, that's what we should do. Everyone knows that the people in control of this issue care about us more than profit, so we shouldn't be in any peril at all.

DMC, eat up bro, get your fill.

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Old 09-28-2012, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Everyone knows that the people in control of this issue care about us more than profit, so we shouldn't be in any peril at all.
So ... if you can't trust either GM or organic then all you can do is grow your own, unless you're in an area with car and plane fumes, in which case you'll get your daily dose of toxins another way.

Thing is, people are living longer and, let's face it, that's not good news for the human race (although pretty good for individuals if they don't finish with that slow, ghastly decline). Our activities would be more sustainable if a few billion people keeled over from dodgy corn. Bring it on ;-)

Good luck with the awareness, Larry. When it comes to bringing our corporate masters to heel you might as well spit on the towering inferno. When it comes to food I think you can do worse than making sure you listen to our body. Seems to me that the biggest food-based danger western people face is too much of it, and too much fatty and sugary pretend-food - the culinary equivalent of Rebecca Black.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

So you're for GM food I take it? You're either for, against, or indifferent. Doesn't it piss you off? It pisses me off on many different levels. The fact that we don't have a whole lot of choice in the matter is really troubling to me.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

I guess "indifferent" is closest, Larry. As I said, I don't know enough to form an opinion but, in principle, I agree with any stance against the level of control multinationals have over governments.

Thing is, we have no real ethical codes in this society so it's survival of the fittest. Religion failed to bring us ethics because it got sidetracked on reproduction and sexual politics.

The rich have the power to get more for themselves and, without ethical constraints, they take the logical course. It's good business, right? Remember how the triple bottom line was all the rage - corporate responsibility to the community? The competitive pressure of globalisation put paid to that.

It's all too big to influence. For decades polls have shown that a vast majority of Australians are fiercely against rapid population growth without adding the infrastructure to handle it, which of course diminishes our lifestyles. Yet each year the numbers increase, the traffic jams get worse, the queues longer, property prices the highest in the world ... yet high immigration numbers have bipartisan support and increased massively under both major parties. It makes the GDP look good and companies love it because it keeps wages down and increases demand, and developers love it because it pushes prices up.

So, in a country of 22 mill the views of, say, 15 mill make no difference. We had a demonstration with a quarter of a million people against the Iraq Things have gone beyond the point where people can make a difference - unless the media wants it to happen and starts campaigns, of course. Little people can only influence little things.
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Last edited by Anon La Ply; 09-28-2012 at 03:42 AM. Reason: Larry, sorry about late edit - long phone call while editing
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I'm buying more organic now that I can afford it. My guess is that it's higher quality food produced more ethically than GM, but in truth I don't know. You have all these claims and counter claims. Chances are that all of the claims for and against have a kernel of truth without telling the whole story, and often overstated. Pros and cons. Black, white and shades of grey. I suspect I have some food allergies and it may be gluten and sugar ... it seems I clog up after eating processed foods, but I'll need to go on an elimination diet to find out what's going on.

Ultimately almost nobody knows much about this stuff, and the voices of those who do are lost amongst all the hot air. People don't like to say they don't know something so they plump for a side that sits most comfortably with their political ideals, and then they have fierce arguments with other people who don't have a clue either. I'm not a scientist so I don't have the ability to parse all the info with any confidence. In that situation, I fall back on my old hippie ideals - peace & lurve, peace & lurve ...

So it's organic for me all the way, baybee! Some of it tastes better, some tastes the same. People say organic is overpriced BS but my guess is they know as much about organic growing as they do about GM, ie. enough to form an opinion, but not enough to form a valid opinion.

I am convinced that 99.99% of the participants in political debates know diddly about the subject matter. So I'm increasingly leaning towards the George Carlin approach - grab the popcorn and watch the show, which is preferable to despairing at our hubris, dishonesty and blinkered views. (I'd get GM popcorn, the organic stuff doesn't hit the spot - popcorn needs the salt and chemicals and stuff :)

Not dumping on people here, BTW. Just a general observation from reading news blogs.

// end blah
You hit on a lot of points I agree with here on subjects like this (and pretty much everything political, too).

Bottom line for me on this subject (and many others): I don't know.

That's the truth. There is so much bullshit to sort through, so many agendas, influence from special interest groups and reactionary responses ranging from panic all the way to apathy. It's really hard to separate the truth from the hysteria and partisan politics.

I wouldn't say I'm apathetic about it. I just don't have the time to work it all out. Between working a full-time job, family, paying the bills and trying to smooth out my flam drags, I'm never going to get to the objective "truth" about most issues.

I used to be pretty obsessive about nutrition and fitness. I haven't been, of late, mostly because of the demands of the job. Now that my work hours are a bit more sane than they've been over the past few years, I intend to get back on the straight and narrow.

When it comes to determining what's healthy, I go with my gut (no pun intended) and try to make healthy choices based on the cursory information I have. I've started paying more attention where I buy my food from. I grow vegetables in my own organic garden. I buy from local farmers who I know well enough to trust. That said, I do everything in moderation. I like the occasional coney island (sorry, Grea).

I don't inherently trust businesses to police themselves. That would be naive. But that goes for all kinds of businesses, not just the ones that produce food. Trying to keep track of all of it takes more time than I have.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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That said, I do everything in moderation ...

I don't inherently trust businesses to police themselves. That would be naive. But that goes for all kinds of businesses, not just the ones that produce food. Trying to keep track of all of it takes more time than I have.
Agree about moderation. Use and abuse. Alcohol, prescription drugs and over the counter pharmaceuticals, fatty food, sugar, red meat ... all these things are proven to kill you (or at least cause significant harm) if you overdo it, but are fine and dandy if used to best advantage.

I didn't include nicotine in that list because it's so addictive only a very small minority of smokers are capable of using rather than abusing (due to the level of the CYP2A6 enzyme produced by a gene that most people have - and then you get those clowns who make out they're the bees' knees because they quit cold turkey - "It was easy!", but that's another story :)

I like the idea of this: http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/ne...les-for-eating

Whenever you see a major industry that's self regulated you know they're too powerful for the government to touch. Naturally they will put themselves first, while claiming all their measures are win-win.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

I do believe there is evidence to support the claim that GMO's aren't as healthy. I buy organic, local, fair-trade, etc. almost always. I am mostly gluten, corn, and dairy free due to allergies.
Though I don't use it too much, I know http://www.naturalnews.com/ is a great site with plenty of input on the issue.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

I knew it. We're all going to die. Game over, man.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Yay, collective paranoia about something 99.9% of people don't understand.

GM doesn't bother me at all as a concept, just like it doesn't bother me that we've ben genetically modifying food since the dawn of farming (through selective breeding, crossbreeding, etc). We're doing it directly on a genetic level now, but it's all still about messing with genes to produce a desired outcome.

If someone has actual evidence (peer reviewed research) that proves that some GM foods are dangerous, by all means present it, and I'll stay away from those foods in the future. However, I'm not buying into internet rumours about a huge and completely undefined range of commonly consumed products.


Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Notice the rise in gluten free menu's lately? That's because the GM wheat is affecting more people with a propensity towards gluten intolerance.
What is your source here?

I'm not trying to come off as knowing better than anyone else here. I'm not a geneticist or scientist. I'm not making the claim that all GM foods are automatically great; I'm just saying that I trust evidence and science over rumours and paranoia. Every discussion I've seen about these things has always been a bunch of claims without a single source (by which I mean actual scientific sources, not articles on random websites).

There might very well be GM foods out there which are harmful (just like there are loads of natural foods out there that are harmful), but even that doesn't mean that all GM food is bad. Just like anything else, there are thousands and thousands of varieties, made through just as many different methods. There is just absolutely zero chance that they will all be harmful.

OK, this turned into a long post, so I'll just leave it with this: Definitely do your research and definitely cut out anything that you feel suspicious about or that tests have shown to be harmful. Just don't blindly buy into paranoia or conspiracy theories, and please don't help spread them. Make informed opinions, and once you have actual sources to cite you can start spreading those news and have them carry much more weight.

If you want to scare people away from certain foods, how about warning them about the well-documented dangers of things like transfats, corn syrup and processed sugar? How about alcohol? How about the simple fact that almost everyone in the western worlds eats way too much unhealthy food in general? A fatty burger with a bowl of fries and large milkshake can be 100% organic and still clog up your arteries.

Later!
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Definitely do your research and definitely cut out anything that you feel suspicious about or that tests have shown to be harmful.
I'm with you on your general thrust here. Indeed, some of my earlier post echos yours, but I will offer one indisputable truth about GM crops, & that's the danger that cross pollination on a large enough scale will all but eradicate non GM crops, therefore diminishing the potential for backtracking if things don't work out well. The USA has already passed this tipping point in some crop categories.

Of course, all that is music to the big producer's ears (excuse the corn pun), as it tightens their control of the seed source. A farmer can't produce his own seeds from crops already grown from licensed GM seed, & there lies the issue for me - control of a staple element necessary for life itself. Would you allow water to be licensed? I know that's an extreme analogy, but we're getting into the same realm.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I'm with you on your general thrust here. Indeed, some of my earlier post echos yours, but I will offer one indisputable truth about GM crops, & that's the danger that cross pollination on a large enough scale will all but eradicate non GM crops, therefore diminishing the potential for backtracking if things don't work out well. The USA has already passed this tipping point in some crop categories.

Of course, all that is music to the big producer's ears (excuse the corn pun), as it tightens their control of the seed source. A farmer can't produce his own seeds from crops already grown from licensed GM seed, & there lies the issue for me - control of a staple element necessary for life itself. Would you allow water to be licensed? I know that's an extreme analogy, but we're getting into the same realm.
Yeah, I will fully admit that I was purely speaking purely in terms of GM crops being harmful or not, and the lack of presented evidence. I was not taking into account the sort of "real world" issues that you're mentioning. As with most things, this becomes an extremely complicated issue once it moves into real world scenarios, so I didn't even want to get into that side of things (since I have nowhere near enough knowledge about it to discuss it).
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Yeah, I will fully admit that I was purely speaking purely in terms of GM crops being harmful or not, and the lack of presented evidence. I was not taking into account the sort of "real world" issues that you're mentioning. As with most things, this becomes an extremely complicated issue once it moves into real world scenarios, so I didn't even want to get into that side of things (since I have nowhere near enough knowledge about it to discuss it).
Quite correct. They simply haven't been around long enough for a conclusion to be drawn, so any evidence, irrespective of source, is more informed probability conjecture than reliable fact. What bugs me is the utter lack of importance attached to the release of such a radical change of pace & potential mutation into the eco system. If we were talking about a new drug, then the duty of care/monitoring/testing & regulation protocols are pretty tight. In the US, the FDA would be crawling all over it. To me, it's lamentable that the US authorities are happy to use their general population as lab rats. Danger or no resultant danger, it's the bastardised principals that irk.

In the UK, there have been some limited GM crop trials. I've no issue with testing stuff out that may have benefits, but it needs time, & lots of it. These trial areas were significantly detached/screened from adjacent fields due to the PROVEN issues surrounding both physical transfer & wind bourn contamination.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Is anyone here familiar with the Ray Bradbury short story, A Sound Of Thunder?

Any paranoia I have about the unintended consequences of man messing with cloning, genetics and even regional species predator/prey introduction is rooted in that book. Like Upton Sinclair's The Jungle (speaking of food), it left quite an impression on me as a young person.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Scares the crap outta me. The FDA allows multinationals like Monsanto, who are one of the companies that are genetically modifying the food supply, to police themselves! Their stance is, "Oh yea, if you want to experiment with the food supply, on unsuspecting people, hey, we can't see any possible harm in that".

That is insanity. There's not even any labeling requirements. They can give us whatever they want.

The only way I know around it is to hunt the game behind my house and eat the wild vegetation, not really too feasible. You can't grow your own, the seeds you buy are modified. So many things we already consume are already modified, wheat being a prime example. Notice the rise in gluten free menu's lately? That's because the GM wheat is affecting more people with a propensity towards gluten intolerance. My own wife dropped gluten from her diet and she is looking and acting way healthier. I understand Europe is pulling GMO of their shelves. I dearly hope market forces prevail and stops the insanity. I don't know any way around this, as the food supply is managed by only a few companies.

I was curious as to what the international community thinks about this frightening subject. It negatively affects the health of each and every one of us in a major way.
I call it raw, unhindered capitalism. That's what the USA does best.

Honey bees collect the pollen from flowers of these plants, then can't find their way home. This may be the catalyst for the impending Zombie Apocalypse. Ya never know.
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/nm/st...lose-their-way
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post

What is your source here?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&b...IIHn0QGxp4CIDw

Here's a quick google search, plenty of stuff to read. GM wheat is fairly new to the world diet, historically speaking. Isn't it curious that gluten intolerance is on the rise all of a sudden? It just wasn't an issue a decade ago. GM wheat has more gluten, among other "improvements". It used to be a 4 foot tall plant, now wheat is about 2 feet tall with a larger seed head. And they are not shipping it to feed the hungry, those people are still starving.

There are a lot of issues out there, but this one...Unless I live off the land, I am forced to be their guinea pigs. That upsets me to no end. I have no idea what foods they are messing with because they don't have to disclose anything. If that isn't upsetting, I don't know what is. All I want to do is to raise awareness. A lot of people just don't know what they are doing to their food. I find it hard to be apathetic on this issue.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Ya the food supply is pretty critical, and like many things, we don't know "what they're doing" all the time all that well. There are some options - buy organic, but local (100 mile diet), grow your own food (not possible for everybody).

But GMO for feeding the poor? Feeding the world? Forget it. Even if Monsanto turned into a charity, there will always be poor starving people.

Gotta take the good with the bad. There are some great scientific interventions in foods, not all of them Monsanto's.
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  #23  
Old 09-28-2012, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

This is one of many links from a credible organization with a long history.These are scientists with no agenda or shareholders to answer to.

http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agric...improving.html

"Don't worry people Monsanto knows what's best for you. Just keep on buying our products and making us billions of dollars. Our former employees are now part of your government and have your best interests at heart. We love you...". F that.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Well after Dec 21st, we won't have to worry about. LOL!
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:38 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is online now
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Pffft. There is no (reliable) evidence anywhere of any kind that GMOs are in any way harmful. It's all just Internet rumor. Is that redundant?

What's next - vaccines cause retardation? Smoke detectors are government spying devices?

What we know, we don't believe and what we don't know, we believe.

Right,and smoking ciragettes along with using asbestos in building materials wasn't unhealthy....till it was.

The corporations who made these things had to be forced into putting warning labels on their products.Their own internal memos disclosed the fact that they KNEW their products were hazadrous,and in some cases deadly.

These facts were disclosed in many Federal,and state Supreme courts over the last 30 years.These weren't internet rumors.

If in FACT,there is no harm in consuming GMO,why not label the food for just what it is,and let the comsumer decide,and not the corporation,just who eats their food.

I for one want to know what I'm eating,and that decision is up to ME,rumor or not.Label the friggin food,period

Steve B
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  #26  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

I'm glad we can have a quasi-political discussion here that's level headed and reasonable without getting too worked up with rhetoric and nonsensical claims. Go us.

To the topic at hand. It does upset me that a few powerful individuals are taking advantage of mankind's oldest industry. Agriculture is too important for our survival as a species to be corrupted by big business. That story about Monsanto suing the neighboring farmer because of cross pollination makes me not want to live on this plant anymore. Seriously, grow up.

However, I'd like to point out that we've been eating genetically modified plants and animals for decades via selective breeding. Seedless fruit is the most obvious example. But chickens are bred to lay bigger eggs and grow bigger; strawberry are bred to grow bigger; roses are bred to have specific color patterns, size, and for the strength of their small; lobsters.. tomatoes.. crab.. garlic.... Lord knows what we've done with the cow population... What Monsanto and other guys have started doing is just a more sophisticated version of that. Same result, different technique.

I'm choosing not to be afraid of GM food. Billions of people have eaten/ingested way worse and were possibly more successful and lived happier, fuller lives than I will. I just don't want to worry about it. Anyone who lived through the 60s-70s can probably attest that that time was pretty much a world wide chemistry experiment on the majority of the population, haha. Our bodies are more resilient then we think they are sometimes.

Maybe I'm the "ignorant is bliss" route on this issue, but food is food. Whether you go out to eat at Olive Garden or Taco Bell, you are eating food from an unknown source all the time. Rather than being fearful of it, I'll just embrace it and taste.

"Do you know what they do to those Chickens?!?!?
No, but its delicious."

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  #27  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Quote:
...we've (collectively) been modifying all our food through selection for decades
Decades?! Try millennia! Since humans began farming some 10 000 years ago we’ve been modifying crops.

Quote:
... I'm hearing bad bad stories...I also read stories...I heard stories...I heard a story...
Yes, but “stories” aren’t solid evidence. They’re not studies. They’re not peer-reviewed. They’re just hearsay. Don’t fall for the baseless scare tactics.

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Pffft. There is no (reliable) evidence anywhere of any kind that GMOs are in any way harmful.
+1 to that.

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I'm buying more organic now that I can afford it. My guess is that it's higher quality food
“Organic” just means the farmers aren’t using pesticides. The quality of the produce is therefore lower, because there’s more critters hiding on your e.g. lettuce leaves. It’s a great idea to reduce pesticides, but wash that organic produce well!

Quote:
...genetically modified...eat up bro, get your fill.

Lemmings.
I’d say there’s a pretty good argument saying that people blindly mistrusting GMO are more lemming-like.

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I don't know enough to form an opinion
Good on ya!

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
There is so much bullshit to sort through, so many agendas, influence from special interest groups and reactionary responses ranging from panic all the way to apathy. It's really hard to separate the truth from the hysteria
Right.

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I don't inherently trust businesses to police themselves. That would be naive.
+1 again.

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
I'm just saying that I trust evidence and science over rumours and paranoia.
And another one worth repeating. I was getting worried for a moment over the plethora of one-sided unsupported opinions.

Last edited by Anduin; 09-28-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
Yeah, I will fully admit that I was purely speaking purely in terms of GM crops being harmful or not, and the lack of presented evidence. I was not taking into account the sort of "real world" issues that you're mentioning. As with most things, this becomes an extremely complicated issue once it moves into real world scenarios, so I didn't even want to get into that side of things (since I have nowhere near enough knowledge about it to discuss it).
The real world issues are valid. While GMOs may not be harmful to eat, what are they doing to help the hungry eat? Is it a good idea to let so few corporations control world food supply? Could they interfere with natural pollination? There's not a lot of money in feeding starving people, but there is more money to be made in feeding well-fed people, so that's what the corporations focus on.

The problems are starvation are social and political, not technological. I think we had the technology to wipe out hunger 100 years ago.
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

A new medical study examined the long-term effects of Monsanto's Roundup herbicide and Roundup-resistant GMO corn and has found that rats exposed to even the smallest amounts of Roundup, developed mammary tumors and severe liver and kidney damage as early as four months in males and seven months for females, Linda reported. She spoke with Stacy Malkan, a GMO specialist who is working for the passage of Proposition 37 in California, which would make it mandatory to label genetically engineered fish, crops and foods, and to clearly separate them in supermarkets and grocery stores from foods that are not genetically engineered. More.

source
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:13 AM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

The number of people unaware of Thalidomide and its general acceptance in the 1950's amazes me.

Being cautious is wise...

Being accepting by default is foolish.
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  #31  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

...

Arent people living longer, healthier ? And we all know that we are what we eat.

....

Last edited by aydee; 09-29-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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  #32  
Old 09-29-2012, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

I see more sickly old people than healthy old people it seems. There are more prescriptions written than ever. Yes we are living longer, but in a healthier state? Not sure. Doesn't look like it from where I'm sitting. I'm running into some very smart people who are taking their health into their own hands. Myself I'm convinced that prescription drugs and the FDA are not good for my health. The internet is a goldmine of info for those who seek it out. I am running into so many people who are cutting gluten from their diet, all with good results, amazing even. For instance, one of my electrical customers, she has that disease where it looks like the pigment in the skin is missing in blotches. Well she cut gluten out completely and her pigment is starting to return. Anyone who has gastrointestinal issues...cut gluten from your diet and tell me you don't feel better. What you put in your mouth has the biggest effect on your health more than anything else.

I only bring this up because it affects everyone and I think it's really important. I feel we are being slowly poisoned. I don't want that for me and mine, not one bit.
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  #33  
Old 09-29-2012, 09:40 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I see more sickly old people than healthy old people it seems. There are more prescriptions written than ever. Yes we are living longer, but in a healthier state? Not sure. Doesn't look like it from where I'm sitting. I'm running into some very smart people who are taking their health into their own hands. Myself I'm convinced that prescription drugs and the FDA are not good for my health. The internet is a goldmine of info for those who seek it out. I am running into so many people who are cutting gluten from their diet, all with good results, amazing even. For instance, one of my electrical customers, she has that disease where it looks like the pigment in the skin is missing in blotches. Well she cut gluten out completely and her pigment is starting to retu.rn. Anyone who has gastrointestinal issues...cut gluten from your diet and tell me you don't feel better. What you put in your mouth has the biggest effect on your health more than anything else.

I only bring this up because it affects everyone and I think it's really important. I feel we are being slowly poisoned. I don't want that for me and mine, not one bit.
Larry, I think we are sicklier because we are living longer. Life expectancy of the planet has more than doubled in the last century. Western civiliazation ( including Japan & Australia ) has the highest country wise statistics with an 80+ average. It therefore seems wealth = living longer.( sorry, musicians ). This theory pretty much pans out if you look at the statistics, country wise.

The flip side of course is the pharmacutical & food business lobbies find a way to play research & legal games with agencies likee thFDA, and eventually get away with stuff sometimes.

...
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  #34  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:44 PM
bigbang bigbang is offline
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jq4DGEn9Is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GZck...feature=relmfu


Parts 1 and 2 of Penn and Tellers investigation on Organic foods.
Sort of an insight on Organic foods for dummies.
NSFW or CHILDREN

They also did an episode on modified foods but I can't find it.
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  #35  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
The internet is a goldmine of info for those who seek it out.

.
The internet unfortunately is also a haven for some very mis-guided and malicious people who spew false information for their own agenda.
They prey and remain alive upon gullible people.
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  #36  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
The number of people unaware of Thalidomide and its general acceptance in the 1950's amazes me.

Being cautious is wise...

Being accepting by default is foolish.
Yes, I remember the story about this stuff. It was a pill to calm the morning sicknes that a woman gets from a pregnancy, if I'm not mistaken. Kids were being born malformed and genetically altered, like flippers instead of arms, etc.
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

Agreed, the internet is a double edge sword, but there is good info there too. One has to utilize one's intelligence to sort the genetically modified wheat from the chaff. I think it's in peoples best interest to learn as much as possible on this issue, after all, there's a strong chance that you are consuming these "designer" foods.
I don't trust mankind to get something like this right the first time. I don't trust multi-national corporations to do right by my health. All they want is my money. If I don't know what I'm eating, then I'm to blame too.

I've cut wheat out, but that's just the tip of the genetically modified iceburg lettuce.
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Agreed, the internet is a double edge sword, but there is good info there too. One has to utilize one's intelligence to sort the genetically modified wheat from the chaff.
True. People poopoo web info far too much - it's a treasure trove.

The hard part is prioritising the info. Each subject matter expert promotes the importance of their subject, usually overstating both positives and negatives. So I take the adjectives with a grain of (sea) salt and focus on the nouns and verbs.
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  #39  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

I guess that's where critical thinking would come into play.
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:43 PM
bigbang bigbang is offline
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Default Re: Genetically modified food

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Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
A new medical study examined the long-term effects of Monsanto's Roundup herbicide and Roundup-resistant GMO corn and has found that rats exposed to even the smallest amounts of Roundup, developed mammary tumors and severe liver and kidney damage as early as four months in males and seven months for females, Linda reported. She spoke with Stacy Malkan, a GMO specialist who is working for the passage of Proposition 37 in California, which would make it mandatory to label genetically engineered fish, crops and foods, and to clearly separate them in supermarkets and grocery stores from foods that are not genetically engineered. More.

source
I did read this study...and the study released shortly afterward discrediting most of the facts presented. In fact I believe some of the people involved are being investigated for mis-leading and manipulation of data.
I'll see if I can find the link.
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