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  #1  
Old 08-30-2012, 04:25 AM
wildbill wildbill is offline
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Default I've Admitted Defeat

Gave up and slapped some Evans Hydraulics on my 10" and 12" Stage Custom Toms.

Don't know if I got a wonky set or what, but I haven't been happy with the sound of those mounted toms - the 10" in particular.
Tried the stock heads, pinstripes, Evans G2's and control rings, in all combinations.
Got hydraulics over pinstripes now, and while they're a bit dead sounding compared to before, I think I can live with them.

The bass drum, floor tom, and snare all sound good to me, with just one change to the snare and FT heads, but the mounted toms (10" mostly) had a wonky ring that just couldn't be tuned out.
Bearing edges look good, I tightened all the lug screws, tried different positions on the mounting rods, checked for out of round, and so on.

I posted here when I first got them that I couldn't believe how bright, ringy and dissonant they were.

What's strange too, is that I also got the Yamaha Stage Custom Bop set, and everything sounds just right on those without any changes at all, except for tuning. The toms are an inch shorter, but it's hard to believe that's the cause.

So, you SC owners, what do you think? Did I get a wonky tom, or has my hearing just been acclimated to darker sounding drums? The set I had the longest before this one had 13" and 14" mounted toms and a 16" floor tom. Maybe that had something to do with it. Not used to that dinky 10" tom sound - ha ha.
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  #2  
Old 08-30-2012, 06:24 AM
sciomako sciomako is offline
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Default Re: I've Admitted Defeat

Not sure what sound you are after.

But I can speak as a new Yamaha CS birch owner and as a person who went from knowing nothing in drum tuning to knowing a little bit within 2 weeks. I used to play on my church's Premier Maple kit. I recently bought a Yamaha CS to practice in my garage. So you see, I went from big venue + maple (warm) -> tiny space + birch (bright). It took me many trial-and-errors to find the right combination to make the toms sound good. (I'm still working on the snare.)

And I think I know what you mean by the wonky ringing from the 10". That YCS 10" was really hard to tune. Here are what I learned:

- YCS is not very forgiving if the lugs are not in tune. When one lug is slightly out of tune, the 10" tom produces beating hums. I have never experienced this on the Premier Maple. It took me many many hours to discover this. One night, the wonky ring suddenly disappeared from 10" tom after I tweaked one single lug by probably 1/16th of a turn.

- The 10" produced a lot overtones until I tuned the top head up to certain point. The thing I'm not certain here is whether it's because of the tonal relationship between the top and bottom heads or it's because the shell sounds better at certain pitch range. (I'm too chicken to change anything now to experience.)

- I started with coated G2 over the stock bottom head. The overtones were still too strong. I ended up with coated G2 over the stock top head. It is now just right. I think the stock top head is similar to a G1 clear. So, I believe a heavier head on the reso side helps to control the overtones.

- I have the bottom tuned a few semi-tones higher than the top. I read that if you have both heads tuned to the same pitch you will get more resonance, which is not what you want.

Hope it helps.
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  #3  
Old 08-30-2012, 02:48 PM
wildbill wildbill is offline
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Default Re: I've Admitted Defeat

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciomako View Post

Not sure what sound you are after.....

Thanks for the input.

What I'm after is a good, solid, pronounced fundamental without a lot of dissonant overtones.
I'm not concerned with how long that sound rings out. I prefer a bit of a sustained lower ring, but only if it's pleasing to the ear (and each person's 'pleasing' is most likely different.)
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:10 PM
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harryconway harryconway is offline
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Default Re: I've Admitted Defeat

Hey, you know what you like. That's all that matters. For me, your combo would be waaaaay to dead. But if it's the sound you like/want, you're the only vote that really counts.
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:06 PM
wildbill wildbill is offline
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Default Re: I've Admitted Defeat

I've got the tone now, but not the sustain. About 2 seconds on the 10" and about 4 on the 12" (from strike till silence).

Too short, but maybe I'll mess around with the resonant heads again.
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2012, 05:19 PM
boltzmann's brain boltzmann's brain is offline
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Default Re: I've Admitted Defeat

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post

I posted here when I first got them that I couldn't believe how bright, ringy and dissonant they were.

.
that's good! try ambassadors top and bottom, and tune them very carefully. bright, ringy, dissonant= major potential!
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  #7  
Old 09-02-2012, 01:17 AM
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Winston_Wolf Winston_Wolf is offline
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Default Re: I've Admitted Defeat

If the issue is dissonance, that is a head tension/tuning issue. While that could be caused by some unevenness in the bearing edge, it most likely is being caused by tuning problems.

I'd suggest going back to the stock (one-ply clear) head and really focusing on getting the head perfectly tuned. Heavier heads dampen the higher overtones that really help hear how in-tune the head is with itself.

Smaller toms are more affected by tuning inconsistency, but the care and time invested on getting the one drum sounding its best will not only improve the most problematic drum first, but those techniques will help get the rest of the drums sounding better too.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:39 PM
wy yung wy yung is offline
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Default Re: I've Admitted Defeat

Quote:

So, you SC owners, what do you think? Did I get a wonky tom, or has my hearing just been acclimated to darker sounding drums? The set I had the longest before this one had 13" and 14" mounted toms and a 16" floor tom. Maybe that had somethingo to do with it. Not used to that dinky 10" tom sound - ha ha.

Is your tom round? I have experienced a new Recording custom tom out of round.
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