First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

[longgun]

wow...those are some gorgeous drums.....any plans on sending any kits across the pond to America?

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by longgun

wow...those are some gorgeous drums.....any plans on sending any kits across the pond to America?

Thank you, & yes, our next build after the show kits is for a USA customer. As for general distribution in the USA, we'll have to see what interest we get. As with all markets, we're concerned about the professionalism of the sales environment in a chosen store, & also their margin expectations. As we currently don't have USA distribution, we're more than happy to deal directly with customers. It's early days in our journey with the Origin series, but we already supply a small but constant number of drums into the USA.

[Davo-London]

Andy well done.

I can't wait to give these a go at the London Drum Show.

Cheers
Davo

[Toolate]

What's it going to cost me?

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Toolate

What's it going to cost me?

Prices aren't set yet, especially via retail, as we currently sell only direct to the customer. We have done our initial calculations however, & as you can imagine, they ain't cheap. Once we're set up with retail/store partners, we expect pricing through them to be similar to Craviotto, even though the production cost of these drums is close to double that of our own standard steam bent drums (our equivalent of Craviotto). Prior to then, we can discuss direct supply to customers at significantly below those price levels. If you look up Craviotto street prices, you'll get some idea of the bass line values. Sorry it's a bit vague, but we're working through this now. Please PM me with sizes & I'll be happy to cut a pre market price for you:)

Originally Posted by Davo-London

Andy well done.

I can't wait to give these a go at the London Drum Show.

Cheers
Davo

Looking forward to meeting up again Davo. What day are you planning on coming down? I'm hopeful of a few more DW forum guys getting together this year. I know Henri & Duncan are confirmed, hopefully Ben & a few others too. I'll put a call out a few weeks before the show :)

[Bo Eder]

Do you guys do pearl wraps?



I kid....I kid.....

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Bo Eder

Do you guys do pearl wraps?



I kid....I kid.....

Wow, two expletives in one sentence :)

[keep it simple]

All packed up & heading out on the drive for our first press review & photo's. Back tomorrow night. Scary to think that a first review has the power to make or break us. What if they simply aren't his style of drums? I have to admit, I'm on a knife edge :(

Wish me luck guys!

[Mad About Drums]

Break a leg Andy, I'm with you the whole way, I feel stressed, anxious and excited :)

[BacteriumFendYoke]

Good luck Andy! I'm sure it will all go well. You guys make some really great drums.

[flurbs]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

...Scary to think that a first review has the power to make or break us. What if they simply aren't his style of drums? I have to admit, I'm on a knife edge :(

Wish me luck guys!

Who's doing the review, Andy?

[tard]

Im sure he will be impressed no matter who he is, although he may want a bass drum tom holder installed for convenience sake...lol,lol,lol

[larryace]

Anyone who isn't impressed by these drums would either have to be a competitor or incredibly dull.

This is where the stick meets the head Andy. I just cannot foresee anything negative happening.

[toddmc]

Those aren't drums (they're a work of art)- simply amazing....
Any vids of someone playing this beauty?

[RobertM]

Beautiful work, Andy & Dean! Inspiring to see creative work being done!

[Bad Tempered Clavier]

That is not a drum kit. That is The Platonic Form of Drum Kit. Any other "drum kits" are imperfect representations of this ideal. Kudos.

[keep it simple]

Thank you for your kind wishes & comments guys. As always, your support is greatly appreciated :)

Here follows a fairly detailed description of my day:

After an overnight stay, got to the venue around 9:30 as appointed. Met up with the editor, assistant editor, & photographer from Drummer magazine. All three are really nice guys, I was made to feel most welcome. They were doing a photo shoot & review of several products, not just the Guru kit. The day started with a photo shoot, & took up the morning session.

In the afternoon, the assistant editor tested a budget kit. It was actually very good, considering the price. The acoustics could hardly have been worse. This was a temporary venue, essentially a big local hall. Hard surfaces & reflections everywhere. Not exactly the ideal place to test drums that accentuate tone, as attack was dominant. Anyhow, in some ways, good to see if the kit would shine in such an environment. the Origin kit was first tested by the assistant editor. A very tasty player indeed :) He immediately wanted to buy it :) Then the editor tested the kit. Now he is an even more tasty player, & someone with vast experience in drum testing. We started with an ultra low tuning. Kit sounded big & full. We then very crudely moved through a huge tuning range, including stupid tensions. Zero attention to correct tuning, just cranking batter & reso in opposite directions then together across the range. The editor was shocked at the tuning headroom, & especially impressed with how forgiving the drums were of poor tuning skills. No matter how high he took the tensions, he couldn't get it to choke. We had a very positive discussion at the end of the session, & I duly packed up the kit & drove home.

Although the reviewer was positive, he was keeping his cards close to his chest. He did say he was very impressed, but beyond that, I'm left guessing. I will get a bullet point list of technical description to check for accuracy, but beyond that, I'm waiting for the magazine publishing date like everyone else. It's the show edition, so I think it's out at the end of next month. I do know we're getting a 3 page spread, so that's pretty generous. I just hope it's positive :)

P.S. sorry about my shockingly out of focus shot below. It's the only one I got, as my camera didn't have a flash card installed, for reasons that I don't understand. I'm blaming the kids!!

[The Old Hyde]

Andy I hope it went as well as it sounds. I'm sure they wouldt mask their distaste for a kit so getting a good vibe from them is probably their honest feelings for your kit/work. Fingers crossed for you on the review!!!!

[BacteriumFendYoke]

That's just great to hear Andy. It all sounds very positive. I'll definitely be picking up that issue (even though I'm not a regular 'Drummer' buyer) so that I can show interested parties what you're up to! I couldn't be happier for you. I know how stoked you've been about this project for so long and I'm glad that things seem to be moving forward well.

[keep it simple]

Thanks guys :) I promise I'll post a copy of the review here, warts 'n' all.

[Mad About Drums]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

...He immediately wanted to buy it :)

The assitant editor's comment says a lot about the Origin serie, isn't it, from your comment earlier in the thread re: the bass drum test at your rehearsal place, it sounded very positive indeed,(and the Spaun is not a bad kit by anyone standard), I'm glad it went well as far as testing the Guru's new line, at least they were impressed with the sound and the tuning abilities, it's a good vibe for the review, let's keep our fingers cross, but in any case it won't be a bad review, that's for sure. Incidentally, what's the snare with the kit Andy? Did you chose one that was specifically souding good for the testing? Did you had other snares?

Nevermind about the pic out of focus, the kit scream "play me, play me", absolutely gorgeous :)

Well done Andy, you must be relieved a bit now, it was a tough race to get the 1st Origin kit ready, but you delivered it , kudos to you and Dean...

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Mad About Drums

The assitant editor's comment says a lot about the Origin serie, isn't it, from your comment earlier in the thread re: the bass drum test at your rehearsal place, it sounded very positive indeed,(and the Spaun is not a bad kit by anyone standard), I'm glad it went well as far as testing the Guru's new line, at least they were impressed with the sound and the tuning abilities, it's a good vibe for the review, let's keep our fingers cross, but in any case it won't be a bad review, that's for sure. Incidentally, what's the snare with the kit Andy? Did you chose one that was specifically souding good for the testing? Did you had other snares?

Nevermind about the pic out of focus, the kit scream "play me, play me", absolutely gorgeous :)

Well done Andy, you must be relieved a bit now, it was a tough race to get the 1st Origin kit ready, but you delivered it , kudos to you and Dean...

Thanks Henri :)

I chose the snare (my personal ebony stave) based mainly on it's colour not clashing too much with the padauk of the kit. Not the best choice sonically, especially in that room, as it's so freakin' loud & cutting. That said, they want to review the snare as a separate entity sometime, as both players fell in love with it :)

[tard]

Why not build a snare the same as the drums?

[larryace]

This is too cool. Like watching a new drum concept traveling through the birth canal to emerge on the pages of Drummer Magazine.

The big question is....When you get 10,000 orders after the article hits....

A. Are you guys ready to handle that kind of production?

B. Can I get a job?

People will want this kit. At this point, it's all in the advertising. I mean a crap product could make a mint with the right advertising. When you have a great product, you have to have a great ad campaign, that educates people to the science behind the design. Given a great ad campaign, I cannot see how it can lose.

I mean the sound alone will probably be all the ad you need, but for those who cannot try them in person, that's who you have to win over. Which should be easy when you have a winning product.

[MikeM]

Wow, massively late to the party here, but jeez, those are seriously serious drums. Man, where to start ... beautiful and stunning. I love all the bare wood. One could really learn to hate traditional shell hardware after seeing those.

I'm surprised to see S-Hoops on there. I use them on both my snare batters, and love them, but haven't tried them on toms. Interesting choice. I was a little surprised at the gap between the inside edge of the hoop and the head, so I got the impression that these shells aren't slightly undersized like what Premier used to make. How does the shell outside diameter compare with what's typically seen on the market nowadays? About the same or slightly larger?

Can't wait to read about them in Drummer!

[mike d]

Holy Moses!!!
Those reek of true drum religion.
Well done!

[mike d]

The true test is "How do they sound?"
"In theory, reality and theory are the same. In reality, they are not".
I'd love to hear some sound clips. :)

[tard]

Originally Posted by mike d

The true test is "How do they sound?"
"In theory, reality and theory are the same. In reality, they are not".
I'd love to here some sound clips. :)

The prototypes sounded incredible and are told these sound even better. I know personally from owning a set of radials that just removing all the hardware and holes from the shells makes a huge difference in sound. Now add stave and steam bent shells instead of ply and well, WOW...lol

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by tard

I know personally from owning a set of radials that just removing all the hardware and holes from the shells makes a huge difference in sound.

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by mike d

The true test is "How do they sound?"

It's the only test :)

Originally Posted by tard

Why not build a snare the same as the drums?

It's in the works, c/w floating strainer :)

Originally Posted by MikeM

One could really learn to hate traditional shell hardware after seeing those.

:) :) :)

Originally Posted by MikeM

I'm surprised to see S-Hoops on there. I use them on both my snare batters, and love them, but haven't tried them on toms. Interesting choice. I was a little surprised at the gap between the inside edge of the hoop and the head, so I got the impression that these shells aren't slightly undersized like what Premier used to make. How does the shell outside diameter compare with what's typically seen on the market nowadays? About the same or slightly larger?

S hoops were specifically chosen to focus the sound more than triple flange, but not as much as die cast. Customers can order triple flange if they wish. This is the Performance range kit of the series. Designed to punch out acoustically, but also dial directly in when under mic's. The S hoops fit it's character perfectly, unless you want ultimate head sustain, then you go for triple flange.

Shells are only undersize by 2mm, but that's not relative to the bearing edge. The size of gap between the hoop rim & head is typically less on snares due to the higher head tensions.

Originally Posted by larryace

This is too cool. Like watching a new drum concept traveling through the birth canal to emerge on the pages of Drummer Magazine.

The big question is....When you get 10,000 orders after the article hits....

A. Are you guys ready to handle that kind of production?

Ready for those levels of production = no way, but that's not going to happen Larry. If I was being very generous, I'd estimate this drum series would only appeal to less than half of 1 percent of drum buyers, & only a few of them would actually buy. These are expensive drums by any measure. IMO, more than justifiably so. Think Craviotto money, & you're in the right range.

Originally Posted by larryace

B. Can I get a job?

If we get substantial US interest, I can't think of a better ambassador Larry :)

[The Old Hyde]

After a close look at those pictures i can see these are cheap keller shells with a fake wood wrap!!! hahaha Im just mad because I keep opening this thread to look at the damn pictures, I love these drums!!!!!!

[cdrums21]

It sounds as though the drum testers from the magazine were very impressed with the kit Andy. How could you not be? My jaw would have hit the floor! Did you notice them looking at each other and oogling like little school children when they played it? I know I would be :) If that kit was available right now, I would sell my DW's in a heartbeat and buy it. Everything about it is right up my alley.

A comment about the S-hoop and something that you may have already considered.... I had one on my snare for a while. I loved it, it sounded great and performed as advertised (they actually use my comment in their testimonials on their home page). The only down side to it was that it was difficult if not impossible to attach a clip on microphone to it (the ones that clip over the top of the rim and are pliable enough to bend and attach under the bottom of the rim). I am at the mercy of different sound companies at various gigs and sometimes the company uses those types of clip on mic's. That was a little bit of an issue every now and then. Have you thought about that at all or has anyone mentioned it before?

By the way, my name is Clint, just thought I'd personalize this post since I have been calling you Andy :)

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by cdrums21

A comment about the S-hoop
The only down side to it was that it was difficult if not impossible to attach a clip on microphone to it

Cheers Clint. Yes, I've considered that, & it actually causes me an issue with my personal kit. My new live kit will have triple flange hoops fitted for general gigging. partially for that reason, but partially because I want to release more of the open feel available from these drums. My new kit will be a custom version of the performance range (available to anyone). It's made of satinwood. Think of it as maple on steroids :)

Originally Posted by cdrums21

If that kit was available right now, I would sell my DW's in a heartbeat and buy it. Everything about it is right up my alley.

Pity you can't make the LDS :( Or if you really tried?

Originally Posted by The Old Hyde

After a close look at those pictures i can see these are cheap keller shells with a fake wood wrap!!! hahaha Im just mad because I keep opening this thread to look at the damn pictures, I love these drums!!!!!!

I'm a big fan of well crafted Keller shelled drums. My Spauns have served me well as a gigging kit, but I must admit, they're totally outclassed by Origin :)

[markdrum]

The word that comes to mind after gazing upon your masterpieces is "elegant". If James Bond had been a drummer he would have played a kit like this. They have a simplicity that only superior design and craftsmanship can pull off. I can't wait to hear sound files of these babies in action. I can't stop going to the beginning of the thread. Congratulations on such great work!

[cdrums21]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

Pity you can't make the LDS :(

It would be worth coming just to see and hear that kit. You're gonna blow everybody away with that offering, it's just too distinctive and innovative to be ignored.

[mikeyhanson]

Those drums look so good! I have GOT to try them!

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

Ok, here it is, for me, probably the most important thread I've ever put up here. These pictures are not of the production kit, but not far off. We attempted to fast track 2 kits for early press review, unfortunately, we failed, but we will be ready for our October London Drum Show launch. However, we did manage to get this pre production kit up to scratch for review. There will be changes in production, most noticeably chrome plating of the aluminium hardware (these are polished aluminium), & equal proportions to the bass drum external rerings. This is the performance range kit in the Origin series. Classic range & custom range currently in first production.

Spec's:

All padauk 6mm thick vertical grain stave, rim vented, & with padauk rerings. Natural buffed clear wax finish.

All hardware aluminium machined from solid, made in the UK, & bespoke to Origin series. M5 threads.

Hoop options available, but this model fitted with genuine "S" hoops as standard.

22" x 16" Guru signature padauk segmented hoops.
16" x 15"
14" x 13"
12" x 8"

The eagle eyed amongst you will notice no bolting or screws through the shell, not even bass drum spur or floor tom leg brackets, they're free from the shell too. This is the core design focus of the Origin series. Special RIMS mount lugs allow the toms to be lifted straight out of the mount, & offer improved isolation from traditional tension screw mounted rims & all other suspension mount designs.

This is me & Dean laid bare. It's our best shot, & it's taken every ounce of energy out of us. Literally thousands of hours A - B testing every tiny detail of the design. The best stuff is yet to come, but as I promised to everyone here, here's your early heads up. Thank you all so much for putting up with my design & features questions, you've helped much more than you think.

Andy & Dean.

Jaw-dropping great. These are the only drums I would trade my ironwood set for. What the Peavy Radials should have been. Wow, just wow. Incredible workmanship, stave construction, innovative function, the drums hit it on all cylinders.

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

Jaw-dropping great. These are the only drums I would trade my ironwood set for.
the drums hit it on all cylinders.

Wow, praise indeed :) For you to even contemplate a change from your beloved ironwood beauties, we must be doing something right :)

Originally Posted by markdrum

They have a simplicity that only superior design and craftsmanship can pull off.

That's a wonderful thing to say, thank you :)

Originally Posted by mikeyhanson

Those drums look so good! I have GOT to try them!

Yes you do Mikey. Come on over to the LDS in October. You know you want to ;) ;) ;)

Originally Posted by cdrums21

it's just too distinctive and innovative to be ignored.

I hope you're right Clint. If we've nailed this, innovation should take a back seat to the end result, & that's the sound!

[AJ3000]

Holy drumkit, batman!

That is just stunning. I'm now doing everything I can to shift the calendar to get to LDC purely for these drums. If they sound as good as they look, I may well be sold on these beauties. Hope to see you and Dean there.

Best of luck with this, god knows you guys deserve it!!!!!

[AJ3000]

Oh, FYI, I have just googled LDC to try and hook some tickets up, and Guru's big launch comes up as a direct link from google, right at the top. Props!!!!

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by AJ3000

Oh, FYI, I have just googled LDC to try and hook some tickets up, and Guru's big launch comes up as a direct link from google, right at the top. Props!!!!

Yes, I know, we're super pleased with that. It's been on the front page of the Google LDS search for the past month or so :)

Thank you too for your kind words, & We'd love to receive you at LDS. There's a good few other Drummerworld members coming out for this too, including Henri making the trip from France, so we're set for some good fun!

P.S. I just got the copy through of the technical details to accompany our review in Drummer magazine for me to check over. Although there's not any opinion content in the text, it does have hints of a positive vibe :) The suspense is killing me! At least it's good to know that this review is strictly independent of influence, but it's still our future hanging on the opinion of one man. That said, he's a very talented player + experienced reviewer, & I was certainly impressed with his attention to detail. I think it's good for us to get a real world straight opinion, as we're often too close to the action to be truly objective.