Opening and Closing Hi-Hat

[ChaosKyle]

Ok I've seen where people are playing drums that they repeatedly open and close the hi hat even though there not playing on it. What is this called and what exercises could I do to be able to learn this?

[SticksEasy]

There's no real name for it as far as I know, but it's a very proper and useful thing to master. I've been working on it myself for the last couple of years. The best place to start is with a good ole' 4/4 rock beat.

You play the 4/4 with your right hand on your ride cymbal. Then, on all 4 counts, you play the hi hats with your left foot.

The objective is to make your foot keep time around the kit as a natural metronome. It's also good for looking sharp. It makes you look more coordinated if you're playing a groove and you have the hi hats going.

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by SticksEasy

There's no real name for it as far as I know, but it's a very proper and useful thing to master. I've been working on it myself for the last couple of years. The best place to start is with a good ole' 4/4 rock beat.

You play the 4/4 with your right hand on your ride cymbal. Then, on all 4 counts, you play the hi hats with your left foot.

The objective is to make your foot keep time around the kit as a natural metronome. It's also good for looking sharp. It makes you look more coordinated if you're playing a groove and you have the hi hats going.

it's good for looking sharp?.......and......it makes you look more coordinated?

do you actually think about this kind of thing?

that is very strange to me if you do

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

it's good for looking sharp?.......and......it makes you look more coordinated?

do you actually think about this kind of thing?

that is very strange to me if you do

Those are perfectly valid reasons for wanting to keep the left foot going - but they should not be the only reasons, or the main reasons.

The main reason to keep time with the left foot is to anchor your playing. The left foot is the drumset of the drumset - it does for the drumset, what the drumset does for the rest of the band. It holds everything together.

I have played for nearly 30 years and I have always had the left foot playing half, quarter or eighth notes. I play heel-up when I am playing the hats and heel-down when I am playing the ride. By keeping the foot going, you also have a something in motion that you can play against and add into the mix with ssssips, barks, splashes and more. Playing heel-up ads more texture to hihat figures and is essential to good jazz triplets on the hat.
Later on, you can add in foot percussion like blocks and tambourines. The discipline needed to keep the left foot steady will improve your playing overall.

Plus, it looks really cool to keep your hats moving when you play.

[Longfuse]

General term is 'pedaled hi-hat'...at least I think that's what you are referring to.

According to his brother Ralph, Vic Berton invented the first pedaled device...claim is possibly dubious, but early 1920s is about right.

Historically, hi hats were always played with the foot. Playing them with sticks started in the late 1920s. I forget the guys name, but the drummer with Fletcher Henderson in the late 1920s (as well as Kaiser Marshall) was a real pioneer. The music isn't great, but you can hear the development of that typical Swing, hi-hat groove on late '20s Henderson sides. All that must have influenced Jo Jones (and others).

In Jazz and Blues, while playing ride or snare patterns, it's typical to play the left foot on 2 and 4, to accent the backbeat ('afterbeat' as it was known in the '20s). Later players started syncopating and doing all sorts of stuff.

Within the pop idiom, one thing you can do is play quarter notes on the downbeat with your stick, as well as pedaled hi-hat on the off-beats (or visa versa). It's another texture (also useful for playing up-tempo 8th note patterns as your hand isn't doing overtime).

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

Those are perfectly valid reasons for wanting to keep the left foot going

to you they are

to me that sounds silly

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

to you they are

to me that sounds silly

I think it is strange that you think it is strange that "people actually think about this kind of thing" (how something looks when you play it).

The visual aspect of music is one of the great things about live performance. Among other things, groups put on fireworks displays, comb their hair, wear flamboyant outfits, smear themselves with blood, put on tuxedos and refine visually stunning techniques all to make a memorable impression on the audience. Others just wear drab flannel and torn jeans and look depressed, and that's OK too.

It's really about the performance and creating something special for the audience. Music is the biggest part of that, followed by how musicians look and act and how the audience responds to that.

[SticksEasy]

Looking sharp was the very last reason for usefulness I listed. Did you skip over my entire post, just to pin-point the one part you disagree with?

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

I think it is strange that you think it is strange that "people actually think about this kind of thing" (how something looks when you play it).

The visual aspect of music is one of the great things about live performance. Among other things, groups put on fireworks displays, comb their hair, wear flamboyant outfits, smear themselves with blood, put on tuxedos and refine visually stunning techniques all to make a memorable impression on the audience. Others just wear drab flannel and torn jeans and look depressed, and that's OK too.

It's really about the performance and creating something special for the audience. Music is the biggest part of that, followed by how musicians look and act and how the audience responds to that.

go ahead and think using your hi hat with your foot makes you "look more coordinated"

have fun with that

it's amazingly silly to me

oh and thanks for the performance lesson that I didnt need.....

I have never watched a drummer play and said damn that guy is a great performer.....did you see his hi hat foot?.....he is so coordinated....unless maybe he it was Tony Williams, or Roy Haynes doing what they did with that piece of the instrument.....but they where hardly doing it to "look coordinated"

this is comedy to me

...don't let one mans opinion spoil the whole apple cart....just saying to me it is quite silly and never enhances any sort of performance

thats like saying.....did you see that guitar player nail that C chord.....damn he is a good performer

,,,,,and SticksEasy ...I mean no disrespect my brother.....none whatsoever....you are a cool ass cat and I like you.....I just disagree with those reasons for playing part of the instrument..

nothing more nothing less

be well my man

[drummerpig]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

The main reason to keep time with the left foot is to anchor your playing. The left foot is the drumset of the drumset - it does for the drumset, what the drumset does for the rest of the band. It holds everything together.

This. It's not only useful for keeping yourself in time, but it gives the other people you're playing with a reference point. When you get more experienced with this technique, you can use the hi hat to create polyrhythms, such as playing dotted eighths, triplets, etc. underneath a groove. It's an excellent texture that should definitely be explored and applied to your playing.

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

The main reason to keep time with the left foot is to anchor your playing. The left foot is the drumset of the drumset - it does for the drumset, what the drumset does for the rest of the band. It holds everything together.

this is not always the case

in a jazz situation that would be the ride cymbal ....and even then the players are just playing to the pulse that is in the room that was set in motion when the tune was counted off ....you are all riding the same wave

and why would a band need something to hold everything together?

beyond playing in a high school type situation where everything is on the brink of disaster there should be no need for the band to rely on anyones hi hat....thats ridiculous

if you need your hi hat to hold things together I suggest you concentrate on your inner pulse more

your hi hat should be more an additional voice than a time keeper

a dying art in todays day and age

[kc5tng]

When you say "they are not playing it", I take it you mean they are not hitting the hi-hat top cymbal with a stick- - - .

Consider this: If the hi-hat top cymbal is going up and down because the drummer is closing and opening the hi-hats with his foot - - - that is also consider "playing" the hi-hat because when the two hi-hat cymbals close, they make a sound and that sound is incorporated into the overall mix of the drums being played. If you want to know what its called, call it "playing the hi-hat with your foot.

Now, consider this; you are playing a double kick pedal and the pattern you are playing requires you to keep both feet on the kick pedals. Are you looking "co-ordinated" now??

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

go ahead and think using your hi hat with your foot makes you "look more coordinated"

have fun with that

it's amazingly silly to me

oh and thanks for the performance lesson that I didnt need.....

I have never watched a drummer play and said damn that guy is a great performer.....did you see his hi hat foot?.....he is so coordinated....unless maybe he it was Tony Williams, or Roy Haynes doing what they did with that piece of the instrument.....but they where hardly doing it to "look coordinated"

this is comedy to me

...don't let one mans opinion spoil the whole apple cart....just saying to me it is quite silly and never enhances any sort of performance

thats like saying.....did you see that guitar player nail that C chord.....damn he is a good performer

,,,,,and SticksEasy ...I mean no disrespect my brother.....none whatsoever....you are a cool ass cat and I like you.....I just disagree with those reasons for playing part of the instrument..

nothing more nothing less

be well my man

Whenever I see someone play who really makes a great impression on the audience, they typically have great technique. For myself and many others, this includes (but is not limited to) a drummer holding it all down with the left foot. This adds to the music in subtle way and also adds a level of challenge and sophistication. Someone who's smoking on all four limbs is definitely going to wow me more than someone who is smoking on two or three. If someone takes it to another level and uses the left foot for more than just timekeeping, that's just an added level of wow. This could be clave, playing the left foot in a different time or just holding a steady, unwavering pulse while everything else is becoming mindblowingly complex. To me, the left foot is as important as any other limb. If someone isn't incorporating their left foot well into their playing, I typically discount their skills and think less of them as a musician.

I am pleased you enjoyed my performance lesson for you and that this discussion makes you happy, thanks! I look forward to continuing the sharing of thoughts.

[SticksEasy]

I was always under the impression that your hi hat foot became a fail-safe. A reference to keep you in time when your fills try to go a little off the beaten path. I don't really do a lot of complex fills, but I try to make it a habit to keep time with my hi hat foot because it ehances the sound.

And in spite of whoever might think otherwise, I also think it ads to the appearance. It looks better for your left foot and hi hat to be going, rather than just sitting there keeping the pedal pressed to the floor.

That's probably what irritates me most about Metal drummers. So many of them just clamp their hats closed and turn the pedal away so it isn't in their way. I'm obsessed with hi-hats, so to see somebody not use them drives me nuts.

[Dr_Watso]

In these threads, I usually chime in and mention that I don't think it's a good thing to tie your sense of time to any one limb. For me, the goal in making music with drums is always to feel the time within me, it comes from the center of my person, and I can do in time fills with or without my left foot going. This gives me more freedom and doesn't make sure that all of my beats have an annoying sound going throughout them.

I saw a band over the weekend and the guy played literally every 1/4 or 1/8 note on his hats for absolutely every song. It was coming through the PA and was very distracting. Especially when they were playing well known covers without that sound in the recording.

There are some styles I would almost never play without the hats closing on a beat; jazz for example, I find that it sounds really great to have hats on 2 and 4 because typically the standard snare isn't on those beats. For things like groove rock, I often don't want to hear it, and things sound better if they're a bit more open and laid back. Even more often, there will be a beat that calls for steady notes played with the stick on the hats, and there can't be any washing of variance in the sound if it's going to sound right.

And above all else, if you're going to do it, make sure you can do it without constantly stopping and starting. Lots of times I see folks run the hats until they get to a hard fill or something, then they do the fill without the hats, and resume playing hats on the beat... What's the point of keeping time if you don't do it on the fills?

You should be able to do it, and you should be able to not do it. Don't make it a habit or tie your sense of time to a limb.

[Ashland]

Why wouldn't you want to be able to keep a pulse on the hi hat with your foot? Being able to doesn't mean you have to. However, I absolutely guarantee if you practice playing all your chops and fancy shenanigans over a foot pulse it will improve your independence from limb to limb and it will improve your ability to play with a consistent pulse. Playing to a song and realize you finish your fill a 16th note later than you intended? Play it over a hi hat pulse with a metronome. You'll actually be able to feel where you're going wrong.

Never shoot down a reason to learn something new. Even if it's a total BS reason. If I see a drummer play something cool, and then see him play the same thing to a hi hat quarter note, he will absolutely appear more coordinated. Doesn't mean he is. But it means that from what the viewer sees, there's a good chance when he's playing that same thing in the studio he's not going to mess it up when the click track is goin strong.

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Ashland

Why wouldn't you want to be able to keep a pulse on the hi hat with your foot? Being able to doesn't mean you have to. However, I absolutely guarantee if you practice playing all your chops and fancy shenanigans over a foot pulse it will improve your independence from limb to limb and it will improve your ability to play with a consistent pulse. Playing to a song and realize you finish your fill a 16th note later than you intended? Play it over a hi hat pulse with a metronome. You'll actually be able to feel where you're going wrong.

Never shoot down a reason to learn something new. Even if it's a total BS reason. If I see a drummer play something cool, and then see him play the same thing to a hi hat quarter note, he will absolutely appear more coordinated. Doesn't mean he is. But it means that from what the viewer sees, there's a good chance when he's playing that same thing in the studio he's not going to mess it up when the click track is goin strong.

Very well put. The problems of tying your pulse to one limb are greater than the problems of not tying your pulse to anything at all.

[opentune]

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso

I saw a band over the weekend and the guy played literally every 1/4 or 1/8 note on his hats for absolutely every song. It was coming through the PA and was very distracting. Especially when they were playing well known covers without that sound in the recording.


And above all else, if you're going to do it, make sure you can do it without constantly stopping and starting. Lots of times I see folks run the hats until they get to a hard fill or something, then they do the fill without the hats, and resume playing hats on the beat... What's the point of keeping time if you don't do it on the fills?

You should be able to do it, and you should be able to not do it. Don't make it a habit or tie your sense of time to a limb.

I agree with your first point. Don't do this if its not in or called for in the song. and indeed, the beat or time should be felt right in the center of your body, not just your left foot.

The second point? well, watch lots of John Bonham and many other drummers, who start and stop those hats through fills. Why not?

I think the point to make is for new drummers to get some grounding by keeping time on that left foot. It doesn't mean the whole band is staring at it, or that it ups the cool factor is essential, but it does provide a grounding, and it works limb independence.

And ya, I do think it looks totally cool.......

[Spreggy]

I never used to do it until a few years ago, and now I won't live without it. It adds an important dimension to your groove.

I've noticed that Benny Greb has taken it to a higher level, though probably not the first at it. He plays it for instance on the 8ths, so that it completely replaces playing the hat with your right hand, freeing that hand to play another rhythm on top of your standard groove. I've been toying with it, it's a great rhythmic idea. There are examples all over his dvd.

[drstrangefunk]

it's called "comping".

[Swiss Matthias]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

beyond playing in a high school type situation where everything is on the brink of disaster

that made me laugh :)

[wsabol]

Originally Posted by SticksEasy

.... because it ehances the sound.

I agree with Gvdadrummasum. Playing a time with your left foot doesn't make you "look" more coordinated, it just means you ARE more coordinated. Anyway, looking sharp and "looking" more coordinated are bogus reasons to do anything imo.

The reason people do that is either out of habit or my quote up there: because it enhances the sound. There should always be a sonic reason for every decision you make behind the kit. You should learn this technique so that when you're playing a song that needs quarter notes or something with the left foot while you ride, you can do that and bring the music to a new level.

[zazylaw]

I'm pretty new to trying to play the hi-hat consistently in this way, but just pick one of your favourite pages to practice (that obviously doesn't include the left foot ;-)), and do:

- quarter notes
- quarter notes on the off beats
- eighth notes

Going back to old exercises that I felt were "simple" now have a whole new feel and challenge to them, especially when the bass drum is doing eighth notes on the e's and ah's, but I'm trying to keep the hi-hat steady :-)

[double_G]

interesting discussion on this. i call 8th note hi-hat under a groove "pac-man".

my take was this was it was a required step on my drum-set journey: working quarters & eighths w/ every groove, fill. makes my time & fills that much more locked in w/ stronger time pulse (for the band to hear / feel). forced me to lay notes much more exact RE something like the steve smith fill from "separate ways". also helps when i am doing weird groupings around the kit & need a "metronome" to feel when things are resolving around bars / quarters.

interesting textures are a given, especially w/ splashes on 2 / 4. definitely a different vibe w/ quarters or more notey / linear feeling 8ths. jazz (ala Tony) sounds different quarters (way more intense) vs.2/4.

another deal for me was that this technique had to be mastered to play certain styles like Tower of Power funk or Blues shuffles, etc.

[double_G]

yeah RE "learn this technique so that when you playing a song that needs quarter notes with the left foot whiles you ride, you can do that and bring the music to a new level."

when i play quarters on the ride w/ RH & quarters on the &s w/ the HH, totally diff vibe / intensity. 8ths on ride w/ HH 8ths on Es & AHs also a weird / geeky vibe...almost unusable groove but cool exercise nonetheless.

Originally Posted by wsabol

I agree with Gvdadrummasum. Playing a time with your left foot doesn't make you "look" more coordinated, it just means you ARE more coordinated. Anyway, looking sharp and "looking" more coordinated are bogus reasons to do anything imo.

The reason people do that is either out of habit or my quote up there: because it enhances the sound. There should always be a sonic reason for every decision you make behind the kit. You should learn this technique so that when you playing a song that needs quarter notes with the left foot whiles you ride, you can do that and bring the music to a new level.

[Swiss Matthias]

Originally Posted by Spreggy

I've noticed that Benny Greb has taken it to a higher level, though probably not the first at it. He plays it for instance on the 8ths, so that it completely replaces playing the hat with your right hand, freeing that hand to play another rhythm on top of your standard groove. I've been toying with it, it's a great rhythmic idea. There are examples all over his dvd.

->Tony Williams!

[DPTrainor]

High Hat. I had the opportunity to play just the high hat as an instrument for 2 years (no other drums) Long story, but it is an instrument all in itself. Color, texture, patterns with foot in all subdivisions, sticking the same, degrees of open from sloshy to tight and everything between. Lifting toe in subtle movements. But, In terms of time keeping, yep keeping time with foot on high hat works really well in any subdivision that fits into the music. Whole, Half, Quarter, Eights. But ideally, it is cool to move the feeling of time pulse into your brain internally, rather than tie it to a limb like high hat or ride. But, if you lose the internal timing for the moment, it sure feels good to get the hat or ride going and drive back into the groove. No right or wrong. Feel the pulse. Play the hat as an instrument.

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by DPTrainor

High Hat. I had the opportunity to play just the high hat as an instrument for 2 years (no other drums) Long story, but it is an instrument all in itself. Color, texture, patterns with foot in all subdivisions, sticking the same, degrees of open from sloshy to tight and everything between. Lifting toe in subtle movements. But, In terms of time keeping, yep keeping time with foot on high hat works really well in any subdivision that fits into the music. Whole, Half, Quarter, Eights. But ideally, it is cool to move the feeling of time pulse into your brain internally, rather than tie it to a limb like high hat or ride. But, if you lose the internal timing for the moment, it sure feels good to get the hat or ride going and drive back into the groove. No right or wrong. Feel the pulse. Play the hat as an instrument.

The hihats make a great timekeeper, but there is so much more to them, as you point out. To really fully use them, it is necessary to locate your timekeeping somewhere else and start to use them as fully as you use snare, cymbal or bass drum. But when I'm not doing that with the hats, I use them just to keep time. Basically I am using them for something or other as much as any other limb.

[Piebe]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

By keeping the foot going, you also have a something in motion that you can play against and add into the mix with ssssips, barks, splashes and more. Playing heel-up ads more texture to hihat figures and is essential to good jazz triplets on the hat.

Why is heel up essential to good jazz triplets? As far as i am aware good jazz triplets are done on the cymbal where the left foot on the hi hat plays the two and four and which in my opinion can be done heel down. But perhaps you could link me to a video that shows what you mean, because it sounds interesting to me and i am always keen on taking notes from long time drummers. :)

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Piebe

Why is heel up essential to good jazz triplets? As far as i am aware good jazz triplets are done on the cymbal where the left foot on the hi hat plays the two and four and which in my opinion can be done heel down. But perhaps you could link me to a video that shows what you mean, because it sounds interesting to me and i am always keen on taking notes from long time drummers. :)

I should clarify. If you're playing jazz triplets on the hihat, then heel up is essential to get the ts-ts-shhhh triplet phrase. On the ride I do play heel up.