What would you say are the "essential" rudiments for grooves on the kit?

[BigDinSD]

After doing some research and reading other posts, I know there are a lot of rudiments. 40 I think I saw?

I know they are good for coordination and dexterity, but as previous posts have said - I'd like to be playing a song or groove and then insert them at free will. In other words, I don't want to have to think about them. Now, I probably wouldn't play your longer rudiments as a whole (not even sure how I could stick a triple paradiddle in a groove and have it sound funky or cool). But perhaps bits of a double, flam, paradiddle, single roll combo at times.

This is my 3rd year now after a 25 year break and I'd appreciate some good direction from you seasoned cats out there. What essential rudiments would you suggest that are really versatile and useful that can be used around the kit. I do about 30 minutes a day on rudiments as practice and don't want to master the entire 40 count library.

[Bo Eder]

Originally Posted by BigDinSD

After doing some research and reading other posts, I know there are a lot of rudiments. 40 I think I saw?

I know they are good for coordination and dexterity, but as previous posts have said - I'd like to be playing a song or groove and then insert them at free will. In other words, I don't want to have to think about them. Now, I probably wouldn't play your longer rudiments as a whole (not even sure how I could stick a triple paradiddle in a groove and have it sound funky or cool). But perhaps bits of a double, flam, paradiddle, single roll combo at times.

This is my 3rd year now after a 25 year break and I'd appreciate some good direction from you seasoned cats out there. What essential rudiments would you suggest that are really versatile and useful that can be used around the kit. I do about 30 minutes a day on rudiments as practice and don't want to master the entire 40 count library.

But at the rate you're going, 30 minutes a day, you might as well master the 40, don't ya' think? It couldn't hurt ;)

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by Bo Eder

But at the rate you're going, 30 minutes a day, you might as well master the 40, don't ya' think? It couldn't hurt ;)

agreed ......do the deed Sam Snead

learning and mastering a rudiment is not like memorizing a 32 bar solo or anything .....you could probably memorize the original 26 in one good day of practice

[JBoom]

Originally Posted by BigDinSD

After doing some research and reading other posts, I know there are a lot of rudiments. 40 I think I saw?

I know they are good for coordination and dexterity, but as previous posts have said - I'd like to be playing a song or groove and then insert them at free will. In other words, I don't want to have to think about them. Now, I probably wouldn't play your longer rudiments as a whole (not even sure how I could stick a triple paradiddle in a groove and have it sound funky or cool). But perhaps bits of a double, flam, paradiddle, single roll combo at times.

This is my 3rd year now after a 25 year break and I'd appreciate some good direction from you seasoned cats out there. What essential rudiments would you suggest that are really versatile and useful that can be used around the kit. I do about 30 minutes a day on rudiments as practice and don't want to master the entire 40 count library.

There are only 5 rudiments that I consider the "rudiments of rudiments." That is, they are each unique unto themselves and all others are just variations that build on them. They are: single stroke, double stroke, paradidle, flam, buzz roll. Paradiddle is questionable since it builds on double and single, but I put it there because it's the basic form in combining the two (the simplest hybrid) which is rudimentally important.

I also don't think rudiments exist to get around a kit or build grooves, even though they provide some cool tools to do so. More importantly, they provide a way to make different sounds on a drum, particularly the snare. I only mention that because I think it's something that the modern kit player forgets about one of the benefits of rudiments. That is, they make perfect sense even if all you ever play is a single drum.

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by JBoom

I also don't think rudiments exist to get around a kit

they don't exist to get around the kit.......but almost every rudiment will sound great getting around the kit when applied creatively and tastefully ..... particularly rudiments like the 6 stroke roll and ratamacue

you have to think outside the box

take a ratamacue and turn it inside out with the accent first ....put that accent on the kick and you have the famous Steve Gadd lick

there are whole books dedicated to applying rudiments to the kit

guys like Philly Joe and Steve Gadd made a living playing very rudimentally around the kit

[JBoom]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

they don't exist to get around the kit.......but almost every rudiment will sound great getting around the kit when applied creatively and tastefully ..... particularly rudiments like the 6 stroke roll and ratamacue

you have to think outside the box

take a ratamacue and turn it inside out with the accent first ....put that accent on the kick and you have the famous Steve Gadd lick

there are whole books dedicated to applying rudiments to the kit

guys like Philly Joe and Steve Gadd made a living playing very rudimentally around the kit

That's why I followed up that statement with "even though they provide some cool tools to do so." :)

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by JBoom

That's why I followed up that statement with "even though they provide some cool tools to do so." :)

gotcha...............

;)

[drumhead61]

Originally Posted by BigDinSD

After doing some research and reading other posts, I know there are a lot of rudiments. 40 I think I saw?

I know they are good for coordination and dexterity, but as previous posts have said - I'd like to be playing a song or groove and then insert them at free will. In other words, I don't want to have to think about them. Now, I probably wouldn't play your longer rudiments as a whole (not even sure how I could stick a triple paradiddle in a groove and have it sound funky or cool). But perhaps bits of a double, flam, paradiddle, single roll combo at times.

This is my 3rd year now after a 25 year break and I'd appreciate some good direction from you seasoned cats out there. What essential rudiments would you suggest that are really versatile and useful that can be used around the kit. I do about 30 minutes a day on rudiments as practice and don't want to master the entire 40 count library.

Hey, if you are putting in 30 a day Im with BO go for it and begin to master...I ahve this mouse pad called, "The Rudi-Pad" and it has the Standard 26 American Drum Rudiments...I am not familiar of the other 14 you put out there? Where did you get that info? I have not heard of 40 and am more curious than anything.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

"Essential." As in absolute necessity? As in can't possibly do without? That would simply be a single stroke roll. Lets be honest here, if you can't play RLRLRLRL, you can't play....period.

But I'm of the school that thinks there is great benefit to all of them. They provide excellent hand training.....even if I'll never use 'Lesson 25' or a triple ratamacue on a drum kit.

Originally Posted by drumhead61

I am not familiar of the other 14 you put out there? Where did you get that info? I have not heard of 40 and am more curious than anything.

From PAS evidently. I never knew there were 40 until I joined this site either.

Here they are: http://www.vicfirth.com/education/rudiments.php

[BigDinSD]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

agreed ......do the deed Sam Snead

learning and mastering a rudiment is not like memorizing a 32 bar solo or anything .....you could probably memorize the original 26 in one good day of practice

Originally Posted by Bo Eder

But at the rate you're going, 30 minutes a day, you might as well master the 40, don't ya' think? It couldn't hurt ;)

Originally Posted by drumhead61

Hey, if you are putting in 30 a day Im with BO go for it and begin to master...I ahve this mouse pad called, "The Rudi-Pad" and it has the Standard 26 American Drum Rudiments...I am not familiar of the other 14 you put out there? Where did you get that info? I have not heard of 40 and am more curious than anything.

MAN!...you guys always give the best encouragement...love the challenge. I'll probably master about a half dozen for now... (...smiling as he takes a deep breath...)

[BigDinSD]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

they don't exist to get around the kit.......but almost every rudiment will sound great getting around the kit when applied creatively and tastefully ..... particularly rudiments like the 6 stroke roll and ratamacue

you have to think outside the box

take a ratamacue and turn it inside out with the accent first ....put that accent on the kick and you have the famous Steve Gadd lick

there are whole books dedicated to applying rudiments to the kit

guys like Philly Joe and Steve Gadd made a living playing very rudimentally around the kit

Dayamn. I just got distracted and found the Steve Gadd lick...I'll have to count that as a rudiment now!

[BigDinSD]

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold

"Essential." As in absolute necessity? As in can't possibly do without? That would simply be a single stroke roll. Lets be honest here, if you can't play RLRLRLRL, you can't play....period.

But I'm of the school that thinks there is great benefit to all of them. They provide excellent hand training.....even if I'll never use 'Lesson 25' or a triple ratamacue on a drum kit.

Off to a good start then :-)

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by BigDinSD

Dayamn. I just got distracted and found the Steve Gadd lick...I'll have to count that as a rudiment now!

it is a rudiment my man....

see Steve break it down here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py0FdS-e960

everything he plays here is a version of either a 6 stroke roll, a ratamacue, or a single stroke four......all basic rudiments

[drumhead61]

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold

"Essential." As in absolute necessity? As in can't possibly do without? That would simply be a single stroke roll. Lets be honest here, if you can't play RLRLRLRL, you can't play....period.

But I'm of the school that thinks there is great benefit to all of them. They provide excellent hand training.....even if I'll never use 'Lesson 25' or a triple ratamacue on a drum kit.



From PAS evidently. I never knew there were 40 until I joined this site either.

Here they are: http://www.vicfirth.com/education/rudiments.php

Thanks Pocket...and I was on vicfirth.com earlier today! Not looking for the 40 RUDI's but there ya go!!!! So variations on some of the strokes...thats good stuff!

[BigDinSD]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

it is a rudiment my man....

see Steve break it down here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py0FdS-e960

everything he plays here is a version of either a 6 stroke roll, a ratamacue, or a single stroke four......all basic rudiments

Thanks bro - I like the variation onto the toms...