All About D-Beat

[Largactyl]

Warning: Long post!

D-Beat is a rather small and limited subgenre of punk I've nonetheless become rather infatuated with for the last few months. It gets its name from the beat the drummer plays (the whole song for virtually every song on any given album), which is just the beat from, oh, let's say...Mickey, played at faster, often downright ludicrous speeds. So, to count it in four/four for simplicity's sake (up to speed it is much more economical to count in cut time): bass drum on one, snare on two, bass on 'and' of two, bass on 'and' of three, snare on four. It's something I'm sure every one of you on here has played at some point before, but in this particular genre it has been taken to new and more physically demanding levels since it began with Discharge around 1982.

Here's an example track, Meanwhile, from Discharge's 1982 LP Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing, with Terry "Tezz" Roberts on drums. The production on the album unfortunately makes it hard to hear the bass drum so it's probably not the best example of the style, but I include it because this LP is essentially what started the genre.

Here's a track called När Ska Ni Fatta from Skitsystem's 1995 EP Profithysteri, with Adrian Erlandsson (older brother of Daniel) on drums. For some reason Swedes in particular really took this style and ran with it. What I've noticed with Erlandsson is that even though Skitsystem plays faster in general than the other bands I listen to, he is more likely to hit the hi-hat on all four beats of the bar (as opposed to just playing the hats in sync with the snare on the two and four, which helps save energy at high speeds).

Here's another Swedish band, Anti-Cimex, with Braincell Battle, the first track off of 1993's Scandinavian Jawbreaker. I believe the drummer at this point was still Charlie Claeson.

As a more contemporary example, here is The Day After from the band Tragedy out of Tennessee. It appears on the 2003 LP Vengeance. Their drummer is Paul Burdette.

I'll put one more on here: English band Doom was only around in their original incarnation for a couple of years in the late 80's but had a pretty big impact. This is Drowning in the Mainstream, originally recorded in 1988 for the War Crimes LP but re-recorded in 1995 for the double LP Fuck Peaceville. This is the second version, as the production on the War Crimes album is awful enough to be essentially unlistenable. I believe the drummer, simply known as "Stick", was on both recordings, however. He has a much looser feel than pretty much any other drummer I've heard in the genre.

Some other bands: Driller Killer, Disfear, Martyrdöd, Totalitär (all four of which are also Swedish!), Behind Enemy Lines and Wolfpack/Wolfbrigade.

Anyway, what I'm really wondering is if any of you have ever spent a significant amount of time really dissecting this beat or perhaps actually played in a D-Beat band. I've developed a couple of tricks of my own to help keep the speed up but I'm sure there are other tricks common to many drummers in the genre that I don't know about.

I'm still working on getting my rimshots consistent when playing the backbeat (I actually play trad exclusively, which I know is quite unusual for punk styles). With the bass drum, since the second hit (the 'and' of two) is the least important of the three (in fact I've heard that some drummers leave it out entirely at certain speeds), I play it heel-down while the other two I play heel-up, making it essentially a modified version of constant-release/heel-toe (honestly after much googling I've yet to find a significant difference between these two techniques) in which, at least at slow speeds, I'm holding my leg up in the air during count three, which feels rather awkward at low speeds but presents no issue at higher speeds. I do this because I'm assuming it uses less energy than doing heel-up for all three hits, but maintains the power of heel-up where it is most essential. The main drawback I've found is that it is pretty easy for my foot to get confused and drift off the beat, although obviously the problem is going away with practice.

With all this going on, there is a certain amount of freedom as far as the right hand goes. The easiest to play up to speed is to simply play the hats exactly in sync with the snare, just on the two and four. I'm also practicing doing it on all four beats, like Erlandsson, but I can't go nearly as fast with that obviously. My main issue is keeping all four hits at the same dynamic, because otherwise I'm used to alternating accented and unaccented strokes in other styles of music. A third pattern I've heard used, especially with the crash cymbal, sounds almost polymetric when played fast enough, even though it isn't actually polymetric. It consists of three strokes: one on one (in sync with the bass drum), one on the 'and' of two (in sync with the bass drum again), and one on the four (in sync with the snare). The result almost sounds like triplets (half note triplets if you're thinking in four/four) over the straight four beat at higher speeds. I think ultimately I would like to get to a point where I can play whatever I want with the right hand over the beat but these three are the main ones for the time being.

I realize I'm probably overthinking this simple beat, but I'm hopelessly addicted and was hoping to find some kindred spirits here who may have further tips for me. This isn't all I'm working on (I'm also still working through the Alan Dawson jazz book, as Tony Williams is an all-time favorite of mine) but I haven't seen a lot of discussion on this particular beat.

[Bretton]

It's a beat I've used, having been in a couple Thrash bands. I was never sure what the "genre" of d-beat meant, it couldn't possibly just mean punk where all they play is that one beat... but it is... so... I'm'a call bull**** on d-beat being a "genre" and say it's just a beat used prevalently in punk.

On the subject of only hitting the hats on the snare, the only metal band I've known to do that is Evile, and I'm not a fan of doing so. I think if anything, the ride-item should be on the downbeat, but I guess to each their own.

So in terms of the kick drum what's going on is:

proper d-beat:
dotted-eighth eighth, dotted-eighth
x---x---x---x---
----S-------S---
B-----B---B-----

variation you mentioned near the end:
dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, eighth.
x---x---x---x---
----S-------S---
B-----B-----B--

You could theoretically also get an actual quarter note triplet going on instead, which would be somewhere between the two, and this might allow you to attain higher speeds, and would in fact be a polyrhythm. If you can get it going right, your foot will just be going at a constant tempo, which you should be able to get faster, and should also open up the possibility of using a double pedal to get it twice as fast after that.
x--x--x--x--
---S-----S--
B---B---B---

I would then have the ride-item on the quarter note downbeats offset from the snare once I got it too fast to be able to put the ride-item on all the eighths, and it would turn into a 4 over 3 polyrhythmic traditional blast beat.
x-----x-----
---S-----S--
B---B---B---

and just now, that gives me another idea, throw in the herta-triplet foot pattern from Meshuggah's "Bleed" and voila, "bleed-blast" where still the only unison hit is the ride-item and the kick on the first downbeat, almost a linear pattern.
x-----x-----
---S-----S--
B-B-B---B---



now... to think of d-beat variations for different time signatures and other polyrhythms...

[Largactyl]

Originally Posted by Bretton

It's a beat I've used, having been in a couple Thrash bands. I was never sure what the "genre" of d-beat meant, it couldn't possibly just mean punk where all they play is that one beat... but it is... so... I'm'a call bull**** on d-beat being a "genre" and say it's just a beat used prevalently in punk.

Well I'm not looking to get in a debate over what constitutes a genre; think of it more as shorthand to refer to a handful of punk bands that use this beat on a virtually exclusive basis, if that helps.

On the subject of only hitting the hats on the snare, the only metal band I've known to do that is Evile, and I'm not a fan of doing so. I think if anything, the ride-item should be on the downbeat, but I guess to each their own.

Of the drummers I listed, I believe Stick was the most free as far as the ride-item parts go. Based on my own playing, once you get to a certain speed and keep the hats at least semi-open it doesn't actually seem to make an appreciable difference.

proper d-beat:
dotted-eighth eighth, dotted-eighth
x---x---x---x---
----S-------S---
B-----B---B-----

Yes, thank you. I was trying to figure out a way to embed musical notation in a post, but, failing that, completely forgot that I could simply do it like this.

variation you mentioned near the end:
dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, eighth.
x---x---x---x---
----S-------S---
B-----B-----B--

Almost. The dotted-eighth-dotted-eighth-eighth pattern was applied to the ride-item though, the bass and snare stay the same:

x-----x-----x---
----S-------S---
B-----B---B-----

You could theoretically also get an actual quarter note triplet going on instead, which would be somewhere between the two, and this might allow you to attain higher speeds, and would in fact be a polyrhythm. If you can get it going right, your foot will just be going at a constant tempo, which you should be able to get faster, and should also open up the possibility of using a double pedal to get it twice as fast after that.
x--x--x--x--
---S-----S--
B---B---B---

I would then have the ride-item on the quarter note downbeats offset from the snare once I got it too fast to be able to put the ride-item on all the eighths, and it would turn into a 4 over 3 polyrhythmic traditional blast beat.
x-----x-----
---S-----S--
B---B---B---

and just now, that gives me another idea, throw in the herta-triplet foot pattern from Meshuggah's "Bleed" and voila, "bleed-blast" where still the only unison hit is the ride-item and the kick on the first downbeat, almost a linear pattern.
x-----x-----
---S-----S--
B-B-B---B---



now... to think of d-beat variations for different time signatures and other polyrhythms...

Wow, I have some practicing to do. I wonder if any advanced drummers have explored any of this. I only know that the bands I'm listening to, while being numerous things, could never be accused of being "experimental"...

[PDL]

It was never a genre at the time, but now looking back people can slot bands into 'D beat' and create a genre. Remember we are talking about Anarcho (Anarchist) Punk bands that came out of England during the 80's when Punks were very opposed to the Thatcher government, opposed to the System and Multi national corporations, D beat didn't exist as a genre then and for them bands to even think so would have been against their whole ideals, these were very political bands.

As for playing it, just practice the 2nd part until you've have it, make sure your hi hat work is bang on and the bass will come. Then slot the first part and second part together. Don't over think it, it's very basic and was played by bands that didn't come from a musical back ground at all.

Since the 80's punk has fractured into a million pieces we have Grind, Crust, Hardcore, Cross over, Thrash, D beat, Oi, Ska/Punk etc the list is endless. Learn it and move on, I'd spend more time learning how to hold sticks properly and nailing 2 or 3 rudiments.

[mikeyhanson]

Originally Posted by Bretton

proper d-beat:
dotted-eighth eighth, dotted-eighth
x---x---x---x---
----S-------S---
B-----B---B-----

My favorite of the D beats. Once you get it to a particular tempo and groove, it practically plays itself.
Tezz would sometimes drop that second kick, especially when he was rushing it ["and children, and children" and "possibility of life's destruction"].
I think it's really easy to play on either side of the middle of that beat as well.

[Talismanis]

My advice? Stop thinking about it and play what feels good to you. That's what punk music is.

[Largactyl]

Originally Posted by PDL

Since the 80's punk has fractured into a million pieces we have Grind, Crust, Hardcore, Cross over, Thrash, D beat, Oi, Ska/Punk etc the list is endless. Learn it and move on, I'd spend more time learning how to hold sticks properly and nailing 2 or 3 rudiments.

By starting this thread I don't mean to imply that this is all I'm working on. At the moment I spend much more time on John Ramsay's Alan Dawson book and Future Sounds by David Garibaldi. I spend maybe ten to twenty minutes a day on this beat, if even that. I just think every once in a while it's interesting to really take apart a certain beat, even a simple one, to find out why I find it so compelling.

Originally Posted by mikeyhanson

My favorite of the D beats. Once you get it to a particular tempo and groove, it practically plays itself.

Yeah I was surprised at the jump in speed I experienced once I got the basic coordination down. In fact I'm almost finding it harder to dial it back once I get warmed up. It's like I can only play it really slow or really fast with nothing in between.

Tezz would sometimes drop that second kick, especially when he was rushing it ["and children, and children" and "possibility of life's destruction"].
I think it's really easy to play on either side of the middle of that beat as well.

It's interesting how little is lost when that hit is dropped. I myself keep it but I admit I probably don't have to.

[mikeyhanson]

Originally Posted by Largactyl

Yeah I was surprised at the jump in speed I experienced once I got the basic coordination down. In fact I'm almost finding it harder to dial it back once I get warmed up. It's like I can only play it really slow or really fast with nothing in between.

Well, then you've kind of arrived at D Beat. Since the genre it has essentially stripped itself down to that beat, once you have it....you have it.
What's interesting is when you start to venture outside of the D Beat by looking at what was going on musically when that started. Discharge, GBH, Varukers, Exploited....all UK bands playing with roughly the same beat, although not the "officially licensed D-Beat™". There were also quite a few bands playing it in the US, although it was definitely different in style and feel than what was being played in the UK at the time. It was happening all around. Sweden, Finland, Italy, Spain....just about anywhere you could buy a leather jacket, someone was playing that punk beat.
Played with a tighter hi-hat and D Beat's got a west coast 80's hardcore feel. Played way on the backbeat and it sounds like Don Bolles from the Germs, which goes back even earlier. Even Misfits rode that train. You can hear it in Minor Threat, MDC, early Poison Idea, Neurosis....so many bands either originated from there or used it heavily in their music. Heck....that beat got me three records, two US and two European tours, so I can't complain.

[BickDutt]

It's really a great beat and absolutely addictive. I'd like to be able to play it in the 200-210 bpm zone consistently and with power, but above 180 it becomes really difficult. I play standard 1234 hi-hat pattern, but with kinda inverted dynamics, tip for 1 and 3, shank for 2 and 4, so as to accent the snare and have both hands descent in the same movement.

One good method of getting the bass drum hits in their right place is to practice slowy with the above hihat pattern on the floor tom, as in sometimes heard in d-beat songs. Since 2nd and 3rd bass hits are offbeat, it creates constant 8ths between kick and low tom and at slow speeds it's easy to hear whether bass hits are in place or not.
I play the first bass hit up on the pedal, pull foot and hit lower on the pedal for the 2nd hit, then back up in the middle for the third; so it's a kind of slide that ends up on beat 1.

It is possible to play it very fast... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2jNQtEG18w
Although that becomes perhaps meaningless musically at such absurd speeds. I'd be fine with being able to play it consistently at 210bpm but even that seems very far away.

[mikeyhanson]

Originally Posted by BickDutt

It's really a great beat and absolutely addictive. I'd like to be able to play it in the 200-210 bpm zone consistently and with power, but above 180 it becomes really difficult.

I agree. Just for kicks I went and looked at the tempos of some of the songs in my punk band in the 80's, and we were playing at about 180 for the faster songs. I think that once you get beyond 180 it becomes difficult to work the swing of the kick drum into the rhythm. I've always found it's better to shift to a straighter beat when it gets going much faster than that.
The D Beat really works with a guitar riff that's essentially a full strum:
"Chang-alang, alang-a, chang-alang, alanga...."

[PDL]

Mike what band did you tour with, I bet I saw you

[mikeyhanson]

Originally Posted by PDL

Mike what band did you tour with, I bet I saw you

In the old days it was Capitol Punishment, then Fang, Hell's Kitchen, Plainfield, Freak Accident and now Hanson Brothers, the Nomeansno offshoot band.

[BickDutt]

Forgot to mention that amongst the old two-beat/train gospel beats, there's a kick drum pattern that is exactly that of the d-beat, albeit that pattern is only played on the second half of the measure. Those were church rhythms, and were chosen to put people in a trance. I'd say that d-beat does that pretty well.
Also, the swedish absolutely hate when people say that their bands play d-beat, since they call it kängpunk. And truly, they seem to be masters of their craft, can't say i've ever heard a nhon-swedish band play this beat with as much drive as Totalitär or Anti-Cimex.

As for practicing, I always put the metronome at half the value, it doesn't feel as fast and rushed at fast tempi this way. The same applies for grind blasts, it's easier to check your dynamics and consistency when you don't have a click barking at 200 in your ears, but only at 100.

[Largactyl]

Originally Posted by mikeyhanson

Well, then you've kind of arrived at D Beat. Since the genre it has essentially stripped itself down to that beat, once you have it....you have it.

Yeah come to think of it, I've never really heard a "mid-tempo" d-beat song.

What's interesting is when you start to venture outside of the D Beat by looking at what was going on musically when that started. Discharge, GBH, Varukers, Exploited....all UK bands playing with roughly the same beat, although not the "officially licensed D-Beat™". There were also quite a few bands playing it in the US, although it was definitely different in style and feel than what was being played in the UK at the time. It was happening all around. Sweden, Finland, Italy, Spain....just about anywhere you could buy a leather jacket, someone was playing that punk beat.

Honestly I didn't know it ever got quite that widespread. Seems almost exclusively an English/Swedish thing. Very cool.

Heck....that beat got me three records, two US and two European tours, so I can't complain.

One main reason I started this thread: to possibly get sage advice from someone who's actually walked the walk professionally!

Originally Posted by BickDutt

It's really a great beat and absolutely addictive. I'd like to be able to play it in the 200-210 bpm zone consistently and with power, but above 180 it becomes really difficult. I play standard 1234 hi-hat pattern, but with kinda inverted dynamics, tip for 1 and 3, shank for 2 and 4, so as to accent the snare and have both hands descent in the same movement.

One of the challenges I've found is getting my hand to not accent the one and three, since at higher speeds I'm used to starting with an accent on R&B and funk beats. It works great for those styles, but ends up sounding too choppy with the d-beat. At least when I play it...

One good method of getting the bass drum hits in their right place is to practice slowy with the above hihat pattern on the floor tom, as in sometimes heard in d-beat songs.

And once you get that clean it's one of those beats that sounds a lot more complicated than it is, which is always fun. Never realized how useful it is to keep your bass hits honest though.

I play the first bass hit up on the pedal, pull foot and hit lower on the pedal for the 2nd hit, then back up in the middle for the third; so it's a kind of slide that ends up on beat 1.

The slide technique is one I have yet to really understand, but the overall concept sounds very similar to what I'm doing with the modified constant-release thing, basically saving your energy on that second bass hit for the other two stronger ones.

It is possible to play it very fast... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2jNQtEG18w
Although that becomes perhaps meaningless musically at such absurd speeds. I'd be fine with being able to play it consistently at 210bpm but even that seems very far away.

It's fun to play it fast but yeah...combined with the poor sound quality that sounded more like a poorly executed blast beat than a well executed d-beat.

[Largactyl]

Originally Posted by BickDutt

Forgot to mention that amongst the old two-beat/train gospel beats, there's a kick drum pattern that is exactly that of the d-beat, albeit that pattern is only played on the second half of the measure. Those were church rhythms, and were chosen to put people in a trance. I'd say that d-beat does that pretty well.

That's unexpected. Do you have any examples of this, maybe on Youtube or something? That would be very intriguing.

Also, the swedish absolutely hate when people say that their bands play d-beat, since they call it kängpunk. And truly, they seem to be masters of their craft, can't say i've ever heard a nhon-swedish band play this beat with as much drive as Totalitär or Anti-Cimex.

Interesting. I've heard that at least Tompa, who founded Skitsystem, specifically referred to their music as 'd-beat' (although I don't know when or where he said that), but I've also heard the kängpunk term before. I suppose the Swedes may have been the ones that really combined other elements onto the d-beat framework, mostly from crust punk and even black metal. So maybe they have a case for naming their style something new. Ultimately it's all semantics though, right?

As for practicing, I always put the metronome at half the value, it doesn't feel as fast and rushed at fast tempi this way. The same applies for grind blasts, it's easier to check your dynamics and consistency when you don't have a click barking at 200 in your ears, but only at 100.

I definitely do that too; I was just using a straightfoward 4/4 measure to make it slightly easier to describe in words.

[mikeyhanson]

Originally Posted by Largactyl

Interesting. I've heard that at least Tompa, who founded Skitsystem, specifically referred to their music as 'd-beat' (although I don't know when or where he said that), but I've also heard the kängpunk term before. I suppose the Swedes may have been the ones that really combined other elements onto the d-beat framework, mostly from crust punk and even black metal. So maybe they have a case for naming their style something new. Ultimately it's all semantics though, right?

Yeah, when you get into all the genre sub-categories it gets a little confusing. I'm curious as to how important the genre classifications are going to be as the years go by. What's D Beat, Crust, etc. now, may be only known as punk rock in the years to come, and that would be okay by me. I think it would take a pretty magical band to make a name for themselves to an extent where they would be the new influence in D Beat. It would practically insist on it's own genre.

Originally Posted by Largactyl

One main reason I started this thread: to possibly get sage advice from someone who's actually walked the walk professionally!

Thanks, and nice of you to say, although WARNING: my "sage" advice is peppered with caveats. lol
But honestly, I've been pretty lucky. I think years of consistent playing and timing were a huge factor in being able to play punk music at a career level.

D Beat is everywhere. One of the biggest bands that plays D Beat often: Motorhead.

[PDL]

Quite an interesting OP re genre. I've been having some discussions with a friend, Sean, who promoted every UK hardcore band and every US band to pass through the UK and play in Wigan from mid 80 to mid 90s. Now we both remember Discharge very well as a friend of mine Dave Ellesmere (Bambi) played drums with Discharge in the very early 80's. Now me and Sean reckon D beat was first coined around 1986 ish as a genre, and he was certainly promoting it on gig flyers around 91 for the likes of Doom and other UK crust acts.

I played hardcore punk/cross over in a band called Decline, we toured Europe supporting 'Go!' from NYC in 1991 and then did a two month Europe tour with 'Hell No!' from NYC in 1992, we had a couple of records out but would never describe ourselves or Go or Hell No as D beat. We opended for Extreme Noise Terror at Liverpools Planer X and they differed to us very much even though we had similar drum patterns as at the time in the UK it was really only Crust punk expression instead of an actual dedicated rhythm to a genre if you get my drift.

Other bands we supported like NoFx (west coast HC) or Rorshach (NY Power violence) would use D beat but both in a different way, with different hi hat intones and throwing in different bass drum patterns also. The Crust type early instigators used D beat mostly to accompany D beat guitar chugging etc.

So what I am trying to say is in the late 80's if you were to say 'We are a D beat band' then people would assume - drunk, crusty, anarcho punk, but as Mike says most punk bands used D beat but didn't express themselves as a D beat band. Does that make sense?

[mikeyhanson]

Originally Posted by PDL

I've been having some discussions with a friend, Sean.....


So what I am trying to say is in the late 80's if you were to say 'We are a D beat band' then people would assume - drunk, crusty, anarcho punk, but as Mike says most punk bands used D beat but didn't express themselves as a D beat band. Does that make sense?

I know the UK is big...and this is probably a longshot.....Sean Forbes?

That's what I'm trying to say...most bands at the time wouldn't have called themselves D Beat. I think in this case, as with a lot of cases, the name came long after the genre itself had started.

[PDL]

Sean Forbes (Way Tyler) no It's not him but Sean F will know my mate Sean Shea (Wigan band promotor). In fact I've got a video of Sean Forbes in Green Days Xmas play they did in 91 in Wigan. He plays the Easter Bunny of all things.

[mikeyhanson]

Originally Posted by PDL

Sean Forbes (Way Tyler) no It's not him but Sean F will know my mate Sean Shea (Wigan band promotor). In fact I've got a video of Sean Forbes in Green Days Xmas play they did in 91 in Wigan. He plays the Easter Bunny of all things.

Yeah, he's a pretty funny dude. Have you seen his youtube record store guy thing? Pretty funny stuff. I don't know if I've met Sean Shea, but you never know....it's a smaller world than we think..