Wuhan cymbals

[bmeat]

hey guys. i currently have zbt cymbals, and i was wondering if the "cheaper" wuhan hi hats, crashes and ride sound better than a zbt or a sabian b8. yesterday i was comparing my newer model zbt to my buddies older model sabian b8 ride, and the zbt sounded much better

my buddy just got a drum kit so i can help him out by selling him my 14hats, 16 and 18 crash, and 20 ride for a cheap price, and pick myself up the wuhan traditional pack.

am i going to be dissapointed in going from the sound of the zbts to the wuhans? the zbts sound very nice, espeically the ride and the hats. the crashes sound a little bit too much like brass cymbals when crashed, and shimmer with an odd tone, but besides that, they are excellent cymbals for the price.

i called my local music stores and no one has any wuhans in stock, besides the chinas and splahses, so i cant have a listen anywhere. anyone that has heard the zbt and wuhans in person, please help me out!

also why is b20 cymbals more expensive when its more tin and less copper? isnt copper more expensive? so should B8 cymbals be better/more expensive than B20 cymbals? paiste seems to like the B8 material

[Aicdrummer]

The traditonals sound really good. Even though they seem like they would be cheap cymbals they have a great sound

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by Aicdrummer

The traditonals sound really good. Even though they seem like they would be cheap cymbals they have a great sound

thats the trend im hearing online, but how good? becuase the zbts are always being downplayed, when they sound pretty darn good (except for some gripes about crashing the crashes, and the 18" crashes bell the depth of the sound is just so thin and hollow. the smaller bells, and the ride bell sound awesome. a good kerplunk kind of water drop sound) i played sabians ride with a piece of stone in the center of it it sounded crazy, would love to own it

i wish there was somewhere i could go to hear them. anyone know for sure if the wuhans will sound nicer than the zbts? also why is a b20 cymbal "better" than a b8 cymbal, when b8 is a stronger, more expensive material?

[ZackLee]

I'm not sure about Wuhan crashes, rides, and hi-hats, but in my opinion, Wuhan splashes/chinas are better than Zildjian ZBT splashes/chinas.

[paistepower92]

Originally Posted by bmeat

thats the trend im hearing online, but how good? becuase the zbts are always being downplayed, when they sound pretty darn good (except for some gripes about crashing the crashes, and the 18" crashes bell) i played sabians ride with a piece of stone in the center of it it sounded crazy

i wish there was somewhere i could go to hear them. anyone know for sure if the wuhans will sound nicer than the zbts? also why is a b20 cymbal "better" than a b8 cymbal, when b8 is a stronger, more expensive material?

The B8 vs. B20 argument is subjective to the drummer. They are simply different sounds. I personally use cymbals both alloys on my kit. Also, I personally don't like the low end B8 cymbals, but love the high end B8s, like Paiste 2002s or Meinl MB8s. Both are good, but you need to try both out and see for yourself. Also, that Sabian ride you played, that wasn't a piece of stone, that was raw bronze, before its lathed.

[DrumEatDrum]

Originally Posted by bmeat

hey guys. i currently have zbt cymbals, and i was wondering if the "cheaper" wuhan hi hats, crashes and ride sound better than a zbt or a sabian b8.

Yes.

I bought a set of Wuhan's for my kid's drum set.

I've been known to borrow his 16" crash because it really sounds good.

The only downside is they are thin, so I wouldn't use them for hard rock or metal.
But for the price, they sound way, way way better then the zbt/b8 lines.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Originally Posted by bmeat

also why is a b20 cymbal "better" than a b8 cymbal, when b8 is a stronger, more expensive material?

Because not all B8 cymbals are created equal. Entry level B8 cymbals are cheap because they are manufactured to be so. It's not so much the alloy that determines the price, but the manufacturing process......tempering, hammering, lathing, man hours etc etc.

Simply put, a far more extensive process goes into creating a Zildjian A or K than what goes into making a Zildjian entry line. This then gets reflected back in the price. The more labour intensive, the higher the cost......regardless of the alloy.

[bmeat]

really! well maybe ill just get a pair then, and help my friend out at the same time.

the cymbals i have now are considered "pro"/medium thin. the wuhans are thinner?

anyone think a zht pack is a better choice than the wuhans?

[Mukund]

i have not heard the wuhan rides,crashes or hihats
so i cant tell you about them but zht would be a good deal
i heard them and they sound quite good

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by Mukund

i have not heard the wuhan rides,crashes or hihats
so i cant tell you about them but zht would be a good deal
i heard them and they sound quite good

yeah i was looking into the zhts, the xs20s (too expensive) the pst8 (cant find the pack anywhere) and the meinl classic customs (expensive)

what do you guys think between the pst5s and the wuhans?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMkVk3icgEs

if anyone wants to loan me $100 i can get the classics custom pack :)

[Winston_Wolf]

If you already have some lower-end cymbals, why are you looking to buy more lower-end cymbals? For the price you're going to spend on either the PST5's or Traditionals you could buy some used pro-level Zildjian or Sabians and get away from the budget cymbal sound entirely.

However, if you're really stuck on ust these two options, I'd listen carefully to the video you posted and make a decision based on which sound you like more. Even though the price of both lines are similar, it is clear they are worlds apart in sound, and the only person that can accurately judge which sound is right for you is you.

[SticksEasy]

I adore Wuhan's China cymbals. I've played B8 Pro by Sabian, and Zildjian's Oriental China cymbals. I only use China cymbals to play ride patterns when open hats don't have the "bang" factor I'm looking for..

The new traditional series (crashes, rides, etc.) are simply amazing. The big three's cheap lines can't touch these cymbals. They sound like cymbals from 60s and 70s. They have that classy tone to them. And as far as being thin, I have good friends who give the Wuhan cymbals a relentless bashing, and have no problems with them.

Then to boot, look at the price. You pay a fraction of the cost you'd pay for mid-level cymbals, and you get more cymbals that sound as good, if not better.

So if you really just don't want people thinking you play Wuhan, buy some adhesive remover from Wal Mart, and tell people they're old Zildjians... Little white lies never hurt anyone. :)

[bmeat]

i dont mind playing wuhans as long as they sound good and hold up.

i wouldnt buy pst5's, i would most likely either get wuhans, zhts, or if i splurge some classics customs.

i went to the store earlier, and they had some classic customs on display which sounded wonderful.

if i keep to my budget, i think ill get the wuhans or zhts

im sort of a newbie at this, and winston_wolf, you said its very clear which cymbals are better. which ones is that? all i know is the wuhans have a very nice oriental wash when crashed, and the pst5s sound very similar to my zbts

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Originally Posted by bmeat

i wouldnt buy pst5's, i would most likely either get wuhans, zhts, or if i splurge some classics customs.

Selling ZBT's to buy ZHT's = one giant leap sideways.

Waste of time and effort, not to mention money. May as well keep what you have, save up and bypass the entry level lines all together.

[Winston_Wolf]

Originally Posted by bmeat

im sort of a newbie at this, and winston_wolf, you said its very clear which cymbals are better. which ones is that? all i know is the wuhans have a very nice oriental wash when crashed, and the pst5s sound very similar to my zbts

Mmmmmm... I never said which ones are better, I said they're totally different and you need to judge which ones sound better to you.

One sounds clean, clear, and bright, one darker and trashy. Depending on the music I was playing I think either one could work, but again, there are drawbacks to the sound of both of them that could be avoided by getting higher quality cymbals.

[makinao]

What brands and lines are available in your local stores?

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by makinao

What brands and lines are available in your local stores?

mostly all of them, like the zildjian a, k, sabian hh aa, paiste alpha, 2002 but the only ones closer to my price range that they had were the xs20.

they didnt have the pst8 or the classics custom unfortunately :(

anyone else have opinions about the wuhans vs the pst5s?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMkVk3icgEs

im still wondering if the wuhans are better than the zhts. that would be crazy considering the price differences.

[DrumEatDrum]

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold

Selling ZBT's to buy ZHT's = one giant leap sideways.

Waste of time and effort, not to mention money. May as well keep what you have, save up and bypass the entry level lines all together.

^ this.

I've borrowed my kids Wuhan New traditional for a singer/songwriter demo where I needed some thing a bit dark and a bit funky to go with the folky-alt rock vibe, and again for blues trio where the qualities of the Wuhan worked excellent.

When I'm do harder rock, I stick with my Zildjian and Paistes.

[jim_gregory]

I got a thin crash and a standard crash (16's) and hats and 20 inch ride. LOVE the ride, the thin crash is OK and the standard crash is ok. Hats not so good. I got them for my practice kit to leave at the practice place. I now take them to gigs as well.
The crashes are really loud and don't sound like anything else I can think of. The hats are washy and thin and the ride is just right. This is to my ears though. You DO NOT know what you will get if you order them online. May be great and may be real bad.
Mine are very usable but I am not too picky. They will not last forever though. That is obvious.
They are much lighter in the bag then my A Zildjians.

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by jim_gregory

I got a thin crash and a standard crash (16's) and hats and 20 inch ride. LOVE the ride, the thin crash is OK and the standard crash is ok. Hats not so good. I got them for my practice kit to leave at the practice place. I now take them to gigs as well.
The crashes are really loud and don't sound like anything else I can think of. The hats are washy and thin and the ride is just right. This is to my ears though. You DO NOT know what you will get if you order them online. May be great and may be real bad.
Mine are very usable but I am not too picky. They will not last forever though. That is obvious.
They are much lighter in the bag then my A Zildjians.

awesome thanks for the info. you say they wont last just because of the weight, or have you had any damage on you yet? im not picky either so, unless the cymbal sound really bad or has damage on it, id probably be satisfied.

since the zht is a side step, what do you guys think about these:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums...-free-18-crash

??

if i want to stay in budget, ill go wuhan. if i want to break my bank, are the classics customs a good choice? that pack has everything i need

[Bretton]

I had a 12" wuhan S splash, which I loved. Cracked it pretty fast, so stopped using it. more recently had it lathed down to about 10" to get past the crack, and now it's easy to invert the bell, so I play it that way, like Sabian's china splashes. Sounds better than the regular shape, but not quite as good as when it was 12". Very trashy sound. So be wary of the durability of any wuhan western-style cymbals you get. My 20" and 12" (agazarian, which is a wuhan clone) chinas have held up fine.

[bmeat]

so theyre better than zbts. anyone think theyre better than zhts or classics?

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

We're just going round and round the same old mountain here mate. Quite simply......you've gotta go hit some. You're relying on other people to make up your mind for you. It just doesn't work that way......trust me.

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold

We're just going round and round the same old mountain here mate. Quite simply......you've gotta go hit some. You're relying on other people to make up your mind for you. It just doesn't work that way......trust me.

i understand, and im glad you guys beat this into my head becuase i went into the store to pick out my kit. i had a pdp on order, and i switched my order to a tama becuase i went in the store and liked the tama more after having a listen to both.

unfortunatley the option isnt there for these wuhan cymbals, and i hear many people comparing them the sound of the zildjian k. if so, shouldnt they sound better than a zht and a classics custom?

how about the classics customs vs zhts?

going to take another trip tomorrow

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Originally Posted by bmeat

and i hear many people comparing them the sound of the zildjian k. if so, shouldnt they sound better than a zht and a classics custom?

I've only heard one or two Wuhans (and one of those was a china)....not nearly enough to form an opinion one way or another. But I see them mentioned by guys on this forum whose opinions I respect, so if guys like DED and others tell me they sound good for the money spent, then that's good enough for me. I have however, heard a bunch of ZBT's, ZHT's, ZXT's etc etc and my honest opinion on them is that they are junk. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone when that money could be far better spent by buying a used pro-level cymbal. But as sound is subjective to the listener, the terms "better" or "worse" are relative to the person using them. All I know is that after reading reviews of people here on Wuhan cymbals, I'd owe it to myself to check 'em out and form my own opinion on them, long before I laid any money down for a ZHT.

So my first choice would be used pro-levels. Second choice would be to check out brands like Wuhan, Stagg etc that seem to offer a better quality of cymbal at reasonable prices and I'd only consider a ZHT if there was no way I could explore options a and b.

And fwiw, comparing a Wuhan to a Zildjian K seems like a very long bow for mine. I'm happy to be wrong and I'm not experienced enough with Wuahn cymbals to call it definitively........but my inner cynic simply doesn't believe it.

[jim_gregory]

Originally Posted by bmeat

awesome thanks for the info. you say they wont last just because of the weight, or have you had any damage on you yet? im not picky either so, unless the cymbal sound really bad or has damage on it, id probably be satisfied.

since the zht is a side step, what do you guys think about these:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums...-free-18-crash

??

if i want to stay in budget, ill go wuhan. if i want to break my bank, are the classics customs a good choice? that pack has everything i need

I say they wont last because they are very thin and have odd hammering kind of radiating out from the center.. Also there are many flea bites. But I am a very soft hitter. Honestly with wuhan traditionals you don't know what you will get till you get it. I do like mine but I am so not picky. You dont have to hit these cymbals hard to get them to open up though. Would I recommend you buy a set without hearing them? It's a total crap shoot.
If you are a hard hitter you really need to get cymbals with a bit more metal in them.

[bennyboyt]

The place where my band practices uses Wuhan cymbals, and apart from the 16" crash they just sound terrible.

However I'd put them in the same bracket as Stagg cymbals, where it's more pot luck what quality cymbal you're getting as you need to try the specific cymbals your buying to really know what you're getting.

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by bennyboyt

The place where my band practices uses Wuhan cymbals, and apart from the 16" crash they just sound terrible.

However I'd put them in the same bracket as Stagg cymbals, where it's more pot luck what quality cymbal you're getting as you need to try the specific cymbals your buying to really know what you're getting.

are they the wuhan s cymbal or the new traditional?

i found a video here comparing them to a sabian aa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uenLSoU7yg8

and a thread hear praising them.
http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/ar.../t-252947.html

i just hope theyre not over hyping them.

going to sam ash to see if they have a bigger cymbal selection today

nothing at sam ash either. and no local drum shops :/ guess im gonna have to take the risk with musiciains friend. gonna order them and see how they sound
thank you pocketfullofgold and everyone else. good info from good people

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold

I've only heard one or two Wuhans (and one of those was a china)....not nearly enough to form an opinion one way or another. But I see them mentioned by guys on this forum whose opinions I respect, so if guys like DED and others tell me they sound good for the money spent, then that's good enough for me. I have however, heard a bunch of ZBT's, ZHT's, ZXT's etc etc and my honest opinion on them is that they are junk. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone when that money could be far better spent by buying a used pro-level cymbal. But as sound is subjective to the listener, the terms "better" or "worse" are relative to the person using them. All I know is that after reading reviews of people here on Wuhan cymbals, I'd owe it to myself to check 'em out and form my own opinion on them, long before I laid any money down for a ZHT.

So my first choice would be used pro-levels. Second choice would be to check out brands like Wuhan, Stagg etc that seem to offer a better quality of cymbal at reasonable prices and I'd only consider a ZHT if there was no way I could explore options a and b.

And fwiw, comparing a Wuhan to a Zildjian K seems like a very long bow for mine. I'm happy to be wrong and I'm not experienced enough with Wuahn cymbals to call it definitively........but my inner cynic simply doesn't believe it.

i understand these wuhans are more dark than your average cymbal but are they also dry? does the sustain/wash die out quicker than say a zildjian sheet stamped cymbal?

[DrumEatDrum]

They are darker.

While no where near the quality of a Zildjian K, there are some similarities.

Being hand made, they are subject to being highly different from one to the next.
So, even if you have two identical Wuhans, they are bound to sound different.

My sons ride isn't the most pleasing tone when playing it, but if I stand a few feet back while someone else plays it, the unpleasant tones disappear and it seems only the good tones carry through the room.

[Bad Tempered Clavier]

Originally Posted by bennyboyt

I'd put them in the same bracket as Stagg cymbals, where it's more pot luck what quality cymbal you're getting as you need to try the specific cymbals your buying to really know what you're getting.

That's a good point - I have a friend who has Stagg SH and DH cymbals that sit very well with his Ks, 602s and 2002s. Whereas some people will not consider them that great - I think for the price they are a better deal then the low-end models from the larger manufacturers.

Another brand to consider is Dream - although the each-cymbal-really-needs-to-be-individually-examined thing applies there as well. Though for what it's worth my Dream Bliss splashes sit very nicely with my AAXs.

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum

They are darker.

While no where near the quality of a Zildjian K, there are some similarities.

Being hand made, they are subject to being highly different from one to the next.
So, even if you have two identical Wuhans, they are bound to sound different.

My sons ride isn't the most pleasing tone when playing it, but if I stand a few feet back while someone else plays it, the unpleasant tones disappear and it seems only the good tones carry through the room.

i cant go anywhere to hand select them :/ i did get two 16" chinas, and they sound identical which is weird, but very nice since i trust wuhan a little more now.

i wouldnt mind a darker, drier cymbal that dies out quicker and silkier/smoother. im not trying to cut over a whole band playing, just jammin in my basement, sometimes with my bro on a 60 watt amp

are the staggs any better? i see theyre also b20, handmade, but theyre a little pricer. are wuhan and stagg the same company/made in the same factory? any better than wuhans for sound and/or durability? if i were to buy staggs, it would probably be the SH series

this guy says theyre darker than the zbts, but they sound brighter than the wuhan nt to me. what do you guys think about how they sound?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NomWnDISeQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wGzN5zEa40 comparing them to zildjian as for some reason

[Bad Tempered Clavier]

Originally Posted by bmeat

this guy says theyre darker than the zbts, but they sound brighter than the wuhan nt to me. what do you guys think about how they sound?

Depends what you like, Chief: I wouldn't have said they were "darker" - if anything I would have said they were crisper than the ZBTs which (to me) sound like every other kind of cheap Zildjian, Sabian, or Paiste - i.e. clunky, brassy, and generally having something-of-the-hubcap about them.

I think the selling point of Stagg and Dream is that they are not trying to sell you a watered-down version of their flagship models - unlike Zildjian et al. It's like what BMW and Mercedes have been doing recently: I always thought the point of those cars was that they were desirable and beyond the means of your average Joe: if you really wanted a quality car you had to spend a bit to get something special. Now they make piddly little hatchback cars that you can take down the supermarket. Ain't exactly sexy, is it? I say if you want Zildjian - spend the money and do it properly. If you can't afford the A or K or whatever then the Staggs or Dreams or maybe even Wuhans will serve you better than what the big companies don't consider to be their best work.

[By the way - For those viewers in the UK - those Stagg vids came from the Newcastle Drum Centre; I have done (online) business with them and found them to be very good.]

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by Bad Tempered Clavier

Depends what you like, Chief: I wouldn't have said they were "darker" - if anything I would have said they were crisper than the ZBTs which (to me) sound like every other kind of cheap Zildjian, Sabian, or Paiste - i.e. clunky, brassy, and generally having something-of-the-hubcap about them.

I think the selling point of Stagg and Dream is that they are not trying to sell you a watered-down version of their flagship models - unlike Zildjian et al. It's like what BMW and Mercedes have been doing recently: I always thought the point of those cars was that they were desirable and beyond the means of your average Joe: if you really wanted a quality car you had to spend a bit to get something special. Now they make piddly little hatchback cars that you can take down the supermarket. Ain't exactly sexy, is it? I say if you want Zildjian - spend the money and do it properly. If you can't afford the A or K or whatever then the Staggs or Dreams or maybe even Wuhans will serve you better than what the big companies don't consider to be their best work.

[By the way - For those viewers in the UK - those Stagg vids came from the Newcastle Drum Centre; I have done (online) business with them and found them to be very good.]

true, very good information, thanks.

are wuhans and staggs made in the same factory? i know theyre both made in china, so i cant see paying so much more for a stagg pack vs a wuhan pack unless the quality control/quality in general on the staggs are better. that is something im willing to pay a little extra for.

[Bad Tempered Clavier]

Originally Posted by bmeat

are wuhans and staggs made in the same factory? i know theyre both made in china, so i cant see paying so much more for a stagg pack vs a wuhan pack unless the quality control/quality in general on the staggs are better. that is something im willing to pay a little extra for.

No idea, Dude - but according to this website there's only 70USD difference between the Wuhan pack and the Stagg SH pack. If you get a chance to try any of these brands in a store then you can always shop around for a better price.

[bmeat]

anyone know anything about stagg and how their quality is now in 2012? different company than wuhan, or just relabled from the same factory?

[makinao]

Stagg and Wuhan are both made in the city of Wuhan in China, and most likely in the same factory. AFAIK, they share some model lines. The Wuhan "Lion" and Stagg "Traditional" Chinas are exactly the same. The Wuhan "S" and Stagg "SH" series are suspiciously similar.

I will reiterate that Staggs and Wuhans are notoriously inconsistent, and buying one over the internet is a gamble. But there are gems to be found if you have the time and patience to seek them out.

Stagg Chinas are comparably cheaper than Wuhans in my country (Philippines). Go figure.

[bmeat]

Originally Posted by makinao

Stagg and Wuhan are both made in the city of Wuhan in China, and most likely in the same factory. AFAIK, they share some model lines. The Wuhan "Lion" and Stagg "Traditional" Chinas are exactly the same. The Wuhan "S" and Stagg "SH" series are suspiciously similar.

I will reiterate that Staggs and Wuhans are notoriously inconsistent, and buying one over the internet is a gamble. But there are gems to be found if you have the time and patience to seek them out.

Stagg Chinas are comparably cheaper than Wuhans in my country (Philippines). Go figure.

stagg said they got new rolling machines in 2009. anyone know what time frame wuhan moved from two factories to one? i like the flat bells on the stagg sh, going to try and hear if the wuhan s and stagg sh sound similar. also going to try and contact wuhan (universal percussion) and stagg if i can. the cymbals sure dont look alike

maybe staggs are just dream cymbals in disguise?

thanks for the info.

[bmeat]

this is the responce that i got from a dream cymbals rep:

"Hi Brandon, Stagg are produced in a different city entirely and wuhan
brand is produced at servral places, not the same as Dream.
Andy"

[bmeat]

"I absolutely for a fact can tell you Stagg is not made at our facility. Our factory does supply some China style cymbals and gongs to Wuhan brand but that is all. As I am not an employee or otherwise associated with either of those two companies, it would not be appropriate to tell you where there cymbals are made though I do know.
Dream are the only western cymbals made at our factory.

Hope this clears this up for you.

Andy"

but according to thsee photos, there are dream cymbals being made inside the wuhan facility
http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/sh...n-Gong-Factory

im confused. he seems to be certain that stagg is a different company though