Update - new series Guru drums - progress report.

[keep it simple]

I've been shipping a lot of questions lately about how our new series drums are progressing, so I think I owe it to everyone here to provide an insight into how we're getting on. I want to point out that this is the only place any information is being released. I have to be very careful re: detail, so please excuse my generalisation for the moment, but all will be revealed in full detail in the next few months, & it will be here first!

The new design will carry the title of "Origin" series. They're a radical departure from traditional drum design, yet they utilise either stave or steam bent shells, depending on the range. Each range within the series is designed to deliver a very specific character, with every aspect of the design focussed on that goal. Our unique shell design enables us to fully explore both shallow & deep drums, without the usual associated issues such as uncontrolled overtones, lack of focus, poor dynamic, etc. Their sound focus is absolutely about the undiluted fundamental tone, & more specifically, strong shell tone presence. They're designed to celebrate the wood species, & feature that individual character prominently in the sound. I'll start with some general features, that I hope you find interesting;

* All drums use a unique lug concept. They look similar to traditional lugs, but float above the shell. Hand polished, & either clear or piano black anodised (same for all brackets & legs too).

* Shells are completely smooth inside (no fixings).

* Both steam bent & stave shells are 6mm thick.

* Super lightweight. All drums, size for size, are just over half the weight of any comparable drum.

* They fit standard R.I.M.S style mounts, yet not via the tension screws. You can lift them on & off the mount in seconds, without disturbing tuning. All floor toms have legs.

* All bass drums will be fitted with matching Guru signature segmented "hide a head" solid wood hoops = no claws.

* All lugs & brackets, legs, & spurs (non of which mount on the shell) are hewn from solid T6 aluminium, & made in the UK.

* Tension screws & fixings are all stainless steel, & made to our design in the UK.


Here's some detail about the makeup of each range. Again, every aspect of each range design is specific to a defined character. That includes bearing edges, timber species (to be released later), hoop choices, etc.

Origin series Classic range:

Steam bent shells. Hard wax buffed finish. Rounded bearing edges (different for reso & batter). All drums fitted with Guru signature segmented solid wood hoops. Available sizes (diameter x depth)
12" x 7" - 13" x 8" - 14" x 11"(FT) - 16" x 14"(FT) - 18" x 12"(BD) - 20" x 12"(BD) - 22" x 14"(BD)


Origin series Performance range:

Stave shells. Hard wax buffed finish. Sharper bearing edges with variable roundover (different for reso & batter). All drums fitted with "S" hoops, except bass drums (they're fitted with Guru signature solid segmented wood hoops).
8" x 8" - 10" x 8" - 12" x 9" - 13" x 10" - 14" x 13"(FT) - 16" x 15"(FT) - 18" x 16"(FT) - 20" x 16"(BD) - 22" x 14"(BD) 22" x 18"(BD).


Origin series Custom range:

Stave or steam bent shells. Any finish, any size (depth or diameter), any bearing edge combination, any hoop style, any timber species. Available sizes (any depth);

Steam bent 12" through 28". Stave 8" through 32".

Your comments are most welcome, as there's still time for us to take your opinions into account, before the official launch at the London Drum Show in October.

Thanks, Andy.

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Jag

Picks, or it didn't happen! :) Sounds very cool. Can't wait to see the finished product, and prices!

Hahaha, I expected the "picks, or it didn't happen" remark :) Prices are a few months away. To a greater extent, it depends on whether we decide to use retail (dealers) or not, but think in terms of Sonor SQ2 level. Some will be less, some will be more, but it's in no way comparing apples to apples.

[BacteriumFendYoke]

I'm looking forward to seeing these drums. I am excited about the design of these drums and genuinely think they could be game-changing. I like that you went with the 20"x12" bass drum for the 'Classic' range; a very wise decision and an eminently practical, as well as sonic decision. Great stuff. Very excited for you.

[Midnite Zephyr]

Ply shells defeat the whole Guru philosophy. Sorry, dude.

Fascinating stuff, Andy. I am intrigued by your descriptions of this series.

[tard]

Andy, how come you changed the design from the original prototypes you had shown us before?

[larryace]

I'm guessing cost. The prototypes were for experimental purposes, to work out ideas in their heads. They're too impractical to build from an economic stand point. I think that's what Andy will say. They took the lessons learned from the prototypes and moved forward on a more cost effective design.

Andy I can't wait! So would you say, for the time being, that these are your current flagship model? Will you still offer "standard" Guru drums?

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by larryace

Andy I can't wait! So would you say, for the time being, that these are your current flagship model? Will you still offer "standard" Guru drums?

Absolutely, but more than the flagship model. This series is the new identity for Guru drums. We'll still be offering "standard" stave & steambent drums in our custom shop options, & these will benefit from the "Origin" program too. Standard Guru custom drums will be carrying new lugs & hardware that will complement the "Origin" hardware, but attach to the shell in the traditional way. We're still completing testing on the snare program. We're not completely sure if we'll be offering snares with the "Origin" technology shells.

Originally Posted by tard

Andy, how come you changed the design from the original prototypes you had shown us before?

Originally Posted by larryace

I'm guessing cost. The prototypes were for experimental purposes, to work out ideas in their heads. They're too impractical to build from an economic stand point. I think that's what Andy will say. They took the lessons learned from the prototypes and moved forward on a more cost effective design.

True to some extent Larry, but also for sonic reasons too. Yes, the original prototype kit is still a very valid construction. It produces sounds that no other drum is capable of producing, but we were able to encompass 90% of that capability into the "Origin" series, & a whole lot more besides. The prototype kit is a very specific beastie, it's world beating in some respects, but poor in others (e.g. an absolute prima donna to tune). I suspect Tard's also interested in the increase in shell thickness from the prototype's 3mm to Origin's 6mm. One reason was to remove some of the negative traits in the prototype, another reason is cost. But not to worry, the new shell design resonates just like a 3mm shell, & surprisingly, has a lower overall mass.

Originally Posted by Jag

Could you use your new system on ply shells?

Yes, you could, & it wouldn't surprise me if others eventually do, as it would be cheaper, but also, the sonic benefit would be substantially reduced. Ply shells simply can't get close to the sonic abilities of stave, steambent, or segmented shells. Thickness to thickness, they take much more input to excite, & their ability to transfer vibrations from batter to reso head is also compromised. Both of those features really play out with the new design.

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke

I'm looking forward to seeing these drums. I am excited about the design of these drums and genuinely think they could be game-changing. I like that you went with the 20"x12" bass drum for the 'Classic' range; a very wise decision and an eminently practical, as well as sonic decision. Great stuff. Very excited for you.

Thank you, erm, BFY ;)

I thought you might like the 20" x 12" BD choice. With it's inherent light weight design, it's just perfect for the player who wants minimal hauling stress. Now here's a little gem for you, the Origin series 20" bass drum weighs the same as my 14" Spaun rack tom, & that's not exactly a heavyweight drum!

Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr

Fascinating stuff, Andy. I am intrigued by your descriptions of this series.

Thanks mate. I'll get the full info out as soon as I can. Think in terms of late August / early September.

[Clone285051]

Sounds like promising concepts !!!

Which one do you prefer yourself :P ... stave or steam-bend ?

How can you possibly hide the inner fixings ? ... you "screw" everything in place ?

Good luck :)

... and keep us posted !!!

[larryace]

Andy...If I wanted a kit and would pay the freight, when it's time, would I be buying direct from Guru or through a dealer? I would SO love to be your first US rep for Guru drums.
Hat officially in the ring.

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by larryace

Andy...If I wanted a kit and would pay the freight, when it's time, would I be buying direct from Guru or through a dealer? I would SO love to be your first US rep for Guru drums.
Hat officially in the ring.

For you Larry, it would always be direct :) We'll chat ;)

Originally Posted by Clone285051

Sounds like promising concepts !!!
How can you possibly hide the inner fixings ? ... you "screw" everything in place ?

Good luck :)

... and keep us posted !!!

Thanks for chiming in. There's no shell fixings to hide, because nothing is screwed or bolted through the shells.

Originally Posted by Clone285051

Which one do you prefer yourself :P ... stave or steam-bend ?

I genuinely don't have a preference, they're both great at their respective tasks. Each has an inherent character irrespective of timber species, bearing edges, etc, that's why we've chosen steam bent for the classic range & stave for the performance range.

To generalise, stave is the more focussed of the two. It brings out the most fundamental timber tone, & is more overtone controlled. Stave loves living with mic's. Steam bent is a more open character. Easy to excite.

[bigiainw]

Oh Andy, you big tease! I'm having improper thoughts already of a steam bent kit in bop sizes. It's all I can do to stop drooling on the keyboard....

[Mad About Drums]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

To generalise, stave is the more focussed of the two. It brings out the most fundamental timber tone, & is more overtone controlled.

And it would mean I probably would choose the Performance serie by the criteria you described, but I would of course love to experiment with the steam bent shells.

Also the sizes available within the Performance serie seem to have a range better suited to what I'm used to play, like the 10"x 8" tom which is not available in the Classic serie, however, there's a 22" x 14" bass drum and a 22" x 18", why there's isn't a 22" x 16"? To similar in terms of sound and response?

I'm really super excited about the Origin series, I can't wait to read the real stuff after all these teasers Andy :)

As far as prices' concerned, would the existing range of Guru's lines be noticably cheaper than the new forthcoming serie?

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Mad About Drums

As far as prices' concerned, would the existing range of Guru's lines be noticably cheaper than the new forthcoming serie?

For now Henri, yes, but not by a huge amount. later on, when the standard constructions get the same standard of hardware as the Origin series, the prices will be very similar.

Originally Posted by Mad About Drums

Also the sizes available within the Performance serie seem to have a range better suited to what I'm used to play, like the 10"x 8" tom which is not available in the Classic serie, however, there's a 22" x 14" bass drum and a 22" x 18", why there's isn't a 22" x 16"? To similar in terms of sound and response?

Yes Henri, the 16" is such a small step in terms of sonic result, but I must clarify something here. If you wanted a 16" deep performance series bass drum, no problem, it's just not included in the standard shell pack options. We'd make it as a custom option, but there's no premium attached to that decision. Essentially, you can have what you want, but you might have to wait a few weeks longer for it.

As for a 10" steam bent tom, it's not easy to reliably make 10" steam bent shells. We have done it, but it's right on the edge of what you can bend, so taking the technology a bit far.

Originally Posted by bigiainw

Oh Andy, you big tease! I'm having improper thoughts already of a steam bent kit in bop sizes. It's all I can do to stop drooling on the keyboard....

No need for tease. Come to the London Drum Show in October & try for yourself! That show just happens to be a bargain good drummy day out too, even from Scotland :)

[BacteriumFendYoke]

I will second the London Drum Show. I went in October and had a great day out. Highly recommended and I was made to feel very welcome by everyone there, Andy included!

[Davo-London]

I'll be there!

Davo

[AJ3000]

I'm impressed, although not surprised. I think I need to purchase a ticket for the London Drum Show and come and have a play/chat in person. Looks freaking awesome on paper though!

[Toolate]

The 1/8" thick shell and no hardware concept is pretty interesting/exciting. Cant wait to hear them-

[evilg99]

Looks great Andy. The anticipation is building and building! Can't wait to see/hear these.
Especially the Classic range!

Best,
Neal

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

So exciting mate. Can't wait for a gander.

But for the love of god......don't show Bo your slogan!! :-)

[RobertM]

Andy,

I like the logo and the descriptions for each kit. The bass drum sizes are cool *and* flexible (12x18, 12x20, 16x20 and the larger sizes all seem like great choices) and the unique bearing edges are a bonus. My only gripe is the lack of an 8x12 tom in the Classic and Performance series. The 8x12 is really the ultimate tom in some respects: it suits rock, fusion, latin, and of course is the standard for jazz.

Given the universality of this tom size, why did you choose to not offer an 8x12 tom? Would it be possible to add the 8x12 into the lineup of one of the series? For example, have 7x12 *and* 8x12; or 8x12 and 9x12, to let the customer choose whether or not they want a standard "jazz" 12" tom or the more modern short-stack or semi-power tom?

I know most folks may not be as picky as me, but drum companies not offering drum kits with 8x12 toms as standard in configurations are a real deal breaker for me, and far too many companies make 8x12 sizes add-ons and not standard. Especially if I am going to invest a lot-to-substantial amounts of money into a solid-to-high-end kit, then I want my drums to be as flexible as possible for all musical situations, and perhaps more or so than any other drum (save a snare) the 8x12 tom is the heart of the kit that makes universal application smooth and easy.

Thanks for accepting feedback. The drums look great. How affordable will each series be, especially for those of us in the States or outside the UK?

A Classic series kit in 8x10, 8x12, 14" floor and 12x20 would be awesome; but without the 10" there, I'd go for a Performance series in 8x10, 8x12, 14" floor, and 16x20.

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by RobertM

Andy,

Given the universality of this tom size, why did you choose to not offer an 8x12 tom?

Thanks for your well considered reply Robert :) We chose these sizes after testing, as being the optimum from a sound character POV, & without reference to fashion or "standards". The construction of these drums allows you to think outside of the box. In the case of the 12" tom, we can achieve all the character traits & more of a 12" x 8" in a 12" x 7". For example, in the Origin series, you'd need to order a 12" x 6" tom if you wanted the character of a 12" x 7" tom. In other words, our 12" x 7" tom is our 12" x 8" tom. That said, we realise that we may have to get past players inbuilt ideas about size/sound relationships, especially on bass drums. I'd imagine many would dismiss the 20" x 12" bass drum as being too thin sounding = WRONG!

Originally Posted by RobertM

Would it be possible to add the 8x12 into the lineup of one of the series?

Absolutely yes, & that's why the custom Origin range exists in the series. It won't attract a premium either. Both the Performance range & Classic range of Origin series, are our suggestions of optimum configurations. They're there to offer clarity of choice, with a distinctive sound palate, but ultimately, you can have what you want.

Originally Posted by RobertM

A Classic series kit in 8x10, 8x12, 14" floor and 12x20 would be awesome; but without the 10" there, I'd go for a Performance series in 8x10, 8x12, 14" floor, and 16x20.

10" just isn't viable in a steam bent shell, so we'd need to go to stave for that. Again, this is where the custom range comes into it's own. We can easily make a Classic range with 10" tom in stave construction, & with all the Classic range features (bearing edges, segmented hoops, etc). Actually, that's a good point, we might just include a stave shell option into the classic range to extend the sizes on offer. We effectively already do that, but it's not spelt out clearly.

Originally Posted by RobertM

Thanks for accepting feedback. The drums look great. How affordable will each series be, especially for those of us in the States or outside the UK?

Pricing is still fluid, & a lot depends on the margin demands of US retailers, if we decide to go that way. As a very approximate rule of thumb, think SQ2 money, & you're not far off. Certainly cheaper than market leading solid shell offerings, & way different to high end ply kits in terms of sonic performance. There's no getting away from the fact that these drums aren't cheap. They can't be, as the production cost is literally many times that of other high end offerings. It's our margins that are squeezed. A 4 piece Origin kit, in standard finish, takes 60 hours of labour to build!

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold

So exciting mate. Can't wait for a gander.

But for the love of god......don't show Bo your slogan!! :-)

Hahaha, yes, I can picture Bo working on a witty response right now :)

Originally Posted by evilg99

Looks great Andy. The anticipation is building and building! Can't wait to see/hear these.
Especially the Classic range!

Best,
Neal

Thanks Neal, it'll only be a few months before details are here first!

Originally Posted by Toolate

The 1/8" thick shell and no hardware concept is pretty interesting/exciting. Cant wait to hear them-

Thanks! There is hardware, it's just not attached to the stave or steambent shell itself. They do have lugs, that look like lugs, but not as you know them now. The drums tune as standard drums too. You won't have to think about the design of these drums, just play them, enjoy them, & relish their super light weight advantages.

Originally Posted by AJ3000

I'm impressed, although not surprised. I think I need to purchase a ticket for the London Drum Show and come and have a play/chat in person. Looks freaking awesome on paper though!

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke

I will second the London Drum Show. I went in October and had a great day out. Highly recommended and I was made to feel very welcome by everyone there, Andy included!

Originally Posted by Davo-London

I'll be there!

Davo

& I'm very much looking forward to meeting you (again) guys. I promise a warm welcome and a great day out. I'm just waiting to receive details of the clinic & workshop lineup for this years event. When I get the info, I'll post it here directly :)

[BabyBob]

Interesting report. Looking forward to demos of it on youtube...heheh

[RobertM]

Excellent feedback, Andy--thanks! Your point about the 12x20 actually addresses my question about the 8x12: I know from discussions about Eames birch shells that 12x20 9-ply Eames sound like 22", so I see your point about 7x12 having the characteristics of an 8x12.

SQ2 money--eek! Though I totally understand the price given the labor and craftsmanship here.

Can't wait to see some final products!

[BacteriumFendYoke]

I can say that SQ2-type money for these drums is an absolute bargain. The only kit you'll ever need or want!

[Soupy]

Cool, nice to see an update on the product

Originally Posted by keep it simple

* Both steam bent & stave shells are 6mm (1/8") thick.
* Super lightweight. All drums, size for size, are just over half the weight of any comparable drum.
Steam bent 12" through 28". Stave 8" through 32".

Er, so, which is it, 6mm or 1/8"? How durable (i.e., helpful klutz, let me drop that for you) is a thin stave or bent shell? Plywood is, if nothing else, strong.

Just curious though, what's the largest bass drum anyone's actually ordered from Guru? Have you guys ever put together a 32?

Free floating shells then, so no independent tuning? Fine by me. Have you guys done testing to see what pitch interval different common heads give you. I.e., G1 over G1 gives the same pitch on both heads, G2 / G+ / G14 over G1 would likely give different pitch intervals naturally.

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Soupy

Cool, nice to see an update on the product


Er, so, which is it, 6mm or 1/8"? How durable (i.e., helpful klutz, let me drop that for you) is a thin stave or bent shell? Plywood is, if nothing else, strong.

Just curious though, what's the largest bass drum anyone's actually ordered from Guru? Have you guys ever put together a 32?

Free floating shells then, so no independent tuning? Fine by me. Have you guys done testing to see what pitch interval different common heads give you. I.e., G1 over G1 gives the same pitch on both heads, G2 / G+ / G14 over G1 would likely give different pitch intervals naturally.

Sorry, my typo, the thickness is 6mm! :)

These shells are perfectly durable in normal service, but won't take extreme abuse as well as a thick plywood shell. You're right, plywood is very strong, as it's primary purpose is as a construction material. I think drums are just about the only acoustic instrument where most higher end offerings use plywood. You'd no more abuse our drums than you would abuse an acoustic guitar, for example. If ultimate tour abuse, with drums transported without cases, is your thing, then our drums are not for you.

Free floating? Absolutely not. These drums carry all the resonance advantages of free floating drums, but they tune in the standard way (i.e. you can independently tune batter & reso).

[Netz Ausg]

Andy - it all sounds cracking mate!

Definitely have to check in with you in October and have a go at the Performance series.

Of course, then I'd have to go to the bank, talk to the manager, double my mortgage, sell my liver and kidneys... ;)

Can't wait to hear some more, dude!

[Soupy]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

Free floating? Absolutely not. These drums carry all the resonance advantages of free floating drums, but they tune in the standard way (i.e. you can independently tune batter & reso).

Okay, standard S-Hoops,and shells with nothing attached? What type of magic is this? Are the bearing edges on the shell?

Witchcraft!

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Soupy

Okay, standard S-Hoops,and shells with nothing attached? What type of magic is this? Are the bearing edges on the shell?

Witchcraft!

hahaha, no, not witchcraft, just a very simple piece of design, that's deceptively difficult to get right! :)

The lugs are indirectly secured to the stave or steam bent shell, but not by drilling holes in the shell itself.

[tard]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

hahaha, no, not witchcraft, just a very simple piece of design, that's deceptively difficult to get right! :)

The lugs are indirectly secured to the stave or steam bent shell, but not by drilling holes in the shell itself.

Is it, for lack of a better word, a "bridge" type design similar to the prototypes?

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by tard

Is it, for lack of a better word, a "bridge" type design similar to the prototypes?

Very loosely, but not as you know it, & structurally + visually totally different. The drums have defined separate lugs, not threaded inserts, as in SV's original piece of genius :)

[keep it simple]

Dean & I just finished our day selecting woods for the three ranges in the new series. We've got to run a few trials on one specific wood species, but we're almost there. Our wood choices are pretty unique, & that complements the design completely. Once further testing is done, I'll reveal the choices for our classic & performance ranges. I can reveal that the choice for my gigging kit (& road trial kit), is figured satinwood. Super dense & hard, with a wonderful resonant tone. Think in terms of hard maple on steroids, + the bottom end of birch, & you're about there.

[Soupy]

Andy, can you clarify what "SQ2 pricing" is? Sonor is pretty expensive in the US, and a SQ2 shell pack easily runs $5000-7000. 2-3 times what something like Ludwig Classic Maples, Pearl Reference, or anything Mapex would cost. Is that the same ballpark on your side of the pond?

[keep it simple]

UPDATE:

After further testing, I can now confirm that we will be offering Origin series snare drums to complement the new series drums. Origin Series snares will also be offered separately.

We had to wait for testing results before making this decision. Essentially, we needed to be sure that the new design was suitable for very high head tensions. I'm pleased to say, the new designs worked extremely well. That further testing however, does mean we won't have new series snares available for press review in a few weeks time, & may even struggle to get a couple ready for the show launch. The new snares will feature a strainer that floats above the main shell, in line with all Origin lugs & hardware.

Originally Posted by Soupy

Andy, can you clarify what "SQ2 pricing" is? Sonor is pretty expensive in the US, and a SQ2 shell pack easily runs $5000-7000. 2-3 times what something like Ludwig Classic Maples, Pearl Reference, or anything Mapex would cost. Is that the same ballpark on your side of the pond?

We're nowhere near establishing US retail availability, except directly from us. I'll take a guess & say shell sets starting around $4,000 excluding snare is near the mark.

[NC68]

Originally Posted by Soupy

Andy, can you clarify what "SQ2 pricing" is? Sonor is pretty expensive in the US, and a SQ2 shell pack easily runs $5000-7000. 2-3 times what something like Ludwig Classic Maples, Pearl Reference, or anything Mapex would cost. Is that the same ballpark on your side of the pond?

$5000-7000 retail perhaps and of course it all depends on the configuration and finish. A BD/TT/FT SQ2 kit can be had for way lower than $5000.

[RobertM]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

Dean & I just finished our day selecting woods for the three ranges in the new series. We've got to run a few trials on one specific wood species, but we're almost there. Our wood choices are pretty unique, & that complements the design completely. Once further testing is done, I'll reveal the choices for our classic & performance ranges. I can reveal that the choice for my gigging kit (& road trial kit), is figured satinwood. Super dense & hard, with a wonderful resonant tone. Think in terms of hard maple on steroids, + the bottom end of birch, & you're about there.

Andy: Would you say, then, that the Satinwood is kind of close to oak? Yamaha Oak Customs have a power maple resonance with some low end, for example, and oak is hard and dense.

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by RobertM

Andy: Would you say, then, that the Satinwood is kind of close to oak? Yamaha Oak Customs have a power maple resonance with some low end, for example, and oak is hard and dense.

TBH, our experience with satinwood is limited, so I can't be absolutely sure how it's going to turn out. It's not quite as bright as oak, but delivers a much richer midrange & balanced low end. With the new series shell design, I'm expecting more lows than oak too. Again, think of maple on steroids, or purpleheart with slightly less cut, & you're about right.

As I'm in update mode, I can now reveal the most important wood info, & that's the choices for the Origin Performance & classic ranges.

Origin performance: Stave padauk. Padauk segmented bass drum hoops with "S" hoops on toms. Big rich vibrant sounds. In testing, incredible resonance. One of the kings of tone woods IMO. Similar overall sound to East Indian rosewood but easier to open up. As an all round performance kit, this will blow your socks off, & some :) I also love the deep burnt orange colour too.

Origin Classic: Steam bent ash. Evangkol segmented hoops to all drums. Ash offers a balanced sound, & in thin shell steam bent form, opens up with the slightest touch. Evangkol segmented hoops keep liveliness in check, & add a bright rosewood tone to the voice. Almost white ash shells in combination with highly figured dark brown hoops is a brave colour combo, but we think it blends like expresso & single cream :)

[stavebuilder]

These two kits sound very cool, and no doubt the quality will be out of this world! I'm especially curious about the padauk.I've yet to use it on to build any drums with.....yet. I recently bought some and now you've got me anxious to use it up. I do love the smell of padauk though. It reminds me of vanilla.

[larryace]

Espresso and a single cream...vanilla, man you guys are making me salivate. Andy, I cant wait to see what you've done.

[mikeyhanson]

toss in a big shaker of chocolate powder and you've got yourself a kit!