A few beginner questions

[Hignar]

Hi guys,

I guess a brief introduction would help before I launch into my questions...

I've only been drumming a few weeks and am currently looking for a local teacher but am yet to actually make contact with any as most lessons round this area seem to focus on group sessions and I'd much rather have one-on-one lessons.

Also I suspect that I'm coming to drumming a bit later in life than most (30) having been a guitarist for the past 14 years and being a self taught I'm well aware of the frustration that this route can cause so the teacher hunt is fairly high priority.

That said I've taken my first steps on the drums using books and youtube videos. All practice has been done to a metronome and I feel I'm making steady progress on the basic backbeat/rock grooves I've been working on. However, I'm aware that my left hand is currently doing very little work and is fairly weak with what it is doing so have starting looking into stick technique and ultimately came across the idea of buying a practice pad and a copy of Stick Control. I think my left hand is improving but is still a bit sloppy.

So, onto my questions...

Grip - The book I've been using suggests match grip but I have found that while playing I gravitate towards having my thumbs facing upwards. A little googling suggests that I'm using French grip. Am I okay to proceed using this grip? I find it more comfortable than match grip but could put the effort in to practice match grip if necessary

The weaker hand - how much weaker is it normal for the off hand to be when beginning? I don't even seem to be able to get a consistent stoke going like I can with my right as the stick wobbles/doesn't pivot properly/catches on my watch strap. I guess I'm just concerned that I may be doing something fundamentally wrong that the extra practice will reinforce rather than improve.

Areas to focus on - I'm spending 30 - 45 minutes at the kit and maybe 4 or 5 times a week and am probably doing about the same with the practice pad/Stick Control. What I want to avoid is progressing to a point where my left hand holds me back (was in a similar position with picking technique on guitar) so figure I'm better looking at it now while it's not really an issue but I don't know if I'm trying to run before I can walk. I'm only working on the single stroke 8th note patterns in Stick Control and am doing them fairly slowly (<100bpm and usually around 80bpm). Is working on both the backbeat patterns and Stick Control (albeit slowly) a good idea at this point or should I focus more on the kit work and worry about my left hand when everything is a bit more "settled in"?

[Mr Mantalini]

You're doing exactly the right thing in looking for a teacher. In the meantime, get a copy of Great Hands for a Lifetime by Tommy Igoe. Focus on the first half hour or so of the DVD, particularly the grip building demonstration, rebound stroke exercises and accent exercises. It's normal for the left hand to be weaker and it will take a lot of practice over a long time to get it up to speed. Good luck!

[Bad Tempered Clavier]

Originally Posted by Hignar

I have found that while playing I gravitate towards having my thumbs facing upwards [. . .] Am I okay to proceed using this grip? I find it more comfortable than match grip but could put the effort in to practice match grip if necessary

Ain't nothing wrong with thumb-on-top per se, but you may find it useful to have a crack at the other kind of grip - especially when it comes to techniques like the Moeller method. Many drummers use both kinds of grip in different situations - check out Jeff Porcaro talking about developing a palm-down grip to help with fast 1/16th notes on the hi-hat. Compare that to Steve Gadd riding a fairly standard jazz ride pattern with thumb on top.

Generally it's not a good idea to develop a technique without experienced supervision, but for now if what you're doing works and doesn't hurt your hands then carry on until you can find a good teacher

Originally Posted by Hignar

how much weaker is it normal for the off hand to be when beginning

If you're working through Stick Control then there are plenty of exercises to help with the weaker hand: if you work to a click then just simple
RLRL RLRL RLRL RLRL
followed by
LRLR LRLR LRLR LRLR
exercises will ensure you are working both hands evenly.

Originally Posted by Hignar

Is working on both the backbeat patterns and Stick Control (albeit slowly) a good idea at this point or should I focus more on the kit work and worry about my left hand when everything is a bit more "settled in"?

Do both; the more time you spend on a kit the more you learn about what it can do. The theory and rudiment exercises are invaluable but should not be focused on to the exclusion of playing music (if you get my meaning). Playing on the kit will develop your ear, feel, imagination, and understanding of drums in ways that the pad cannot. If you're dividing your time equally between the two then I'd say that's probably time well spent.

Good luck and have fun.

[jeffwj]

Originally Posted by Hignar

I've only been drumming a few weeks and am currently looking for a local teacher but am yet to actually make contact with any as most lessons round this area seem to focus on group sessions and I'd much rather have one-on-one lessons.

What area are you from? Maybe someone here can recommend a teacher. You can also look at this list of educators from the Vic Firth website.

http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/edu.php?letter=A

Jeff

[MattA]

Originally Posted by Hignar

Grip - The book I've been using suggests match grip but I have found that while playing I gravitate towards having my thumbs facing upwards. A little googling suggests that I'm using French grip. Am I okay to proceed using this grip? I find it more comfortable than match grip but could put the effort in to practice match grip if necessary

You can still play in matched French grip.

Matched generally refers to the fact that you're holding both hands the same way.

This is opposed to 'traditional grip' where your left hand holds the stick in an entirely different way.

This was traditionally used for playing a drum while standing/marching and therefore the angle of the head is different.

You may be referring to the difference between German and French. Where German is thumb on the side palm down and French is thumb on top palms inward.

Either way is fine and often more suited to one thing or another depending.

Originally Posted by Hignar

The weaker hand - how much weaker is it normal for the off hand to be when beginning? I don't even seem to be able to get a consistent stoke going like I can with my right as the stick wobbles/doesn't pivot properly/catches on my watch strap. I guess I'm just concerned that I may be doing something fundamentally wrong that the extra practice will reinforce rather than improve.

Areas to focus on - I'm spending 30 - 45 minutes at the kit and maybe 4 or 5 times a week and am probably doing about the same with the practice pad/Stick Control. What I want to avoid is progressing to a point where my left hand holds me back (was in a similar position with picking technique on guitar) so figure I'm better looking at it now while it's not really an issue but I don't know if I'm trying to run before I can walk. I'm only working on the single stroke 8th note patterns in Stick Control and am doing them fairly slowly (<100bpm and usually around 80bpm). Is working on both the backbeat patterns and Stick Control (albeit slowly) a good idea at this point or should I focus more on the kit work and worry about my left hand when everything is a bit more "settled in"?

The point you make about being concerned that you're potentially reinforcing an incorrect technique is a valid one.

It sounds like you're on the right track with the right attitude, but while you remain without a teacher, the potential for practicing incorrect technique is a risk.

Having said that, you'll find that bringing your weak hand up to speed/control will generally be a constant focus throughout your progression, not just at the beginning phase.

It's good that you're aware of it and sounds like you've got a decent grasp of musical concepts already due to your previous experience with the guitar.

Keep looking for that teacher and good luck.

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

I come from a similar path. I'm an educated guitarplayer and teacher that got more heavily into the drums at 32, about 3 years ago.

I got a a couple of lessons a quickly as I could, but don't take regular lessons with just one teacher. Even on basic technique and how to work on fundamentals teachers disagree. I just got all the materials I could and applied the knowledge I've aquired as a musician in general about how to practice and develop into the type of drummer I want to be.

I started playing traditional grip because I grew up around guys playing that, and that's still what I prefer most of the time. All the teachers I've had have tried to convert me to matched which I also do practice a bit, but playing a traditional kit setup I just feel more comfortable with traditional grip.


By comparing knowledge from my different teachers I've come to my own ideas of what works. The idea is just to be open and at least try stuff to see if you find it valid and if you don't maybe try again further down the line.

If you are patient and have the ability to evaluate your technique from a humble standpoint, there is still use for a teacher in many other respects.

Since my right hand is doing most of the work on the kit, it's natural for it to be more developed. Some teachers feel that's no big deal, but I do give my left hand more attention on the pad and also play open handed a bit just to even it out. Some advocate playing more or less only right hand lead, but I feel practicing leading with the left hand is good for right handed playing as well, as it makes it easier to recognise and fix any left hand issues. I'm single, have a lot of time on my hands and just enjoy doing it.

We all have different hands and different preferences. The main thing is that your hand technique doesn't hinder you or cause you any pain. With good technique there should be no visible damage or any discomfort resulting from impact. Anything but just tired muscles is to be avoided and even if that might be the goal for some endurance exercises you should learn movements to save as much energy as possible.

Many teachers advocate just one or two things and can be quite dogmatic about it, so if you want to do your own research check out the DVDs by Jojo Mayer, Joe Morello and Jim Chapin.

[Hignar]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. It's good to know that I'm not heading off down a completely wrong track.

My concern for "correct" technique stems from the fact that I'm aware that I held myself back on guitar by having poor technique in quite a fundamental area (gripping the neck too tightly resulting in poor dexterity and, more worryingly, pain if playing for any length of time) so I am keen to get basic technique down early.

I spent half an hour looking for tutors in my area (near Manchester, UK) last night and have come up with a couple of possibilities. I'll email both and see what sort of response I get - my concern with one of them is that the tutors seem to be fairly young blokes (younger than me) all of whom teach guitar, bass, piano and singing as well as drums. I'm concerned that, being all rounders, that they may well be jack of all trades master of none types and I'd rather have a tutor who was proficient rather than just OK. Do you think this is a valid concern?

For now I'll continue splitting my time between kit and pad. I enjoy both - the pad work can be frustrating when my left hand lets me down but when everything is working I find it oddly therapeutic.

[Bad Tempered Clavier]

Originally Posted by Hignar

I'd rather have a tutor who was proficient rather than just OK. Do you think this is a valid concern?

Yes. A good teacher should have a high level of skill and knowledge in all areas of drumming: from reading and music theory to grips, techniques for hands and feet, choosing sticks and heads, tuning, all types of rudiments as well as different styles of music . . . and so on. The kind of musician who could walk onto any stage with any band and just play with no mucking about: Keep looking, I'm sure you'll find someone.

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

If you can try to find someone who truly is both educated and has a lot of experience both playing and teaching. They may charge a bit more, but there's a reason for that.

It's quite normal to have to teach many different things today and one of the reasons I initially got more seriously into the drums is to try and fix some of the damage done by my predecessor, a not even educated guitar player who was also teaching bass, drums and ensemble. A complete mess.