Getting funded by a record label

Abe, sounds like you've been talking with too many Aussies :)

This thread is touching on something I've never gotten my head around. Heaps of movie stars, rock stars etc will say something like this in interviews:

"I had a dream and I stuck to it even though everyone told me I was crazy and it couldn't be done. Don't listen to the doubters! Follow your dream and never let it go and one day you'll get there".

I believed that until I was 28 and saw bands hitting the big time that were not only much younger than my groups, but much better writers and players than we were. Not just better, in another league.

At 28, after a decade of playing around the traps, I figured that if it was going to happen, then it would have already happened ... or at least I'd have been a lot closer to making a living from music than I was. The scene is littered with people who never managed to live the dream and ended up joining the 9-to-5 drones, as I did. The unlucky ones ended up washing dishes.

Thing is, as the song says, ya gotta have faith (and I don't mean religion).

At the same time, people often benefit from cutting their losses and re-evaluating their goals.

They say there's no sense throwing good money after bad.

But winners never quit and quitters never win.

The whole thing does my head in, which is why I haven't offered an opinion on this thread. The idea of sober judgement of probabilities seems incompatible with living the dream. The only intersection seems to be that having a dream is a great motivator to work hard.

Just to complicate things further, they say:

It's not what you know but who you know.

You make your own luck.

It's in the lap of the gods ...

In the end, the only saying that makes sense to me is que sera sera.
 
No one seems to have pointed this out yet, while you busy working everyday attempting to get tours together, writing, rehearsing etc etc i.e. not earning any money..because to do this you're going have to be full time musician

Where are you and your band going to live? How are you going to pay for housing/bills/food/petrol. When if/you're on tour (by tour I mean a money making tour) you need to making enough money to pay for all those things to and enough to keep the band out of debt and pay off any expenses.

You're going to have personal bills and band bills.

edit - sorry not trying to come across as overally harsh, I got the impression you were only thinking about band finances
 
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You're right Drummingman, we are all trying to tell you why you probably won't be able to pull off what you want to, in the way you want to do it.

Why? It's not that we want to see you fail. Not at all. But if someone is adamant about walking through Hell in a gasoline suit, then naturally we are going to try and talk you out of it, that's all. You are our drumming brother and we don't want to misinform you.

Don't you think that if it could be done that way someone would already be doing it? There's nothing new under the sun. You are discounting everyones experiences who has come before you, pretty arrogant. Look at everyone else's experiences, they have to count for something, right? Listen to what pros like Matt are telling you. You aren't the first person who has come up with this kind of plan. Where are the sucessful models you can point to? Can you name anyone who has done it your way? (Frank Sinatra did it his way lol)

What you are proposing is akin to climbing Mt. Everest without gear. While we are all saying that it probably can't be done, you choose to defy conventional wisdom, on the snowballs chance in Hell that you can go where no man has gone before.

I would venture to guess that the music business has probably the lowest success rate of all the businesses, and that's assuming that you have to go down the debt road. You want to take the very hardest business to succeed in, hamstring yourself by thinking you can finance it yourself, from nothing, and want our encoragement. Can you really blame us for seeing the faults in your logic?

If your son or daughter wanted to do the same thing as you, would you encourage that lunacy?

It's clear that no one will be on your side on this subject. Best to accept the fact that anytime you try to get encouragement with this particular plan, you will meet with at least the same amount of resistance as you're getting here. You said you know you have a lot of hard work ahead. I don't think you have the first clue what you will be encountering.

I'm wondering if you ever plan on having kids...They probably won't fit well in your plan.
 
In my life i have, and am still, dealing with debt. My goal is to get out of debt and to stay that way for the rest of my life....
The whole thing for me is keeping my bands that im in out of debt with labels and anyone else that way we dont end up getting messed over and that way the label does not have leverage over my bands.

What are all of your thoughts on these things?

thought - not all debt is bad. 20 years ago I took out a mortgage to buy my house. It is now paid off and the house is mine - it's a much nicer house than I would have ended up with had I tried to just build a little bit at a time as I could afford it (or if I just tried to save up until I had enough money to buy it outright). Debt is a way of leveraging your own resources. If you believe in the value of what you acquire and in your ability to pay the debt service, you just have to take that risk. Of course that also means that maxing out a couple of credit cards (at 20% interest) to buy video games and takeout pizza when you have no income would be a BAD way and reason to go in debt.

Signing with a label could be similar in that by doing so, you avail yourself to a vast wealth of resources and knowledge. It's not free - but if the value of what you get from the label allows you to reach your goals - then it could be worth what it costs you to get there. It seems that almost everybody else has posted that there will be significant costs no matter how you go about it - the question you have to answer is what is most important to you - being successful, not taking on any debt, or not ever signing a deal. They're not mutually exclusive - but you may be losing focus on what your ultimate goal is by imposing artificial constraints on yourself.
 
Drummingman, The majority of us here have played on albums/cd's funded entirely out of pocket with no debt (per your liking) at our local studios. I'm still waiting for my tour to start though...or maybe it did and the guys forgot to tell me? Damnit, that may be why they stopped returning my calls!!!
 
Couple of quick points, especially in light of the playing field being leveled (somewhat) between bands and labels by the band's ability to sell their music online. I say 'somewhat' because labels serve some purposes that even the most ambitious band cannot achieve without support, specifically in the area of marketing.

First, an established artist can now get along without a label. Why? Because they're established, and that's at least initially thanks to the label. So although it's cheap and easy enough to press pro-looking CDs, make a website, and use Reverbnation, CDBaby, etc for sales and basic promotion, it's a very passive approach, and should not be considered a substitute for the kind of experience and connections that a label can give to an unknown band.

Also consider that videos cost money, mainstream radio doesn't play just any CD that comes across their desk, and iTunes won't put an independent band's music online on a specified date. These areas (and more) are where labels still shine, and getting involved to any extent means being beholden to them. New bands take the worst beating when it comes to negotiations. And there's no way to selectively involve a label when it suits the band. For new bands, it's all or nothing.

Or is it?

Keep in mind that when people from labels are laid-off, they often start consulting. So, it's not hard to get the benefits of label knowledge, experience, and even connections, for a fee, as needed. No 'back-end' or advances, just pay as you go, as you need.

Now this doesn't include tour support, financing for videos, cost to press CDs, a publicity person who can arrange interviews and TV appearances etc, that money has to come from somewhere.

But for the Christian market, there are specific shows and retail stores for which getting access and placing CDs on the shelf are probably easier than dealing with mainstream outlets.

Unless you have unlimited funds, I don't think it's possible to remain completely debt-free in the process, but it doesn't mean having to sign with a label.

Good luck, it's gonna be tough either way.

Bermuda
 
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First, an established artist can now get along without a label. Why? Because they're established, and that's at least initially thanks to the label. So although it's cheap and easy enough to press pro-looking CDs, make a website, and use Reverbnation, CDBaby, etc for sales and basic promotion, it's a very passive approach, and should not be considered a substitute for the kind of experience and connections that a label can give to an unknown band.

Also consider that videos cost money, mainstream radio doesn't play just any CD that comes across their desk, and iTunes won't put an independent band's music online on a specified date. These areas (and more) are where labels still shine, and getting involved to any extent means being beholden to them.

This is what I was trying to say earlier.

You can go your own label. I've done exactly the above scenario (press pro-looking CDs, make a website, and use Reverbnation, CDBaby, etc for sales). And hey, we sold CD's from Japan to the Netherlands to Brazil.

But it never came close to even covering the costs of printing the CDs.

Granted, it was a niche music, and we weren't expecting to be profitable, but it would have drastically helped to have been on a niche label to add credibility to our product when presenting it to online radio/DJs/and whomever. Otherwise, we're just one of a million bands on CD baby all trying to push their own stuff on their own.

And side note: Larryace, once again, you nailed it.
 
For some reason, many bands, when they've received advances--despite them being called advances, tend to look at it like, "Wow! The record company just simply gave us 200 grand because they like us! Let's go CRAZYYY!!!" Then they spend a bunch of it on new gear, new clothes, paying the bassist's gambling debts, etc. Then, they tend to believe that the record company is providing free studio time for them, so they think, "We've got our shot, we're going to make the best record we can--so it's okay if we're in the studio for 12 weeks. We want this record to be perfect!" Similar things happen buying or renting gear, hiring a crew, etc. for going on the road--they think it's money they're just being given or something.

Then they wonder why they're not getting big checks once the record starts selling, and then the reality that they've got to pay that money back dawns on them. I don't know why so many people make that mistake--I'd say that the vast majority of musicians I've encountered are fairly intelligent, but they do make that mistake.

While it would be nice to finance everything yourself, sometimes that's not that feasible--I've certainly been in bands with guys with day jobs where everyone is living check to check. There's no way we could have saved to make an album in a pro studio with a pro producer ourselves. You do need the record to sound better than you could do or afford yourself many times, and you do need decent gear, including cosmetically, and a decent look, show and crew when you go on the road.

I think the trick is more to not go overboard. You're not getting "free money". You have to keep in mind from the start that you've got to pay all that money back. So shop for the gear you need just as thriftily as if you were putting it on your own credit card. Make sure you're prepared before you go into the studio, and don't screw around at all once you get there. Even if you're doing something with a lot of overdubs and effects, you should be able to get the album done in a couple weeks if you've planned well enough beforehand. Try to make do with a smaller, maybe a bit more inexperienced crew at first, so that's not costing you a fortune (and then down the road, make sure you're loyal to and you reward the guys in the crew who busted their butts for you early on).

With distribution, by the way, the problem is not money so much as having the connections, the network that you need.
 
I do think That i may be have to go into debt to do what it is that i want to do. That may very well be true. But at the same time if i can avoid that debt then that is my goal.

To be honest there is no point even asking the type of questions on forums that i have asked here (as well as other forums) as well as other questions concerning making it to a place of huge success in a band anymore. Because i have seen the types of responses that i have gotten and will get. At this point its not worth the headache to me anymore to even try to approach these types of topics from a positive and different viewpoint then most (not all i truly hope) people on drum forums. Because i just get bashed for it. So why waste my time talking about these things anymore on these forums. When it comes to talking about certain things i think that drumming forums can be a good thing. But when it comes to talking about trying be successful and trying to do things in different ways, from what i can tell most of the drum forums are useless. Because people just rag on others that believe they can truly achieve their dreams and goals and that believe that they dont have to do eveything the same way that everyone else has done them.

I find it kind of depressing that a lot of impressionable drummers will go on drum forums with a fire in their hearts to reach for their dreams expecting at least most others to feel the same way just to have everyone throw water on their fire. Just because some people have not gotten where they want to be they have a negative viewpoint and they try to project that onto others. When the others dont buy into it that are viewed as naive.

Again, if everybody thought "oh man, its too hard. Theres too much of a chance that i will fail. There are already so many people trying to do it", nobody would ever make it to a place of success (and this is not just in the music business but every other business where its tough to succeed). The people that did not chose to buy into these types of thoughts and that chose to ignore the advice of those that did are the ones that have been (and will be) successful. There is a reason why those who made it to where they want to be tell people not to listen to the naysayers. Its because they heard it all as well. And they refused to listen to the naysayers and they achieved their goals.

Im not arrogant in any way (all the people that know me can attest to this). I just truly believe that with Gods help that anything can be done. Anything! And i refuse to believe differently until God tells me that im wrong (the bible says that with God ALL things are possible). I truly believe this with every fiber of my being. Do i make mistakes? Yes, mistakes all the time. And i am always striving to learn. But i also dont believe that something cant be done just because lots of people tell me that it cant. Im sure that the wright brothers were told that trying to make an airplane was nuts and that they should just give up. But we all know what happened in that story.

I will just go and do what is in my heart to do and what i think is the best way to do things learning from the most positive people as i can as i go. And if i find that im wrong on something then i will do my best to learn what i did or am doing (or believed or am believing) wrong. And then i will do my best to correct my mistake. But i have to at least give things a good deal of thought (and at times try those things) to see if they work or not before i give up on them. And this can even be the case when those that i do trust (people that i know and have known for a good while) tell me that im wrong on something. Because they may be wrong themselves. And the only way that i will know if it just did not work for them and it may work for me will be for me to try it. What i will have to do is really think about the thing that im considering to see if i should try it or not before i do try it.

Coming back to the wright brothers, im sure that they were not the first people that tried to build a flying machine. And i would be willing to guess that those that tried to build an airplane and it did not work out for them either told the wright brothers (or would have told them if they could have) that they were wasting their time. Im sure that they went through a lot of trail and error before they achieved their goals. But they preserved. And in time they were successful.
 
I do think That i may be have to go into debt to do what it is that i want to do. That may very well be true. But at the same time if i can avoid that debt then that is my goal.

To be honest there is no point even asking the type of questions on forums that i have asked here (as well as other forums) as well as other questions concerning making it to a place of huge success in a band anymore. Because i have seen the types of responses that i have gotten and will get. At this point its not worth the headache to me anymore to even try to approach these types of topics from a positive and different viewpoint then most (not all i truly hope) people on drum forums. Because i just get bashed for it. So why waste my time talking about these things anymore on these forums. When it comes to talking about certain things i think that drumming forums can be a good thing. But when it comes to talking about trying be successful and trying to do things in different ways, from what i can tell most of the drum forums are useless. Because people just rag on others that believe they can truly achieve their dreams and goals and that believe that they dont have to do eveything the same way that everyone else has done them.

I find it kind of depressing that a lot of impressionable drummers will go on drum forums with a fire in their hearts to reach for their dreams expecting at least most others to feel the same way just to have everyone throw water on their fire. Just because some people have not gotten where they want to be they have a negative viewpoint and they try to project that onto others. When the others dont buy into it that are viewed as naive.

Again, if everybody thought "oh man, its too hard. Theres too much of a chance that i will fail. There are already so many people trying to do it", nobody would ever make it to a place of success (and this is not just in the music business but every other business where its tough to succeed). The people that did not chose to buy into these types of thoughts and that chose to ignore the advice of those that did are the ones that have been (and will be) successful. There is a reason why those who made it to where they want to be tell people not to listen to the naysayers. Its because they heard it all as well. And they refused to listen to the naysayers and they achieved their goals.

Im not arrogant in any way (all the people that know me can attest to this). I just truly believe that with Gods help that anything can be done. Anything! And i refuse to believe differently until God tells me that im wrong (the bible says that with God ALL things are possible). I truly believe this with every fiber of my being. Do i make mistakes? Yes, mistakes all the time. And i am always striving to learn. But i also dont believe that something cant be done just because lots of people tell me that it cant. Im sure that the wright brothers were told that trying to make an airplane was nuts and that they should just give up. But we all know what happened in that story.

I will just go and do what is in my heart to do and what i think is the best way to do things learning from the most positive people as i can as i go. And if i find that im wrong on something then i will do my best to learn what i did or am doing (or believed or am believing) wrong. And then i will do my best to correct my mistake. But i have to at least give things a good deal of thought (and at times try those things) to see if they work or not before i give up on them. And this can even be the case when those that i do trust (people that i know and have known for a good while) tell me that im wrong on something. Because they may be wrong themselves. And the only way that i will know if it just did not work for them and it may work for me will be for me to try it. What i will have to do is really think about the thing that im considering to see if i should try it or not before i do try it.

Coming back to the wright brothers, im sure that they were not the first people that tried to build a flying machine. And i would be willing to guess that those that tried to build an airplane and it did not work out for them either told the wright brothers (or would have told them if they could have) that they were wasting their time. Im sure that they went through a lot of trail and error before they achieved their goals. But they preserved. And in time they were successful.
I am sorry but this is one of the single most immature posts in the history of this forum. It's also a slap in the face to everyone who tried to help you. I for one was actually one of the people who told you to keep the dream, but I believed you had to adopt at least a dose of practicality.

Do you really think I don't understand the dream, the fire, what's in the heart etc? Do you think others here don't?

Are you serious?

Over the course of 5 years I was told by at least 100 people on this forum alone that my concepts were wrong and would lead me nowhere. However, I ignored that because behind the scenes I was adopting a clear and practical plan of action that would lead from point A to point B. People also were publicly aware of my actual abilities within the realms of music/ something you still inexplicably avoid/. I've been the epitome of your point And they refused to listen to the naysayers and they achieved their goals. Still even I'm saying your presentation lacks a great deal to be desired and is arrogant to the nth degree.


However, the primary difference between you and me was that instead of just talking about it again and again on a drum forum, and simply and naively taking it for granted that others don't get you. I've actually been out there learning things the hard way and taking hits as I go. You might also want to drop these comparisons to yourself and people like the Wright Brothers because it reveals for all to see an ego bigger than Christmas.

There are doers and there are talkers, while quite frankly those who talk don't get to lecture anyone until they've at least shown something.

Finally when invoking the name of God as a last word gimmick you might want to recall that God helps those who best help themselves.
 
Dear Drummingman,

having brushed through this thread thus far, I'm getting the same enthusiasm/denial scenario that I see all the time in business. Make no mistake about this, the music business is exactly that, a business, and probably ranks amongst the most unforgiving and fickle ones out there.

If you're really interested in ascetaining your best route to succeed, I have something to offer. Not only have I existed at the subsistence level in the music business for some years (although many years ago), I'm what you might class as a reasonably successful business man. Apart from being the managing director of a multi national company for 15 years, my current remit is establishing European operations for American corporations. I'm engaged in that roll by significant clients because I've got a track record of building successful businesses from the ground up. I'm telling you this, by way of qualifying my advice.

I'm frequently asked to review business models, from the tiny to the simply massive. I don't subscribe to the cookie cutter pattern, in fact, I'm often looking for USP in every aspect of the business. I'm all for the guy who want's to do things against the tide. There's potential benefit in stepping off the train, so long as your alternative mode of transport is viable. All this said, no matter how maverick your approach, there are certain elements that must be in/fall into place to offer you any chance of progression. Ignoring basic principals is more about taking an Icarus approach to flight than the path taken by the Wright brothers. Taking the least trodden path might, just might pay off. Who knows, you might just get a good band together, who somehow find a way of producing a market viable recording. It might just be sufficiently unique to go viral, and then just might get the multi outlet exposure to capitalize on the opportunity. You might be lucky and have someone within your band who has both the contacts and the businuss acumen to jump on the opportunity before it fades away. So yes, all things are possible, but as each milestone is reached, the odds lengthen immeasurably.

Irrespective of the path you take, there are a few elements that must fall into place.

1/ your product (yes, sorry, it's a product) must have at least 1 USP. To be enduring, preferably more.

2/ you need a prescribed mechanism in place to both ensure & maintain critical mass.

3/ your business must have clear cashflow plus P&L platform to survive even the early stages. Even though any projection is subject to wild changes, you need a format that can sustain such variations.

4/ you need a plan B!

5/ you need an exit strategy that mitigates personal finance ruin.

There's a ton more to add to that, but there's enough to chew over for now. Going forward, you need to decide whether you have the means, the time, the contacts & the knowledge to pull all of that together. The business element is not something you experiment with, because as you progress, the cost of getting it wrong isn't sustainable.

So, are you equipped & ready to go? If so, great, & good luck to you. Alternatively, you might consider concentrating on your playing and the creative side of the equation, & leave the shitty stuff to someone else.

I suggest you start by developing a product that's ready to go. By your description, you're a way off that yet. Get that in the bag, complete with some critical aclaim, then worry about how you're going to take it forward.

Remember, "EVERY SILVER LINING HAS A CLOUD"!
 
If I were you, I wouldn't get offended by what is said on a forum, it's just text you can't accurately judge how things are meant when not being face to face.

I highly doubt anyone on here is telling you to forget what you're planning to do, I think it's just people being realistic. Take on board what people are saying and use it in your development.
 
I am sorry but this is one of the single most immature posts in the history of this forum. It's also a slap in the face to everyone who tried to help you. I for one was actually one of the people who told you to keep the dream, but I believed you had to adopt at least a dose of practicality.

Do you really think I don't understand the dream, the fire, what's in the heart etc? Do you think others here don't?

Are you serious?

Over the course of 5 years I was told by at least 100 people on this forum alone that my concepts were wrong and would lead me nowhere. However, I ignored that because behind the scenes I was adopting a clear and practical plan of action that would lead from point A to point B. People also were publicly aware of my actual abilities within the realms of music/ something you still inexplicably avoid/. I've been the epitome of your point And they refused to listen to the naysayers and they achieved their goals. Still even I'm saying your presentation lacks a great deal to be desired and is arrogant to the nth degree.


However, the primary difference between you and me was that instead of just talking about it again and again on a drum forum, and simply and naively taking it for granted that others don't get you. I've actually been out there learning things the hard way and taking hits as I go. You might also want to drop these comparisons to yourself and people like the Wright Brothers because it reveals for all to see an ego bigger than Christmas.

There are doers and there are talkers, while quite frankly those who talk don't get to lecture anyone until they've at least shown something.

Finally when invoking the name of God as a last word gimmick you might want to recall that God helps those who best help themselves.


Some things just need to be said. And i said them. I personally dont care if you think the post was immature. Thats your opinion and your entitled to it. If you told me to keep the dream i thank you. But what some call practicality i call negativity and limiting mindsets that keep a person in a little box.

I think that some of the people that have posted in this thread used to have the dream and the fire. But they stopped believing they could achieve it. Thats obvious from their posts. And what else is obvious is that because they no longer believe they want everyone else that does to believe that its like winning the lottery (which is just another way of saying you dont have a chance).

I dont have to take it for granted that most others here dont get where im coming from. They made that very clear from what they have said. Im glad you have been out there doing your thing. I have also done things as well. Just because i dont post everything about my life on a forum does not mean that i have not accomplished anything.

I know that im not arrogant. I just believe that anything is possible with Gods help.
I was never comparing myself to the wright brothers. I was giving an example of people that did not listen to the naysayers (i guess you missed that).

And i NEVER invoke the name of God as a last word gimmick. This just shows all to well that you dont know me even in the least. God does help those who helps themselves for sure. And i am doing things to help myself. Again, just because i dont post everything about myself here to see if you approve does not mean that im standing still in my life.

I dont hold a grudge against you man for the things that you have said to me. But dude, you personally dont get me at all. And im really ok with that.
 
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Did you actually read my post? Pretty balanced & real world IMO.

I did. There are some points that i do agree with you on. Others not. From what i can tell i agree with most of your numbered points as they apply to going into debt with a lable and as they apply to self financing a big album and a big tour.

After thinking about it more earlier tonight i do believe that i may have to go into debt with a label. I just dont want to end up on the losing end of that deal.

I dont think that i have been in denial. I have just been trying to think of doing things in a way where my band and the band members that i play with dont end up owning more then we can pay back.

My whole reason in starting this thread was to explore different ways of funding albums and tours without the band being in such a bad financial place after they have done the album and after they have done the tour. I hate to see anybody go into debt to where they have to worry about what they are going to do to get out of it. I have heard so many horror stories about money owed killing a band. I just dont want that to happen to my band/bands.

I really want to get the busniess side of things in my head the best that i can. I have come to believe that if one takes a hands off approach to music business they are just asking for trouble. I do have a bit to go before i start another band as is. Im just trying to think ahead that way i dont find myself in a situation and then not know what to do (even though i know this is going to happen at times because i cant prepair for everything. But i can try).
 
But what some call practicality i call negativity and limiting mindsets that keep a person in a little box.?.

What could be a more limited mindset than to preach hypothetically and anonymously on a drum forum under the pretense of seeking input?

I dont have to take it for granted that most others here dont get where im coming from. They made that very clear from what they have said. Im glad you have been out there doing your thing. I have also done things as well. Just because i dont post everything about my life on a forum does not mean that i have not accomplished anything..

Maybe you have maybe you haven't. Right now you're this mysterious entity getting numerous similar comments on several drum forums. If this is a publicity gimmick it isn't working. As for publicizing more about yourself maybe you should try it. I still remain perplexed about how you avoid being seen or heard. Roy Haynes once said that the invisible don't get to lecture. Sounds right to me.

This just shows all to well that you dont know me even in the least. God does help those who helps themselves for sure. And i am doing things to help myself. Again, just because i dont post everything about myself here to see if you approve does not mean that im standing still in my life.

I dont hold a grudge against you man for the things that you have said to me. But dude, you personally dont get me at all. And im really ok with that.
Dude it isn't up to me to get you.

It also doesn't matter if you hold grudges or any of that other stuff. See that's the whole issue here. You have to first convince others that you're even worthy of that consideration. In my limited experience with this business stuff up now it's all about the clarity and transparency of your presentation. And if it takes more than 5 minutes to get you then they move on to the other million guys standing in the same line with clearer presentations. I actually know a lot about these Christian bands, including the ones going in the same direction as you, and there just as competitive and cutthroat as anything else.

Honestly, I'm always more than happy to be around as many confused guys as possible. All that means is more for me. And that really isn't a cut, that's just a straight up fact. Still nobody can say that I didn't try to help.

Have a good one man.
 
Someone mentioned it earlier but there's a heap of good information that I think would be useful for young people considering a music career. I wish I knew this stuff when I was young and idealistic. Drummingman, if you want to minimise debt Brew listed some of the things not to do.

Andy, I'm fairly fluent with corporatese but not enough so to understand your point #2

keep it simple said:
2/ you need a prescribed mechanism in place to both ensure & maintain critical mass

At the end of the day, we're not gatekeepers or failing to think outside the box, just advocating that a prudent management plan may facilitate more successful outcomes :)
 
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God's currently too busy to provide bands, marketable music and recording/touring careers.................he's all tied up giving me the strength to endure this.

Looks like he could be here a while too!!
 
God's currently too busy to provide bands, marketable music and recording/touring careers.................he's all tied up giving me the strength to endure this.

Looks like he could be here a while too!!

This is my favorite post in the thread, sums up this guy's attitude pretty perfectly... Since he refuses to listen to logic and reason and anyone who doesn't tell him exactly what he wants to hear.

Oh well, when he falls flat on his face the only thing he can do is take the "I told you so" responses everyone he asked for advice that he chose to completely ignore after the fact will give him...
 
To be honest there is no point even asking the type of questions on forums that i have asked here (as well as other forums) as well as other questions concerning making it to a place of huge success in a band anymore. Because i have seen the types of responses that i have gotten and will get. At this point its not worth the headache to me anymore to even try to approach these types of topics from a positive and different viewpoint then most (not all i truly hope) people on drum forums. Because i just get bashed for it. So why waste my time talking about these things anymore on these forums. When it comes to talking about certain things i think that drumming forums can be a good thing. But when it comes to talking about trying be successful and trying to do things in different ways, from what i can tell most of the drum forums are useless. Because people just rag on others that believe they can truly achieve their dreams and goals and that believe that they dont have to do eveything the same way that everyone else has done them.

I find it kind of depressing that a lot of impressionable drummers will go on drum forums with a fire in their hearts to reach for their dreams expecting at least most others to feel the same way just to have everyone throw water on their fire. Just because some people have not gotten where they want to be they have a negative viewpoint and they try to project that onto others. When the others dont buy into it that are viewed as naive.l.

This simply isn't true.

No one on here is telling you it can't be done.

People are giving honest advice based on "been there, done that, got burned".
Every successful musician on the planet started from no where and got to somewhere.

Of course, it is possible.

But it is difficult, there are 1001 road blocks on the way you'll have to deal with, and you have to be prepared to face them with a realistic point of view.

This post of yours show is showing the complete opposite of what you're talking about. You feel you need to give up discussing it because a few people rubbed you the wrong way. That's not a sign of you being positive, that's a sign of you backing down.

Whatever we say here is going to be minor compared to the real word.

As the saying goes,
"There are are two sides to the music business. One side is dark, seedy, cruel and mean, and there is there is the bad side..."

If you think discussing it here in a safe environment is a waste of time, how will you deal with these issues in the real world?

Most of the initial posts in this thread are saying it can be done, but you have to look at the reality. But rather than look at the reality, you're bashing people for offering real world advice.

Now who's being the negative one here?

I think every single person in this thread would love for you to be the most successful Christian Metal drummer on the planet. But if you can't take constructive criticism and see the reality of what you're up against, you'll never achieve your goals.

Anyway, back to topic, I suggest reading this book:
Hit Men: Power Brokers and Fast Money Inside the Music Business

And this one:
Bumping Into Geniuses: My Life Inside the Rock and Roll Business

And this book is a bit lighter in material, but still a good read on how one can have everything go right, but still not end up going anywhere.
Killing Bono: I Was Bono's Doppelganger
 
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