Met a guy who really likes his E kit

I've always seen E-Kits as something that is more a decision of practicality than one of love. As some people around here know, I'm a big fan of electronic approaches to music and I play with drum machines (and write my own sequencing software) and rhythm is one particular approach that is served well by electronics.

Electronic drum kits (and I own one) have always felt like a compromise to me. You get the potential soundscape that electronics provide but without the 'rigidity' that can be a big factor in the way electronic music is produced. E-kits are certainly valid as instruments but I like to treat them as a separate category of instrument, rather than trying to use them to replace acoustic kits. As a replacement, they're close to good enough for most people but I've never been convinced by electronic cymbals or snares. In a mix with a full band going, they sound fine - but on their own? No thanks.

If we treat the E-Kit as a separate instrument though, things get much more interesting. Taking the guts of the kit and using it outside of the module with a laptop you can do remarkable things. It would be relatively trivial to set up a guitarists pedalboard in software and change the settings mid-song using an E-Kit - provided they were happy with software solutions (and some of them are very, very good now). Another idea could be to trigger time-critical sound effects with one pad and then adjust the settings using another pad - you could feed an acoustic snare into software, whack on a delay and pan it or adjust the feedback or repeats using MIDI note values or velocity values. These are really good, fun things to do that can provide some superb results if you have the patience to set it up.

The beauty of it is the MIDI protocol. Anything you can in MIDI you can manipulate with an electronic drum kit - especially if it has 'note off' in the module. MIDI can do a Hell of a lot!

So if we treat E-Kits like 'real' drum kits, for me they fall a bit short, although they're 'good enough' for most Rock/Pop/Metal situations. They fall down in Jazz because of the cymbal zoning and snare zoning issues and the lack of really fine nuance that you need in Jazz. If you take a totally different approach to music in general, they can be very rewarding indeed. It just requires a bit of MIDI knowledge!
 
Part of my love of drums comes from massive kick drums that take up a lot of space
Have to agree there, NOTHING beats the feel of a 24" kick, I've played a roland before, kit was around $1,000 was surprised by how good it was but i prefer acoustics, both types of kit are good for different reasons
 
Edit: New Tricks, you paid that hack to come tune your drums!? I've been seeing his ads on CL for quite a while. I would have come over and tuned them for some beers.

I was desperate :)

I keep reading how awesome A kits are and mine was just not doing it for me.

He did teach me that the snare buzz was coming from the toms, not the snare itself. That insight was worth half the $65 . It made perfect sense when I thought about it and he completely eliminated it on all but one tom.


It's still not doing it for me so, when you are thirsty, come on down to Central Phoenix.

John

[email protected]
 
He did teach me that the snare buzz was coming from the toms, not the snare itself. That insight was worth half the $65 . It made perfect sense when I thought about it and he completely eliminated it on all but one tom.

If snare buzz is bothering you that much, then you definitely haven't fallen in love with the sound of drums.
 
Well as far as modules go you've already named 3 of the "Big 4" (Roland, Yamaha and Alesis) but the other one would be 2Box.
I've heard of life long Roland owners singing their praises and making the switch so if any company was going to knock Roland off it's perch it would probably be them.
As for support, obviously if something breaks sometimes you have no choice but to send it back to the company from whence it came. However, 9 times out of 10 I've found a solution to any e-drums problem by checking out the V-drums forum and fixing it myself.
You mentioned how expensive it was to replace mesh heads. If you were to pay Roland's extortionist prices, yeah you'd be up for some cash. But with companies like 682Drums, Z-Ed, Billy Blast,etc- all much cheaper alternatives than Roland and just as good IMO.
Same goes for triggers. $120 for Roland to replace a foam cone with a piezo on the bottom?? Highway robbery! Thankfully you could use Ddrum triggers, Quartz percussion harnesses or make them yourself if you're that way inclined.
Like I said, heaps of options and many more I haven't mentioned.

Would Pearl be on that list as well? Isn't their acoustic drum/eKit making as big a splash as they'd like?

So, you see, after all these years of playing, I must be totally passionless about the electric thing. I used to effect my own repairs on the ancient octapads back in the day and (back then) bugging technicians in person (since there wasn't really an internet at the time) for advice on what to do and I guess the one good thing about all of that is I got mad soldering skills that I use to this day on my regular audio engineer job. But somewhere along the line I added up all the time, money, and effort put into this part-time electronic drumming business and decided to stop the madness. Again, this gets back to the "why don't I just get to it" passion of acoustic drumming. I had certainly wasted years of time I could've spent practicing my acoustic craft, which is what everyone really wants anyway. So I've done that (TD-10 and Zendrum notwithstanding). Maintaining an acoustic kit is child's play next to making sure the eKit is ready to take on the nightly bashing of a busy schedule.

It's like the questions we get here all the time of folks asking "what are good intermediate cymbals because I can't afford Zildjians?" Well, sooner or later you realize you're gonna get the Zildjians (or any other pro-line cymbals) because there's really no way of getting good acoustic sounds without making the investment in the right stuff. Ekits are like that. I think people get them because of the promise of replicating an acoustic kit in a band situation and really, it's only good for maybe 40% of those situations. That other 60% is eventually going to pull you back to where you started from.

Players like Neil Peart and Omar Hakim get to have the best of both worlds when they go out to play. Bill Bruford mixed the two as well. The only person that was brave enough to use a V-Drum kit exclusively for one tour was Pat Mastellotto with King Crimson after Bill Bruford and Tony Levin left the band - and then he only did that for one tour - and I thought it was obvious why because it didn't sound as good as the real thing (as evidenced in the next tour).
 
Have both, love both. Each has its uses. For playing live, I'm back to primarily using the A-kit. But it was an E-kit that got me back into drumming after a hiatus, and my current much-tweeked E-kit makes it possible for me to practice while preserving the peace. And it is invaluable in the studio, especially when collaborating with other songwriters. The E-kit is always set up and patched up to my rig, and I can track to MIDI and send off the performance to a collaborator- who can then use whatever module or VST instrument they might like to impose whatever sounds they wish upon my performance.

Roland is certainly not the only game in town when it comes to E-kits. I'm a Hart Dynamics user for mesh-head pads, and their dual-zone brass ride is much closer to a real ride than any other electronic cymbal I've tried. Their Pro snare is also very, very nice. I use a Roland TD20 and and Alesis DM5, and also have BFD and DFH for VST sound engines. There are a lot of ways to skin that cat.

When I want my A-kit, I want it: and don't mind humping it around. When I want my E-kit, I want it: and don't mind the funny looks. Both are just tools- but sometimes, it is really convenient to have a volume knob...

I've also got an Alesis mylar-head kit that I used a few times to rehearse with a band. It is listed on Craigslist and has attracted zero attention: those are too much like a practice pad kit, for sure. I don't know if I'm ever gonna be able to unload that thing. But therein lies a lesson: If I only used that one, or one of the rubber-pad kits, I'd have an altogether different opinion of E-kits.

Oh, and don't forget Johnny "Vatos" Hernandez with Oingo Boingo. There's another fine pro who made use of an E-kit while touring- that was a big part of their sound...

Oh, well. The folks that hate 'em are always gonna hate 'em, and that's fine: everybody's milage varies.To each their own...
 
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Would Pearl be on that list as well? Isn't their acoustic drum/eKit making as big a splash as they'd like?

So, you see, after all these years of playing, I must be totally passionless about the electric thing. I used to effect my own repairs on the ancient octapads back in the day and (back then) bugging technicians in person (since there wasn't really an internet at the time) for advice on what to do and I guess the one good thing about all of that is I got mad soldering skills that I use to this day on my regular audio engineer job. But somewhere along the line I added up all the time, money, and effort put into this part-time electronic drumming business and decided to stop the madness. Again, this gets back to the "why don't I just get to it" passion of acoustic drumming. I had certainly wasted years of time I could've spent practicing my acoustic craft, which is what everyone really wants anyway. So I've done that (TD-10 and Zendrum notwithstanding). Maintaining an acoustic kit is child's play next to making sure the eKit is ready to take on the nightly bashing of a busy schedule.
The Pearl E-Pro is most definitely NOT on the list! : )
I've actually had the (dis)pleasure of having a go on one of these and was underwhelmed to say the least. Their Redbox module produces the crappiest, tinniest sounds I've ever heard and their Tru-Trac heads are like hitting a foam mattress (although that's probably because I'm used to the extra "bounciness" of mesh heads).
Their major selling point at the time was "Wow, you can take off the Tru-Trac heads, put on mylar heads and use it as an A-kit"! Well, whoopdi-doo- you can convert any A-kit into and e-kit with mesh heads and a few triggers (and you get to choose any kit you like).
I completely understand your frustrations with e-kits (God knows we all have them) and I know you said you were playing them up until 2 years ago.
The point I was trying to make is that you seem to be a tad "bitter and twisted" about your e-drumming experiences when they were still in their relative infancy and this may have skewed your judgement of present day e-kits.
Sure, many of the same short-comings are still there but with the current technology I truly believe e-kits are not as cumbersome as you may think.
 
I would love to hear Larry's review of an e-kit. Any chance you could play one at a music store?

I have a Yamaha DTX kit and love it for pracitce, built in songs that you can turn the drums on and off in, built in met, 30 different kits, volume knob and many other reasons. Its not an a kit though.

Same mechanical motions used but outcome is much less personalized.

I have a good friend who can play the most complicated, syncopated beats at any tempo at about the volume level of the average conversation and seeing that makes me want to be that good on my a kit. Dont think you could develop that if you just played an e kit.
 
The Pearl E-Pro is most definitely NOT on the list! : )
I've actually had the (dis)pleasure of having a go on one of these and was underwhelmed to say the least. Their Redbox module produces the crappiest, tinniest sounds I've ever heard and their Tru-Trac heads are like hitting a foam mattress (although that's probably because I'm used to the extra "bounciness" of mesh heads).
Their major selling point at the time was "Wow, you can take off the Tru-Trac heads, put on mylar heads and use it as an A-kit"! Well, whoopdi-doo- you can convert any A-kit into and e-kit with mesh heads and a few triggers (and you get to choose any kit you like).
I completely understand your frustrations with e-kits (God knows we all have them) and I know you said you were playing them up until 2 years ago.
The point I was trying to make is that you seem to be a tad "bitter and twisted" about your e-drumming experiences when they were still in their relative infancy and this may have skewed your judgement of present day e-kits.
Sure, many of the same short-comings are still there but with the current technology I truly believe e-kits are not as cumbersome as you may think.

Well, if it's not electricity dealing with the audio rig, I tend to be bitter and twisted around drums having to be wired and powered up. Hitting an eKit harder and harder but you get nothing back, that twists me up too. I'm just getting simpler in my old age ;)
 
I would love to hear Larry's review of an e-kit. Any chance you could play one at a music store?


I think E kits are great for practice purposes, where volume consideration is a prime consideration. More power to the people who use them for this purpose. If I had a choice between not practicing at home, or practicing on an E kit, I would go E for sure. I don't have that limitation where I live. So no E kits for me.
Reviewing an E kit at a music store....waste of time IMO. Let me review an E kit at a gig. THAT'S where my problem lies with E kits. I just don't like the sounds they make. They are good enough for practice, but for a gig? Give me real drums. I don't want perfect tones. I hear the guys playing the E drums in the music stores. It never draws me in, because half the skill is making a good tone. I naturally dismiss E tones because they are not real, they are artificial. If you hold your stick tight and tense, the A drum will pick up on that. If you hold your sticks loose and relaxed, your A drum will reflect that too. That's a drummers touch. Do E kits reflect how tight your stick is held? I'm thinking no. That's just one tiny aspect among many others.

I'm guessing that yes I could adapt quick enough with an E kit at a gig, and I could find a way to make it work....good enough. Good enough isn't the way I operate, I like to go the extra mile, heck an extra 10 miles. Plus now, geez, I have to set up some kind of monitoring system to hear myself. Negates any benefit right there. And cymbal tones are just a major portion of my playing. Major. I'm pretty sure I would have big, no HUGE issues with rubber cymbals and hi hats. And perfect drum tones are too artificial for me. It's the imperfections in tone that make drums sound human. I want music to sound human, not cyborg.
 
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