Music's deadliest genre

... stereotyping, while metal has a fashion, not everyone passionate about it wears it. Not everyone acts like the media portrays they will either, though in all honesty, metal is pretty non-existent in the media. The only time it will get coverage is if there is something stereotypically negative, like a huge fight at a sell out concert.

... Cynically, if you want to look at why these stereotypes get reinforced, by moderating public opinion to the point people start to pigeonhole each other and conform, it makes target advertising and selling product much easier.

Yep, the media loves to stereotype any group who's deemed "different" and it's always a huge oversimplification - and ultimately a misrepresentation. Still, it's great for group bonding against the common enemy, which of course shifts units - "goodly people like us" against the evil outsiders.

For whatever reason it feels good to demonise "out groups" and feel all superior ... hey, we're doing it right now and it feels pretty good :)
 
Yep, the media loves to stereotype any group who's deemed "different" and it's always a huge oversimplification - and ultimately a misrepresentation. Still, it's great for group bonding against the common enemy, which of course shifts units - "goodly people like us" against the evil outsiders.

For whatever reason it feels good to demonise "out groups" and feel all superior ... hey, we're doing it right now and it feels pretty good :)

Are you serious? For the past 10 years in the US, bikers, drug addicts and criminals have been held up as celebrities! Reality shows with misfits, hoarders and people with bad hair, bad teeth, bad odors and Wal-Mart tattoos are the most popular on television. If anything, good role models on television are hard to come by. With a few exceptions for people who lose lots of weight or have talent, good role models aren't so much demonized as ignored altogether. The media have long been fascinated with dysfunction and it's served in heaping portions these days.
 
Point one: there can be some doubt about your first sentence; I've never been a Zep fan or even that much of a Bonham fan. I don't know why that is and I may be the only DW member who doesn't list him on my top 100 list of most influential drummers - not that I disliked his playing, but it didn't totally get me off the way many other drummers did and do. But for the purpose of this discussion, it doesn't really matter, except to illustrate that I'm far from one of his fanboys.

Point two: What Bonham failed at was staying alive, and while he was, I guess you could say that he failed to properly manage his demons and all the stress and expectations that dogged him. To opine what a waste is was that he choked on his vomit while leaving the rest of the world, including his family, hanging in a lurch, while perhaps true on some level, seems overly crass and massively insensitive.

Judge away, but what was that about walking a mile in someone else's shoes?

I can walk in someone else's shoes - but I might go in a different direction!

Yes, it is clear Bonham was profoundly weak and unable to control his appetities, as is true with many people and entertainers. One of the consequences of that is being the butt of jokes long after you are gone. On the other hand, if you manage to keep it together, people may appreciate you for decades of inspiring work (see the highly judgmental comments on the Joe Morello thread).
 
I've been to some extraordinarily violent rock gigs from bands I wouldn't consider metal.

I think you've made a brilliant point on the topic of stereotyping, while metal has a fashion, not everyone passionate about it wears it. Not everyone acts like the media portrays they will either, though in all honesty, metal is pretty non-existent in the media. The only time it will get coverage is if there is something stereotypically negative, like a huge fight at a sell out concert.

It's also worth noting that very few people listen to solely one kind of music, I used to play jazz, and listen to a lot of post-rock amongst other things. Metal bands, like metal heads, are just as diverse, I could name a dozen bands, each one with as much in common with each other as Frank Sinatra and The Ramones.

Cynically, if you want to look at why these stereotypes get reinforced, by moderating public opinion to the point people start to pigeonhole each other and conform, it makes target advertising and selling product much easier.

You'd think in such a post-modern society people would be smart enough, or at least accustomed to questioning 'truths' but this certainly isn't always the case. A lot of people still just like to be told, not take responsibility for their opinions.

Heavy stuff.

Another possible outcome is that people consider the issue in all its nuance, think about it a while, and come to conclusions that are entirely different than yours.
 
I've been to some extraordinarily violent rock gigs from bands I wouldn't consider metal.

The most violent concert I was ever at in my life (and I've been to hundreds of concerts) was,

wait for it....


Journey in 1986.

People were pushing and shoving and generally getting beat up, all while listening to a band playing lots of ballads.

Where as even in a pit at a Metallica show, people tend to be pretty respectfully of making sure no one falls down and no one gets trampled, and that no one actually gets injured, even if it looks violent.
 
Are you serious? For the past 10 years in the US, bikers, drug addicts and criminals have been held up as celebrities! Reality shows with misfits, hoarders and people with bad hair, bad teeth, bad odors and Wal-Mart tattoos are the most popular on television. If anything, good role models on television are hard to come by. With a few exceptions for people who lose lots of weight or have talent, good role models aren't so much demonized as ignored altogether. The media have long been fascinated with dysfunction and it's served in heaping portions these days.

I'm sure there's nothing more joyous than being held up as a celebrity freak show. They'll encourage people to be as freaky as possible so they can encourage decent, normal folk to fear and hate them - or to love them in the same way as they love looking as a car crash, which is much the same thing. If the person dies, all the better - adds that bit of drama.
 
I'm sure there's nothing more joyous than being held up as a celebrity freak show. They'll encourage people to be as freaky as possible so they can encourage decent, normal folk to fear and hate them - or to love them in the same way as they love looking as a car crash, which is much the same thing. If the person dies, all the better - adds that bit of drama.

People can't wait to be on these shows and other people can't wait to watch them. And, in all fairness, some, like Intervention, genuinely try to help them or at least understand them. I think many of these shows, far from encouraging decent and normal folks to "hate" their subjects, actually promote tolerance and acceptance. But tolerance and acceptance aren't necessarily good things, like for self-destruction, antisocial behavior, neglect of children, drug use, sex addiction and so on. I don't hate these people (although I wish some would get their act together and become productive members of society) but I may hate their behavior.

I only half-jokingly say the Lifetime Channel should be renamed The Screwed-Up People Channel.
 
Bonham - Immigrant Song ( violence, destruction)
Immigrant song is not about violence and destruction...
It's about a gig the band were invited to play in Reykjavik and the day before they arrived the civil servants went on strike and the gig was going to be canceled.
The university prepared a concert hall for them and the response was amazing...



People need to look beyond the obvious, look beyond what they hear and see and find out what actually happens.

People eho have never heard a Slayer track still believes Angel Of Death is about Satan when if you actually read the lyrics, they're an anti war song about Josef Megale, the nefarius Auschwitz surgeon who infamously performed surgery on patients without anesthesia (such as sewing two twins to create conjoined...).
 
People can't wait to be on these shows and other people can't wait to watch them. And, in all fairness, some, like Intervention, genuinely try to help them or at least understand them. I think many of these shows, far from encouraging decent and normal folks to "hate" their subjects, actually promote tolerance and acceptance. But tolerance and acceptance aren't necessarily good things, like for self-destruction, antisocial behavior, neglect of children, drug use, sex addiction and so on. I don't hate these people (although I wish some would get their act together and become productive members of society) but I may hate their behavior.

I only half-jokingly say the Lifetime Channel should be renamed The Screwed-Up People Channel.

Getting way off the original topic, but

I think some of the obsession people have with bad tv (and I'm not one of them) is people are drawn to seeing other people's lives are more screwed up than their own.

When I was a wee little one, TV seemed to sanitized, projecting a word that is perfect. Happy Days, Leave it to Beaver re-runs, and such all portrayed that when you grow up, life is pretty good. Problems are minor, can all be solved in a 1/2 hour.

Then you grow up, and reality sets in that life isn't so picture perfect. Be it finding a job, dealing a lay off, not liking your job, living life in a cubicle or whatever, getting dumped, death of a loved one, war, politics, etc.

I think may people get this feeling that, wow, my life is screwed up because it's not that perfect TV life.

So they tune in and watch a freak show to realize, wow, as bad as stuff is, at least I'm not that bad. Or, hey, that person may be a famous TV/Movie/Music celebrity living a life I can only dream of, but they have real life problems too.

At least that is my theory. I could be wrong.

As for Bonham, yes, he was irresponsible to drink that much, but he did not deliberately kill himself. His death was accidental, compared to say Kurt Cobain or even Layne Staley who engaged in a drug that is know to kill off most of it's users.
 
Immigrant song is not about violence and destruction...
It's about a gig the band were invited to play in Reykjavik and the day before they arrived the civil servants went on strike and the gig was going to be canceled.
The university prepared a concert hall for them and the response was amazing...



People need to look beyond the obvious, look beyond what they hear and see and find out what actually happens.

People eho have never heard a Slayer track still believes Angel Of Death is about Satan when if you actually read the lyrics, they're an anti war song about Josef Megale, the nefarius Auschwitz surgeon who infamously performed surgery on patients without anesthesia (such as sewing two twins to create conjoined...).

If you read the whole thread, I was being some-what tongue in cheek and poking fun at Polly's post. Those comments weren't intended to be taken all that seriously.
 
If you read the whole thread, I was being some-what tongue in cheek and poking fun at Polly's post. Those comments weren't intended to be taken all that seriously.
I did read the whole thread ... Didn't see the tongue.


I just assumed people were playing the "Slayer = Satanists" card. Hell, I don't know anyone here.
 
When I was a wee little one, TV seemed to sanitized, projecting a word that is perfect. Happy Days, Leave it to Beaver re-runs, and such all portrayed that when you grow up, life is pretty good. Problems are minor, can all be solved in a 1/2 hour.

Then you grow up, and reality sets in that life isn't so picture perfect. Be it finding a job, dealing a lay off, not liking your job, living life in a cubicle or whatever, getting dumped, death of a loved one, war, politics, etc.

I think may people get this feeling that, wow, my life is screwed up because it's not that perfect TV life.

I've posted this before, but I think it's worth another spin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTN3s2iVKKI

Great post, DED. The Cobain point is interesting. I did the standard rock muso thing when I was young but I never did smack. Given my addictive personality, I knew that it would be an inevitable one-way street so I was cautious. But then again, when peers were quitting their jobs to play music I always hung on to the security of the day job.

That devil-may-care attitude is something many good musos bring to the table. It takes a certain bravado to get up there night after night, bearing in mind that public speaking was always commonly listed one of people's greatest fears. Musos are usually different. Women have always known that.
 
Another possible outcome is that people consider the issue in all its nuance, think about it a while, and come to conclusions that are entirely different than yours.

I'm happy for that to be the case, people are welcome to disagree with anything I say.

I know the media where you are is different to the media here, but the media I was referring to was the news and print media like papers, news broadcasts and even current affairs shows.

I wasn't really referring to reality television, though Polly made a good point about that.

How the public views the news here in Australia is almost completely controlled by a few men who have risen to the top of the capitalist dog pile to own every notable private media outlet.

Cable is a lot less common here in Australia, 95% or more of the people just watch free to air, and there are a lot less channels.
 
I wasn't really referring to reality television, though Polly made a good point about that.

A bit off topic, but Maury Povich is the ultimate scumbag. His show was on TV in the gym today, and he has couples who go on the air and wait for the results of paternity tests to see who the real father is. When the results are announced, the mother shouts, cries and then runs all over the set trying to beat the real (or not real) father. The crowd goes wild cheering it on. Society has really sunk to an all time low, if this passes for entertainment.
 
A bit off topic, but Maury Povich is the ultimate scumbag. His show was on TV in the gym today, and he has couples who go on the air and wait for the results of paternity tests to see who the real father is. When the results are announced, the mother shouts, cries and then runs all over the set trying to beat the real (or not real) father. The crowd goes wild cheering it on. Society has really sunk to an all time low, if this passes for entertainment.

Agreed. I think one of the worst examples I've seen was some plastic surgery meets wedding contest where people won challenges to get more plastic surgery before their big day....
 
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