A Little bit of Theory

Coldhardsteel

Gold Member
I think I have too much theory.

Have you ever come across a drummer that feels unappreciated by his band members how play smaller instruments or the singer that doesn't lug anything around? Or that they're practically ignored on-stage?

Well, here's my beef:

The psychology of a good show(let's say a heavy modern rock show) is that the audience doesn't feel alienated by the band. They want to have fun, which is getting involved in a way. This can be achieved the best by people they can see the faces of, or by those who move to the music, do crazy sh*t, all that jazz.

As drummers, we're kind of limited in terms of movement a little, but we can still act crazy. I mean, c'mon, we're the guy hitting stuff.

But, there is an important factor that many fellow metal drummers fail to understand. They neglect the "face-time" that they need to get with the crowd. Kind of hard to do that with a china completely blocking out your face.

Thoughts, brethren?
 
I think it's a team effort. Everyone has a role in music but we may or may not have a role with the show. At the very least you'd want your vocalist to be connecting with audiences.
 
Move the china, and I too have been told I have a great face for radio.
 
I'm not a metal drummer but I learned a long time ago that People hear what they see.

I always try to make contact with the audience.
I will acknowledge people from the throne as I play.

The key is to just make a one or two-second contact with the person that you are looking at and then move on to the next target.
Then go back to looking down or something for a while until it is time to look up and do the contact thing again.

Sometimes if I make eye contact with someone while I'm smashing a cymbal I can see their head move back as I strike the pie. it's amazing when that happens!
 
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CHS, the only thing you can do is to make the best of what you do have.
Like Bob said, you can connect w/ the audience w/ eye contact.
Granted we are way more hidden, but you do what you can.
As far as feeling underappreciated, best to just drop it. No good can come from that, it would probably be viewed as whiney.

I would say that it's the front peoples primary responsibility (more than the drummer) to get the crowd involved. Too many front guys just stare at their necks thinking how cool they think they are. How boring. I want to see people's eyes, I want to see them be a part of things, reacting to the others, not, "look at me look at my instrument".
 
Alright, just to clear some thing up:

  • I am not the person I am referring to in my original post.
  • Larry, "CHS" doesn't read well for me. Am I allowed to request a new abreviation?

At any rate, I personally set up specifically so I can get a good look at whoever I might play for. It also feels a bit more comfortable to have a bunch of cymbals to my left and right and not in front of me. Just a preference.

Is it generally agreed that arrogant guitarists get on our nerves?
 
What abbreviation would you prefer aside from CHS?
Larry didn't mean anything by his acronym. We do this kind of thing all the time around here.
You should see what he calls me sometimes.

From your post, I also got the impression that it was you that was searching for ways to communicate with the audience.

I also thought that your band mates wouldn't listen to you. Get used to that! There is no answer for that question.
The reason that drums are so loud is because no one ever hears the drummer while he speaks!
I thank God for that everyday! I don't get mad, I get even!
 
In rock music, there needs to be points in the songs where the drummer connects with the audience through signature fills . . .

I went to see Styx last night. If you listen to the the intro to the pre-chorus of Come Sail Away and the last verse of Lady, you will see what I mean. People were air drumming:

Come Sail Away 2:26 or 4:30

Lady esp 3:01 (One of the earliest, if not the first power ballad.)

totally Old School . . . that's why people still love classic rock . .

or how about this . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ddZU5Ipqg
 
Hey Ken, Did you know that Styx's music had Satanical messages in it?
Remember that rumor from the 80's?
I loved that band!
Yes, Classic Rock attention getter fill techniques,
Good Answer!
 
Hey Ken, Did you know that Styx's music had Satanical messages in it?
Remember that rumor from the 80's?
I loved that band!
Yes, Classic Rock attention getter fill techniques,
Good Answer!

remember it? That was the defense at my trial . . .

They are a great band. Isn't the river Styx that which leads to Hades? Maybe they weren't rumors.
 
I set everything low and I sit real tall with my head above everything so I can see out and people can see in.

They are there to SEE me. If they just wanted to HEAR me, they'd be playing me out of a set of speakers. I just try to deliver what people want to see, because that is what playing live is about. Meeting others through the aid of a musical instrument to speak your personality.
 
Sorry Coldhardsteel, no disrespect intended, quite the contrary. Anyway I agree with your observation that the audience should not feel alienated by the band. I see that way more (audience being alienated) than the reverse. And I though that your OP was referring to you because of the words "here's my beef". OK so now I'm straight.

The one thing you said that I found surprising was that you said you set up speciffically so you can get a good look at whoever you might play for. I would love that too but I'm always getting crammed as far back as possible, 24/7. Must be nice to have that much freedom in setting up.

However, it doesn't serve us well as a group to publicly agree that certain types of guitarists get on our collective nerves. Some things are better left unsaid. If you felt that way chances are others do too, nuff said. Another valid POV could be that without those people, some of the greatest music in the world may have never happened.
 
remember it? That was the defense at my trial . . .

They are a great band. Isn't the river Styx that which leads to Hades? Maybe they weren't rumors.

According to mythology, EVERYONE who perished had to cross the Styx to get to the land of the dead. This myth predates the concept of Satan. Since everybody had to cross the river Styx, the concept made no judgments of good or evil. You just had to remember to give some silver to Charon the boatman to ensure your safe crossing.

Good thing that idea is just a myth right? I've never heard of any soul taking money with them into the afterlife....
 
Sorry Coldhardsteel, no disrespect intended, quite the contrary. Anyway I agree with your observation that the audience should not feel alienated by the band. I see that way more (audience being alienated) than the reverse. And I though that your OP was referring to you because of the words "here's my beef". OK so now I'm straight.

The one thing you said that I found surprising was that you said you set up speciffically so you can get a good look at whoever you might play for. I would love that too but I'm always getting crammed as far back as possible, 24/7. Must be nice to have that much freedom in setting up.

However, it doesn't serve us well as a group to publicly agree that certain types of guitarists get on our collective nerves. Some things are better left unsaid. If you felt that way chances are others do too, nuff said. Another valid POV could be that without those people, some of the greatest music in the world may have never happened.

Oh, I didn't take any disrespect at all, I should be the one apologizing for coming off as defensive. Just call me Steels, man.

Yeah, it's a battle of psychology. Next time you're gigging, try to check that out, see if I'm right or wrong.

Well, when I say set up, I mean my kit is set in a certain configuration. There's not much we drummers can do about being pushed to the back of the stage, we have a big instrument.

Yes, yes, I know, don't want to be offensive to guitarists. I personally love my guitarist, but the guitarist for the power-metal group I drum for is... A power-metal guitarist. Hope that's not too ambiguous.
 
Did you know that Styx's music had Satanical messages in it?

I didn't Bob...but now that I do, that's just the sort of thing that will prompt me to buy an album.

Coldie (fwiw that's what we call beer in Oz....mmmm...beer. Coldhardsteel just takes waaaay too long to type, so i hope it's preferable to CHS),

1. We don't choose our nicknames, they are chosen for us. If we did, I wouldn't have a good mate called MARILYN!! :)
2. Back on topic, I've always loved the fact that I could skulk around at the back of the stage and leave the others to their general front-of-house wankery. I can still entertain without stage dives and leaping off tall speaker cabinets in a single bound. I don't feel limited nor do I feel out of the action.

Seated back there hidden by a cymbal or two..........I'm right where I wanna be.
 
I can definitely relate with you. When I see a band live, one of the things I love most about it is seeing them enjoy performing. Especially if we're talking about a loud rock band as opposed to an acoustic guitarist or a smal jazz group (although Thelonious Monk was a notoriously good dancer...)

As far as the difference between the band members, it can be tough to seem involved when we're confined to our drum throne. But I definitely hate to see drummers hiding behind their kit, totally indifferent to the music or the audience. Like pollyanna said, at least the frontman/woman should feel the need to engage the audience more. I think it naturally adds so much energy and feeling to the music. I've played a gig as a guitarist/singer before, and I felt that moving my body with the music and making eye contact with the audience helped me get into the music more easily.

This thread reminds me of a video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E
 
According to mythology, EVERYONE who perished had to cross the Styx to get to the land of the dead. This myth predates the concept of Satan. Since everybody had to cross the river Styx, the concept made no judgments of good or evil. You just had to remember to give some silver to Charon the boatman to ensure your safe crossing.

Good thing that idea is just a myth right? I've never heard of any soul taking money with them into the afterlife....

Sounds right . . see how that Christian Mythology creeps in even when you least expect it.

It is funny people thought that because Styx has got to be one of the most wholesome of American rock bands. I would bet that today they find it an honor to have been nominated by the insanity known as the PMRC.
 
That's what the song "Come Sail Away" was about, Sailing across the Styx River with Charon.
LOL!
I remember LAMO back when that report came out. It actually made the network news!
Not Just FOX! Real Network News!
 
That's what the song "Come Sail Away" was about, Sailing across the Styx River with Charon.
LOL!
I remember LAMO back when that report came out. It actually made the network news!
Not Just FOX! Real Network News!

It's LMAO. Catch up, old-timer.

And the quip about FOX pretty much made my day.
 
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