Field Trip to the... Apple Store?

As a parent, I will weigh in. First, I think it is very commendable that the OP is giving his time to work with kids. Job or not, this is definitely not for everybody, especially for a 21 year old when most people his age would be more than happy to let someone else do it. Kids by themselves are a handful, let alone in groups.

I find this field trip pointless. Kids already know how to use these devices. They don't care about RAM, processor speed, blah blah blah. If I was paying my hard earned money to enroll my kid in an after school program, and this was their field trip I would be dumbfounded. Might as well just give them some crayons. A field trip should be educational, informative, fun, and engaging (this is what gets me). Kids burying themselves in modern devices is already a problem. This is what they do now. Are they really learning and being engaged when they do this crap on their own anyhow?

When I was a kid we went to museums, the planetarium, took a ride on a train after learning the history of railroads, and went to see plays. Going to the mall to play games on a tablet is nonsense. Might as well have an XBOX at the youth center.
 
You said "locked in to the PC hardware", but there's nothing physical about the hardware locking one in- only the software, in that many apps are Mac-exclusive, but alternatives always exist on Windows. Furthermore, practically any file created on a Mac can be opened on a Windows PC (and to a lesser extent, Linux)- anyone is free to switch at any time.

Sure, Apple would like to keep Mac OS on Macs, but, uh... they can't.
 
As a parent, I will weigh in. First, I think it is very commendable that the OP is giving his time to work with kids. Job or not, this is definitely not for everybody, especially for a 21 year old when most people his age would be more than happy to let someone else do it. Kids by themselves are a handful, let alone in groups.

I find this field trip pointless. Kids already know how to use these devices. They don't care about RAM, processor speed, blah blah blah. If I was paying my hard earned money to enroll my kid in an after school program, and this was their field trip I would be dumbfounded. Might as well just give them some crayons. A field trip should be educational, informative, fun, and engaging (this is what gets me). Kids burying themselves in modern devices is already a problem. This is what they do now. Are they really learning and being engaged when they do this crap on their own anyhow?

When I was a kid we went to museums, the planetarium, took a ride on a train after learning the history of railroads, and went to see plays. Going to the mall to play games on a tablet is nonsense. Might as well have an XBOX at the youth center.

Thanks for the insight. I'm just trying to get a feel for what others think about this, not for any ultimate purpose or anything, but just because it irks me. I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

You said "locked in to the PC hardware", but there's nothing physical about the hardware locking one in- only the software, in that many apps are Mac-exclusive, but alternatives always exist on Windows. Furthermore, practically any file created on a Mac can be opened on a Windows PC (and to a lesser extent, Linux)- anyone is free to switch at any time.

Sure, Apple would like to keep Mac OS on Macs, but, uh... they can't.

This is true. I always get a chuckle when I see a Mac running Windows, or a PC running IOS. Interfaces aside, my interpretation of what Watso said was that Apple wishes to lock them in as customers, making them believe that they have the superior product, or at the very least, to make them so familiar with their product that they don't consider any alternatives. Just my observation.
 
See, but they kind of do have a superior product IMO. They've been matched and surpassed in the mobile space, but no other manufacturer has been able to match them in the PC space. Samsung, Sony, and Google have come close but ultimately failed on their software. Asus is getting there, though.

Of course, this is only my opinion, as someone who spends too much time on tech news sites.
 
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Thanks for the insight. I'm just trying to get a feel for what others think about this, not for any ultimate purpose or anything, but just because it irks me. I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

The half arsed approach to a field trip irks me more than anything Apple may have said and done. The fact that the very best idea that someone could come up with was to take the kids to a shopping mall is the real failure here......regardless of whether or not Apple tried to "lock them in" once they had their attention or not.

.................. Apple wishes to lock them in as customers, making them believe that they have the superior product, or at the very least, to make them so familiar with their product that they don't consider any alternatives. .

Which pretty much brings them into line with every other business (both big and small) out there, no?

I'm yet to hear a company whose marketing campaign involves sending customers out the door, straight into the waiting arms of the competition.
 
See, but they kind of do have a superior product IMO. They've been matched and surpassed in the mobile space, but no other manufacturer has been able to match them in the PC space. Samsung, Sony, and Google have come close but ultimately failed on their software. Asus is getting there, though.

Of course, this is only my opinion, as someone who spends too much time on tech news sites.

Oh I don't mean to compare Apple products to others', I just meant that statement in relation to what their marketing is trying to achieve, which leads me to PFOG's statement.

The half arsed approach to a field trip irks me more than anything Apple may have said and done. The fact that the very best idea that someone could come up with was to take the kids to a shopping mall is the real failure here......regardless of whether or not Apple tried to "lock them in" once they had their attention or not.



Which pretty much brings them into line with every other business (both big and small) out there, no?

I'm yet to hear a company whose marketing campaign involves sending customers out the door, straight into the waiting arms of the competition.

I agree with you on both counts, actually. I think the school should know better than to go along with it, however. That's part of my concern. I think the marketing is definitely brilliant, but I'm disappointed with the school.
 
You said "locked in to the PC hardware", but there's nothing physical about the hardware locking one in- only the software, in that many apps are Mac-exclusive, but alternatives always exist on Windows. Furthermore, practically any file created on a Mac can be opened on a Windows PC (and to a lesser extent, Linux)- anyone is free to switch at any time.

Sure, Apple would like to keep Mac OS on Macs, but, uh... they can't.

Actually, I said "locked into their overpriced PC hardware". Ever since macs made the switch away from actually being different in terms of hardware, now they're essentially just selling expensive x86-based computers. There's literally no reason why people wouldn't be able to install mac os on their own hardware, except that apple says no, and intentionally makes it hard.

It's how their entire system works. They're trying to make sure that every technology dollar you spend is spent at their store, on their products, and at whatever high price they dream up.

I can't really think of any other OS that's designed not to work on hardware not put together by the authors of that software. There's both positive and negative sides to this, but that's what I meant by locked in.
 
Right, most of them just don't cost as much as apple products do, adding just a bit more sting to the lowly conditions and pay for the people making those products for apple.

Hey! Maybe apple should foot the bill for the kids to go to china and see the actual production process! They'd learn a hell of a lot more from that than playing angry birds! Of course, since we know the motivation here is brainwashing children with branding, I don't think a trip to the factory would work in their favor.

For the record, the last time the manufacturer had a job call for employees, thousands of locals showed up for the jobs. I'm not sure what computer you are using but if you think the Chinese folks that made you computer or the parts to such are paid any more that the folks at this plant that also make HP et.al. then you are dreaming. But leave it to an Apple "hater" to turn a discussion on field trips to another bashing of Apple. Learn your facts before making yourself look silly. A field trip to the ballpark, the pizza shop, and others are done for the same reason and have no other purpose than to sell product. Welcome to the big bad world of the 2000's.

And as far as being locked in, when my computer doesn't work I call Apple. I don't spend an hour on the phone with HP only to be told it is a Windows issue only to spend an hour on the phone with them to hear it is an HP problem. That is worth a few bucks to me. I know Macs are expensive,and wish they were less, but pay for their excellent function and customer service. And this thread is not the place to air out your laundry.
 
For the record, the last time the manufacturer had a job call for employees, thousands of locals showed up for the jobs.
Well, duh. Why on earth would anybody work those conditions unless they had no choice to feed themselves?

I'm not sure what computer you are using but if you think the Chinese folks that made you computer or the parts to such are paid any more that the folks at this plant that also make HP et.al. then you are dreaming.
I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that since apple is able to charge more because of their locked down system, marketing and loyal fanbase, they should in turn focus on how they make the product. It's a broken system all around, but apple is able to profit the most from it.

But leave it to an Apple "hater" to turn a discussion on field trips to another bashing of Apple.
I don't hate apple per-say. I grew up using apple computers. It didn't take me long to figure out all the disadvantages on the apple system for someone like myself, though... And more and more I just see things that disgust me from a company that claims to care and be "different". I literally see cult-like behavior from supporters. Frankly, I enjoy correcting apple fanboys much more than I actually hate apple.

Learn your facts before making yourself look silly.
Oh, please. I've worked in tech all my life since the age of 14 and am respected in my local fields. I think the "facts" you believe I'm wrong on are actually more relate-able to your lack of catching my point.

A field trip to the ballpark,
Sounds like a much, much, much better idea than a class trip to the apple retail store.

the pizza shop,
I doubt the pizza shop will do a showcase on their product line for the kids, or start planting seeds that their pizza is better than other pizza. I also doubt that the methods they show the kids for making pizza will only apply to that shops pizza oven and equipment, which naturally costs more than the competition.

and others are done for the same reason and have no other purpose than to sell product. Welcome to the big bad world of the 2000's.
Maybe the kids will buy a pendant, but a day at the ballpark could be plenty educational if the teacher takes responsibility and gives the kids an understanding of the science and physics behind the game. Huge difference from handing the kids off to apple employees for a pre-cooked presentation and "learning" show where they learn to use expensive/exclusive products they don't necessarily need. It's not an introduction to programming or development, it's not learning how the stuff is made, it's a apple showcase where they try to get kids exited about their product and the related apps. This is not appropriate for public school children in my opinion.

And as far as being locked in, when my computer doesn't work I call Apple. I don't spend an hour on the phone with HP only to be told it is a Windows issue only to spend an hour on the phone with them to hear it is an HP problem. That is worth a few bucks to me. I know Macs are expensive,and wish they were less, but pay for their excellent function and customer service.
Awesome. That's great. The benefits of a locked in system as I mentioned existed. I'm not going to argue that some people are better off in a controlled locked down system. I would never give my mother anything but a mac, she needs her hand held and paying more than the hardware is worth is an okay trade off in her case. At least she's not one of those apple users who stands in lines for days, or constantly tells me how much better her computer is than mine.

And this thread is not the place to air out your laundry.
I don't think it's your place to tell me that. This is the off-topic lounge, my responses were related to the thread, centered around the main issue, and yes, included some of my related opinion. There's nothing wrong with it here, and I highly doubt that the thread author complained to you about my conduct. If you don't like what I have to say, don't respond to it and it's not your problem anymore.
 
I think that it is important to remember that Apple was once the loser to Microsoft in the computer game. Apple has overcome many odds to be a contender today. Their manufacturing process is no different than any other manufacturer throughout the world.
They do what they have to in order to survive in the real world of taxes, stockholders, and balance sheets.
Exploiting the Chinese labor force, and advertising to children is all just part of the game.
The cereal companies, beer companies, and cigarette companies did the same to us as we were coming up.
I would rather have Apple courting children on field trips than cigarette and beer companies.
Every kid on the planet knows what an iPhone is. They also know all about the iPad, etc.
Do you really think that they were swindled into thinking about Apple products from the field trip?
 
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Right. "Learning" about apple's locked down proprietary technologies in their retail store is just as beneficial as a non-branded actual technology or computer class in the f'n school.

Apple can do anything they want. Their marketing is too good and their fanboys will always defend them.

My point wasn't really about whether the brand was Apple or not. My point was that they're actually learning.
 
I am not a fan of Apple and I'm not a fan of Microsoft. I don't think the deeper element of this thread has anything to do with either company.

What this field trip speaks to, IMHO, is the casual, indeed even welcoming, view we take toward corporate influence in our lives. It has gotten to the point where marketing has wormed its way into nearly every corner of the public space, and corporations don't do this for your good, they do it for theirs. In this case, for example, the social psychologists know all about the effects of early imprinting. It's the long term soft sell. Apple is by no means alone in this. They are like virtually every other corporate entity trying to increase market share and profits.

I am old enough to remember when our civic institutions were supported by their communities. Any and every town had a Veterans Field or a Memorial Auditorium or a City Stadium. Today, those structures still exist but now instead they're called Pepsi Arena or AT&T Auditorium or Citi Stadium. Our communities are "brought to you by" any number of companies simply because they bought naming rights to a marquee on a structure that was built and financed by the community for the community's benefit. The very infrastructure of our society is being pilfered from us to be used as a vehicle to increase someone's bottom line. Our buildings have become billboards. Our clothes have become advertisements. We send our children to stores and call them field trips.

And we don't seem to mind.
 
I am not a fan of Apple and I'm not a fan of Microsoft. I don't think the deeper element of this thread has anything to do with either company.

What this field trip speaks to, IMHO, is the casual, indeed even welcoming, view we take toward corporate influence in our lives. It has gotten to the point where marketing has wormed its way into nearly every corner of the public space, and corporations don't do this for your good, they do it for theirs. In this case, for example, the social psychologists know all about the effects of early imprinting. It's the long term soft sell. Apple is by no means alone in this. They are like virtually every other corporate entity trying to increase market share and profits.

I am old enough to remember when our civic institutions were supported by their communities. Any and every town had a Veterans Field or a Memorial Auditorium or a City Stadium. Today, those structures still exist but now instead they're called Pepsi Arena or AT&T Auditorium or Citi Stadium. Our communities are "brought to you by" any number of companies simply because they bought naming rights to a marquee on a structure that was built and financed by the community for the community's benefit. The very infrastructure of our society is being pilfered from us to be used as a vehicle to increase someone's bottom line. Our buildings have become billboards. Our clothes have become advertisements. We send our children to stores and call them field trips.

And we don't seem to mind.

A major part of this arena naming is revenue opportunity
because of the salaries demanded by athletes . We as a community
allowed this to happen by continuing to go to games. All companies
are in business to make money and will use any
means available . And we don't seem to mind.
Do we really think a field trip to the zoo or art gallery or museum
is done just for education . Or is it done so that the kids can talk mom
and dad to go back with the whole family at 10 dollars per?
Who knows ? But I think to espouse that Apple does it purely
to " indoctrinate " young minds into its "cult like" company is childish at best.
When I was in school any field trip required a permission slip signed by a parent,
These parents must not have minded.
 
A major part of this arena naming is revenue opportunity
because of the salaries demanded by athletes . We as a community
allowed this to happen by continuing to go to games. All companies
are in business to make money and will use any
means available . And we don't seem to mind.
Do we really think a field trip to the zoo or art gallery or museum
is done just for education . Or is it done so that the kids can talk mom
and dad to go back with the whole family at 10 dollars per?
Who knows ? But I think to espouse that Apple does it purely
to " indoctrinate " young minds into its "cult like" company is childish at best.
When I was in school any field trip required a permission slip signed by a parent,
These parents must not have minded.

There is a difference though, between the zoo and the apple store. Getting to see exotic animals up close is a new experience for children who have not been to a zoo before. It isn't like giraffes just wander the plains here. Penguins do not inhabit our coastlines. Monkeys are not in our forests. Apple products, on the other hand, are everywhere.

As far as these outfits doing so in order to get the kids to convince the parents to go back at $10 a ticket, I just signed a permission slip on Friday that allows my daughter to take a field trip to a local art museum. We have been once already, and oh yeah, it is free to the public. Alice Walton donated the money for the museum, and the general admission is sponsored by, wait for it, Walmart. Obviously every company is not just out to make a buck off of imprinting to our children. Unless you live here, you would have no idea that Walmart even has anything to do with the museum.

http://crystalbridges.org/
 
A major part of this arena naming is revenue opportunity because of the salaries demanded by athletes . We as a community
allowed this to happen by continuing to go to games.

Partly. Some of this happened because team owners threatened to leave and the politicians thought it would give them a black eye so they either dropped the taxes, built them a new stadium or did something similar. The loss of revenue had to come from somewhere. As ridiculous as I think it is to pay people tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars to chase after a ball, never forget that the owners are the ones operating a monopoly and pulling down the real cash.


All companies are in business to make money and will use any means available . And we don't seem to mind.

No, I disagree. Many people mind quite a bit! In spite of the constant supportive drumbeat from CNBC, Fox Business, etc., there are a lot of people who do not buy the line that Laissez-faire capitalism is a panacea for the world's ills. In fact I would argue that it is only the most hard core Randist who wouldn't mind if a company used "any means available to make money".

Do we really think a field trip to the zoo or art gallery or museum is done just for education . Or is it done so that the kids can talk mom and dad to go back with the whole family at 10 dollars per?

One quick example. Our local zoo is a community supported non-profit. Kids go there and are taught about animals, habitat, ecology, etc. The kids are being exposed to things face to face that they wouldn't be otherwise. They learn about some real science, science that is not "of the moment" like technology. Sure, iPads are nice. I have one, my wife has one. We also have some TVs and a microwave. They're nice, too. We have no allegiance to any of them though. They're just tools and tomorrow will bring better tools. Learning how to use a tool is useful but let's not conflate the tool with the thing we're actually trying to do.

Yes, there is an admission fee at the local zoo (during the winter it's free) but what do they do with the proceeds? They pay the operational costs and fund the process of education. So even if the field trip does lure the kid and family back, the ticket goes to sustain the educational mission for the next round of kids.
 
There is a difference though, between the zoo and the apple store. Getting to see exotic animals up close is a new experience for children who have not been to a zoo before. It isn't like giraffes just wander the plains here. Penguins do not inhabit our coastlines. Monkeys are not in our forests. Apple products, on the other hand, are everywhere.

As far as these outfits doing so in order to get the kids to convince the parents to go back at $10 a ticket, I just signed a permission slip on Friday that allows my daughter to take a field trip to a local art museum. We have been once already, and oh yeah, it is free to the public. Alice Walton donated the money for the museum, and the general admission is sponsored by, wait for it, Walmart. Obviously every company is not just out to make a buck off of imprinting to our children. Unless you live here, you would have no idea that Walmart even has anything to do with the museum.

http://crystalbridges.org/

And of course Walmart is not out to make money and the money used for the museum
isn't a tax wrote off ..
 
I am not a fan of Apple and I'm not a fan of Microsoft. I don't think the deeper element of this thread has anything to do with either company.

What this field trip speaks to, IMHO, is the casual, indeed even welcoming, view we take toward corporate influence in our lives. It has gotten to the point where marketing has wormed its way into nearly every corner of the public space, and corporations don't do this for your good, they do it for theirs. In this case, for example, the social psychologists know all about the effects of early imprinting. It's the long term soft sell. Apple is by no means alone in this. They are like virtually every other corporate entity trying to increase market share and profits.

I am old enough to remember when our civic institutions were supported by their communities. Any and every town had a Veterans Field or a Memorial Auditorium or a City Stadium. Today, those structures still exist but now instead they're called Pepsi Arena or AT&T Auditorium or Citi Stadium. Our communities are "brought to you by" any number of companies simply because they bought naming rights to a marquee on a structure that was built and financed by the community for the community's benefit. The very infrastructure of our society is being pilfered from us to be used as a vehicle to increase someone's bottom line. Our buildings have become billboards. Our clothes have become advertisements. We send our children to stores and call them field trips.

And we don't seem to mind.

Epic post Jim. The corporate brainwashing that's SO apparent in this thread.... completely sickens and saddens me. A field trip to a retail store is so irresponsible from an educational standpoint. The people who allow and condone these kinds of "field trips"..... What's the opposite of respect? That's how I feel towards them.
 
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