Keith Moon

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I think this pretty well sums up what people love about Moonie. He played garage style with all its power, spontaneity, freedom and fire ... but he perfected it like no one else.

Neil Peart was a big fan. That's doesn't mean you have to be, of course. Just saying ...
I just slipped back into my protect Neil Peart posture for a post. I am ok now. :)
 
Moon was the guy who inspired me to pickup a set of sticks. For the longest time I wanted to play the drums but I guess I never quite got the motivation. About a few months ago I got into this serious Who listening stage, and hearing his drumming made me want to see what I could do with a set of sticks in my hands. Ever since drumming has been the only thing I can think about, RIP Moonie.
 
Moon was a huge part of a theatrical band that used visuals and emotions to enlist their fans. Moon was a favorite of fans who appriciated the "show" first then the playing ability. I saw him 2 or 3 times and other than having tons of energy and being a total maniac I heard nothing that any drug induced half way talented drummer couldn't come up with. Sorry but there was NO groove every established, he blew every ending and listened to the guitarist (out of tune) instead of the bassists and there was obviously something going on between the bass player and him. They never hooked up once they never "looked" at each other once that I can recall. Free styling belongs in a garage but when you come along in the 60s with the most impressional generation that was loaded on drugs for concerts anything could happen. If someone is thinking that Townshed is a great guitarists thats ok, I thought he was a horrible lead player who was lucky that he did all his best work in a studio because live he simply was not very good. Same for the drummer and in my opinion the bass player held it together and was a decent enough talent to get them by live.
Playing power chords and performing over the top free form is a talent in it self. I'm not sure where the performance ends and the music begins!! Wrecking gear at the end of the show impressed some folks (again drugged out kids) for me after seeing them live I wished they did it at the beginning of the night. Free form jamming needs to be left to the pros with talent not some kids that are very "limited" in what they know.
To suggest that Kieth Moon is a great drummer "All Time"!! Wow thats really abusing the word Great! A great Showman at that time?? Yes! A talented musician?? In a studio were the jammin was limited, OK! Live?? Not for me, no concept of beat, no rythmic qualities, no sense of timing, how many single rolled patterns can you take??? Horrible cymbal work, just thrashing and crashing, playing on the edge of the cynbals to produce more noise (fill?) Enough, my rant is over!! Guess you had to be there, and straight too hahahaha! ................................................................................Doc.
 
... other than having tons of energy and being a total maniac I heard nothing that any drug induced half way talented drummer couldn't come up with.

I think not ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4BBQMjbX3c ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4VUVOOYARg Moonie played the right parts for the songs.

He was such a character that it overshadowed the fact that there was more imagination in his playing than he's credited for ... plus quick thinking and insane amounts of energy. The showmanship was just a bonus.


Free form jamming needs to be left to the pros with talent not some kids that are very "limited" in what they know.

Um, The Who might not have been session or jazz guys but they were pros ... in fact, they were so pro that they didn't have to teach to help pay the bills like many pros do :)
 
If I think the drummer played right part for the songs, i should be lying . Keith Moon played the way he felt like when it was recorded in the studio. Then he played like he felt when they played the same song live. He never played the same way like Neil Peart or any other great drummers, which seems so fascinating to me, which shows there are numerous ways to back up (or lead) a song with drums, with absolutely no rules. Keith Moon is still my favourite drummer... less is always less.. sometimes!

..and he was lucky to have Townshend, Daltrey and Enwhistle to support him which is extremely rare to have these days in bands.

"Eminence Front" by Kenny Jones-- sounds so dead with the groovy beat!, If Moon were alive, he would have come up with something.
 
I was never a fan of Keith Moon. His style is always so sloppy and, a lot of the time, overplayed. And if there's one groove that makes my blood boil it's definately "You Better", or at least I think that's what it's called. It is just so annoying and never goes anywhere.

Now, I'm not saying he's terrible. He's been a big influence to many drummers, but I just don't like his style.

"You Better You Bet" was written and recorded by Pete Townshend in 1981, 3 years after Keith Moon died. Keith Moon is widely regarded as one of the best Rock N' Roll drummers who ever lived. His drumming can be described as "Lively Precision". Give The Who Live At Leeds a good listen and tell me he wasn't amazing. Young Man Blues, Amazing Journey/Sparks and an extended jam version of My Generation all stand out as some of the best drumming Rock has ever known. I guarantee you wouldn't be able to play and sound half as good he did on that live album.
 
Moon was a huge part of a theatrical band that used visuals and emotions to enlist their fans. Moon was a favorite of fans who appriciated the "show" first then the playing ability. I saw him 2 or 3 times and other than having tons of energy and being a total maniac I heard nothing that any drug induced half way talented drummer couldn't come up with. Sorry but there was NO groove every established, he blew every ending and listened to the guitarist (out of tune) instead of the bassists and there was obviously something going on between the bass player and him. They never hooked up once they never "looked" at each other once that I can recall. Free styling belongs in a garage but when you come along in the 60s with the most impressional generation that was loaded on drugs for concerts anything could happen. If someone is thinking that Townshed is a great guitarists thats ok, I thought he was a horrible lead player who was lucky that he did all his best work in a studio because live he simply was not very good. Same for the drummer and in my opinion the bass player held it together and was a decent enough talent to get them by live.
Playing power chords and performing over the top free form is a talent in it self. I'm not sure where the performance ends and the music begins!! Wrecking gear at the end of the show impressed some folks (again drugged out kids) for me after seeing them live I wished they did it at the beginning of the night. Free form jamming needs to be left to the pros with talent not some kids that are very "limited" in what they know.
To suggest that Kieth Moon is a great drummer "All Time"!! Wow thats really abusing the word Great! A great Showman at that time?? Yes! A talented musician?? In a studio were the jammin was limited, OK! Live?? Not for me, no concept of beat, no rythmic qualities, no sense of timing, how many single rolled patterns can you take??? Horrible cymbal work, just thrashing and crashing, playing on the edge of the cynbals to produce more noise (fill?) Enough, my rant is over!! Guess you had to be there, and straight too hahahaha! ................................................................................Doc.

I would love to hear a version of you playing the drums on all of the songs on The Who Live at Leeds with all of the original members (Townshend, Entwistle and Daltrey) and see how your version matches up to the original. It would be laughable, your version being immediately thrown away after we all had a good laugh.
 
All these feelings, pro and con, about Moon came rushing into my head recently while reading Pete Townsend's recently published memoir, Who I Am.

Pete makes it very clear that although he considered Moon to be the drummer for The Who the minute he first heard him, by the end of Moon's life Pete just wished he'd go away, both as a person and a musician. When he writes of Moon's death he never expresses any sorrow or, for that matter, any feeling at all on the subject, and he goes on to say that he was much more comfortable playing with the band without Moon's drumming "crowding" him.

All in all, I found his attitude appalling.

If anyone's interested, I've posted a very short review of Townsend's book on my website, here: http://tvwriter.net/?p=7804

And, yeah, it's a very negative one too. Sorry.
 
Moon was a huge part of a theatrical band that used visuals and emotions to enlist their fans. Moon was a favorite of fans who appriciated the "show" first then the playing ability. I saw him 2 or 3 times and other than having tons of energy and being a total maniac I heard nothing that any drug induced half way talented drummer couldn't come up with. Sorry but there was NO groove every established, he blew every ending and listened to the guitarist (out of tune) instead of the bassists and there was obviously something going on between the bass player and him. They never hooked up once they never "looked" at each other once that I can recall. Free styling belongs in a garage but when you come along in the 60s with the most impressional generation that was loaded on drugs for concerts anything could happen. If someone is thinking that Townshed is a great guitarists thats ok, I thought he was a horrible lead player who was lucky that he did all his best work in a studio because live he simply was not very good. Same for the drummer and in my opinion the bass player held it together and was a decent enough talent to get them by live.
Playing power chords and performing over the top free form is a talent in it self. I'm not sure where the performance ends and the music begins!! Wrecking gear at the end of the show impressed some folks (again drugged out kids) for me after seeing them live I wished they did it at the beginning of the night. Free form jamming needs to be left to the pros with talent not some kids that are very "limited" in what they know.
To suggest that Kieth Moon is a great drummer "All Time"!! Wow thats really abusing the word Great! A great Showman at that time?? Yes! A talented musician?? In a studio were the jammin was limited, OK! Live?? Not for me, no concept of beat, no rythmic qualities, no sense of timing, how many single rolled patterns can you take??? Horrible cymbal work, just thrashing and crashing, playing on the edge of the cynbals to produce more noise (fill?) Enough, my rant is over!! Guess you had to be there, and straight too hahahaha! ................................................................................Doc.

Well you are obviously not a Who fan, so it's clear why you cut down the band members and didn't think much of their performances. Not sure why you needed to see them 2 or 3 times, other than to make sure you really didn't like them.
The Who aren't a groove type of band, they are a chaotic messy rock and roll band. You should have gone to Earth Wind And Fire concerts if you needed to groove so bad in the 70's.
There is plenty of video out there to put all of your comments to shame.
You just don't get what the band was all about.
 
I'm with Sam here. One of the things I learned a long time ago is that you can't judge any kind of art, be it music, film, TV, painting, etc., by what you would have liked it to be. You have to understand what it's trying to accomplish and then see if, in your estimation, it succeeded.

The Who succeeded brilliantly.

So did Keith Moon.

Gotta admit, though, that what drives me crazy in this discussion is the concept that Moon wasn't a great drummer because he always improvised and couldn't/wouldn't repeat his drum parts. In the '50s, '60s, '70s, and even in most of the '80s, constantly experimenting with your sound and approach wasn't a negative but to many people a sign of genius. Did Monk play his stuff the same way every time? Diz? Brubeck? Trane? They - and their drummers - were all about going out on a limb and seeing if they could keep it from breaking. It was the "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" approach.

I remember the last tour I went out on in the early '90s, subbing for the usual drummer. I was as ready for the gig as I ever was for any gig - that is to say I had my chops, my faith in myself, and, yeah, I'd listened to the records a few times. Then I learned that I was expected to play a real drum part, beat for beat, for each song, exactly as each had been recorded. I was flabbergasted. I tried my best and only occasionally succeeded. No one ever gave me any crap about it, but I found the experience of merely duplicating instead of creating so unfulfilling that I didn't play in public again for 20 years. (And now it's to play mostly old blues or free form jazz, both of which allow me to relax and improvise and stretch.)

Moon's originality, the wildness that so many people here seem to condemn, IS what made him, yes, an all-time great.
 
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if you are looking for a tight precise rock band why in the world would you listen to or go see the Who?

Keith was an unconventional drummer and a one man orchestra playing off the vocal and the guitar

to me every single thing he played with the Who was pure brilliance

long live Keith .....a true master who had absolutely no intention on being one
 
I agree with Sam , Hipshot and Gvdadrum and all who said positive things....

There has not been any drummer ever ever never ever like Keith, since his death. Everyone claims they all play like Moon but all plays by the "F....g" rules (if there are any) and technically which does not stand out any more, with theatrical chops and face expressions etc. etc........

my 4.5 cents
 
Sorry if that seems like a dumb question, but I'm intrigued by Keith Moon's style of drumming. Someone remarked recently when I was playing particularly 'over the top' that I played like him... But I wasn't intending trashing my kit, so not too sure what they meant unless it was that I was being very flamboyant with my arm movements.

In many films and videos his arms seem to be flailing about (sometimes it's hard to tell how he's playing), and he looks as if he's all over the place rhythmically, however the drum recordings seem quite tight. Did he play flamboyantly and differently on stage than when recording? Were his beats tight live?

It looks like he was a self-taught drummer from the way he plays, is that right or did he have 'formal' training or lessons. Was he just living up to his 'crazy man' image when he played and wanting to be the centre of attention, which I believe he always wanted to be?

I would appreciate any comments from those that have saw him play, rather than being pointed to youtube videos, most of which I've watched.
 
To me, Moons drumming is typified by:
- rare use of hihats
- not the principal time keeper of the band ....at all (that was Pete)
- constant fills and frequent crash riding
- never play the same lick twice, or at least identical
- true reckless abandon

again, studio recordings are often many takes and so were more tame versions of what the song required for drumming. I'm sure that was the case in the Who, who had a fairly exacting leader in the studio (Townsend).

I think some of his best drumming parts show up on many numbers in the Odds and Sods collection and Quadrophenia
 
I never saw Keith play ...but have studied him extensively .... (extensively may actually be an understatement) .....and have interviewed family members, band mates, and friends of his for a 3 year long project I constructed in college that never truly was finished completely ....nor was college actually :)

and what I came up with is that Keith was not a drummer at all....he was a true force of nature that just happened to have a drum kit in front of him on occasion.....a comet.....one never meant to age and become old

outside of the Who he did not care to even see a drum kit ....much more concerned with fame and running with the whos who crowd, raising hell and buying pointless items like hover crafts and exotic cars that he could not drive

I believe the accidental killing of his friend Neil Boland changed Keith forever and escalated the already evident downward spiral

he had a few instructors as a child but did not care much for lessons ....and once attempted a lesson with Philly Joe Jones ....which is a quite funny story for another day

Pete describes Keith as a one man orchestra ....and if you watch videos and listen you can hear how he does approach some situations as a timpani player would with impeccable dynamics ...
he also followed the vocal and the guitar more than the Ox pretty much always

Keith almost never played a tune the same way twice ....and I may feel safe even saying he never did.....

as you probably know he gave up on having a hi hat pretty early in his career but it was suggested by Glynn Johns while trying to harness some of Keiths insanity for some of Petes tunes that required synth and sequencers when producing some records that he return to the hi hat....which he did briefly

Glyn did manage to get some solid takes out of Keith ...but to me they don't sound very Moon like and are definitely not how he would have expressed himself

for someone with very poor technique Keith had amazingly fast hands.

live he was pretty much off the hook and to him it was the Keith Moon show not the Who.....

Keith would often latch on to certain people he met and take them on a 6 month to a year journey that they would never forget.

in a recent Eagles documentary Joe Walsh says.....one of the worst things that has ever happened to me in my life was Keith Moon taking a liking to me..

pretty funny

I love anything and everything Keith and am pretty much an encyclopedia of Moon.
I am just fascinated by it all and spent years studying his life and tracking down everyone I could who knew him to talk to them
I got very much enjoyment out of every minute of it and am very glad I did it

I plan to write a book one day .....just way too busy right now

a personal favorite representation of his playing is Live At Leeds....and their performance at the Rolling Stones Rock n Roll Circus TV program which the Stones never allowed to be released until the 90s because the Who blew them out of the water
 
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I always felt that Keith's full body and the drum set was one entity....even given his usual technique. very natural and raw. He was a "One of a kind"! He left us with some very good drumming...Denis
 
Just to add to Anthony's spot on post:

Keith had amazing pair of wrists. He didn't use fingers, he had no technique, but some how his wrists were always fluid, and he could pull things off with just wrists that most trained drummers would use a combination of fingers and wrists to do.

Tight is hardly a word I'd use with Keith, but oddly, he was one of the first (if not THE first) guy to play to a click track and sequencer on stage, and he had no issues staying in time with the sequencer.

One under-rated aspect of Keith is his use of dynamics. My personal story is while Neil Peart had gotten my interested in drums, it was listening to how Keith controlled the dynamics in the The Who on Live at Leeds that made me commit my life to drums. Keith could actually play quietly, and build tension, and build, and play very intensely quietly and then just explode like an atomic bomb behind the kit. Even though Keith is more known for always being over the top and out of control, on stage, he had his own internal volume knob.
 
Mostly he played the way he did because of his extensive use of alcohol and drugs. It is pretty well known that Keith had trouble keeping up when he tried to do it clean and sober.
 
I saw a video once where moon broke a right bass drum head. He had the stage hands change the right head while he continued to play. It appeared that Moon was playing the left bass drum like a hi-hat playing eight notes. I heard that Moon would lead with his left foot think this is what they meant.. As others have mentioned he did not use a lot of hi-hat.

When I look at the videos of that premier kit that he played, the over-head toms appear to be the same size. When I listen to Moon, I can not hear the toms being tuned to differently. I hear different floor toms but not different overhead toms.

It is hard for me to hear any buzz, double stroke, or triple stroke rolls from Moon. He seems to be playing a lot of rhythmic fills without the use of the cymbals.

Because Moon did not play the hi-hat, he used his ride a lot, but he also used a lot of the crash cymbal as a ride. He crashed the cymbals more often than other drummers. Drummers would open and close their hi-hat slightly to add color, but since Moon was riding more often, he needed to accent and add color so he would use the crash cymbals to add color and phrasing.
 
Moonie was a classic crazy garage drummer. His approach was typical 70s noob - seemingly oblivious to the link between drummer and bassist and playing along with the lead lines of the song (which is what laypersons listen to) and keen to show off at every opportunity.

There have been many like him (until taught that it's not the proper role to play drums in a group), just that Keith did it so much better through sheer natural talent and the good fortune of finding the right band for him. His hands and mental processes were very fast.
 
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