Tuning GRRR dong my "head" in, is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

cobamnator said:
I didn't read 100% of the comments so forgive me if I am re-hashing.

I am also at a dilemma with the "Drumdial". I will tune my toms / drums and EVERY lug will sound the same, so it is completely in tune with itself, does NOT have funky overtones, and sounds great. Then I will slap the Drumdial on there and according to it, most of the Lugs are "Off", sometimes by alot.

Anyone else have this problem?
Click to expand...
(sorry for shortening your post above)

I too had this same problem with the DD!

I had been away from drumming for 2 decades and practically started all over. I was such a newb that I could not tell what each drum should sound like. Then one day, I had to change all batters...
The DD just seemed like a cure-all, instant fix to tuning. Damn things aren't cheap either.
Anyways, I'm reading thier charts - tightening and loosening to the exact tension. After a few weeks I finally realized my fricken DW set was out of tune (embarrased here).

In desperation I came across hero - Bob Gatzen. Tuning to notes (his snare video) just made so much sense to me since I couldn't yet tune by ear. Just pick your target note, hum and tune. All my drums are tuned now to specific notes (batter + resos). The one downside to tuning by notes is having a device available for your reference note.

Drumdial took 3 weeks to sell on Craigslist.
 
BigDinSD said:
(sorry for shortening your post above)

I too had this same problem with the DD!

I had been away from drumming for 2 decades and practically started all over. I was such a newb that I could not tell what each drum should sound like. Then one day, I had to change all batters...
The DD just seemed like a cure-all, instant fix to tuning. Damn things aren't cheap either.
Anyways, I'm reading thier charts - tightening and loosening to the exact tension. After a few weeks I finally realized my fricken DW set was out of tune (embarrased here).

In desperation I came across hero - Bob Gatzen. Tuning to notes (his snare video) just made so much sense to me since I couldn't yet tune by ear. Just pick your target note, hum and tune. All my drums are tuned now to specific notes (batter + resos). The one downside to tuning by notes is having a device available for your reference note.

Drumdial took 3 weeks to sell on Craigslist.
Click to expand...

Glad I'm not alone!

Because I would tune these drums VERY evenly, and they sounded wonderful, and just for kicks I would throw the DD on there and it would read something off the wall.

Perhaps it is a faulty D.D.?
 
cobamnator said:
Glad I'm not alone!

Because I would tune these drums VERY evenly, and they sounded wonderful, and just for kicks I would throw the DD on there and it would read something off the wall.

Perhaps it is a faulty D.D.?
Click to expand...

I dunno - check the calibration on a glass table, it's easy to do. I just think it is the concept of assuming that the same tension at one lug should produce the same TONE on all other lugs. There are probably more dynamics and factors besides tension that produce the tone. I too have dialed the tension after getting a nicely tuned head and - WAY OFF on some lugs!
 
The drum dial is a measuring instrument. It doesn't lie. It is hard to get all your lugs to the same setting on the drum dial and to also have all the harmonic notes match at each lug. The drum dial just illustrates how hard it is to tune a drum.

Typical drum dial scenario: Your drum is on the floor. You got all the DD tensions to read the same at all lugs. So now you're ear tuning, tapping the head with a stick an inch from the lugs, with one of your fingers resting on the center of the head, listening to the harmonic note. Yet the harmonic note at lug A is too low and it's neighbor, lug B, is too high......There's a reason for this....

The most common mistake people make using the DD IMO is that they tension going around the perimeter of the drum. I did that too for quite a while before I realized that's not the best way to use it. I eventually got way better results when I started tensioning across the drum.

If the opposite of lug A, is lug Z, I'm talking about the line spanning lug A and lug Z. An 8 lug drum will have 4 of these "planes". They all have to be the same tension, not an easy task especially with only one drum key at a time. You tune for perfectly even DD tensions between lug A and Z. (using 2 keys for sure) After they match, rotate the drum 90 degrees, (X and Y axis) and get those 2 lugs at the same tension as A and Z. Repeat until done. You'll probably have to revisit lug A and Z and all the rest of the lugs at least once or twice to get all the individual tensions reading the same. Then when you ear tune, all the lugs just sing baby. Now that head is truly in tune with itself, no uneven tensions on any of the planes.

The thing is, you really need to use 2 keys to get the best shot at evenness. A key on lug A and a key on lug Z. You can feel for evenness better. If I could have a key on every lug, I would.

Then continue tuning by repeating the process on the other drum head.

Then ensure batter head tuning doesn't clash with reso head tuning by comparing harmonics. Adjust if necessary.

It's a 3 step process really, tune the batter, tune the reso, then adjust them to each other for maximum tone.

Then you repeat this 3 step process with all the other toms.

Then you have to make sure the intervals between all the toms are pleasing. Adjust if necessary.

Nothing to it lol.

It's really not practical for the gigging drummer. I use the DD when I change heads at home, and for recording.

I think if the DD people would clue their customers in, as to how to use their product better, not as many people would sell them. But you have to be really anal to get a perfectly tuned, and perfectly tensioned, 2 headed drum.
 
larryace said:
The drum dial is a measuring instrument. It doesn't lie. It is hard to get all your lugs to the same setting on the drum dial and to also have all the harmonic notes match at each lug. The drum dial just illustrates how hard it is to tune a drum.

Typical drum dial scenario: Your drum is on the floor. You got all the DD tensions to read the same at all lugs. So now you're ear tuning, tapping the head with a stick an inch from the lugs, with one of your fingers resting on the center of the head, listening to the harmonic note. Yet the harmonic note at lug A is too low and it's neighbor, lug B, is too high......There's a reason for this....

The most common mistake people make using the DD IMO is that they tension going around the perimeter of the drum. I did that too for quite a while before I realized that's not the best way to use it. I eventually got way better results when I started tensioning across the drum.

If the opposite of lug A, is lug Z, I'm talking about the line spanning lug A and lug Z. An 8 lug drum will have 4 of these "planes". They all have to be the same tension, not an easy task especially with only one drum key at a time. You tune for perfectly even DD tensions between lug A and Z. (using 2 keys for sure) After they match, rotate the drum 90 degrees, (X and Y axis) and get those 2 lugs at the same tension as A and Z. Repeat until done. You'll probably have to revisit lug A and Z and all the rest of the lugs at least once or twice to get all the individual tensions reading the same. Then when you ear tune, all the lugs just sing baby. Now that head is truly in tune with itself, no uneven tensions on any of the planes.

The thing is, you really need to use 2 keys to get the best shot at evenness. A key on lug A and a key on lug Z. You can feel for evenness better. If I could have a key on every lug, I would.

Then continue tuning by repeating the process on the other drum head.

Then ensure batter head tuning doesn't clash with reso head tuning by comparing harmonics. Adjust if necessary.

It's a 3 step process really, tune the batter, tune the reso, then adjust them to each other for maximum tone.

Then you repeat this 3 step process with all the other toms.

Then you have to make sure the intervals between all the toms are pleasing. Adjust if necessary.

Nothing to it lol.

It's really not practical for the gigging drummer. I use the DD when I change heads at home, and for recording.

I think if the DD people would clue their customers in, as to how to use their product better, not as many people would sell them. But you have to be really anal to get a perfectly tuned, and perfectly tensioned, 2 headed drum.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, if it's that hard to use the D.D., Im just going to tune by ear.

You say...

"it is hard to get all your lugs to the same setting on the drum dial and to also have all the harmonic notes match at each lug. The drum dial just illustrates how hard it is to tune a drum."

Then why buy the thing in the first place? This is my point exactly. If the harmonic note, and tension are two different things (which I am not doubting), the D.D. is pretty redundant at best.

Why use it to even out the tension on all lugs, THEN tune it? When your going to change the tension anyway.

Anyways, maybe there is a secret to it. Who knows...
 
You nailed the conundrum of the drum dial. Tuning by ear is way faster.

The DD is however perfect for the anal retentive. You can have a kicking tom sound for sure and not have the DD tensions match. Your ear is king.
It does appeal to my scientific nature, the DD... it is a precision instrument, but it's not practical. It did expand my understanding of the forces at work on my drumhead though. I couldn't rest until I figured out why I was getting the wacky readings. But tune by ear. Use the harmonics and get them to all match.
 
So following all the great feedback to my tuning question I picked up a Tom Pack of Evans G2 coated heads as the next step in my tuning education.

So far I have just installed one head, on my 12" tom, and have tightened it up, but not started the tuning process. However, it is already apparent that this is a very different head to the Attack single ply it is replacing, and I hope to be able to spend some real quality time getting to grips with the tuning of this head, and subsequently the other two tom heads.

I'm not out of the woods yet, but I do now realise that just like the old "garbage in, garbage out " adage, it helps to have some good raw material to work with.

Thanks again to all those who have taken time to reply, just knowing that others have also experienced a steep learning curve when tuning has been a confidence booster.

Thank you all
 
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