Jon "Bermuda" Schwartz here!

I don't like this reference. Your Virgil reference is much better. Did Bonham have superb taste or simply a lack of imagination because of a lack of technical chops - or a lack of influence from other players? If he had the blistering speed of today's drummers, might he have used it? We simply don't know.

another way would be to look at john bonham. he had lots of skill but nothing like the drummers of today in terms of chops but john had taste. his choices were superb and that's what makes him a legend.

Great taste in leaving his chops at home but you're forgetting he's got a great mind coming up with a drum part. 99.9% of all drummers, when hearing a tune that's in 5/8 would NEVER think of playing the right hand in 4/4. Forget about even making it sound like it belongs - which Vinnie does perfectly.

what makes vinnie so cool is that he has loads of skills (which can be learned by the diligent drummer) and he has a great taste in choosing when to use which one or most importantly when not to use them (which cannot be exactly emulated by anyone but vinnie).
j
 
For a few reasons, you're absolutely right. First, Al wouldn't pay Vinnie's rate. Second, if the song was sequenced... well, let's just say that Vinnie and sampling/sequencing don't go together. Third, Vinnie wouldn't take the time to work out the parts note-for-note, and sound-for-sound, not without being paid a lot extra (see first reason.) Fourth, although it would be a feather in Al's and my cap - imagine me saying that it took Vinnie to replace me?! - I don't think there's an appeal to Al's fans one way or another, in the same way that many drummers will seek out the albums that Vinnie plays on, just because it's Vinnie.

Not to be immodest, but I know of no other drummer who does what I do with Al. It will be very interesting to see who can step in if I ever leave. It's truly a one-of-a-kind gig.

Bermuda

Why does Vinnie have a problem with being sampled/sequenced? I've heard that before and am asking out of pure interest. I heard that Vinnie once said that he sometimes choses not to play a certain thing he thinks is cool, because he is afraid that someone might sample it. Strange. Any thoughts/insights about that?

If you'd quit with Al, I'd be happy to give that gig a shot :). I love stuff that requires many different drumming-skills. Next week I'll be playing a gig that will require me to play jazz, hiphop, reggae, metal, techno, schlager and a few other things all in one Show. I am really looking forward to that night. I hate being reduced to one particular style..... that is just boring. I am totally not saying I could play that gig with Al, but I'd like to try. I'm absolutely sure that thousands of guys would like to try that though so my wish is probably no surprise. Does Al pay well, lol??

;)
 
I agree. Now that Zappa is no longer alive, I can't think of anyone having to play the variety of styles that you are required to play.

As for your replacement, I actually think there are a lot of chameleons out there. Those of us that earned our livings doing GB work could cut it, no?

So, I don't know if you've ever addressed it, but how DID you get the gig?

Not to be immodest, but I know of no other drummer who does what I do with Al. It will be very interesting to see who can step in if I ever leave. It's truly a one-of-a-kind gig.

Bermuda
 
If you'd quit with Al, I'd be happy to give that gig a shot :). I love stuff that requires many different drumming-skills.

I've had a couple of brief conversations with Jon, and he's not only talking about the different drumming styles that the Al shows require. Without going into too much detail Jon practically runs the whole live show from behind the kit (sorry if I'm overstating the case Jon). There is no possible way that Jon could be replaced with another drummer.
 
So, I don't know if you've ever addressed it, but how DID you get the gig?
Al Yankovic was in the studio of the Dr. Demento radio show to perform a couple of his songs live. At that point he was just a kid with an accordion and some crazy songs that he had written, and he was getting huge response from the tapes that he had sent in to the Doctor's show. Jon just happened to be in the building at the time and Al asked him if he would accompany him by beating a rhythm on the accordion case!

I won a prize at one of Jon's clinics for knowing the exact date of that first "gig." I used to listen to the Dr. Demento show every week when I was a kid and I actually heard the show as it was being broadcast. All these years later and I can honestly say that I've been a fan of Al and Jon from day one.

It might take two people...
That was exactly my point, thanks.
 
Maybe Bermuda could tell us what else he's doing besides drumming. Is he kicking off sequencers? Is he running sound for the band? What is it that makes him indispensable?

That was exactly my point, thanks.
 
Why does Vinnie have a problem with being sampled/sequenced?

I meant that he apparently abhors electronics. That means that he won't (or can't) do what a lot of producers/artists require. Not that he doesn't keep sufficiently busy anyway!

If you'd quit with Al, I'd be happy to give that gig a shot :). I love stuff that requires many different drumming-skills.

First and foremost, my chair is not available. Second (and co-foremost) the gig is far more than just playing the parts I play on the kit. There's a mess of cues, sequences, tracks, and hairpin turns that make each night's show. We're not doing a concert perfromance, we're doing a show. Do you sing? Doesn't matter, Al will make you sing in addition to all the other acrobatics that occur in the show. Oh yeah, hope you like doing shtick, too.

Between tours, the pre-production and demo-process involved in each album would make most drummers change professions. Every time I go into detail about working out parts & sounds, I'm amazed that I've gotten this far without bailing, or going crazy. Well, I still go crazy, I guess I'm just used to it by now.

Bermuda
 
I agree. Now that Zappa is no longer alive, I can't think of anyone having to play the variety of styles that you are required to play.

Certainly not in one night or on one album, no.

As for your replacement, I actually think there are a lot of chameleons out there. Those of us that earned our livings doing GB work could cut it, no?

Don't know what GB is, and there are a lot of chameleons. But as I pointed out in the post above, my gig is much more than just playing drums. There are tons of players who can drum circles around me, but who could still not do my gig.

So, I don't know if you've ever addressed it, but how DID you get the gig?

Geting the gig was easy and a chance meeting. (see www.bermudaschwartz.com/bio.htm for more details) and happened at a time when drumming skills were all I needed.

As for how I've kept the gig, it's by always rising to the occasion. Al throws all of us some new curves on each album and tour, and the only way to keep the gig is to learn and grow into the parts/techniques. So, when we did our first all-sequenced song in 1985, I bought a drum machine. When I got tired of keyboard players handling drum sounds on some of the sequenced songs, I bought a sampler. When we did a Zappa homage on 2003's "Poodle Hat", I studied every lick that Ralph Humphrey, Chester Thompson, Chad Wackerman and Terry Bozzio played, and woodshedded until they felt natural. And album after album, I've proven that I can acheive the parts - and sounds - required of me. Even when a track was originally sequenced and there was no drummer per se, I still have to take on the task.

So, basically, never saying 'no' (that is, never being afraid to say 'yes') has ensured my career with him. As I say in my bio: "Al's made me play parts I didn't know how to play."

Bermuda
 
Maybe Bermuda could tell us what else he's doing besides drumming. Is he kicking off sequencers? Is he running sound for the band? What is it that makes him indispensable?

Regarding the scope of my situation with Al, it involves creating sequences (not just drum parts, mind you,) cueing songs in concert (that doesn't just mean a countoff,) cueing countoffs from video, creating sounds and sound effects...

But most importantly, and something I haven't heard any other drummers do: duplicating sounds - both as samples and acoustically, and in particular, duplicating parts - both sequences and live - note for note. And I mean, NOTE FOR NOTE! I think I once said that I copy parts with at least 99% accuracy. But when I figured out that it meant as much as one wrong note every 8 bars, and my track record is far better than that, I'd have to say my accuracy level is probably at least 99.9%. Yeah, I've missed a few notes in 12 albums. literally... just a few.

That's a large part of what makes me indispensible. And I have some photos. (hey, why do you think Joey Kramer gets to stay in Aerosmith??!!)

Could another drummer play what I play? Yeah, not much hard stuff there. But running the show, creating the sounds and sequences, dressing like a woman for a photo shoot (what, did I forget to mentioin that?) and much more is not something that many drummers can or will do.

Bermuda
 
Everyone is replaceable. It might take two people, or time, but everyone is replaceable.

Al's not.

But, I know what you're saying. It would be extremely difficult to replace me and everything I do, but no, not absolutely impossible. It might indeed take two people, and maybe additional talent when in the studio. I'm sure me not being around isn't something that Al looks forward to, and certainly not something I foresee. And there's still no guarantee that, in the case of sounds and parts, they could do what I do, the way I do it (meaning, to Al's complete satisfaction.)

Bermuda
 
Gday Bermuda.

Been a long time. I remember 'chatting' to you in the #rmmp days!

Glad to see all is well with you.
 
And the conversation comes full circle ("the way I do it")!

Thanks for the insight into your job requirements. And I knew you must have had pictures... ;)

And there's still no guarantee that, in the case of sounds and parts, they could do what I do, the way I do it (meaning, to Al's complete satisfaction.)

Bermuda
 
And the conversation comes full circle ("the way I do it")!

Specifically, I mean my approach to the parts, not necessarily my execution of them.

Playing parts is fairly easy. I think that a lot of drummers can play what I play.

Backwards engineering a track and dissecting an existing part, assembling the correct cymbal and drum sounds, and then playing those parts for an artist/producer who is right up there with Zappa, McCartney, and Becker & Fagan for being meticulous... that's a different matter. It's the approach to executing the parts that accounts for my longevity in this project; one has to be just as meticulous as Al.

Same goes for songs that are sequenced, except that the sounds are often layered and otherwise filtered... sometimes they're not drums at all. Yet, you still have to duplicate them. Usually, such parts weren't even originally programmed by a drummer, so it can be especially confounding when trying to play the parts live (and no percussionist to help out, the drummer generates ALL percussion noises either physically, or by programming them.) That aspect of the gig would send most drummers running.

Here's a fun test for those who have a little time and think they're meticulous enough for Al. Listen to the U2 song "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me" (which we parodied in 1996, and constructed completely from scratch.) It doesn't matter whether you like the song or are even familiar with it. I am asked to reproduce a lot of songs that I have never heard of, or might not normally listen to, or don't necessarily like... but that's part of doing the gig.

So, question: How many snare sounds are there in that song? And no guessing - you have to tell me where each sound is used.

Bermuda
 
So, question: How many snare sounds are there in that song? And no guessing - you have to tell me where each sound is used.

Damn you man, I've just spent about $1.50 downloading a U2 song, and I £$%&£$ hate U2!! But anyway...

I hear 2 in the intro fill, separate from the tom; 1 more in the next section; 1 more in the fill leading into the verse; 1 more in the verse; the snare leading into the chorus is the same as the one leading into the verse; 1 more which falls on beat 2 of the chorus (the snare on the 'and' of 2 during the chorus is I think the same one from fills before the verse and chorus); then there's another, filtered, snare sound in the third verse; and possibly a final 1 on the 'e' of 3 in the outro, but it's pretty hard to hear beneath the strings.

So my guess comes to...6, maybe 7?
 
I'm curious on why you're asking or why Womble is even counting the number of snare sounds. Are you saying that Al has become meticulous on trying to accurately duplicate the sound/style of the tunes he is parodying?

Is this a new development or is it strictly something he tries to acheive on actual song parodies? I ask because on the "Hooked on Polkas" tune from many years ago, you are nothing close to copying Alan White's "Owner" fill. But on another track you guys cover the Huey Lewis tune and the guitar (Rick Derringer?) is pretty accurate.

Damn you man, I've just spent about $1.50 downloading a U2 song, and I £$%&£$ hate U2!! But anyway...

I hear 2 in the intro fill, separate from the tom; 1 more in the next section; 1 more in the fill leading into the verse; 1 more in the verse; the snare leading into the chorus is the same as the one leading into the verse; 1 more which falls on beat 2 of the chorus (the snare on the 'and' of 2 during the chorus is I think the same one from fills before the verse and chorus); then there's another, filtered, snare sound in the third verse; and possibly a final 1 on the 'e' of 3 in the outro, but it's pretty hard to hear beneath the strings.

So my guess comes to...6, maybe 7?
 
I'm curious on why you're asking or why Womble is even counting the number of snare sounds. Are you saying that Al has become meticulous on trying to accurately duplicate the sound/style of the tunes he is parodying?

Is this a new development or is it strictly something he tries to acheive on actual song parodies? I ask because on the "Hooked on Polkas" tune from many years ago, you are nothing close to copying Alan White's "Owner" fill. But on another track you guys cover the Huey Lewis tune and the guitar (Rick Derringer?) is pretty accurate.


Let me point something out - Hooked On Polkas was recorded almost 22 years ago.

Now, let me ask you a question, how were your drumming skills 22 years ago? Did you get better since then? Well guess what - so did we. Al's demand for perfection has simlarly grown, and we've grown along with it.

Sure, if you wanna go back 20+ years, it's easy to say that there are parodies which don't sound nearly-exact to the original. As time went on, our skills at the task vastly improved. Listen to something from the last album or two or three or four... or five... or six... and then tell me truthfully that we're "nothing close" to the original parts. As for the polka medlies, they're accordian-based re-arrangements of excerpts of hit songs, and there is seldom an intention to duplicate parts and sounds from the originals. Should I have played the Alan White lick better? Yeah, I suppose if the polka tempo wasn't quite a bit faster than the Yes track, and if (then-producer) Rick was as meticulous as Al, I would have had a better chance at getting it exactly right.

BTW, the reason I proposed that people listen for the snares, is because of the perception some have that my shoes are easily filled. Those who are counting are trying to prove a point. And so am I.

Bermuda

PS: Rick did not play the guitar on I Want A New Duck, Jim West did.
 
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Hey Bermuda,

I really don't think anyone's trying to have a go at your abilites. Rick wasn't launching a genuine bid for your gig, he just said he thought it would be a fun one! And X22 wasn't suggesting that 22 years ago you were unable to copy parts exactly, I think he was wondering why you (or Al) now feel you have to. Correct me if I'm wrong, X22.

It seems like I've misunderstood your intentions - I honestly wasn't counting the snare sounds to prove a point, I was counting the snare sounds because you asked us to. Now I'm genuinely intrigued: how many are there?
 
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